wing_zealot
East of the Mississippi
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wing_zealot wrote:AO_hitech wrote:Your going to have to do a little more research. Yes, it was not closed after all. Shell Oil planned to close the plant to drive up prices. There are “leaked” internal documents that prove this (don't have handy links, sorry). Also, I said tried to shut down. That is what they did. Find the internal documents (I've read them before, so they are out there in the internet) and you can read it for yourself if you don't believe the sworn testimony I presented. Sometimes there are no shortcuts when attempting to find the truth. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
Your sworn testimony occured in February of 2006. I kind of find sworn testimony given before the fact to be not a very credible explanation for something that occurs two years later. Just me though. You may find soothsayers credible.
On the other hand, let's assume this consipiracy is fact. Who should we blame if sworn testimony is given before Congress on a event occuring in 2006, two year before it has a dramatic impact on our economy and way of life, and Congress (with two years to act) apparently does nothing about it?
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Skid Row Joe
Texas
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Joined: 04/26/2006
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trac209 wrote:Skid Row Joe wrote:trac209 wrote:try paying the almost 6 bucks we pay in canada for a country that sells you oil for cheaper the we sell it to ourselves. That's to pay for your almost free healthcare, we don't get it free in America. that has nothing to do with health care sir Socialized medicine's costs have everything to do with taxes paid at the pump and everywhere else in Canada, sir.
At $6.00 a gallon, you've got the bargain of a lifetime for free healthcare. Some people think everything is free.![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/grin.gif "grin")
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crudeman
Texas
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AO_hitech wrote:crudeman wrote:ya that shell story has been beaten to death.
That's because it's such a "good" story. And their intentions were made clear in the "leaked" internal documents. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
Oh no doubt. I cant remember what was the fine or punishment on that anti-trust violation?
Steve & Pat
Hannah - Sophie
2006 HR Ambassador PDQ
2010 Silverado
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wing_zealot
East of the Mississippi
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Speculation - lots of speculation but very little hard evidence. Prices are high because Big Oil companies are closing refineries to lower the supply and drive up demand Prices are high because Oil Speculators are jacking up the price. Prices are high because Bush is in office and he is an oil man. WE got enough oil for the next 60 years, its ________ fault. yadda yadda yadda.
Folks, in the United States alone we burn through 20.7 Million barrels of oil each and every day. You have any concept on how huge a pile that many barrels of oil is? Every day - being pumped out of the earth. And all that oil for just one little corner of the world? Now add in China, Canada, Japan, etc. etc. etc. How long do you think we can sustain that thirst? And you speculate about what is driving up the price of oil. It's hard to put the blame squarely on our own shoulders, it's easier just to blame someone else. Seems pretty clear to me. But hey, what do I know.
* This post was
edited 05/22/08 02:50pm by wing_zealot *
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trac209
winnipeg
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Skid Row Joe wrote:trac209 wrote:Skid Row Joe wrote:trac209 wrote:try paying the almost 6 bucks we pay in canada for a country that sells you oil for cheaper the we sell it to ourselves. That's to pay for your almost free healthcare, we don't get it free in America. that has nothing to do with health care sir Socialized medicine's costs have everything to do with taxes paid at the pump and everywhere else in Canada, sir.
At $6.00 a gallon, you've got the bargain of a lifetime for free healthcare. Some people think everything is free.
* This post was
edited 05/22/08 03:34pm by trac209 *
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trac209
winnipeg
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Skid Row Joe wrote:trac209 wrote:Skid Row Joe wrote:trac209 wrote:try paying the almost 6 bucks we pay in canada for a country that sells you oil for cheaper the we sell it to ourselves. That's to pay for your almost free healthcare, we don't get it free in America. that has nothing to do with health care sir Socialized medicine's costs have everything to do with taxes paid at the pump and everywhere else in Canada, sir.
At $6.00 a gallon, you've got the bargain of a lifetime for free healthcare. Some people think everything is free. what on earth are you talking about? our government is supposed to use the money from gas taxes for the roads not heath care. do you live in canada ? heath care comes from income tax not fuel. we have have had free heath care long before gas was 6.00 a gallon so where did the money come from then. please get your facts right please. in the same token i could cry and say pretty much everything we buy up in canada is more expensive for candians then in the U.S . btw i'm not some people i'm canadian
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eltejano1
Woodville, Texas
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No matter how corrupt they are, however, they still have to sell their product. Even drug dealers don't want to hold-up their customers to the point that they kill the market - they want to wring every possible penny out of them, to be sure, but not force them into seeking rehab.
I think that analogy applies here - the only thing the crooked executives, whoever they may be, have to fear is consumer resistance. Sorry to keep harping on this - but what other realistic options do we have?
The problem with exploring and sharing ways to cut back here, in this group, is the sad fact that it necesarily always comes down to parking the rv - and that's an option that most of us are loathe to consider.
And seeking governmental solutions of any kind is also going to include the likelihood that all recreational fuel guzzlers - planes, boats, rv's, Hummers, luxury cars - will be heavily taxed and socially discouraged, if not flat-out banned! That will be bill #1 if Congress decides to act after the election.
It's a no win situation for us.
Jack
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K3WE
Missouri
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Joined: 05/24/2005
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Yeah, conservation sounds great. Get a smaller car, No Sunday drives, and cut your RVing in 1/2.
Trouble is, that every day theres a few more Americans and a whole lot more Chinese wanting to use petroleum.
And maybe they don't think about it, but it's not just cars. Bread, Big-Macs, Plastic wrappers, game-boys, they all take some fuel to make. So more people ==> more stuff ==> more energy, even if we all sell our RVs.
The bottom line is that the talk of reducing overall demand is to some extent "just talk". Demand is pretty rock solid with no reasonable way to adjust it....except at some ever-closer point where gas gets WAY to expensive and we do some more drastic things.
Yeah, I think we can righfully tar and feather a few whacko-tree-huggers (be clear, I consider myself an environmentalist with an IQ), but nevertheless I tend to belive that drilling for our "own oil" is only one piece of the pizza.
Its sounding serious and maybe there are going to be some drastic changes...A lot more TeleV and a lot less TowV. Maybe smaller houses/apartments close to our work places. Littler cars more like Europe. A flight to Disneyland is a special occasion and not done on a whim.
The economy.....it's going to have to adjust painfully.
The end of RVing? Life as we know it? I hope not. I think there is some wisdom in those who point out that Ownership costs of RV's and Traditional expensive vacations make the gas to get there seem a lot more reasonable even at these painful prices (no, I didn't say cheap).
As to being a "crazy" RV'er going somewhere every weekend, taking long-long-long trips all the time....I'm sure there's going to be less of that.
Hopefully we will progress on alternative energy to heat houses, make things, and maybe some new biofuel firewater, but even that is going to be some high-priced stuff. I think there's some significant shifts afoot.
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Skid Row Joe
Texas
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Sooo, free healthcare for $1.00 a gallon tax, turns out to not be "free," after all. Imagine that is hard to believe.........![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/confused.gif "confused")
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AO_hitech
SF Bay Area
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Joined: 08/09/2004
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wing_zealot wrote:Speculation - lots of speculation but very little hard evidence. Prices are high because Big Oil companies are closing refineries to lower the supply and drive up demand Prices are high because...
I didn't claim that the closing of refineries was the reason. I only disputed your claim that the government and environmentalists were part of the cause by stopping refinery expansion and new construction.
Supply and Demand cannot be the cause of the current spike. The demand just hasn't spiked anywhere high enough in relation to the price spike, nor has the supply lessened to anywhere near the level of the price spike.
The price is manipulated. There is enough evidence to convince me of that. How much that has to do with it I can't say, and I'll likely never know.
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