Lyman
Colorado Springs, CO
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Joined: 08/08/2005
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Thanks, metalmangler. Latest problem from someone in the park? Hmmmm.
2002 Newmar Dutch Star Cummins Diesel on a Spartan chassy. Has a decent 4wd toad. Driving through Colorado, someone tells him to pull over. His connector to the toad has come loose and is dragging on the ground. Ripped it up good and the connector end is gone and the wires are damaged from dragging the ground. No diodes, the dealer ran wires from the front of the toad to the back and put in extra light bulbs, so he replaced the cord and all is good there. (For those of you with toads where you have diodes in the lines from certain dealer installs -- if you are connected to the RV and turn on the headlights (and some other systems) in the toad, you create a feedback loop. Burns out the diodes and will do very weird things to your RV electrics. Make sure you unhook that connector before doing anything involving electricity with the toad or no lights on the toad and some very weird issues that could end up being Electronic Control Module related).
Anyway, he's back on the road. About 40 miles from here, his gauges suddenly go bonkers. All read wrong. He pulls in here (Fountain Creek RV Park in Colorado Springs) and calls a mobile maintenance man (who we that live here have never seen before - he'd just dropped a business card in the office - the normal guy we see is really good and does have all the testers. But being a biker couldn't be reached and is probably at Sturgis for the big bike rally). Anyway, no ODBC tester; he just starts checking some mains and fuses and relays. A couple relays he replaces. After 2 hours, no fix, but gives up. Charges 90.00. His neighbor and I have no ODBC tester either, but we are both pretty good with electrics (prior military jobs and I work for HP) and know from watching the maintenance guy that he didn't bother to check all the fuses. So the search is on. Guy doesn't know where his dash fuse box is. Look everywhere and can't find it - inside and out. Ask him about the cover on the top of the dash, he says the dealer told him it's an airbag under there (hey, they're making advances all the time, who knew?). We exhaust every possibility; turn off the battery disconnect, wait 2 minutes and reset. Same problem. Unhook toad, same problem. Check every fuse and circuit breaker we can find with a ohmmeter, mainly checking for continuity; find a cuple bad and replace them, same problem. Finally he pulls that cover on the top of the dash. Lo and behold!!! Fuse board. Every fuse is good, all the relays check out, but can't get the ignition (F9) relay to budge. Likely burned inside and fried itself to the contacts. Not going to break the circuit board (I work computers - doesn't pay to ruin circuit boards for nothing) by prying it up with a screwdriver; suspect that's what caused his other 2 relays which deal with the ignition to go bad. For the record, all gauges point straight up (although sitting still, for instance, the speedo reads 40 mph and he has 1/2 tank of gas when he knows he has under 1/4). Sure, pull a couple relays (I don't recommend this, the maintenance man did it and I just shook my head- good way to fry other systems; got the feeling the so-called maintenance guy didn't know squat; but I'm not going to interfere - some of those guys get pretty upset when you do and the Dutch Star owner was paying for this and didn't want to upset him either) while the engine is running and either nothing on the dash, just red lights everywhere, or the gauges are working, or going crazy. That's how he came to replace 2 relays under the hood maintenance man figured they were fried so replaced them and said that's all I can do, got paid, and left. Twit. Quit for the night, this guy's had a hard day and at least he had SOMETHING to check on. Went online and printed out his recalls from NHTSA (3 - one for fumes, 2 for brake systems) and the Newmarcorp.com recommended service centers, one of which is 8 miles from here. And point him to a decent restaurant so he and the wife can eat.
After dinner, we sit down and have a beer, and then off to bed (after all, I have to work in the morning and he has some calls and decisions to make).
In the morning, he calls Fleetwood (authorized Newmar service center here) and they can't get to him until Thursday. He calls Spartan. Their service center is closer and can get him in tomorrow, and while after an hour they agree it may be the relay, they want to make sure (and if they break the board, they have to pay for it). Then he buys us each a 6-pack for our trouble. We (his neighbor, who I ride motorcycles with) say thanks, 'twerent nothing and we'd do it for anyone. So his neighbor and I invite them to dinner and a local (awesome) German restaurant and pick up the bill, letting him take the tip. He balks, but we remind him we've both been places where stuff goes wrong and all of a sudden something happens and money starts going up in smoke (my trip to Havasu, his neighbor's trips to bike rallys in a class A towing the bikes where he had to pay for an engine one trip, a tranny another, and on the last an air conditioner). He acquiesces at that point, we come home, give him directions on how to get to the maintenance center Spartan told him about, and we all sit down and have a couple beers and about an hour worth of really good conversation. Nice evening. We'll see what happens at the maintenance garage, and I'll keep you posted.
Oh, and by the way. I did relay a couple of the experiences people on here have posted (took 5 hours to read through 38 pages, but I enjoyed it), but not all. Didn't want to turn the guy and his wife into people just waiting for the other shoe to drop. He has Michelins. Does check his pressure before moving that thing. Knows now to get and keep spare fuses and maybe some other parts. Laughed that I immediately thought of Utahans when I read She Who Must be Obeyed. Laughed about the wife towing the RV with the 4wd when you have coverage to get towed (laughing with you folks, not at you - it's all a learning experience). Knows he can (did you know?) talk to Newmar and Spartan and Cummings and order manuals (parts, service, and user) and schematics, although he may have to pay for them. The manual with the RV is good for some things, but has no real schematics (doesn't even say where the fuse boxes are),and he knows a darn sight more now about his rv than he did (like dealers may not know what they are talking about when it comes to air bags in an rv), talking to us and a couple other neighbors (one of which has of all things a 2003 Dutch Star who just happened to pull in 3 days ago for a week stay). I know the service center he's going to will have the right ODBC unit (after reading these posts and living in a park, I'm going to buy the whole kit(odbc1, 2, and the foreign one complete with code manuals for all makes and models 1983 through 2007) for 299.00 off of a website I found. Would have loved to have been able to isolate the exact cause for him, and I've used those items before, just never bought one.
I'll keep you posted on the results of his problem.
And just in case...anyone know how to turn off that annoying air pressure alarm they have on those Dutch Stars? Until there's enough pressure, the thing goes off after the engine is started. Dang that's annoying. Also, if he hits a hard enough bump on the road, one of his jacks will evidently drop an inch or less, but enough to activate the jacks down light and alarm. Scares the bejesus out of him and the wife. He stops immediately every time and verifies the jack is indeed up, but that alarm......he'd love a way around that. I advised he ask the maintenance shop tomorrow, but thought some of you would have an idea as well. Seem like a pretty smart group of people here, and I've certainly gained a lot of information from you as well.
As a final note for now, he and the wife are dropping off the rv in the morning, taking the cog railway to the top of Pike's Peak around 1 p.m., and spelunking in Cave of the Winds tomorrow. Always make the best you can of what seems like a bad situation and learn to laugh. At yourself, and at what others have gone through. Commiserate with them too, as we did with all of you. Sure makes life in an rv more bearable. For instance; the guy and his wife who got pulled over by a new highway patrolman in Arizona for not wearing seat belts. Class A, older one, say late 70's early 80's. Those didn't have shoulder belts, just lap belts (which they did have on but the cop could only see that no shoulder belts were being worn and presumed....). Had to invite him inside and show him there weren't any holes for them so they hadn't removed them, they were just not installed back then. At least the cop got an education and a cup of hot coffee and a sandwich out of the deal. He won't be pulling over any more Class A drivers for that, although he's likely learned also that the newer units do have shoulder belts. They are friends of mine and we all laughed our rear ends off over that one. As I expect you are right now.....lol. And as you are online, check your vehicle's recalls using NHTSA.com. Especially as if in this case, you've bought it used and aren't registered with your parent company - they don't know how to tell you there may be a problem with your unit if they can't find you. He's going to have those recalls checked tomorrow too.
2000 Pace Arrow Vision, 36B, 2 slides, Ford V10
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2003 Indian Chief
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mtrumpet
Hamburg, NY
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Joined: 07/08/2005
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Great stories Lyman. Some eye-opening info in them too.
Keep 'em coming!
Mark & Cherie
2002 Newmar Dutch Star DP 3872, Cummins 350 ISC, Spartan Chassis
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larryabramson
Memphis, TN
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Joined: 07/14/2005
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2001 DutchStar Class A, W22 Chassis
We had our brakes worked on (new calipers and abs sensors) twice before the recall. After the recall work, we drove it about 50 miles and the brakes were smoking again. Took it back to the dealer and again, they replaced the calipers and abs sensors. Left on a trip, got about 350 miles and the abs light came on, then I lost ALL brakes. Managed to get it to a campground, then called Workhorse the next morning (2001 W22 chassis). They agreed to tow it for repair, even though it was out of warranty (actually, they have covered all the work so far even though it's now 1.5 years out of warranty) to a different service center after we finished our vacation. It's been there 2 weeks and they checked everything and told me they would replace everything, if necessary. So far, they have replaced the rear calipers, the bad master cylinder, 4 brake hoses (3 tested bad so they replaced all) and the caliper guide pins.
Tomorrow (well, actually today..08/17) will be the test. The VP of Workhorse is picking it up and driving it back to us and will test the brakes, determine if it's porpoising, etc. We shall see!!
Larry
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rickbpdq
Houston, TX, U.S.A.
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Joined: 07/30/2004
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RV particulars:
Driveline (Engine, Transmission): Chevrolet 454, 4L80E
Miles: ~28000
Year: 1997
Break Down Description: I was getting ready to hit the road, and I stopped by my nearby grocery store to get some provisions. After storing my purchases the coach wouldn't start, just heard click-click-click from the starter.
- Tried auxiliary start: no improvement
- Tried auxiliary start with generator running: nothing
- Tried manually jumping the coach and chassis batteries, no dice.
- Tried jumping the chassis battery from my dinghy.
- Thoroughly cleaned connections and battery posts: nothing.
Now I'm beginning to suspect a failure with the starter. Went to Auto Zone and bought a new starter, and installed it myself. Exact same symptoms: just clicks when I turn the key.
I called by brother-in-law who knows a lot more than me. It turns out there was some corrosion and buildup between the copper battery cable and the circular connectoids on the end.
We removed the positive battery cable that runs from the battery to the starter, and we took it to an auto parts store. The auto parts store removed the old connectoids, and crimped on new ones. Unit cranks fine now.
We purchased additional eye connections which we installed on the negative cables on-site.
I'm lucky this occured just a few miles from the house, my dinghy was available, and I had a strong cell phone signal. Had this happened in the middle of nowhere I'm sure I would have been on the hook for an enormous towing bill.
I find it odd that I had the problem with such a young, low mileage unit. I'm sure if I would USE the darn thing more the corrosion wouldn't have had a chance to build up.
It turns out the original starter wasn't bad, but I keep it on-board in case of a future starter failure. The starter is very easy to change on this unit.
After this debacle I also cleaned the connections where the negative battery cables connect to the chassis.
Also, I've purchased spare a battery cable which I keep inside the MH so, if the alternator fails, I can wire the house and chassis batteries together, rather than having to jury-rig the auxiliary start switch.
* This post was
edited 08/22/05 01:43am by rickbpdq *
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Lyman
Colorado Springs, CO
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Ok, finally got an update for you on that Dutch Star problem. Had to call the shop, since they left right from there. They finally got into the shop on the 10th, and were gone later that day. Shop replaced a Horn relay (missing), and ABS relay (blown), and the dash gauge problems were caused by a faulty Interface Module, part # 00-41217. There you go.
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Golfingene
Placerville, CA, USA
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Joined: 06/10/2004
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Boy is my face red, it seems that although the problem was the Fan Hub and had to be replaced, IT WAS NOT A HORTON FAN HUB. Seems this was a Catapillar part. Cat replaced it and it works fine. Sorry, Horton.
Golfingene and Mary Lou
'04 Winnebago Journey 39K DP
Toad: '99 Grand Cherokee w/
Blu Ox Aventa II, Brakemaster Air Brakes
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Bella
On The Road
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Joined: 03/31/2003
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I was on a trip to Canada this month and had the following happen just south of Calgary, Alberta.
RV particulars: Winnebago Brave 34D
Driveline (Engine, Transmission): Workhorse
Miles: approx. 10,000
Year: 2004
Break Down Description: Reduced Engine Power
Symptoms: See above
Effect: See above
Cause: Wire under the dash came loose
Outcome: Engine power went down to almost nothing while going uphill. The LED readout on the dash stated "Reduced Engine Power" so I said No S**t, now tell me WHY. The "Check Engine" light came on at the same time. I pulled over and called Workhorse Emergency Road Service. The sent a tow truck and hauled me back to Calgary. Diagnostic showed a wire under the dash came loose. The computer didn't know how much power I was applying so it reduced the power. I got the service guy to show me where the wire was. Away I went. Two days later, while driving through Wyoming, going uphill, I lost engine power AGAIN. Same readout on the LED. This time, while pulled to the side of the highway, I risked my driver's door and my A**, half crawled under the dash and made sure the wire was connected. Gave it 15 minutes and it started with full engine power. The "check engine" light was on but I continued truckin. The next morning, when I started it, I had full engine power and no fault light. I will be having a discussion with Workhorse. This is the second wire that's "come loose" under the dash. Last time was a few months ago. I pulled into a campground and couldn't put my jacks down or my slides out. I still have the problem of my entire dash going out for no reason while I'm driving. I had the cluster software upgrade installed. Guess that didn't help.
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2004 Winnebago Brave 34D
2003 Pontiac Sunfire
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Jim@HiTek
Gresham, OR, USA
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Joined: 07/17/2004
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Bella,
Check that the wire bundle(s) under the dash all have enough slack so that normal things like temperature changes, road vibration, or movement caused by the 'tilt' feature of the steering column don't cause strain on the wiring bundles, which over time could cause wires to pull loose from their connections.
Jim@HiTek
Have shop, will travel!
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Winnebago Journey, '02
Cat 330HP Diesel, 36.5', two slides.
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dlloyd
Narrows, VA
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I wrapped the air pressure buzzer with plastic tape to attenuate the sound. Did not want to completely eliminate it. It is not so loud now.
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Roadster20
California
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Joined: 06/28/2005
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Excellent. I am not a first time buyer but I sure found it informative. How can I cut and paste to word program to pass to some friends?
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