Griff in Fairbanks
AK
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Allow me to clarify. When I said, "I'm not sure if your fuel tank would pass an inspection," I was referring to motor vehicle safety inspections rather than the more familiar smog inspections.
Idaho apparently does not have smog inspections but it most certainly does have safety inspections because these are driven by federal laws and regulations.
While commercial vehicles, especially medium- and heavy-trucks, are the focus the safety inspections, non-commercial vehicles can be subjected to the same inspections. I was pulled over and underwent a safety inspection when I owned my '49 Int'l Metro. I've never experienced a motorhome safety inspection. However, I have received several first-hand reports from people who were pulled over for a CVI/CVE inspection of their motorhomes.
Likewise, I know someone whose diesel tractor (used to pull a heavy fifth wheel travel trailer) has been subjected to frequent CVI/CVE inspections. (The tractor is on the upper end of medium-duty truck classification.)
Most CVI/CVE inspectors will wave a motorhome through checkpoints but it is within the scope of their duties to conduct an inspection.
I mention all this because, if you fail a CVI/CVE inspection, you will not be allowed to proceed. You must either make repairs on the spot or have the vehicle towed to a repair facility.
The possibility of a fuel leak -- or clear signs of a fuel leak -- is one of the ways to fail a CVI/CVE inspection.
If you get pulled over for a CVI/CVE inspection, don't argue with the inspectors. Most inspections only take 15-30 minutes so let them do their thing and wave you on your way. (Save your arguments for the courts or administration officials.)
Forewarned is preferable to a nasty surprise and trip interruption.
1970 Explorer Class A on a 1969 Dodge M300 chassis with 318 cu. in. (split year)
1972 Executive Class A on a Dodge M375 chassis with 413 cu. in.
1973 Explorer Class A on a Dodge RM350 (R4) chassis with 318 engine & tranny from 1970 Explorer Class A
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Griff in Fairbanks
AK
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Leeann wrote:Actually, the best way to weld an old gas tank is to fill it with nitrogen. That's how my husband fixed his motorcycle tank years ago.
You (and others) are absolutely correct ... I didn't think about inert gas. Instead, I was relying on what I learned 40+ years ago from an amazing 'shade tree' mechanic. (The old guy I've mention before, who grew up with the boys who started NASCAR.)
I really need to remember inert gas. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/grin.gif "grin") ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
In StingrayL82's case, filling a 51 gallon tank would take a lot of inert gas.
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StingrayL82
Nampa, Idaho
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Idaho does have smog, but only for vehicles newer than 1981. It does NOT, however, have a safety inspection like Texas or PA, where you get an inspection sticker on your windshield.
I’ve traveled across the US numerous times in RVs or towing horse trailers without ever being stopped to be inspected by anyone, state or federal. One of the first times I ever towed a living quarters horse trailer, I stopped at a weigh station in Indiana and the DOT man told me they don’t care about vehicles with a less than 26,000lbs GVWR. Unless you are using your RV for commercial purposes, or it’s registered to a company, or it weighs 26,001lbs, there is ZERO reason for it to be subjected to a CVI.
Regarding smog/safety laws, vehicles only need to conform to the law that was in effect the year they were built, which is why I’m not required to have doors or a three-point seat belt in my Jeep.
Fred
Retired Army Guy
2005 Monaco LaPalma 37PST
Workhorse W24 chassis
8.1L Vortec
Allison 2100 MH
Onyx Color Scheme
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Griff in Fairbanks
AK
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StingrayL82 wrote:Only one of those fixtures is for the vent. There is a hose that runs all the way up to the metal filler. No filter, but it's a great idea. The other fixture is the return. Monaco plugged the original return off at the sender...because of the extra capacity of the tank, it sits right up at the floor of the coach, so the fixtures have to bend 90° and the original return on the sender does not.
Do not change it! An air filter on that hose will create more problems than it solves. It will also disable EPA mandated emissions controls.
The other vent on the tank is for the Evaporative emissions control. (See link.)
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VintageMopar
Missouri
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Many cars and trucks have the fuel inlet below/at the midpoint of the tank. I know chrysler/plymouth/dodges of the 80s and 90s have a lot that do.
I think the tank is just fine as long as it doesn't leak and you have a good rubber fuel inlet hose coupler to fill tube. One of those vent nipples on the tank goes to the top of fill tube to reduce kickback when filling.
They started sometime in the 90s adding a ball valve on the inlet so if you rolled over fuel would not exit the inlet opening.
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Griff in Fairbanks
AK
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StingrayL82 -
Assuming you want to paint the gas tank and prevent further exterior corrosion:
Use a rust converter instead of a rust remover. (Alternate description.)
One of my businesses, Riffgan Restorations, includes what you're doing. Specifically, restoring older motor vehicle parts. On thicker metal, I use rust remover. On thinner metal, I use rust converter. (I prefer completely removing rust but with thinner metals there's a risk of penetrating the metal.)
Rust remover consists primarily of phosphoric acid, with surfactants to aid penetration. (3M Scotch Brite pads are the secret behind using rust removers.). The phosphoric acid leaves an iron phosphate coating that partially inhibits corrosion and serves as a primer. (Check the ingredients labels on Coke and Pepsi cans.)
Rust converter consists of tannic acid and polymers. (Some rust converters include phosphoric acid as a minor ingredient.). The tannic acid converts active rust into an inactive form and the polymers seals everything. Rust converters also serve as a paint primer.
Both of these require removal of all loose rust and dirt prior to application. You also need to thoroughly remove any oil and grease. Otherwise, you wind up wasting rust remover or rust converter and are often left with incomplete removal or conversion.
I use a multistep process for cleaning. Tuff Stuff Cleaner and a stiff brush for heavy concentrations of oil and grease. Dish soap, TSP, and hot water, with a stiff brush, rag, or Scotch Brite pad, followed by a hot water rinse. Denatured alcohol rinse to remove remaining rinse water.
Depending on how the part is going to be finished, I usually follow those steps with a commercial cleaner/degreaser/wax remover, acetone, MEK, or other solvent. I usually follow with a phosphoric acid etch or a phosphate coating.
Load bearing parts, such as caster shims, get a manganese phosphate coating and a corrosion inhibitor. (Assuming I have a heated tank large enough to hold the part.)
Phosphate coatings create issues for some powder coating so I often stop at 'bare' metal and start the powder coating with a zinc-rich primer powder.
The result is an equal to or better than new part.
(No, I haven't included some of the special things I do, such as using Hi-Temp Lab metal to fill pits.)
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Griff in Fairbanks
AK
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VintageMopar wrote:Many cars and trucks have the fuel inlet below/at the midpoint of the tank. I know chrysler/plymouth/dodges of the 80s and 90s have a lot that do.
I think the tank is just fine as long as it doesn't leak and you have a good rubber fuel inlet hose coupler to fill tube. One of those vent nipples on the tank goes to the top of fill tube to reduce kickback when filling.
They started sometime in the 90s adding a ball valve on the inlet so if you rolled over fuel would not exit the inlet opening.
Amen. Well said.
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Griff in Fairbanks
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Important safety note: Welding steel with any kind of zinc coating is dangerous. Galvanized steel is especially dangerous but zinc phosphate is also dangerous. You don't want to breath the fumes.
Read this article for an overview.
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StingrayL82
Nampa, Idaho
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Griff in Fairbanks wrote: Do not change it! An air filter on that hose will create more problems than it solves. It will also disable EPA mandated emissions controls.
The other vent on the tank is for the Evaporative emissions control. (See link.)
I wasn't planning on putting an air filter on it, more like a screen filter, but I just took a look at where it routes to, which is at the filler neck, so there is no need to install anything, since there's no way any crud could get to the vent.
There is no vent on that tank that goes to the Evap canister. My evap canister connects to the carb, and that's it. The two fittings on top are for the fuel return and the vent hose that goes to the filler. As I said in my other post, the original return nipple on the sender isn't used anymore, due to space restraints. What I think would be a good idea, though, is to fit a tee into the vent hose and run it up to the Evap canister, to complete the emissions circuit.
VintageMopar wrote:Many cars and trucks have the fuel inlet below/at the midpoint of the tank. I know chrysler/plymouth/dodges of the 80s and 90s have a lot that do.
I think the tank is just fine as long as it doesn't leak and you have a good rubber fuel inlet hose coupler to fill tube. One of those vent nipples on the tank goes to the top of fill tube to reduce kickback when filling.
They started sometime in the 90s adding a ball valve on the inlet so if you rolled over fuel would not exit the inlet opening.
Groovy, thanks. My 1976 Jeep actually has a rollover valve. AMC started installing them in '76. You can take it apart and clean it too, very simple design that works like a carburetor float.
Griff in Fairbanks wrote:Important safety note: Welding steel with any kind of zinc coating is dangerous. Galvanized steel is especially dangerous but zinc phosphate is also dangerous. You don't want to breath the fumes.
Read this article for an overview.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of cyanide gas. Given the consensus, I'm going to leave the inlet where it's at.
I started painting the tank this evening. All of the fittings are closed off with Gorilla Tape, and I'm using a wire wheel to get the surface rust off, then I'm using Krylon Matte Black and I like the results. The tank is 1/4" steel (read heavy mother), so I'm not worried about punching through anything...it's one solid SOB. Check out the initial "P" from the guy who welded the tank, it's just to the right of the inlet in the pic. My father-in-law used to put his initials on the chassis he welded at Kit's.
Speaking of welding (God those are ugly welds!), I forgot to post earlier that there is a drain bung (you were talking about that Griff), but someone welded it up completely, so no worries about that either.
What's funny is that that Monaco lists it as a 49gal tank, but when I took the measurements of the tank and did some math, my result came to 51gal. What really made me laugh was when I pulled the sender out of the tank and saw what Monaco did. They took the stock sender out of the tank that came with the chassis cab, cut the float arm and added 4" of wire to it, by braising it....total Frankenstein job. And, yes, I know there's no filter sock on the sender. The old one is nasty, so I ordered a new one.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/A2GuUuDl.jpg)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/7k4UreZl.jpg)
* This post was
edited 02/10/18 07:50pm by StingrayL82 *
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Griff in Fairbanks
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StingrayL82 wrote:There is no vent on that tank that goes to the Evap canister. My evap canister connects to the carb, and that's it. The two fittings on top are for the fuel return and the vent hose that goes to the filler. As I said in my other post, the original return nipple on the sender isn't used anymore, due to space restraints. What I think would be a good idea, though, is to fit a tee into the vent hose and run it up to the Evap canister, to complete the emissions circuit.
Getting those evaporative emissions control systems to work right is a royal PITA. I applaud your effort to improve your emissions control but also recognize it may be difficult.
StingrayL82 wrote:Yeah, I'm not a big fan of cyanide gas. Given the consensus, I'm going to leave the inlet where it's at.
Actually, it's zinc oxide fumes/particles you need to worry about.
StingrayL82 wrote:I started painting the tank this evening. All of the fittings are closed off with Gorilla Tape, and I'm using a wire wheel to get the surface rust off, then I'm using Krylon Matte Black and I like the results. The tank is 1/4" steel (read heavy mother), so I'm not worried about punching through anything...it's one solid SOB. Check out the initial "P" from the guy who welded the tank, it's just to the right of the inlet in the pic. My father-in-law used to put his initials on the chassis he welded at Kit's.
Unfortunately, you left active rust under the Krylon ... small bits that will eventually grow, causing the paint to flake off and continuing to eat away at the tank.
The tank is probably 1/8" or at most 3/16" thick. For anything more than 1/16 inch, I use rust remover. Formerly, I used Rust-Oleum Krud Kutter The Must For Rust but local sources appeared to quit carrying it. Now I use PPG DX579, diluted to suitable concentrations.
StingrayL82 wrote:Speaking of welding (God those are ugly welds!), I forgot to post earlier that there is a drain bung (you were talking about that Griff), but someone welded it up completely, so no worries about that either.
What's funny is that that Monaco lists it as a 49gal tank, but when I took the measurements of the tank and did some math, my result came to 51gal. What really made me laugh was when I pulled the sender out of the tank and saw what Monaco did. They took the stock sender out of the tank that came with the chassis cab, cut the float arm and added 4" of wire to it, by braising it....total Frankenstein job. And, yes, I know there's no filter sock on the sender. The old one is nasty, so I ordered a new one.
I'm amazed at some of the ugly, clueless things motorhome manufacturers did to early motorhomes. The welds on your tank are actually quite good compared to what I found on my 1969/70 Explorer. The rear frame extensions were unnecessarily heavy channel iron and the person who welded them on obviously believed "if a little filler metal is good, a lot is better." They apparently used about four times as many buzzbox electrodes as necessary.
The trailer hitch was even worse ... a beginning welder in high school would have been embarassed ... and failed the course. There was six inches difference between the attachment points on the left and right sides of the frame. Some of the welds looked like excessively heavy (3/8" bead) tack welds and other welds completely failed to engage the base metal. There was also one place where it appears that they managed to burn through 1/4" base metal and plugged the hole with filler metal.
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