mithril
New Hampshire
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I had 1995 Suburban with a 350 engine and 3.73 rear end. When I towed my trailer 1500 miles I got 7.5 MPG while towing and nearly 15 MPG when I got to my destination. My total round trip fuel economy was 8.5 MPG.
I traded the burb for a Dodge 3500 HO Diesel 4.10 rear end. During regular no load driving I get 16.2 MPG and the truck isn't fully broken in yet. This weekend I towed my boat home from the lake. My boat weighs in about the same as the trailer, the trailer weighs 6900 lbs dry and the boat and trailer about 6700 lbs dry. With Stuff on board I figure they are pretty much equal. During the trip home I averaged 12.3 MPG.
There is no comparison between the trucks. A new burb and a new Dodge 3500 would be roughly the same price, but there is just no way a GMC 350 can campare in power and fuel economy with the RAM. Of course the diesel engine in the RAM is worth nearly $5k by itself so that can buy alot of gas, but for me the extra towing capacity afforded by the diesel was the deciding factor. It took all the burb had to tow my toys, the Ram has power to spare which is a really nice feeling.
2004 Dodge 3500 CC 4x4 SRW 4.10 HO diesel
2003 Mallard 33z (for now)
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tgatch
Meridian, ID
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Joined: 08/13/2003
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Quote: There is no comparison between the trucks. A new burb and a new Dodge 3500 would be roughly the same price, but there is just no way a GMC 350 can campare in power and fuel economy with the RAM.
While I agree the there is no comparisson, the one you have drawn is unfair. Compare a current day 8.1 instead of a GM 350. I think the you will find the power to be surprisingly similar. The mileage difference will still exist.
If you are going to compare, use two vehicles that are rated to do the same job, ie.: 8.1 vs. Duramax, or V-10 vs PSD.
Mind you I am an advocate for using a diesel for towing BIG.
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b ubblerboy64
946 Ashton Shippensburg Pa 17257
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Joined: 10/18/2004
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I am a new member and two years into the RVing. I read about an hours worth of this and I would conclude that Gas vs Diesel comes down to this. Trucks are tools. Buy the one that is best for the job you are putting it too. I am currently pulling a 24ft TT with a Tahoe for maybe 6000miles per year on mostly flat ground. I am toying with the idea of moving up to a 5th wheel. My analysis of all this is that when I make this move and obviously trade trucks that a diesel truck would be best especially if I plan to increase the miles I would put on the rigs. Its apparent to me that if it costs big bucks to make this jump and my decision has more to do with how much time and distance I am going to spend in the RV then anything. I have seen little or no reason to go gas except the cost of admission. That you can't argue with. Yes you have the disadvantages of diesel and I would suggest that is the trade off for having to have a bigger better trailer. I am happy with the Tahoe with what I am towing but the reality is I know the limitations too. Big trailers need big powerful TV with big powerful motors and that pretty much spells DIESEL in todays world. You could argue the money till the cows come home but this is silly to a point. I think the issue is waste with fuel economy. I think everyone would agree its wasteful enough getting 13 mpg as compared to 7 0r 8 mpg. John H
John Heckman
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PSDExcursion
Millstone NJ
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Joined: 08/17/2001
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Quote:There is no comparison between the trucks. A new burb and a new Dodge 3500 would be roughly the same price, but there is just no way a GMC 350 can campare in power and fuel economy with the RAM.
A Dodge 3500 325/600 Cummins vs a Chevy 3500 310/605 Duramax would be a much better comparison.
2002 Chevy Express 3500 8.1 155" WB passenger van
41 Ft 2003 Thor Citation 41-ZBSR TT w/ Hensley Arrow
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Rogerg
WESTERN N.Y. U.S.A.
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Joined: 01/23/2004
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Quote:QUOTE
Gas engines have the same lifespan of diesel engines?????
High maintenance costs on a diesel engine?????
(Which solar system is this guy living in????? LOL!)
________________________________________________________________________________
If gas engines have the same lifespan of diesel engines, then why is there no deduction for miles on a diesel engined motorhome, versus a gas motorhome???
If diesel engines have higher maintenace costs than gas engines, why is it, that I almost never out of pocket on engine repairs, with EVERY diesel engine I've ever owned? All with hundreds of thousands of miles on them when sold.
Maintenance costs for a 1999-2001 7.3 PSD. These are costs having the work done at a dealer. If you have the time to do it yourself you can save.
Oil and Lube; 15 qts 15W40 and 2 qt filter, $65.00-$90.00 5000 mile intervals. 3000 miles is the HD maintenance.I went 1500 miles this week with trailer.
Fuel Filter; $45.00-$55.00 + labor 15000 mile intervals
Coolant Additive; $8.00 + labor 15000 mile intervales
Coolant Flush; $120.00 30000 mile intervals
There is a deduction for miles on diesel trucks. Check KBB or NADA. You get more trade in value for a diesel, but there is a deduction for miles. If they didn't give you more at trade in, who would pay a $5000 premium for diesel?
It has been said on this site that GM'S 8.1 gas and Duramax diesel are both rated at 200,000 miles. Is that true or false?
Lets talk about fuel milage. I can get 10.5 mpg - 12.5 mpg with my F-350 7.3 PSD, with a 6000#-13000# trailer. That is 13000#-20000# GCW. Lets go to 25000#-26000# GCW or GVW, high profile, 12'-13', and wide body, 100"-102". Everybody I talk to gets 8-9 mpg. That is GM 8.1, Ford V-10, Dodge 5.9 HO, Ford PSD. It just came to me that I have not been able to talk to anyone with a Duramax. Have not come across that many.
Rogerg
2001 F-550
1999 Coachmen Prospera 365IKS
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mithril
New Hampshire
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Joined: 04/20/2004
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I can't make a comparison to a Duramax, or an 8.1 because I've never owned one. But I did own a Chevy Suburban which is the same truck as the Yukon and I now own the Dodge RAM, so that's the ONLY comparison I can make. If I tried to do anything else I'd be pulling it out of thin air. Now, perhaps if there is a Duramax owner out there who has also owned a Suburban or Yukon they may be in a better position to respond, but what I reported is absolutely accurate based on my experience. I really did get 7.5 MPG in the burb and 12.3 in the RAM and the RAM will tow circles around the burb.
Before you guys criticize you really need to read the post and see what is being said. My response was REAL WORLD experience not theory from white papers or spec sheets.
-Mithril
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sack1
Kent, WA
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Joined: 08/16/2002
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I don't think anyone is doubting what you say but anything with the SB 350 in it is not rated to tow in the same league as the current BBs or diesels. It is a somewhat common comparison made by many diesel owners. They have an older SB or even BB and then trade to a larger/heavier trailer. That pushes the limits, if not even going past them, and they see the need to get a beefier TV. The comparison is understandable but not really a fair one.
I know from our own experience how well our 8.1 tows our 32'/12k 5er. Sure I may downshift before the new diesels would on steeper inclines but where is that a crime? But I don't need to scream the engine unless I wanted to do so. The Allison gives it plenty of ratios to keep it in the sweet spot.
Yes, the 8.1 and Duramax are rated as 200k motors. The 8.1 has fully 20% of its production for marine applications and is built heavier because of it.
I now have just over 25k on the clock and recently towed to the ocean and back for 300 miles @ 60 - 62 mph when able. I averaged 9.4 mpg. I consider that quite good. I would have to drive quite aggressively to get down into the 7's like some say they get. Sure the diesels would return better mileage but friends of ours with a similar overall setup and Ford 7.3 PSD average only 11.5 for the same trip. I don't consider that a significant difference.
'03 Chevy 2500HD 4x4, LT, Ext. cab, LB
8.1/Allison, 4.10
'03 32' 2955 Montana 5er
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JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
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Joined: 09/14/2003
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11.5 to 9.4 mpg not significant ? Thats a 23% differance in fuel consumption. Thats a huge increase in fuel costs......JIM
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides
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sack1
Kent, WA
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I guess that depends on one's definition of huge.
I'll take fuel prices as of yesterday at the Shell I frequent. Unleaded regular was $2.029 and diesel was $2.439. I'll let you do the math.
I saw another station offering diesel about $.10 less and at that the difference would amount to only a few bucks between my cost and our friends.
Then there's the factor of the initial cost of the diesel over and above. When you're dealing with a few bucks here and a few bucks there sure you pay more for fuel but it would take a l-o-n-g time to recoup that initial outlay as many diesel owners say is a big reason for buying a diesel. Sure, fuel prices vary around the country but around here it is rare that diesel goes below regular. But right now diesel is through the roof. (Isn't it all?)
Then too, in the whole scheme of thing, I wouldn't say either figure is much to brag about. Diesel or not we all get rather shi**y mileage compared to most any other vehicle out there.
Using the dollars per gallon I listed above figure the fuel costs between a vehicle getting 25 mpg and one getting 15 over 10,000 miles.
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123Herewego
Sunnyvale, CA
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Joined: 06/22/2004
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sorry about that question...won't bother you again with another.
* This post was
edited 10/26/04 08:06am by 123Herewego *
Skip and Linda
The Fun People
2005 F250 4x4 Diesel
2006 Cougar by Keystone
244EFS 5th Wheel
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