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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
did they offer a deicent price. personaly if it was me there wouldn't be a WFCO in there as soon as I bought it but thats just cuz every trailer I have had that has had one has failed in the first year, some times killing batteries some times not. so the last two I have bought new part of the sale was they swap in a PD converter and havn't had an issue. that way you can also get the exact model you want and just replace the converter section of the panel.
Interesting you asay that. I put the PD9280 up close to the batteries in the old trailer and kept the WFCO in place as a back up which now does nothing when I turn the breaker on.
Price was $54 shipped here (near Wms Lake)
Right now I'm trying to decide between the newer PD9180ALV lithium converter paired with a small inverter or a Victon all in one job with 2000 watt inverter and a 80 amp charger ($1550 Cdn on Amazon)
Whats your thoughts? (We only have a 600 watt inverter in the old trailer)
Thx
Make sure you check the actual watts on Victron Multiplus inverter. They list a 2000 and a 3000. The 3000 is 3000VA which is not 3000 watts but 2400 watt inverter. I think (not sure) the 2000VA is 1600 watt. So double check the specs on Victron's site.
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waexplorer
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01/27/23 02:49pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
I suppose now it's up to you to decide your best solution. If you want a converter go with Progressive Dynamics. If you want charger/converter/inverter go with Victron. The choice is yours. At this point with your current charger your lithiums are charging to about 80% with non lithium charger. Of course MY opinions are worth what you paid for them. ;)
Thanks for the help.
I put a PD 9280 in our old trailer and if I go that route it would be the PD 9180 ALV.
Victron Smart Shunt is on my list for sure and on the fence weather to go separate charger and inverter or an 'all in one' Victron.
The PD and a smaller inverter would be cheaper.
Advantage to Victron is less wiring, fuses etc. Once you add all the supporting mods to separate components your right there at Victron price.
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waexplorer
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01/26/23 12:05pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Ok Fisherguy, from an earlier post I saw you have volt/amp guage. If you can run your batteries down 30-50% SOC then you can monitor recharge amps and volts. IF your charger is charging at 14.4-14.6 volts with 50-60 amps, more than likely that's a lithium profile. IF your readings are more like 13.6-13.8 with lower amps, that's a FLA curve. Some Flooded curves will start over 14 volts and drop after an hour or so. Lithium will hold over 14 volts for as long as it takes to recover SOC. Depending on how many amp hours it needs to put back in the batteries. Most lithium battery makers use prismatic cells @3.2 volts. 3.2x4=12.8 volts. MAX charge per cell is 3.65 and 3.65x4=14.6. Lithium charge curves stay flat for most of the charge cycly then ramp up voltage sharply at the end. This is not charging voltage, this is state of charge voltage. The BMS is should be a 50 or 100 amp which is what charge/discharge current you can run through it. I wouldn't replace anything until you have an idea of your WFCO charge curves/amps etc. Run through a few charge/discharge cycles and see if you actually need more than what's there. And you can also do this using the Honda generator as well. Also as the batteries get closer to 100% SOC the charging amps will drop. Aso, the batteries BMS will stop the charge cycle when the batteries are full and cell balancing will begin. Lithium battery cells don't like too much variation between cells.
Thanks.
Plugged it in with batteries at 46%, got 27.5 amps at 13.6 volts.
I've since heard back from WFCO who told me the previous owner didn't install the 12V circuit board that has the 'lithium switch' on it so I won't get 14.6V. They offered to sell me the DC board.
I suppose now it's up to you to decide your best solution. If you want a converter go with Progressive Dynamics. If you want charger/converter/inverter go with Victron. The choice is yours. At this point with your current charger your lithiums are charging to about 80% with non lithium charger. Of course MY opinions are worth what you paid for them. ;)
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waexplorer
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01/26/23 11:26am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Buy a GOOD quality inverter/charger/automatic transfer switch. Remove the converter and wire the DC fuse panel directly to the house battery bank (using a large fuse close the the battery bank).
Wire the shore power cable directly to the inlet of the inverter. Wire the outlet of the inverter to your AC breaker panel.
DONE !
Theoldwizardone, Yes that is exactly my plan. All in one unit, the Victron Multiplus and Renogy have that capability. Victron has the advatage because all their stuff can be monitored both locally and globally. My plan is Victron Multiplus inverter charger, cerbo gx, smart shunt. Renogy doesn't have a "smart" shunt yet and their inverter charger doesn't connect to their Renogy one M1. Maybe in the future. And yes, the Victron Multiplus charge current is programmable.
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waexplorer
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01/26/23 07:12am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
..
Apologies, I quoted you but wasn’t questioning your response.
It was in reference to the OP who is planning to idk, stack converters.
And furthermore he doesn’t even know if his current converter is doing the job or not.
Stack converters?
We've had this trailer a whole 2 weeks and it's the middle of winter here so excuse me if I don't have any 'real world' experience with it yet and am looking for advice!
I said I'd probly leave the WFCO in place as a back up on it's own breaker and add another charger up closer to the batteries.
Is that OK with you?
Ok Fisherguy, from an earlier post I saw you have volt/amp guage. If you can run your batteries down 30-50% SOC then you can monitor recharge amps and volts. IF your charger is charging at 14.4-14.6 volts with 50-60 amps, more than likely that's a lithium profile. IF your readings are more like 13.6-13.8 with lower amps, that's a FLA curve. Some Flooded curves will start over 14 volts and drop after an hour or so. Lithium will hold over 14 volts for as long as it takes to recover SOC. Depending on how many amp hours it needs to put back in the batteries. Most lithium battery makers use prismatic cells @3.2 volts. 3.2x4=12.8 volts. MAX charge per cell is 3.65 and 3.65x4=14.6. Lithium charge curves stay flat for most of the charge cycly then ramp up voltage sharply at the end. This is not charging voltage, this is state of charge voltage. The BMS is should be a 50 or 100 amp which is what charge/discharge current you can run through it. I wouldn't replace anything until you have an idea of your WFCO charge curves/amps etc. Run through a few charge/discharge cycles and see if you actually need more than what's there. And you can also do this using the Honda generator as well. Also as the batteries get closer to 100% SOC the charging amps will drop. Aso, the batteries BMS will stop the charge cycle when the batteries are full and cell balancing will begin. Lithium battery cells don't like too much variation between cells.
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waexplorer
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01/26/23 06:45am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
I have a "crappy" WFCO 68100. It's 11 years old. I have no idea if it goes into bulk mode.
Is that bad?Have you ever pushed the button?
I have pushed the button to go back to fast charge when my batteries were still low after it stops fast charging in about an hour when were boondocking and using the generator. Mostly I let it do it's thing. The pendant flashes differently for each mode.
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waexplorer
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01/18/23 07:46pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
I have a "crappy" WFCO 68100. It's 11 years old. I have no idea if it goes into bulk mode.
Is that bad?
Amazon shows it being a 100 amp three stage converter. The only way to know if it's reaching bulk or float mode is with a battery monitor that measures amps as well as voltage. My wall mount battery gauge on my trailer will show dead when dead, but as soon as start to charge batteries they show full because it's just a volt gauge. I don't think what you have is junk, but I do prefer Progressive Dynamics. That's what I've used in two converter changes and plan on putting in my new to me travel trailer. The charge wizard pendant shows what mode your in and you can force it into any mode.
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waexplorer
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01/18/23 04:54pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
If your charging amps are above 40 amps I'd say that's ok. Most lithium batteries have BMS's that are 50 amp or 100 amp charge/discharge capable. 55 watts is the max system output including lights, accessories etc. Whatever is left is for charging. If you're not having issues I wouldn't change it yet. You want charge voltage around 14.4 for lithium. If it's 13.6 or so that is for flooded lead acid. Lithium batteries don't have float mode. There are several good youtube videos show lithium charge and discharge curves. Do you have the Zamp 30 amp solar controller above the bed like mine? Make sure it is set to lithium also.
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waexplorer
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01/18/23 04:20pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Without a battery shunt like Renogy or Victron you'll never know what your charge rate is. Or the real state of charge of the batteries. Unless maybe your batteries are bluetooth themselves. I have a 2018 ORV Creekside with the old non lithium 8955. With a Renogy shunt I only get about 5 amps max charging current into two 12 volt flooded batteries. Drooling over all the Victron stuff and lithium batteries currently. I do have one 180 watt solar panel that came on the trailer (Zamp). It has capacity for two more.
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waexplorer
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01/18/23 03:55pm |
Tech Issues
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