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Forum
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RE: Tesla delivers there first semi
"its cargo carrying capacity compared to a diesel semi remains unknown to the public."
That's grrrrrreat!
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Pbutler97
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12/03/22 10:10am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Interesting video on the Cybertruck design & designer
This vehicle was not designed to be a working truck. In the event of crash I wonder what the body repair cost's will compare traditional working truck
I imagine the world will stop rotating and spin off into another galaxy killing everyone? At least that was going to happen a few years back when Ford announced they were going to make body panels from aluminum. It was the end of the world and if you bought one and had a fender bender it was going to cost you ten fold more, enough so to put the insurance companies out of business lol.
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Pbutler97
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12/03/22 06:28am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: You tube Fulltimers getting squeezed
Ok. I sure would like to see a regulation by some government entity be it local, state, federal where that certification is required.
OK, just to randomly pick one, Nebraska. Clicky. Which actually says it’s not even legal to ‘sell, or display for sale’ an RV that doesn’t meet standards under NFPA 1192.
Ok, you found one, I stand corrected. Even though it appears to specifically apply to dealers and dealerships, and does not address anything regarding insurance or campgrounds/parks.
When Joe Nebraska goes to Ohio and buys an RV are Nebraska RV goons waiting for him at the border? I doubt it. I think Joe goes home, buys insurance if he wants or needs it and proceeds to go camping without hassle, all in Nebraska.
I wonder what happens when someone trades in something that does not have an RVDIA compliance sticker or was built by one of the 2% of manufacturers that are not members of RVIA? 2% is a small number, but maybe not so small when you condisder that between Thor, Forest River, and Winnebago they have @ 95% market share.
How about providing a list of all the states that have such regulation? Frankly I don't have time to research it nor do I really care, but I bet it's a small minority. A small minority like campgrounds or parks such as the single one in Florida you listed, that at least by your claim bar RV's without RVIA decals. I have never heard of and will never visit Jetty Park wherever it is. I am sure there are others but I suspect they use that as a tool to eject those they don't want there to begin with.
I am looking forward to being questioned by a state or ACOE park ranger next year about my certification status even though it's never happened in 25 years of camping.
Now, back to the real world, where no one worries about if their RV has a 2" high oval sticker certified by a trade group. BTW, that would be like having the Carpenters District Council doing the structural framing inspections on your new home. Good luck.
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Pbutler97
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12/03/22 02:29am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: You tube Fulltimers getting squeezed
The big deal is getting the lousy thing titled as a motorhome and getting insured. There is basically only one outfit that will insure a skoolie. A few others will but they often get the policies cancelled at some point (usually at the worst time).
…….
As for long term winter parking, try mobile home parks. And a lot of private campgrounds/rv/mh parks do not want a skoolie in their parks for long term stays.
I suspect both of those issues are because of the same issue, you touched on it in your post, unless these units are built to, and certified as complying with required standards, it’s usually illegal to insure them or allow them in a park.
What required standards? DOT standards? State Motor vehicle standards?
If you're referring to this,
https://i.imgur.com/prx9uvRl.jpg
It's basically self certification. 1 out of a 1000 might see an inspection by the RVIA, and thats probably a low total number, probably more like 1 in 10000. Its a joke. Ask any buyer who discovered crushed HVAC ducts filled with debris, leaking pex fittings on supply lines or drain connections left loose, or bad wiring or better yet or wires pinched between frame and floor.
Where are these parks that are not allowing RV's/Campers in without someone approving some imaginary standard? Do they have a standard officer at the front gate?
Self-certification is a joke?
Don’t tell pilots, architects, engineers, lawyers or doctors that, all professions with ‘self-certification’ of very strict regulations.
Next time you open the door to get in your vehicle pause for a moment and look down at the white label that says the manufacturer ‘self-certifies’ that it complies with the FMVSS.
Is it legally required? You betcha! Does anyone stop you to check it’s there? Not very likely.
But to answer your question, yes, read that label, it clearly says the unit it’s affixed to conforms to certain life safety standards. In most cases the requirement for a certified unit is not the park, but the States life safety requirements. Almost every State has these requirements.
I can point you however one particular park where it is absolutely both in their written policies, and enforced as such, I know because I watched someone get turfed because of it.
Jetty Park at Cape Canaveral Florida. Clicky, clicky.
Read item 24.4.
Ok. I sure would like to see a regulation by some government entity be it local, state, federal where that certification is required.
The RVIA is a trade group where the folks doing the spot inspections, 2000 per year per the RVIA, out of 500,000+ or so RV's built, are basically paid by the Industry they're inspecting. BTW, 2000 of 500,000 is @ 0.4% of all units produced. That should make you all warm and fuzzy. It goes a long way to explain why a new RV might have an electrical short where a wire was pinched in the build, the plumbing leaks, and the heat ducts are crushed or blocked with debris and rubbish. But it's indeed certified.
I've been to a lot of different RV parks and campgrounds over 25 years and have yet to have anyone ask or check if my RV was certified. I've also never seen anyone refused a campsite or ejected for lack of one either. I bought trailers in the past that did not even come with that decal certifying an imaginary inspection and requirement.
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Pbutler97
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12/01/22 08:42am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: You tube Fulltimers getting squeezed
The big deal is getting the lousy thing titled as a motorhome and getting insured. There is basically only one outfit that will insure a skoolie. A few others will but they often get the policies cancelled at some point (usually at the worst time).
…….
As for long term winter parking, try mobile home parks. And a lot of private campgrounds/rv/mh parks do not want a skoolie in their parks for long term stays.
I suspect both of those issues are because of the same issue, you touched on it in your post, unless these units are built to, and certified as complying with required standards, it’s usually illegal to insure them or allow them in a park.
What required standards? DOT standards? State Motor vehicle standards?
If you're referring to this,
https://i.imgur.com/prx9uvRl.jpg
It's basically self certification. 1 out of a 1000 might see an inspection by the RVIA, and thats probably a low total number, probably more like 1 in 10000. Its a joke. Ask any buyer who discovered crushed HVAC ducts filled with debris, leaking pex fittings on supply lines or drain connections left loose, or bad wiring or better yet or wires pinched between frame and floor.
Where are these parks that are not allowing RV's/Campers in without someone approving some imaginary standard? Do they have a standard officer at the front gate?
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Pbutler97
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11/30/22 11:43pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Truck starts on its own
Found a thread with this quoted from a 2020 model manuel:
"AFTER-RUN SYSTEM (HD Model)
HD models are equipped with an engine cooling feature that may be required to run after a heavy towing event. The After-Run System will keep the engine running, or may restart the engine, for 10–15 minutes to ensure the engine and related components are properly cooled. See Driving and Operating in your Duramax Diesel Manual."
And
Intended Vehicle Use: After a Heavy Towing Event
If equipped, when the vehicle is turned off after towing heavy loads, the system may automatically restart the engine. A chime will sound and DIC messages will display. The engine will automatically turn off after 10–15 minutes of run time or if enough cooling has occurred.
If the DIC messages display after the vehicle has been stopped and placed in P (Park) with the engine still running, remain in the vehicle with the engine running until these messages no longer display. It may take up to 15 minutes of idling. Do not park the vehicle in an enclosed area if the messages display.
If the system determines that the engine should be restarted and the ignition is turned off, the engine will turn off and then automatically restart. If the engine is restarted, DIC messages display and chimes will sound. The vehicle cannot be shifted out of P (Park) unless the feature is overridden.
Never leave occupants in the vehicle, and always take the keys and lock the doors if you must leave the vehicle idling. Some local laws prohibit a vehicle from idling unattended. Always remain with the vehicle until it automatically turns off. This could take up to 15 minutes.
If the system determines that the vehicle was not allowed to restart, or if a condition such as an open hood has been detected, then DIC messages display and a chime will sound. To help with system performance, either restart the engine, or if the engine is not running and the hood can be safely opened after one minute, open the hood to allow cooling.
If the system has automatically restarted the engine, the vehicle cannot move until cooling has completed and the engine automatically turns off. Overriding this feature will allow normal vehicle operation. To override, start the vehicle as you would normally. Then either drive the vehicle as normal or turn off the ignition if you must exit the vehicle. Opening the hood will prevent the restart or will turn the engine off when this feature is active.
Mayne his truck left his garage without him knowing on its own, went out and towed a large excavator up a 10 mile long 10% grade, then returned, garaged itself, and decided it needed a cool down?
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Pbutler97
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11/30/22 02:54pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Fun Town dealership
For those that believe what Larry Cad stated. WHY WOULD YOU BUY AND SUPPORT WHAT YOU PERCEIVE AS AN INDUSTRY FULL OF CROOKS??????????????????????????????????????? Doug
It's not about supporting anything. If you want an RV you have two choices. You go to a dealer or build your own. That is unless you want one of the niche smaller towable models where the builder sells direct of a high end class A or something. Some of the stuff I've been handed in a new RV bordered on criminal, like the terminals not tightened on the wall mounted power connector that arced and nearly caught on fire. How about Keystone RV denying a warranty claim on a two month old trailer where the entire corner pulled open stating it was caused by overloading and the poor dealer not willing to go to bat for the buyer? Yes your industry has a good amount of what some would consider CROOKS associated with it.
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Pbutler97
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11/30/22 09:54am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Fun Town dealership
As a general rule, the vast majority of RVs built are full of broken, misaligned, missing, and poorly installed parts. This includes inside and outside the RV. YOU are responsible for making certain EVERYTHING is done correctly. Inspect with a fine tooth comb. Look every where. Don't believe a word they say about quality.
As a general rule, ALL RV dealers are in business for ONE THING, and that is to make as much money as possible, while selling you any particular RV for as much as possible through what ever means they can use. They act nice, but they are not nice. It is up to you to negotiate by any means possible, to get the best deal possible. You can use any means available to you, including the same methods they use.
As a general rule, buying an RV is not a fun or easy project. Wear steel toes shoes, flack vest, ear plugs, and any other protective gear you can find. If the purchase is easy, you got screwed. If everything works perfectly, and you love your new purchase, breath a sigh of relief, you are one of the lucky few.
As a general rule, when you drive off the lot, you are forgotten. Don't expect anyone there to remember you, or go out of their way to do you any favors.
As a general rule, there is NO DEALER in business that will stand behind any RV they sell.
As a general rule, there is NO DEALER that will perform repairs under warranty, and will find ways to charge you anyway.
These are some of the general rules. Not all dealers are this bad, but most are.
ca·ve·at emp·tor
the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.
Others can feel free to comment.
Change DEALER to RV OWNER. Same thing could be said. I have been involved in the RV business for 50 years. Started out cleaning RV plants after school. Then worked on production line. Then became a RV tech for 43 years. NONE OF WHAT YOU STATED IS TRUE. The vast MINORITY of RV dealers behave as you stated. DEALERS (good dealers) require repeat customers. You cannot stay in business by ignoring your customers. You take your advertising budget and divide by the year total customers you sold too. THAT is how much it costs to get 1 customer on your lot and sell him. Years ago the owner told me that cost was $575. in other words, it cost $575 to land each customer. DON'T TAKE CARE OF THAT CUSTOMER AND YOU SQUANDERED THAT $575. Doug
Ahhhhhh, the poor RV dealer LOL.
My experience is most are as Larry calls it, especially so any of the large chains. Camping World, Campers Inn, General RV, Myers, even RVW.They'll get that $575.00 back and then some with the BS they tack on. They sure seem to be staying in business fine and its a known FACT that after the sale the RV OWNER is forgotten in a New York minute.
I know of a couple mom and pop family owned dealers who might give a ****, but I also know of more than a couple of those who sold out to the chains I mentioned. The poor RV dealers, I hope they don't starve.
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Pbutler97
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11/30/22 03:10am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Goodnight Irene, the party's over.
I own a private campsite where I use my 5th wheel in the summer. I don't leave it there, but rather haul it to a storage unit before heading back to my winter house. I usually stay at an RV Resort for a week or two while I winterize it, empty it out, etc. The last couple years the RV Resort was packed to the gills. This year, it was like a ghost town. It was emptier than I've ever seen it in the last 10 years.
Another person who understands what’s happening…
Must not be part of the left coast club.
Same experience here btw.
We don’t get to camp or vacation much, still in the middle age phase of life, but have been going to the same park(s) and lakes each summer now for about 5-6 years.
FAR less people this summer than in any of the 2017-2020 years, although 2020 was also pretty tame as the Rona hadn’t released its paranoid grip it had on so many peoples brains yet.
This year was traffic seems like normal but far less expensive activities taking place. 2020 was more RVs than 2022 but less people out, in general. And this was/is in WY and MT where life didn’t shut down due to the widespread fear and panic that was present in many other locations.
This year has been all about the dollar. Even with the economy appearing to still be full steam ahead until just the last few months, the start of the recovery from the mistakes of 2020 and 2021 is just beginning. And it won’t be pretty for some. Far worse than the false “unemployment” phase of 2020 where everyone who didn’t “want” to have a job and was looking for an excuse for more free stuff, got it, in bushel baskets….
Now, unlike 2020, there will be actual cutbacks and real unemployment issues which will hit harder than the fabricated ones of a couple years ago.
MOD'S EDIT: Cleaned out some of the political stuff.
"MOD'S EDIT: Cleaned out some of the political stuff."
Wow, an actual explanation? I'm shocked. Thanks.
Usually it's an under the radar edit or simply a silent delete of the entire post.
I've belonged to a fair number of forums and have never seen the type of moderation that happens here, where posts vanish into thin air with no apparent violation of anything. I'm quite sure a lot get deleted by some as it goes against their personal opinions and beliefs.
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Pbutler97
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11/28/22 10:05am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Goodnight Irene, the party's over.
"The overall RV dealer sentiment score in June was 26 out of 100, down 54% from the score in April when dealers rated the current industry market condition at 57. The June score is the lowest level since 2009.
When dealers looked out 3 to 5 years, the score rose to 47. That was up 8 points from the 39 score in April, but still showed a negative outlook. It’s only the second time the 3- to 5-year outlook has been negative since the index began in 2006."
Link
That was in June before the the 40+% drop in shipments over the last 4 months.
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Pbutler97
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11/28/22 02:18am |
General RVing Issues
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RE: 2020 with stain above awning
It also looks like there are 3 places in the insert trim of the gutter where its spline is pulling out of the channel.
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Pbutler97
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11/28/22 01:46am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Does RV.net have a policy forbidding the discussion of EVs?
My donning a blindfold isn't going to help the thousands upon thousands of rv.net members have a good forum.
Thousands upon thousands of members? Ok LOL.
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Pbutler97
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11/27/22 07:38am |
Forum Posting Help and Support
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RE: Ford recall issues
There’s a windshield wiper recall?
What’s it do? Fly off and spear someone next to you on a motorcycle at 80mph?
Wiper motor. Probably sourced them from the same supplier Lippert gets their slideout motors from lol.
And cracking injectors that give the engine a gas bath.
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Pbutler97
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11/26/22 02:29pm |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: Washer/dryers
We are planning on buying a washer and dryer. Where do you recommend we get it?
should we have the dealer install it or can someone else do it?
Have the dealer install it and roll it into the RV cost so you can get out of paying sales tax on that too? May as well go for all you can get lol.
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Pbutler97
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11/25/22 07:20am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Montana LLC to save on sales tax
We are getting ready to buy a new RV we’re wondering if any of you have experience forming a Montana LLC to avoid sales tax. We live in Texas and we understand the state of Texas is not clamping down on such restrictions whereas states like California pretty much will not allow you to do it. My question is how hard is it to do? How long did it take you to get it ready? And is it worth the expense and trouble?
Thanks for the help!
At one time LLCs were a common means to avoid sales tax.
HOWEVER - states want their revenue, and began to (legally) pursue folks who were not paying sales tax to the state where they resided.
YES - it was often litigated. Do your homework.
Honest MT law firms will tell you two things:
1. They will *not* represent you in a state other than Montana.
2. They will suggest you become a legal resident of a state with less (or no) sales tax than where you currently reside - (no LLC necessary).
Of course they will set up an LLC for you....for a fee.
When stopped by an LEO, expect to explain why your DL is from a different state than the plates on your RV. Why isn't the owner of the LLC a resident? (Good luck!).
Suggest you look into South Dakota - plan to have both your DL and RV registration from SD......and SD *does* charge sales tax.
Bottom line: There's no free lunch!
:R
~
Sounds like it borders on tax fraud? Cross your fingers maybe?
Probably not a good question to ask on a public forum by an OP that appears to use his real name in his handle and profile lol?
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Pbutler97
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11/25/22 03:44am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: Truck starts on its own
How about a neighbor kid who stuffed some coin cell batteries up his nose after downing an energy drink, while wearing a tinfoil hat?
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Pbutler97
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11/25/22 03:14am |
Tow Vehicles
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RE: VanLeigh by Tiffin Fifth wheel
... RVs are a by product of the main business, making money.Wow, who'd a thunk. News flash: if they don't make money, they won't be making trailers very long.
Well no sh*t Sherlock. The point was they care way more about making money than than they do about the problems, issues, and just plain **** workmanship that came with the POS RV they suckered you into buying, and then they forgot about you in microseconds after you signed the sales agreement.
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Pbutler97
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11/24/22 08:07am |
Fifth-Wheels
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RE: The GEO Method and Space Heaters - Thoughts?
Why not provide an example of something such as a portable appliance or something else, that an RV owner is going to have or bring to the campground, that has a 20 amp male plug and requires 20 amps.
Well, my camper AC has a 20 AMP plug.
But maybe I should of said FD arson or insurance company investigator. With the drop in price of RVs some people will have trouble making payments. Any time there are lots of people upside down on loans, there starts to be problems with overheated insurance policies.
LOL....Ok......... Happy Thanksgiving
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Pbutler97
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11/24/22 08:02am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: The GEO Method and Space Heaters - Thoughts?
that's what I have used however do NOT install the 20A outlet on a 15A circuit!!!!!! against code, use the 15A outlet, you don't want to be able to try to run something with a 20A plug on a 15A circuit.
Who catches you for that, the RV code police that patrol campgrounds?
Maybe the fire department?
Why do you think the regulations are written? I'm sure I have not followed all in upgrades on my stuff, but if I know about the regulation on wiring, I follow it.
IIRC, my NEC bible is about 20 years old, so maybe some of my upgrades might not be right for a house I rented out, but legal for the 1 I live in.
Why not provide an example of something such as a portable appliance or something else, that an RV owner is going to have or bring to the campground, that has a 20 amp male plug and requires 20 amps.
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Pbutler97
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11/24/22 06:03am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: VanLeigh by Tiffin Fifth wheel
Remember Thor now owns Tiffin. Their quality and QC will depend on how much policy Thor dictates.
Ken
Thor has NEVER acquired a brand and not cheapened it where quality and construction is concerned, including Airstream. RVs are a by product of the main business, making money.
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Pbutler97
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11/24/22 01:36am |
Fifth-Wheels
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