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 > EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks

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RambleOnNW

Pacific Northwest

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Posted: 01/17/23 02:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:



Yep. Europe will be on the cutting edge of this out of necessity. For smaller vehicles electric is nice because you can fuel at home in your driveway. And it’s relatively cheap compared to gas. Hydrogen is pricey. And the amount of solar homes is growing really fast so much of your fuel comes from your roof.

It will be fun to watch.


Electric works well for some and your compact RV setup is cool. Ignoring the fact that our 200A panel is full with no room for another 240 volt breaker (yes we have solar) and 120 volt charging may be too slow, we have been known to do 450 mile one-day drives into winter storm warnings to ski areas. Hydrogen FCEVs don’t have range loss in cold weather unlike BEVs and create waste heat for cabin heating. I couldn’t see doing that drive in a BEV. So having clean vehicle choice is good.

* This post was edited 01/17/23 02:44pm by RambleOnNW *


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pianotuna

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Posted: 01/17/23 02:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

map40,

South Africa has been having problems for about ten years.

We need to wake up and be proactive.

The area of the city I live in has old tired infrastructure. There have been at least 6 outages in the last 12 months. So far they are merely annoying. But I am considering getting a battery and using my back up psw inverter.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Boon Docker

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Posted: 01/17/23 02:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

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time2roll

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Posted: 01/17/23 02:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Michelle.S wrote:

That's OK, just read that Montana plans to BAN EV sales by 2035
I think you mean "Wyoming" to placate the oil and other FF energy business leaders there. Maybe they should ban all vehicles that get over 15 mpg? I mean at least an EV can run on Wyoming coal fired electricity. Lots of wind power in WY too... how does that fit into this?

https://www.msn.com/wyoming-lawmakers-pu........ctric-car-ban-and-to-limit-sales-by-2035


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Boon Docker

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Posted: 01/17/23 02:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

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Reisender

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Posted: 01/17/23 02:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RambleOnNW wrote:

Reisender wrote:



Yep. Europe will be on the cutting edge of this out of necessity. For smaller vehicles electric is nice because you can fuel at home in your driveway. And it’s relatively cheap compared to gas. Hydrogen is pricey. And the amount of solar homes is growing really fast so much of your fuel comes from your roof.

It will be fun to watch.


Electric works well for some and your compact RV setup is cool. Ignoring the fact that our 200A panel is full with no room for another 240 volt breaker (yes we have solar) and 120 volt charging may be too slow, we have been known to do 450 mile one-day drives into winter storm warnings to ski areas. I couldn’t see doing that in a BEV. So choice is good.


Yah. Choice is excellent.

If you ever want to go the BEV route you can always just go the load share device route. They are pretty popular up here on the homes with 100 amp panels. It essentially loads shares a 30, 40 or 50 amp 240 out breaker from something like a stove, or dryer, or hot tub or whatever. The sharing is user determined by time, or use or whatever. Eg your dryer circuit becomes your EV charge circuit between 1 and 6 in the morning.

We have a 100 amp panel but fortunately we have a gas furnace so a 32 amp EVSE was possible without the load share thingy.

We occasionally do a 940 kilometre (ish) road trip in winter. Hasn’t been an issue for us. But of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on the routes you travel. We are fortunate that way.


Cheers.

* This post was edited 01/17/23 02:53pm by Reisender *

Huntindog

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Posted: 01/17/23 03:41pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RambleOnNW wrote:

Groover wrote:

RambleOnNW wrote:

Groover wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

Grover I'm all for nuclear power, if you can tell me how and where to safely store the waste. Until that happens I'm anti nuclear.


I believe that there are plenty of good options for storage.


That is pretty naive.
Fact is no country anywhere in the world has a long term disposal site In operation.
No one wants high-level nuclear waste in their backyard.
So nuclear waste sits at open and closed nuclear plants, a huge security risk.
Look at the radioactive half lives of the high-level waste components:

Technetium-99 211,000 years
Tin-126 230,000 years
Selenium-79 327,000 years
Zirconium-93. 1,530,000 years
Caesium-135. 2,300,000 years
Palladium-107. 6,500,000 years
Iodine-129. 15,700,000 years


If we continue on our current path how long do we have before climate change kills us all? The climate change activists seem to think it will be before the natural deaths of my children. How do you compare potential deaths 15,000 years out to sure deaths within the lifetimes of your children? Or, are you saying that climate change isn't really all that bad?

Keep in mind that we probably only need to buy another 50 years or so before fusion is viable and fusion doesn't make those types of waste.

I still believe that if we can get past the NIMBY attitude there are solutions to nuclear storage that will either outlast our civilization or until even better solutions will be found.

I know what the problems are, I want to hear solutions.


Nuclear is a dead end. However states rights and all that so if the SE US wants to add to their nuclear plant collection and dispose of the waste there feel free.

Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, and green hydrogen can cover all the needs of the US. A 100 x 100 mile solar array and converted to green hydrogen and piped to power plants around the US can produce all the electricity needed. Use your engineer math skills, I did.

A 100 x 200 mile solar array can replace all oil usage in the US. Green hydrogen + CO2 can produce any fossil fuel. Green hydrogen can be stored in salt domes just like oil & gas.
In fact in Delta Utah they are working on just that, a green hydrogen plant with storage in 2 salt dome caverns, room for 300 GWh of storage. And room for 98 more caverns. Compared to the US installed base of utility lithium batteries of 2 GWh. Delta plant will run a mix of natural gas and hydrogen initially in their power plant, going to 100% hydrogen by 2045.

SoCalGas is working on mixing hydrogen with natural gas then extracting pure hydrogen from the mix with a membrane. That would make for easy hydrogen distribution to gas stations. SoCalGas is also going to test a hydrogen fuel cell F-550 from Ford.

Check out this Hyundai Nexo hydrogen with 380 mile range and 5 minute 100% refueling:

[image]


I think your figures are wildly optimistic.
I am in Phoenix where sunshine is abundant. Probably half my neighborhoods roofs are covered with solar panels. I have yet to speak to a single person that doesn't still buy electricity from APS. You just cannot make enough on your roof to power your home. The solar systems help reduce the amount one must buy but does not eliminate it



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blt2ski

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Posted: 01/17/23 04:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntingdog,

Even HERE in the cloudy rainy Seattle area. The few I know that have roof top solar, figure they've paid for the system in savings 3-5 yrs down the road. Use less of the power grid power. Maybe saving a salmon or two or three. Probably not......

The question I would have for your neighbors, is what % savings are they seeing? Yrs before an ROI hits pocket book? No one that I know with a roof top solar expects a full "I'm off the grid" from solar. On some days in summer, they do produce more than the use. I'm having personally a hard time seeing the bad part of residential solar.

It will help. Solve the WHOLE problem being discussed? NO! Every bit helps

Marty


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RambleOnNW

Pacific Northwest

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Posted: 01/17/23 04:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

APS in Phoenix pays less than retail for excess solar. So customers have to pay more per kWh at night than they receive per kWh when the solar is generating.

map40

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Posted: 01/17/23 04:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RambleOnNW wrote:

map40 wrote:

Let's get back to the thread before this goes political and the moderators end up having to close this out. No state will ban EVs and although EVs will grow in the market, they won't displace ICEs.
As far as Hydrogen, the chasllenges are even worse than electricity for massive applications. Although it is fast to transfer to the vehicle, the space required to accomodate a decent amount in a vehicle is significantly more than gas or batteries and the distribution network is non-existent (keep in mind, for EVs the distribution network was already built). Production of hydrogen continues to be a problem unles the latest new technologies work out (like direct-from-sea hydrogen mining).
Hydrogen is today where EVs were 15-20 years ago, after Honda and GM produced their first electric cars. The technology has great potential, but there won't be real market applications for at least a decade.



First of all, the phase-out of ICE vehicles in some states by 2035 still allows for 20% plug-in hybrid ICE vehicles. Also hydrogen vehicles are EVs, Fuel-cell-electric-vehicles (FCEV) and they are included in the EV 2035 mandates.

Hydrogen is far more energy dense than lithium batteries. The Nexo in the previous article has a capacity of 14 lbs of hydrogen which has a gross energy of 250 kWh which allows for a 380 mile range.

The US is planning to fund up to 8 hydrogen hubs. Actually hydrogen is being distributed via liquid hydrogen tankers today and can be used to distribute the hydrogen from the hubs.

US will have to race to keep up with the progress of the rest of the world. Europe is phasing out diesel semis by 2040. Green hydrogen produced fossil-free steel was shipped to Volvo 18 months ago link. Denmark for example is planning a 1 GW, 400 ton per day green hydrogen facility that will fuel 1/3 of their semi trucks. You can view the design here.. Australia goes all-in on green hydrogen link.

I agree with everything you wrote. Those transporting trucks are time-dependent as the hydrogen needs to be maintained well below -250C (-420F aprox) and if it goes up (that it will) the hydrogen boils and it becomes gas and it is wasted.
I drove hydrogen cars, both ICE and fuel-cell. I even build my own hydrogen ICE car (2 of them actually). They are great vehicles and great technology. Hydrogen packs a lot of energy, but it is still being develped. The current vehicles are high efficiency and considered at this point experimental. The latest hydrogen v8 engine that has been advertised as the replacement for the gas v8 would require the trunk and the rear seats to be hydrogen storage to make 250 miles of range. Fuel-cells are the best alternative, but there is a limit of how much power they can produce.
Again, I believe it has more potential that regular BEVs, but at this point is a matter of time, we are ways away.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying is bad, on the contrary, I believe in the long run it might be better than electric for heady and long distance applications even replacing gas and diesel; but it is still at least 15 years away until is in the mainstream market.


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