eltejano1
Woodville, Texas
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Weekender wrote:Life is not a rehersal, this is your one shot!
You may just be right about that. It would be very easy for me to embrace your philosophy, hitch up the trailer and hit the road. And I may well regret not having done so. When we're all stting to together in the poor house shooting the bull, you will have the last laugh!![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
Jack
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H_1
Flat Rock, Indiana, USA
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Joined: 11/30/2004
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but we've allowed ourselves the luxuries of bad planning, bad zoning, and a sense of entitlement to $1 or $2 fuel.
Schools within walking/biking distance of neighborhoods, public transit for those who can't afford to/do not choose to drive, neighborhoods with access to markets and services that don't require an excursion onto a 4 lane road - these aren't luxuries, these are staples - everywhere else on the planet. Not having them is a luxury.
We've allowed ourselves the luxury of thinking we're too good for the bus, that we "have" to drive 1 mile to get a gallon of milk or loaf of bread, or (per earlier example) 30 miles for some basil. Yeah, I still do that sometimes too, but that doesn't mean it isn't extravagant in its way.
The F-250 towing a blue-boy, that image always cracks me up. If that isn't a luxury, I'd be interested to know what is.
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The Weekenders
Harvey, North Dakota
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eltejano1 wrote:Weekender wrote:Life is not a rehersal, this is your one shot!
You may just be right about that. It would be very easy for me to embrace your philosophy, hitch up the trailer and hit the road. And I may well regret not having done so. When we're all stting to together in the poor house shooting the bull, you will have the last laugh!
Jack
You can embrace doom and gloom and wish for what might be but I will be having fun with DW and the fiver. In fact while you were posting the "sky is falling" all this weekend, we met some great new friends at our RV.Net Dakota Rally. The food, fun and company of others and getting away was all worth it. We don't get into knee-jerk reactions.
* This post was
edited 05/25/08 02:42pm by The Weekenders *
Every meal is a feast, everyday is a parade and every paycheck is a fortune!
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eltejano1
Woodville, Texas
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Frank, our domestic resources are limited. We have a few deposits left but they would only buy us a few years if we pumped them bone dry. Then what would we use for plastics, fabrics, coatings and chemicals? Moreover, they are mostly in difficult places, like deep water offshore, or in environmentally sensitive areas that would be extremely difficult to exploit because any authorizing legislation would be held-up in court for years if not decades. It won't help to rail against the environmentalists - they comprise a significant segment of the electorate. They are a political fact of life - well-educated, affluent and politically powerful beyond their actual numbers. We would have to reach a compromise with them in order to drill in some of these areas, and they have taken a stand - "ANWAR over our dead bodies". I can't really blame them. There is very little pristine wilderness left.
Sorry, Frank, but trying to drill our way out of this mess is not the answer. There doesn't seem to be any solution except rapid development and deployment of alternatives. My idea of conserving our way out of it has been effectively shot down in this discussion too - so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.
Instead of getting into a protracted political war with Greenpeace and the WWF, or parking our cars and walking to work, we may be better served by putting our collective nose to the grindstone on the technology front. This discussion has changed my mind - from conservation to alternatives.
Jack
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topflite51
In The Desert of Nevada
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eltejano1 wrote:Frank, our domestic resources are limited.
It is conservatively estimated the oil that is recoverable from the shale in WY, CO and UT (The Green River Formation) is over 3 times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia. Add to that ANWAR, east and west coasts of the US, farther out in the gulf of Mexico. The resources are not so much limited, as they are restricted by Congress.
Utilizing these resources would be a major part of an energy policy that would be beneficial to America. Add to it solar, wind, thermal, coal and nuclear and in 10 to 15 years we could be truly energy independent.
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The Weekenders
Harvey, North Dakota
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topflite51 wrote:eltejano1 wrote:Frank, our domestic resources are limited.
It is conservatively estimated the oil that is recoverable from the shale in WY, CO and UT (The Green River Formation) is over 3 times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia. Add to that ANWAR, east and west coasts of the US, farther out in the gulf of Mexico. The resources are not so much limited, as they are restricted by Congress.
Utilizing these resources would be a major part of an energy policy that would be beneficial to America. Add to it solar, wind, thermal, coal and nuclear and in 10 to 15 years we could be truly energy independent.
Don't forget the Bakken Formation in North Dakota, huge reserves there as well. Bad news though for the naysayers who seem to hope for gloom and doom, right Jack?. JMO
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sirdrakejr
Las Vegas, Nevada
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Has anyone also noticed that with all the quakes and hurricanes that we have had in the US and in the Gulf, NOT ONE DRILLING RIG LEAKED!! No environmental damage occurred any where. I do not believe the environmentalists make up a majority of citizens. I DO believe they are buying the right congress people though.
Frank
2011 Palomino Maverick 1000SLLB on a 2004 Dodge Quadcab CTD Ram3500 SRW long bed equipped with Timbren springs, Stable Load bump stops, Rickson 19.5" wheels/"G" range tires and a Helwig "Big Wig" rear anti sway bar.
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eltejano1
Woodville, Texas
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Quote:
It is conservatively estimated the oil that is recoverable from the shale in WY, CO and UT (The Green River Formation) is over 3 times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia. Add to that ANWAR, east and west coasts of the US, farther out in the gulf of Mexico. The resources are not so much limited, as they are restricted by Congress.
According to the news stories I have read, I am under the impression that those shale deposits require a humongous amount of energy - I guess they "cook" it - to extract a usable fuel - and the same with getting diesel from coal. ?? I have read that it's not viable because it takes as much energy to make it as you get out of it - but I'm not well-informed on it.
It's such an emotionally and politically charged issue that it's hard to get accurate info on this. Seems like everything you read is heavily slanted in one direction or the other. We do need an energy policy that leads to self-sufficiency. But it seems that all three presidential candidates are avoiding it like the plague. I expect that, when the Dem primaries are over, a national dialogue on energy will develop during the campaign. Maybe we'll have some clear choices at the polls.
It's all very long-term stuff, of course, and won't help us old timers at all. At our age, we'll never see reasonably priced fuel again.
Jack
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Hurricaner
Hurricane Utah
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Quote:According to the news stories I have read, I am under the impression that those shale deposits require a humongous amount of energy - I guess they "cook" it - to extract a usable fuel - and the same with getting diesel from coal. ?? I have read that it's not viable because it takes as much energy to make it as you get out of it - but I'm not well-informed on it.
Absolutely not true. It is just a question of the price of oil and environmental impact. It does have a greater effect on the environment as it consumes some of its own energy to produce and this also makes it less profitable than crude oil. Goggle shale oil and you will find there are 3 or 4 pilot plants already in production.
However the provability point is about 75 bucks a barrel, we are there folks but the oil people have to have some kind of a futures contract to go after this stuff. It will take billions to set up the infrastructure and equipment and if the price of oil drops below 75 bucks a barrel they are screwed.
It will happen but this country will probably be in toilet before it does. Had we spent the money that the Iraq war has cost us on this project, we would all be pumping $2.50 gas.
Sam
Sam & Kari
Hurricane, Utah
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Sea Dog
Ontario Can.
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And why are the oil company's going to sell all of this expensive to produce shale oil for peanuts?
Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Why if they would do this is domestic oil not now selling for fifty bucks a barrel?
When will we in North America get over the idea that we are somehow special and should be cut some slack so that we can go our merrie ways unconcerned about the world around us?
Do you see the North American farmers cutting the price of wheat because the cost of bread is rising?
Guess not!
Instead, they lobby the governments for subsidies so that they can control prices by taking land out of production.
Why should oil companies act any differently than any other corporation?
You may as well lobby to have GM price new Chevvies at two thousand dollars like they were when I was a kid.
Might have better results!
Life is short,Death is long,
Take a vacation.
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