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Topic: B+ motorhomes

Posted By: cheeze1 on 06/29/09 06:23am

I would guess that a replacement plug might have indications of which color goes where. There must be a guide that shows where each wire must be attached, since polarity must be observed, especially with an rv.
My experiences with replacement plugs have been good/bad, hence my recommendation to get a completely new wire. Artum has a good point tho' and maybe the answer if your wire is in excellent shape.


Chas Morristown, NJ
Trail Lite

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Posted By: burlmart on 06/29/09 07:35am

I'll look at both options. Do you really think my separation of wire to plug head is proof of an overheating due to bad plug head wire to prong connection?

I wonder how common this is?


2005 Trail Lite 213 B-Plus w/ 6.0 Chevy



Posted By: cheeze1 on 06/29/09 07:43am

No, it may have nothing to do with it. One reason I understand Artum's idea is that I've had many premolded plug/wires from power equipment that separated because of usage/lack of quality. If you have noticed unusual heat there, then you might have the culprit. No heat, then its a safety and to a lesser concern, cosmetic issue. Of course I'm assuming you mean the outside(black) cover of the entire wire.


Posted By: Artum Snowbird on 06/29/09 08:57am

Well, to get a bit technical, I am an electrician by trade, industrial mostly.

But, the resistance within a circuit is made up by all the individual parts. Heat is calculated as I (current)² times R (resistance in ohms).

Normally wire and connections to and from the load would only add possibly 1/10 of an ohm or so over the entire length of the wiring and connections. Spread over all the wiring you can calculated I²R to be at 30 amps 30 X 30 X 1/10 = 90 watts

But if you have a weak link, like a frayed connection in a molded plug, or a loose connection in a buss bar, that loose connection may individually cause a resistance of a half ohm. Suddenly just in that one spot you have 30 X 30 X 1/2 = 450 watts. Knowing how hot a light bulb gets, imagine all that heat on that melted buss bar, or feeling that hot plug, imagine how many light bulbs it would take to get that hot.

The most dangerous part of all this is that the voltage starts out at 120 volts, and when the circuit is running fine, the loads on the line see almost 120 volts. But when you have a load like a bad plug or a melting bussbar, that load takes (at 450 watts) about 15% of the voltage, leaving only a little over 100 volts to run your fridge, air cond, etc... The available power in the circuit is robbed by the faulty connection, so everything else doesn't get the power needed to do what it's supposed to do. That causes compressors to struggle with trying to overcome the built in resistance, the more it trys the hotter it gets, the hotter it gets, the more resistance in the wires, until something gives...hopefully the breaker trips before the motor burns out.


Mike
2012 Winnebago Impulse Silver 26QP
2005 16.6 Double Eagle
2018 Jeep Wrangler JK
previously Snowbird Campers,
Triple E Motorhome and Fifth Wheel


Posted By: cheeze1 on 06/29/09 09:46am

Yes Artum, my breaker tripped...a number of times.
Your discourse is spot on. As a former Industrial Arts Teacher and wannabe engineer, I follow all that you have said. Tho' I forget the formula on occasion, (usually on occasion that I need it!) [emoticon] I applaud the clarity of your explanation.
What's also interesting to me is the relative 'fragility' of aluminum, that the average consumer only is aware of when they crush a soda can in their hands. When I taught Metal Shop, I had foundry area where aluminum was the metal of choice. I was amazed at how easily aluminum melted. That aluminum can?-believe me they weren't worth the effort as a raw material. I did cast brass a couple of times, almost double the temps and the pour was pretty exciting. I still have one of the projects. Anyway, it now doesn't surprise me how easily that buss bar melted. The wires were fine, just burned insulation.
Hey! I just noticed you have a Triple E?! They are supposed to be great units!


Posted By: burlmart on 06/29/09 09:53am

Excellent description Artum! That explains a lot to me. Though technical, you put it in practical terms very well.

Yes, Cheese, I am saying the outer black insulation of the big shore power wire from the RV which used to fit snugly into the big molded 30A plug is not only not inserted into the plug, but comes short of meeting it and there is now a gap of 1/8 or 1/4 inch and I can see the inner colored wires.

I may have stretched it somehow to cause the separation?? But when this discussion (and I think one on the general forum) recently mentioned heat at the plug at the CG, I recalled a time or three where I thought it was unusually hot to the touch (I think it was at Henderson Beach SP in Destin).


Posted By: TrueLarry on 06/29/09 10:45am

Molded plugs of all sizes, I have discovered are pretty bad. I have an electric high pressure washer that I ran for about four hours on Saturday. When I finished I discovered that the plug was partially melted and distorted even though the cord itself was cool as a cucumber the whole time. For a time I had it plugged into an extension cord and discovered that the receptacle end of the extension cord was also hot though not melted. Burlmart's lesson learned is a good one for all of us. Even though I'm an engineer (civil) I tend to forget some of this electrical stuff. Thanks, Artum, for the great explanation.


Posted By: burlmart on 06/29/09 11:18am

Larry, I'm also a CE, and that is one reason my electrical know-how is pretty feeble.


Posted By: Artum Snowbird on 06/29/09 01:01pm

There is some plugs that you can get specifically to put on RV cords that have a handle grip built into the plug so the wire hangs down underneath the plug at a right angle. The handle is used to pull and push in the plug itself, and prevents cord separation.

Yes Charles,
Triple E's are known for their quality. They are extremely well insulated and many people use them as three and four season motorhomes with very few weather related problems. The cabinets, fit and finish, and quality of materials used is certainly well up there. Their bigger DP's get as many $$$ as you want to spend. Easily can reach $500K if you so desire...

It's odd though, sometimes the things you don't expect to have a problem prove otherwise. Recently I pulled out the drawers to see what was wrong with them, and why they didn't slide in without jamming. The drawer rail that is supposed to carry the load had a cheap bit of plastic at the extreme inside end supporting the weight, and all the plastic bits were falling apart. All I had to do was add small pieces of wood screwed with FLATHEAD screws (so the rollers on the drawer part wouldn't bind)to the outside of the rails, and the added wood pieces either went to the floor or wall to carry the load while the plastic bits were still just together enough to provide positioning. It wouldn't have taken twenty minutes in the original factory to have supported the rails...

I debated getting nice sliding drawer rails, different methods of holding the drawers shut and all the installation time, and then it hit me, just support what is there and you won't need to do any more. Sometimes I just have to sit and look at a problem for awhile, and then it starts to gell, how to fix it.

regards, Mike


Posted By: cheeze1 on 06/29/09 02:46pm

I've seen the 'handle plugs' on a number of extension cords now, and it's a great idea.
I agree about certain repairs, Mike. Since my Dad was a cabinetmaker/carpenter, and being a wannabe engineer, I tend to take things to the nth degree...well, because I can and it makes me feel good. Those plastic things are more PITA than they are worth and they are usually stapled to the support while they are still somewhat pliable. Don't try to work with them after a couple of years, they turn to dust. I had a "drawer opens while on the road" gremlin and played with all the adjustments to the drawer glides including remounting everything. No luck. So, a couple of eye screws and a small bungee later....
As for my rebuild, for the guys that went thru it with me on this thread in December, turns out my misclick on the special hinge website came back to bite me, since the box top hinges which SHOULD HAVE had springs don't provide the help I need to hold the tops open. My DW now assists me after the seat 'bit' my hand a couple of times on the last trip.
Did I mention anything about fabricating some kind of 'drop down' battery tray?


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