robsouth
Metro-Atlanta, GA
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I was talking with a guy in a camground recently who had the Hensley Arrow Hitch. It was the first one I had ever seen in person. I asked him what were the advantages considering cost. He said he was given a bum steer. He had a perfectly fine Reese hitch and was told by a "salesman" that the Hensley would be a great additon so he jumped on it. Well duh, no change in pulling and he was out the big bucks. That is sorta what I figured. Some just gotta have it cause it is the "best" but whatever works fine too. I have never and would not ever consider paying that much for a hitch as what I have works fine. Thank you very much.
"Sometimes I just sit and think. Sometimes I just sit." "Great minds like a think."
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Stressor
Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin
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Joined: 05/29/2001
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Ah, down to the two multipliers of entities without end. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
The liberal scientific method requires us to accept the simplest possible explanation that covers all the bases. The ghost of Sir William of Occam stands guard with a cudgel in hand for those who would violate this principle.
Tluxon,
Science does not care for legalese. I believe that the hitch projects the pivot point, as indeed it must in order for the linkage to lock up. I believe that this does in fact limit sway, and therefore the document is technically correct. How it does it seems to be missing from the patent application as it frequently is, and Hensley has recently granted us access to this information, illustrating it liberally, and telling us exactly how it does it. It is now up to us to accept it or come up with a better idea. I accept it.
Ron,
I do know the answer, and you are right, I am not telling. I am not telling because it has no bearing on how the Hensley works. There are no forces acting on the hitch that are not applied straight line through the struts. The hitch pivots left and right freely from the TV end, and not at all from the TT end.
Moving the cable left or right means nothing because in operation there exists no mechanism for such a force to be applied. You have violated scientific method by positing something that does not exist and demanding an explanation of what would happen if it did.
As an engineer, it should not be difficult for you to visualize the answer. If the force vector is straight back, and the hitch is locked up, moving the vector left or right would translate some of the force into a twisting moment while the remainder would still be pulling straight back.
This has nothing to do with why the hitch is locked up, because that is a function of three pivot points being aligned, two made of steel and one virtual. Hensley appropriately calls this a converging linkage.
The hitch ball is another red herring. I believe what Hensley says about its function, in that it is allowed to rotate and to pivot up and down to some extent, limited by the struts, and not at all side to side, prevented by properly adjusted struts. The pattern of wear on mine indicates that this is what is happening, and the movement allowed is demonstratable by using adjusting the weight distribution jacks separately, or in concert, to position the hitch head.
Owners of the hitch know the principles of operation of the weight distribution jacks well, because this is what allows us to hitch up if the TV is tilted or off plane in relation to the TT. You might also note that most of us recommend that the purchaser also buy a Tongue Twister. The reason for this is that the hitch head moves not at all side to side.
One more thing needs to be said. This thread is about the Hensley Arrow hitch and how it works. It is well known, and accepted almost universally, that the Hensley Arrow prevents sway. It makes sense to discuss the hitch alone because the hitch is the only difference between a trailer that can sway and a trailer that cannot.
It makes no sense at all to make statements to the effect that the Hensley Arrow prevents sway by working in concert with numerous items that existed before the Hensley was installed. If the only difference in the equation is the Hensley, it is the Hensley that makes the difference.
Milton Findley (and Kerene)
A small piece of my mind...
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drfife
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Joined: 11/02/2002
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robsouth wrote:I was talking with a guy in a camground recently who had the Hensley Arrow Hitch. It was the first one I had ever seen in person. I asked him what were the advantages considering cost. He said he was given a bum steer. He had a perfectly fine Reese hitch and was told by a "salesman" that the Hensley would be a great additon so he jumped on it...
In five years, I've yet to speak to a Hensley owner that has made that statement.
Maybe they exist.
Quote:...I have never and would not ever consider paying that much for a hitch as what I have works fine...
You are towing a 24' travel trailer with a 1 ton truck. You don't need a Hensley. Your experience might be different if you were towing a 35' travel trailer or if your tow vehicle were less capable.
Russell
'12 GMC Sierra 3500HD SRW
'13 Excel Winslow 34IKE
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BurbMan
Indianapolis, IN
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Joined: 09/20/2001
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robsouth wrote:He had a perfectly fine Reese hitch and was told by a "salesman" that the Hensley would be a great additon so he jumped on it.
A little fishy....Hensley does not have salesman or retail distributors. They only sell direct to consumers from the factory. The only way to get one is to call and order it, there are no salesman.
drfife wrote:You are towing a 24' travel trailer with a 1 ton truck. You don't need a Hensley. Your experience might be different if you were towing a 35' travel trailer or if your tow vehicle were less capable.
Very True. The value of the Hensley really becomes apparant when the trailer is 30'+ or has weight/balance issues due to poor design that can't be corrected with a regular WD hitch.
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tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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Joined: 08/12/2001
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Stressor wrote:The liberal scientific method requires us to accept the simplest possible explanation that covers all the bases. The ghost of Sir William of Occam stands guard with a cudgel in hand for those who would violate this principle. Then I am totally opposed to the liberal scientific method. Bring on Sir William!
Stressor wrote:Tluxon,
Science does not care for legalese. I believe that the hitch projects the pivot point, as indeed it must in order for the linkage to lock up. I believe that this does in fact limit sway, and therefore the document is technically correct. How it does it seems to be missing from the patent application as it frequently is, and Hensley has recently granted us access to this information, illustrating it liberally, and telling us exactly how it does it. It is now up to us to accept it or come up with a better idea. I accept it. I don't care for either the patent language OR the marketing lingo on a website - neither of them are valid as scientific evidence, but you brought up the language on the website to try to reinforce your position. And now you're saying that you prefer the marketing language on Hensley's website to the language in the patent. How is that any MORE credible?
Tim -
wife Beverly & 2 boys who love camping
2002 K2500 Suburban 8.1L 4.10 Prodigy
2005 Sunnybrook 30FKS HP Dual Cam
Replaced 2000 Sunnybrook 26FK on 8/6/04
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tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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Stressor wrote:...One more thing needs to be said. This thread is about the Hensley Arrow hitch and how it works. It is well known, and accepted almost universally, that the Hensley Arrow prevents sway. It makes sense to discuss the hitch alone because the hitch is the only difference between a trailer that can sway and a trailer that cannot.
It makes no sense at all to make statements to the effect that the Hensley Arrow prevents sway by working in concert with numerous items that existed before the Hensley was installed. If the only difference in the equation is the Hensley, it is the Hensley that makes the difference. Now that you have a Hensley, I guess you no longer need tires on the ground. C'mon, Milt, statements like this worry me that I'm not speaking with a sane man.
The Hensley is only one part of a system. It wouldn't do any good at all if the rest of the system didn't remain in place. I promise you, the Hensley is as effective as it is BECAUSE of the rest of the system, not in spite of it.
Tim
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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Stressor wrote:The liberal scientific method requires us to accept the simplest possible explanation that covers all the bases. The ghost of Sir William of Occam stands guard with a cudgel in hand for those who would violate this principle.
Actually, Milt, Occam's Razor does not require us to accept that the simplest possible explanation is correct. It only states that the simplest explanation is preferred.
But, since you've raised the issue of multiple interpretations of observations, let's discuss some possible interpretations of your photo and let the readers decide which, if any, is correct or preferred.
Here is the photo, and it is the only factual evidence available.
![[image]](http://home.ripway.com/2005-1/238631/Folder%20Name/Hensleytext006.JPG)
The following observations can be made based on the photo:
1. The main object in the photo does appear to be a Hensley Arrow hitch which is supported off the ground by some means and appears to be oriented in the "straight ahead" position.
2. Other objects appear to be a WD bar swung to the left and a WD bar swung to the right.
3. Another object which might be a cable and clevis assembly appears to be connected to the HA's right strut pin.
4. The photo appears to have been made on June 4, 2005.
5. The photo has a label, "view of hitch with come-along attached", although no come-along is visible.
Given the above, it takes a tremendous stretch of imagination to say, "This picture proves, real world, inarguably, that the Hensley hitch locks up from the travel trailer end." Your claim is only one possible explanation of the evidence presented by the photo. Some other possible explanations of what we can see are:
A. The hitch has been modified so it is fixed in the straight-ahead orientation.
B. There is no tension applied to the cable -- therefore no force on the rear unit.
C. The unseen end of one or both WD bars is anchored so the HA's rear unit cannot move to the side.
D. The rear unit was at some other angular orientation prior to applying tension to the cable; and the rear unit simply moved to the shown orientation when the cable was tensioned.
E. The cable was oriented at an angle which would cause no movement regardless of the magnitude of the force.
F. The HA's linkage "locks up" whenever a tension force is applied at a strut pin.
Let's assume that A and C can be rejected although the photo does not prove they are false. Let's accept your word that B is not true although the photo does not give proof. Let's accept that D is not true although this possibility has not been addressed and the photo does not prove that D is false.
Of these six possible explanations, we are left with E and F. I contend that E is the simplest and preferred explanation. To prove that your assertion is the only possible explanation, requires that you prove there are no other possible explanations. To prove that your claim is the preferred explanation, requires that you prove no other explanation is preferred. There is no way that the photo can substantiate your assertion.
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tluxon
Kirkland, WA
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That's the way I see it as well, Ron.
Another explanation might be that when you pull on the strut pin in the manner shown with the shank (or whatever it's called) of the HA fixed, it is in equilibrium.
Thanks,
Tim
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AO_hitech
SF Bay Area
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Joined: 08/09/2004
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Stressor wrote: The cable is not attached at the same point as the weight distribution bars, those are what is flapping in the breeze out to the sides in the picture.
Although it is not attached to the exact same point as in a std WD hitch (since a std WD hitch doesn't have the exact same point), it is still a far comparison. From appearances you are applying force to a point an in a direction that I would not expect the hitch to move REGARDLESS of it's sway control abilities.
Stressor wrote: Go here if you will, and read what it says.
While the HA appears to be a superior product, I wouldn't take the manufactures word for it. I've seen WAY TO MANY marketing departments that outright lie when it comes to what their products are capable of and how they work. I'm FAR more likely to believe the patent application. Not that those are exact either.
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Stressor
Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin
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All I am seeing is assertions without proofs, without any evidence, not even a photograph of a Hensley Arrow waving in the breeze, in an unlocked condition.
Ron, there is no need to assume anything, we have hitches and hitches. Set up an experiment to prove or disprove your assertions.
Remember: Occam's razor is also called the principle of parsimony. These days it is usually interpreted to mean something like "the simpler the explanation, the better" or "don't multiply hypotheses unnecessarily." William's Web site.
AOHightech, your mechanical reasoning skills are certainly far more advanced than my own. I stand in your shadow.
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