JKMK
NJ
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I don't pretend to know anything about how the Hensley works but I too was at the Hershey show and talked to the person at the display. He told me that the virtual pivot point was at 5-1/2' in front of the ball. I can't say for sure that is correct but I am positive that is what he said.
That being said I have met many salesmen in many different fields that didn't know the details on what they were selling and at times will take a guess and end up giving wrong information in a effort to not look stupid in front of a customer.
'05 GMC 2500HD CC SB D/A & Prodigy
Reece 18K SS w/slider
'05 Jayco Eagle 305BHS
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bettered
UpCountry SC
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An interesting observation, that. Many salesmen will tell you something stupid, and assume (or hope) you don't catch on. The perception of what you might think of them when you later learn the truth of their mis-statements is not an issue for them. They're there to sell the product. Press hard, you're writing through 9 copies.
We've exercised the foibles of many of the sales types from our RV dealerships (and TV dealerships too for that matter) when they make outlandish and misleading or even dead wrong comments about what you can pull, what the unit weighs empty, etc. etc.
For me the frustration is that Hensley, who indeed have a great product, would permit someone who is underqualified to make claims (it locks up) when the staff full well knows better. They can't be hurting that bad for sales...
Ed
BetterEd
DW + 2 grandkids + Mini Schnauzer
2005 Chev 3500 Crew D/A 6.6L LLY, 6 x 6 DRW, 3.73
Tru-Flow + Banks, 2005 Flagstaff 831FKSS
Hensley + Prodigy
"Genius may have its limitations...." E. Hubbard 1856 - 1915
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tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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Anybody who still thinks the hitch is locked from the trailer's "perspective" please see the thread, Problem with stopping straight and Hensley Arrow. There are at least a few Hensley owners who believe that the trailer tongue is allowed to swing side-to-side in the event that the tow vehicle is braking harder than the trailer.
Tim
Tim -
wife Beverly & 2 boys who love camping
2002 K2500 Suburban 8.1L 4.10 Prodigy
2005 Sunnybrook 30FKS HP Dual Cam
Replaced 2000 Sunnybrook 26FK on 8/6/04
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bettered
UpCountry SC
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Thanks for the link Tim. You're right of course, it ain't locked, can't be, never is. What these folks are talking about is the situation where they are in a tight turn such that one of the links has gone past center and then they jam on the TV brakes. In that situation, the TT and hitch will continue forward until the links interfere (hit the stop). This might be 3 or so inches, but it can be quite disconcerting. Since the TT is going in a different direction than the TV, 3" of movement for the TT may be nothing at all for the TV.
Oh, and it's not going to be side to side. The TT is going to continue in the same direction it's pointed until it "hits the stop." The only way it can go to the other side is if the TT reverses (backs up) which is quite unlikely in this scenario.
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bcovey
Vancouver, BC Canada
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The theoretical pivot point of the Hensley isnt static, but the geometery is very similar to the upper and lower control arm geometry of your tow vehicle- the trapezoidal linkage pivot os the intersection of the angles of the lengthwise "V" formed by the links of the Hensley. Wherever the links would intersect ahead of the hitch is where the fulcrum is at that moment. On a front suspension its the same deal, and if you draw a line between the two points of intersection on each front wheel suspension, you get the roll center (imaginary point the front of the car rotates around in corners) which for many vehicles is actually below the ground level. The Hensley isnt optimized for any speific vehicle per se, but moving the pivot forwards by a significant distance, ideally just slightly ahead of the rear axle gives the tow vehicle dramatically greater leverage against the trailer and reduces similarly the effct the trailer can have on pushing the tow vehicle off course, by removing the leverage the trailer has and reducing or eliminating the horizontal articulation between the vehicle overhang and trailer tongue.
The mysteries of the Hensley are somewhat like how a differential works, its sometimes hard to understand at first but once you grasp it it looks very simple.
The Hensley will do pretty much what they claim it does, but many combinations of tow vehicle,standard hitch and trailer have more than adequate built in stability and dont get a really noticable difference. The more drastic the manuever or conditions or poorly matched the TV/TT are the more useful the extra cushion provided by the Hensley is.
Anyhow main thing is if you dont understand the geometry of the Hensley, dont sweat it, lots of people dont (like differentials) but the concept is soundly grounded in much the same way.
Hope thats some help,
Brent Covey
Vancouver BC
1977 Chevrolet C20 3+3 Deluxe Camper Special 8200 GVWR, 454-THM400-3.73 axle
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Melvin P. Thorpe
Folsom,, CA
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Well, 49 pages have sure convinced me I was correct in getting a marketing degree.
Thanks to you guys, I have a somewhat better idea of how it works but I know it works from experience. Us marketing guys are interested in the result not the process but we appreciate those who are interested in the process.
2003 Duramax 2500HD 4x4 Crew Cab w/short bed Snug Top shell Rancho RSX Shocks
'03 Arctic Fox 30U TT
Hensley Arrow,Prodigy
Juice w/Attitude
AFE Intake - Trans-Flow 45 Gal tank
Banks Monster Exhaust (turbo back)
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SASS# 41766
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ClevelandJim
Cleveland, Ohio
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Melvin P. Thorpe wrote:Well, 49 pages have sure convinced me I was correct in getting a marketing degree.
Thanks to you guys, I have a somewhat better idea of how it works but I know it works from experience. Us marketing guys are interested in the result not the process but we appreciate those who are interested in the process.
How true!
2006 Ford E-350 V-10, 4.10, Roadmaster Active Suspension, Maxbrake Controller
2013 Jayco Eagle 324-BTS, 36 Ft, 925 Tongue Weight, 8,000lbs, Henley Hitch
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6MISFITZ
Fort Erie, ON, CANADA
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tluxon wrote:Anybody who still thinks the hitch is locked from the trailer's "perspective" please see the thread, Problem with stopping straight and Hensley Arrow. There are at least a few Hensley owners who believe that the trailer tongue is allowed to swing side-to-side in the event that the tow vehicle is braking harder than the trailer.
Tim
Tim, since you are linking to my issue with stopping straight with the Hensley, PLEASE look at the entire post to see how that saga unfolded, so that your conclusion is correct. If I am wrong, FLAME AWAY but please prove where I went wrong!
The trailer brakes had an electric issue which had nothing to do with the hitch. When the van pulled hard to the left it was the left side trailer brakes NOT GETTING THE SAME VOLTAGE as the right side trailer brakes. The trailer nose would pull to the right trying to turn the vans nose hard left. If anything, the Hensley kept everything inline!
Cranking the gain on the brake controller ensured that more voltage was adequately available for all brakes to apply evenly. This electrical gremlin was traced to the back of the van's trailer plug. There was some visible corrosion from water and electricity (towing in the rain) that made it look like some voltage was being bled off (my wiring diagram is in the trailer or I could tell you which terminal was bleeding to where beside the brake terminal) meaning not all the required voltage made it to brakes.
It looks like the brakes on the trailer are wired in series because when I followed the brake wire - it went to the right side (passenger side of the trailer) first and then crossed over to the trailer's left side or driver side on the tow vehicle. I can only speculate that had there been 4 wires in parallel, ONE from EACH brake drum to the front of the trailer where there was a common bus, then losing some voltage would not have raised such a pull issue but I will leave that speculation to the electricians or mechanics to prove or disprove.
Please if you have any different theory on this, PM me or email me because I would love to find out from the experts!
Once the inside of the trailer plug board was cleaned of any corrosion with fresh dialectric grease, there was no more bleeding off of voltage and I could lower the gain to almost nothing where the Hensley would come forward as the van was doing all the braking, but the pull was negligible as the hitch was properly adjusted.
With that electrical problem, the Hensley kept the the van and trailer in line - albeit puling hard to the left. Had I tried this with our Equal-i-zer it may have caused an irrecoverable jackknife at the hitch (that being the pivot point with the EQ) but I wasn't about to prove any theories, since I had already paid one too many deductibles in the flood of our basement on June 10th.
Mike.
Mom, Dad, 4 kids, 2 Camping Dogs
Express 2500 LS (135"WB) 6.0L, 4.10, G80, PYO wheels, HENSLEY & McKesh
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MISFITZ RACING
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Mike,
I just reread your thread, Problem with stopping straight and Hensley Arrow.
I believe that Tim is not referring to your conclusions but rather to statements by burbman, garfiejd, Mark Kovalsky, quantumleap39, legrz, daveyandkids, and geodude when he says, "There are at least a few Hensley owners who believe that the trailer tongue is allowed to swing side-to-side in the event that the tow vehicle is braking harder than the trailer."
In a different thread, Willald states, "You're right, though, in that this 'feature' of the Hensley is something that needs to be considered, as a general reminder that the Hensley (nor the Pullrite) is NOT a cover-all solution to allow ANY kind of (improperly set up) towing combination. You still need to make sure everything else (like the brake controller!) is set up right, and that the tow vehicle and trailer are matched appropriately."
Because of the way the HA's linkage works, it is especially important to ensure a HA-equipped TT is not allowed to push on the TV.
Ron
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6MISFITZ
Fort Erie, ON, CANADA
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Ron, On my thread, there was a story from what happened to Garfield in a corner with his trailer, so I do agree that the hitch won't save me from every law of physics or that of a ham fisted maneuver by the driver and that towing requires more attention - no matter what hitch.
I fully agree about the tongue issue, I just wanted to clarify the difference between a hard pull to the left with an electrical brake issue VS a very slight or negligible push from the hitch when the van does more braking than the TT with the controller set low on purpose.
Mike.
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