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RE: Water works in bathroom, but Kitchen sink is just a trickle
Hey John...very good pics of the WH bypass system, and the check valve, that is a common problem, causing WH issues on certain models. IMO, using that cheap plastic valve, is just another low quality savings for the manufacturer.
One poster may have misunderstood, but I don't see "misinformation".
Those kitchen aerator screens plug easily, especially if no water filter is used. I sure like having an OEM whole house filter system!
Jerry
Hi Jerry,
Thanks,
I fully agree with you, the plastic poppet check valves are a low cost setup with quality that does not last. While the failure rate is lower on newer campers, the older the camper gets the worse they can be. Any time I pull a water heater out on a camper restoration I'm doing, the check valve is removed and the bypass setup converted to a two, 3 way valve setup by pass.
Thanks again
John
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JBarca
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03/08/23 09:47pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Water works in bathroom, but Kitchen sink is just a trickle
JBarca - A bypass system is used to bypass the water heater so you can run anti-freeze through all the lines (including the hot water lines) without getting anti-freeze in the heater.
Here are three different configurations of a water heater bypass.
All three allow water to pass through the hot water plumbing while bypassing the water heater.
Boon Docker,
Sorry, you missed my point. I agree with what is said above. A water heater with a "working bypass system" will allow water to pass to the hot water piping. I think we both agree with this. The key to this is "working". We have no idea if his bypass is working, what type, or if he set it correctly.
The OP is new to campers. His post started as water flows as a trickle. Then this,
Ok thanks, when I unscrewed the aerator that improved the flow. I still don't have hot water though. It is supposed to be an electric HW heater. I checked all of the circuit breakers and they are fine. Outside water valve under the trailer is closed.
He may not know how all the bypasses work, how they fail, or how to set them. He said there was no hot water, and cleaning the aerator improved flow, but he never clarified if water was fully flowing, half flowing, or now a big trickle on the hot side or cold. Once that is clarified, then one can start figuring out why it is not hot. If water (cold or hot), is not leaving the heater on full flow, that is a problem to sort out first. I asked him to clarify.
I explained my position on my thought process, with pictures even, yet you may still seem to feel I have posted "Misinformation" in bold letters, no less, without asking for clarification. How are you reading all I have posted as "misinformation"?
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JBarca
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03/06/23 07:37pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Water works in bathroom, but Kitchen sink is just a trickle
Ok, turns out it is a propane-only HW heater. Problem solved. thx.
Thanks for reporting back. Glad you have it sorted out. At first, I thought you might have misread LP only, but after checking, yup, you may be right. I had to look this up as I cannot believe they still do this.
On page 7 of the 2019 Coleman Lantern brochure, it states as standard equipment, "6-gallon gas DSI water heater with bypass kit."
Select 2019, then Coleman Lantern
https://www.dutchmen.com/digital-brochure-download
The RV industry continues to amaze me sometimes. Here in 2019, an RV manufacturer installed an LP-only water heater. :h This was common in the '80s, as few electric element options existed; even DSI was the "new thing". I would have thought by 2019; a combo LP/electric heater would be a standard thing. I guess not, live and learn.
Happy camping this season with you new to your camper. Fun times ahead! :C
John
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JBarca
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03/06/23 07:10pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Water works in bathroom, but Kitchen sink is just a trickle
Ok thanks, when I unscrewed the aerator that improved the flow. I still don't have hot water though. It is supposed to be an electric HW heater. I checked all of the circuit breakers and they are fine. Outside water valve under the trailer is closed.
Hi,
A few things to confirm and then look for,
1. Confirm this, at any faucet in the camper (bath, shower, kitchen, outside shower etc) at the hot water faucet "only", does any water come out of any faucet? The water may be cold, but knowing if any water comes out helps pinpoint the issue. Water coming from a hot water faucet (even if cold) means water is getting into and out of the water heater, just it may not be hot, which is a different problem. No water coming out of any faucet points to the bypass valves are not letting water in, or out, OR a check valve on the hot outlet port of the water heater is defective pending the type of bypass setup you have
2. Please let us know the make and model of the heater. We are assuming you have a tank-type heater, but some campers now have tankless heaters, which are different.
Assuming you have water coming out of hot faucets, just not hot, try this:
3. Make sure the circuit breaker in the power converter is ON for the water heater.
4. If you have an Atwood or Suburban tank-type water heater, they normally have an LP gas mode. Does the LP gas mode work to fire the burner? If the gas side does not fire the burner, the controls can lock out the electric portion. Here is where we need the make/model of the heater to dig deeper.
Make sure there is water in the heater before ANY water heating is started. The electric element can burn out in short order, seconds if there is no water in the heater. If the LP gas mode works, but the electric portion does not, as long as 120 AC power is going to the heater, and the controls are on, the water should heat in about 20 to 30 minutes. The element may be burnt out if 120-volt AC power is getting to the element heater.
The above is sort of generic, we really need to know the heater make and model to help better.
If you do not know how the bypass valves work, post a picture of the back of the heater, and they will tell us how it is piped.
I hope this helps,
John
Reply #1 - Misinformation.
Water will still come out the hot water faucet if the water heater is bypassed.
Hi Boondocker,
Not all campers are created equal. And then there is an interpretation of the meaning. There are at least two types of water heater bypass systems. There may even be more. We do not know which the OP has. My comments came from these two types I often see not knowing what they have.
1. One 3-way valve / one check valve bypass setup. In this setup, there is a 3-way selector valve on the bottom cold inlet to the heater and a check valve only on the hot top discharge port. A bypass pipe connects the selector valve T outlet to the downstream piping of the check valve T. This setup looks like this in general. Different types and brands of valves can be used, pending on the manufacturer.
The yellow arrow points to the Flar-It brand 3-way selector valve on an Atwood water heater.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4854/32070241198_0f7126104f_o.jpg width=640
At the top of the heater on the hot water discharge is a brass outer check valve with a plastic poppet valve stem with an O-ring. You can see the brass fitting here.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4885/44125028880_9f1115d1e7_o.jpg width=640
In this type of bypass setup, a common failure as the camper ages is the check valve. The keeper on the plastic valve stem pops off and lands inside the tank. The spring on the valve stem pops the valve stem out into the hot water piping system. If the plumbing has a hard 90-degree elbow like in the picture above, that valve stem jams into the elbow and will result in greatly to totally restricting the flow to a dribble.
Here is the keeper on the end of the valve stem that can pop off into the tank
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48004656103_5ce66db3a0_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4635/39331405842_8224eab74d_o.jpg width=640
This is the other end of the plastic valve stem that can fly out and jam in a 90-degree elbow
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48004616811_d2d322d20a_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4683/38653260044_7d0eca8c4b_o.jpg width=640
With that valve stem jammed in the elbow, even if the water heater is not bypassed, water is greatly reduced or will only dribble out the hot water faucet.
2. There is also a two-valve bypass setup. In this case, there are two 3-way selector valves on the water heater and no check valve. This setup eliminates the check valve failure, but it can be confusing sometimes to a new owner of this style setup if the top or bottom 3-way valve is not selected correctly. The bottom valve can be in bypass mode, and the top valve still be in the normal operating mode (non-bypass), and no water will flow out of the hot water faucet as the system is only partly bypassed. The combo can be mixed up the other way also, the top in bypass and the bottom not, water sill will not flow to the faucet.
Here is one example of the two, 3-way selector valve set up on the bench when the water heater was being serviced. The brass fittings you see are not check valves; they are brass hex-close nipples.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48004616946_9d7a74f50b_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48004616621_8e16b8f697_o.jpg width=640
I have seen enough plastic plunger check valve failures on the first bypass setup to know "it happens." I stand by my troubleshooting advice; water can be greatly restricted to not flowing out of the hot water faucets regardless, the 2 valve setup could be set wrong, the check valve/ one 3-way valve method could be set to not bypass with the check valve failed and no water flows pending the piping setup. The OP stated, no hot water at the faucet, he just never stated water was flowing even if cold or not flowing, or what the bypass condition exactly was.
If you see an issue with my thought process, please let me know. I learn something new all the time, and I am open-minded to listen.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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03/06/23 06:22pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Water works in bathroom, but Kitchen sink is just a trickle
Ok thanks, when I unscrewed the aerator that improved the flow. I still don't have hot water though. It is supposed to be an electric HW heater. I checked all of the circuit breakers and they are fine. Outside water valve under the trailer is closed.
Hi,
A few things to confirm and then look for,
1. Confirm this, at any faucet in the camper (bath, shower, kitchen, outside shower etc) at the hot water faucet "only", does any water come out of any faucet? The water may be cold, but knowing if any water comes out helps pinpoint the issue. Water coming from a hot water faucet (even if cold) means water is getting into and out of the water heater, just it may not be hot, which is a different problem. No water coming out of any faucet points to the bypass valves are not letting water in, or out, OR a check valve on the hot outlet port of the water heater is defective pending the type of bypass setup you have
2. Please let us know the make and model of the heater. We are assuming you have a tank-type heater, but some campers now have tankless heaters, which are different.
Assuming you have water coming out of hot faucets, just not hot, try this:
3. Make sure the circuit breaker in the power converter is ON for the water heater.
4. If you have an Atwood or Suburban tank-type water heater, they normally have an LP gas mode. Does the LP gas mode work to fire the burner? If the gas side does not fire the burner, the controls can lock out the electric portion. Here is where we need the make/model of the heater to dig deeper.
Make sure there is water in the heater before ANY water heating is started. The electric element can burn out in short order, seconds if there is no water in the heater. If the LP gas mode works, but the electric portion does not, as long as 120 AC power is going to the heater, and the controls are on, the water should heat in about 20 to 30 minutes. The element may be burnt out if 120-volt AC power is getting to the element heater.
The above is sort of generic, we really need to know the heater make and model to help better.
If you do not know how the bypass valves work, post a picture of the back of the heater, and they will tell us how it is piped.
I hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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03/06/23 02:49pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: How much of rise on front of truck acceptable when hitched?
A lot of people loved his posts and no matter if they loved them or not, he never got upset or posted snarky or flaming posts back. Some took offense at his great knowledge and expertise but Ron would answer their flaming posts in a calm, thorough manner and usually shut the flamer down.
He was a huge asset to our forums and his passing was a great loss to many many people. I feel very fortunate to have known him and be able to call him my friend.
Barney
X2 Barney, Ron & I often connected offline on some WD hitch topic, and he would analyze my raw data to help come to a conclusion.
He is missed.
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JBarca
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03/01/23 06:08pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: stairs
I'm not familiar with the Glow steps, but if they store outside, it likely requires a modification of the outside of my RV. And why would I want to try something else when I'm perfectly happy with what I have?
Hi,
I am not trying to talk you out of your Mor-Ryde steps, Mor-Ryde makes good products. I want to show you what the Glow Step is, as FYI, and for those following along.
We had a very good and solidly mounted 3-step fold-out set of Hickey Springs folding steps made in 2003. The mounting frame was bolted to the floor where an outrigger was, and the bottom of the step frame was welded to the main frame rail. Between the floor mount, the main frame rail mount, and the fact the steps themselves were made of rigid steel, they worked well for most of our camping situations.
Our floor plan (rear living area) has the main entrance door at the back. We camp a lot on lakefront campsites that are a downhill back in to get to the site. To level out the camper, the nose of the camper is almost touching the ground, and the back wall is 3 feet off the ground. In this case, I need a 4th step, and I have wrestled with how to deal with uneven ground.
The 4th freestanding step, with four legs, was solid, but the uneven ground required a shim under one or two feet. After a few days of walking on it, the shim wiggles out, and the step is unstable. I came down the steps and almost went tumbling, then a day later, my wife did on that last step. That did it for me; I need to change this before one of us breaks a leg or worse.
The Mor-Ryde step was an option, but in our case, even though the legs could extend to the ground, the long, deeper last step had to be filled with something, and I am back to the same problem. I need a 4th step. Doing a 13 to 15" one-step rise at the bottom is not good coming down. This leads me to Tork-lift, which makes truck camper steps. They have a 4 to 5-foot gap to bridge, and they do it well. They offer a set of steps for 5'ers and TT's.
Here is how mine integrated. This may not work if you do not have the older style fold-out steps or the ability to cut the fender skit on the camper.
The older steps before conversion
https://live.staticflickr.com/804/41460605951_7e6c41d6be_o.jpg width=640
The new Glow Step install. I took out the steps and left the heavy rigid frame in place.
https://live.staticflickr.com/867/41460605081_f3b5b58e47_o.jpg width=640
Install a 4 step Glow Step
https://live.staticflickr.com/885/41460607031_5769144914_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/798/41460606801_081aa9bf83_o.jpg width=640
They have a lever on the side; you have three heights on the top step if you must lower the steps as the camper is way high at the step area. And you can push them in to make them shorter. And there are 2 feet adjusted to the ground.
https://live.staticflickr.com/868/41460607331_55d7fbb101_o.jpg width=640
Here was the campsite that we love to camp at, and it was the last straw to have to do something with the entry steps. This was the summer of 2017.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52719905873_af4250ae95_b.jpg width=640
A closer look at the separate 4th step. You can see how much wood is under the stabilizers to level the camper.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52719841135_6f25efb3f1_b.jpg width=640
Here is the summer of 2018 after the Glow Steps install. To date, this has solved all our 4th step issues, and they are a very solid step with the 2 feet to the ground. This is not a cheap upgrade but worth it for us.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52719683894_2e15247069_b.jpg width=640
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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03/01/23 08:24am |
Tech Issues
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RE: stairs
Sorry, but your cost of OEM versus retail is wrong. Granted, there is a LOWER cost at OEM but the fact remains, that Retail costs are higher for the door fold down. BUT, the OEM for both types will be lower, but the door type is still higher than the standard old style. MOST of the door fold outs have an adjustable bottom leg to meet different uneven patio pads. I have NEVER had a customer complain about the door step type system. Doug
Hi Doug,
Maybe I was misunderstood. I agree that the Solid step may cost more than a good set of older fold-out steps. The price we see at retail or dealer cost differs greatly from at OEM. And you appeared to agree with this.
My main point is labor at the OEM; there is a significant difference at the OEM on labor mounting a Solid step unit (very little labor) compared to an older well-mounted fold-out step. I'm sure you may agree with this.
At the OEM level, profit per unit can be higher selling a camper with a Solid step versus a well-mounted and made older style fold-out step. While the raw material of the step may be higher with the solid step, the offset of labor savings makes it well worth paying more for material than labor.
I'm good with OEM's selling campers to customers who want that style step, but to force it across all floor plans with no other options, and they make more profit by selling it that way, does not sit well. If it is worth more, sell the Solid step as an upgrade. I know that takes more time and inventory on the part of the OEM. Giving the customer options can cause them more loss.
I will also add for the general good of the post, in the last 8 to maybe 12 years; there has been a flood of, in my opinion, very weak fold-out style steps being made. These are not the older style rigid fold-out steps mounted rigidly to the camper. (This stronger set all costs more $$) The same thing invaded the scissors stabilizers with weak, thin metal. I was appalled to see fold-out steps and how the OEM mounted them so weak on new campers. They bend and bounce significantly just walking up them. They are trying to hit a price point on what a new camper buy will bear. Or the OEM is trying to increase profitably. Entry steps should not be one of the places to cut costs that deep.
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JBarca
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03/01/23 07:26am |
Tech Issues
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RE: stairs
The fold up IN the RV type step cost $600
The OLD style fold out steps are $250 to $400. So where and why would some state price as a reason????? The new style are much more stable than regular fold out steps. Doug
One possible reason is labor costs at the OEM level. Labor is often one of the highest manufacturing costs of a product.
For the older style fold-out steps, the higher-end camper RV manufacturers integrated a well-mounted set of steps, not the diving board set of steps, -welded part of the step framework to the main frame rails and bolted them to the floor to reduce the diving board effect and for reduced liability of the step unit breaking away from the camper. Then they had to cut the siding skirt for the steps, and some brands even installed a trim skirt bezel around the opening. With more parts and labor involved, the added cost of the product to produce goes up.
With the new fold-down steps (LCI (solids Step) or Mor-Ryde) on the assembly, line labor is significantly reduced. LCI, which now makes many entry doors, has a slightly shorter screen door to create a larger gap at the bottom with added felt on the bottom to allow for the threshold plate the Solid step uses. To install the solid step on the assembly line, drop the mounting plate over the threshold, shoot 4 to 6 screws in, and they are done—no cutouts in the lower siding or door bezel parts. There is no welding to the frame or bolting of the steps to the bottom of the floor. And they can now even sell a doormat to catch the dirt the steps can leave inside when folding up. Make some more profit.
Marketing and management set the retail selling price for retail versus OEM cost. What we see on retail or even at the dealer cost differs greatly from what the OEM pays.
These are just a few thoughts on how the RV manufacturer can save money on installing a quick attaching set of steps and try turning it into a selling feature. The thought possibly being it's new, it is solid, and thinking it should help sell the camper better. But, it should be a choice as we all do not camp or store the camper the same.
In my case, I upgraded the main entry steps to the Torklift Smart Step-Glow Step system. It is solid, still fits under the same hole as the original Hickery Springs fold-out steps, and deals with more terrain issues in remote campsites. They are very good steps and not cheap. Short of a truck camper, they may never come standard on a TT or 5er; they cost too much. I left the front bedroom doors as the fold-out steps. They are quick and easy for the wife to drop down when we stop along the way and need to get in the camper in the parking lot etc.
John
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JBarca
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02/27/23 05:56pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Atwood 8500 series furnace bench test on high limit switch
Okay thank you. That's what I was afraid of. I did that and nothing happened. Verified 13+ volts to the positive and negative lead. No noise or anything from the furnace. I am going to check all the connections, but it seems like I may be buying a dinosaur board to replace mine.
Atwood had several control vintages of this furnace, the prior version used a thermal timing relay to run the fan and fan delay. The PC board, in this case only ran the gas valve, ignition, and flame sense circuit.
The next generation of controls did away with the timing relay and added the fan control to the PC board, which then controlled that fan and the gas valve, ignition, and flame sense.
Does your furnace have the thermal timing relay?
See the timing relay here; it is on the right end of the blower housing.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49022085107_a06840eb6a_o.jpg width=640
Here is the newer vintage with the fan control on the PC board—no thermal timing relay. A PC wire plug is on the front of the PC board; a blue wire, the T stat run signal, was added and is part of the fan control. The T stat run signal on the older thermal timing relay received the T stat signal.
https://live.staticflickr.com/4695/39690690611_652195ac8d_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4723/39690695511_f3e752d7c6_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/4694/39690694311_f5d977d08e_o.jpg width=640
This PC board has fan control on it. The black relay on the PC board in this pic is for the fan motor (the red wire is the fan motor hot wire, and the blue next to it is incoming 12-volt power for the fan motor). The round coil igniter also has a red wire but different insulation and goes to the electrode.
Some checks, and this assumes you have a 12.5 DC power or higher coming to the furnace.
If yours has the timing relay, they have been known to go bad over time. If you connect the two blue wires within a short period, the blower should run; if the blower will not run, either the motor is bad (less likely) or the thermal timing relay is bad (more likely). Check the fan power wires and see if it is getting power; if there is no power, then the relay is bad.
If you have no timing relay and twist the two blue wires, the fan should run after a few seconds as the PC board controls the fan motor. Check the fan motor power wire coming out of the PC board to see if the board is sending incoming DC voltage to the motor. If the board is sending power, then the motor has issues. If the board is not sending voltage, the board has issues.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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02/25/23 09:47pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Negative and ground wire questions
I'll bring up something to consider.
How long are you planning on keeping the camper?
Do they use salt on the roads in your area in winter?
Is the camper stored outside uncovered most or all of the time?
I restore older campers, mainly the 10 to 20-year-olds range. All of them were not stored inside or had minimal cover when outside. You can learn a lot from an older camper on how things fail.
Frame ground is bad news as a wire conductor as the camper ages when exposed to the elements. The DOT lights use frame ground, the brakes are often set up from the factory using frame ground, the LP pipe, and, yes, battery negative needs to go to frame ground. Corrosion is alive and well in an older camper when stored outside. Aluminum or copper connectors on the wire to the frame are also exposed. This frame ground setup works as a DC conductor when the camper is new. As the camper ages, the corrosion will start making issues.
During a camper restore, I added a DC negative wire to the brakes and the DOT lights to eliminate the frame ground, as the wire connection terminals and the rusted metal connections were all bad. The camper brands I have worked on had the power converter already set up with DC negative with a wire directly to the converter. The weak link, though, was the exposed aluminum terminal block which joined all the DC ground wires at the frame by the battery. That area also gets corrected.
The suggestion is to run your upgraded heavy wire on the DC negative to the power converter if you want to keep the camper for a long time where corrosion conditions exist, as I asked about above.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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02/24/23 10:13pm |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Electric galley slide issues_Slim Rack_2018 Seismic 4212
Okay, so the wife and I purchased a 2018 Jayco Seismic 4212 last year and we noticed right off the bat that our galley slide seemed sluggish and possibly out of alignment.
Well, we used it a lot last year and after some time, it started really struggling to come in at first. Most times, it will come in an inch at a time for a bit, then eventually come in normally.
Now, this has tracks on the side (not a schwintek) and I noticed they had a sticky grease type lube on them. I washed them and put some dry lube on them. I also put grease on the bottom where the rollers are. No change.
Well, we bought a 5 year warranty with this RV and I checked it in with the dealer a month ago. They're telling me the interior gears and motor needs to be replaced.
$5,000.00 and they doubt the warranty company will cover it. They asked me if I greased the gear rails, I told them I used that dry lube, but only after the slide was acting up.
I'm going to get the RV tomorrow, because they need the space and it's going to be a little bit before this gets figured out.
My question is, can the motor and gear wheels be saved? Can I get in there with some cleaning agents and clean the gear teeth enough to save everything, or is it a worthless cause?
I have no idea how I'm going to prove to the warranty company that the damage was done before we bought it.
At this point, I'm hesitant to do anything, I thought lubing the gear teeth was the right thing to do (metal gears usually need lube), but apparently that's not the case and I don't want to make a bad situation worse.
I wish there was a warning sticker there that stated to not use grease on the gear rails. They have warnings for everything else.
Hi,
Your post title stated the words hydraulic, but the blue paraphrased wording the dearer told you, sounds different. The motor and gears seem to point to an electric rack and pinion system.
I tried to see if I could find something about your camper. This manual from Jayco on a 2018 Seismic https://www.jayco.com/manuals/?RvManualSearch%5Byear%5D=2018&RvManualSearch%5Btype%5D=15&RvManualSearch%5Blanguage%5D=en
Has a large section on slides, and you flip to the system you have. Granted it is not uncommon to not have the manual line up with the camper in this kind of detail, but they do not mention any hydraulic slide systems that I saw. It may be they never updated the manual. Where did you get the idea your system was a hydraulic slide drive?
Yes, please post some pictures of the gears on the side and the slide drive system under the camper.
I have not had to deal with/repair the hydraulic slide yet, and on the ones I have seen, the hydraulic cylinder attaches to a gear rack where an elector motor drive (ball screw) would go. But I have worked on many electric drive rack and pinion systems and may be able to help on that part. Maybe we all learn something new here.
Hope this helps.
John
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JBarca
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02/24/23 07:02am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Should I Buy The Dealer's Hitch
Reading on all this hitch talk trying to figure out what we should purchase. For 14 years we towed a 32' Sunny Brook using a Hensley. Like dummies we sold the whole thing as one unit.
Here we are two years later missing camping and starting all over again. We will have a Chevy 2500 and possibly a Forest River Wildwood 31KQBTS rolling in at a total of 36'7" - weight at 8573.
Not as heavy as our previous trailer but 3' longer.
Been out of the game for a long while and not sure whether to dump the money on a ProPride or if other hitches have come along way since 2006 and something else would be just as good.
Any suggestions??
Thanks!
Hi,
I'm showing this trying to be helpful, so you can see what that camper is and how it stacks up against your camping situation.
If this is the trailer you are looking at, https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/travel-trailers-and-fifth-wheels/wildwood/31KQBTS/6897
The Unloaded weight (UVW) is 8,573# which means an empty camper, no battery, and since a spare tire is an option, no spare tire is most likely.
The Cargo capacity (CCC) is listed as 1,292#. I'll add a comment that CCC is low in my view on a 36' 7" long camper with bunks. WOW, you will have to watch the weights, or you will overrun the GVWR easily. You have a lot of space, but the ratings do not allow much cargo capacity. The bunks suggest kids; kids have the stuff to bring too. Trust me; the adults have stuff too...
Adding UVW + CCC = 9,865# GVWR.
The dry empty tongue weight is 905#. When that floor plans loads, the loaded tongue could be 1,200, maybe 1,300#.
You can end up without much issue having close to a 10,000# camper with 12 to 13% loaded tongue weight. The tongue weight to gross vehicle weight ratio is OK, don't go lighter. You do not want to get lighter on the tongue on a camper that long.
In my opinion, you want a WD hitch for a travel trailer of that size. The truck receiver may require it to handle the 1,200 to 1,300# tongue weight. Check the sticker on the receiver; there are 2 ratings. Weight carrying and Weight Distribution. And if you are on the original 2006 GM receiver, have it checked for weld cracks and rust at the pin box weld. You may need a receiver upgrade.
Now to a camper 37 ft long, you did not state your wheelbase. Since you are looking at a bunkhouse, that can mean kids, which may mean a crew cab. The crew cab helps on the wheelbase. The long bed is better than a short bed, but the short bed crew cab can work if the hitch setup is good.
Now the hitch. I have an F350 CC, short bed with the Reese DC, 16% loaded tongue weight, 10K loaded 32 ft camper. The heavy suspension truck and the hitch work well with this combo, but it is not invincible. You are 5 ft longer on lighter truck suspension. From my experience, the Reese DC or the Equal-I-izer WD hitch would be the minimum setup. You get WD and some anti-sway help. When large cross winds come, the odds are favorable that at 37 ft you will find the edge of your truck and either of those two hitches to tame out heavy cross winds, 30 mph plus. You are going to feel it.
Everyone has how close to the edge they want to tow at and have comfortable towing. At 37 ft I would look if I can find an older Pullrite WD hitch or go with the Pro
Pride/Hensley. Pullrite is used to make one of the best towing concepts WD hitches. But I see they no longer even show it on their website. It may be discontinued.
You may want to look hard at the CCC of that trailer you are looking at. Odds are, you will run out of cargo capacity by the weights on that length camper. They likely have the suspension on the camper-sized right at the limit having the truck hold up part of the GVWR. And maybe even the new infamous 4,400# axle setup with 10" brakes. ERRRR. They do not list the tire size or axle ratings. I'm a little more old school. A 10K camper should have 10,000# of running gear on it. And tires rated 20% higher then the heaviest wheel.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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02/22/23 11:06pm |
Towing
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RE: Stuck in yard, ruts. Install driveway? Ideas please.
What is your soil like? That does play a big part in what you can and should do. Here in central OH, we have a good amount of clay mixed into the soil. The day after a hefty rain, anything significant in weight, a camper, a truck etc, running over the lawn or worse bare dirt, will sink out of sight in the muck. Three days later, with the sun shining, that same dirt will be hard as concrete with 1/2" wide cracks in bare dirt.
At our prior Ohio place 30 minute south of our current place, I buried the K2500 Suburban and the camper in the front lawn in the spring, trying to back in and turn around on the lawn. Bad mistake... And it had not even rained the day before. It was just a soft spring Ohio clay lawn.
When we moved to the new place 30 miles north, I ensured the entire barnyard was big enough to turn the camper around in the yard any time of year.
I'm sharing a suggestion not knowing your soil. It will work in the muck we have. Take up the sod on top. Dig out at least 6 to 8" of soil. Fill with #304 or #411 limestone. Both of these grades have fines in them and will pack hard. The top will be slimy until a few rains wash the fines off the top. But after that, it will be solid any time of year. If you want later to make it look pretty, you and put a fine layer of crushed stone on top of your choice. I do not suggest using just #57 crushed stone deep, it moves around a lot. The 304/411's stay put with the fines in between.
For our current place, we dug out 6 to 8" and, in some places 10" to level it out and backfilled it with recycled asphalt. They grind it up off the highways. In my case, I rented a vibratory roller and packed it about every 3" of fill, and built it up. This was the cheapest fill. Come the hot summer months; it will start to reactivate and stick together. The bottom will become hard. I had 500 10-ton truckloads brought in. Yes, it is a big yard. Mine was as they ground it up off the highway, so it had some larger chunks in it. It is not an issue on the bottom layers, but I had to pick up the chucks on the top surfaces. Not a problem, just more work, but for the price, it was worth it. Some sellers of recycled asphalt have a grinder, and they process it before you get it. It costs more, but you do not have to deal with the chucks. You have to pack this and roll it. If not the first year, come summer, it will sink, compact itself, and you end up in ruts to deal with. Pack as they are installing it or right after but you need a really big roller (think road size needing a semi to transport) if you are trying to pack the entire drive on top only.
My driveway was put up in 2012, and it is still in great shape. In this area, recycled asphalt is becoming more popular.
Both of these suggestions are considered a permanent choice. Concrete is great, but it needs the proper base, or it will crack. Nowadays, they can add carbon fiber to the mix and or older wire. Pending the weight of your camper, you may want 6" in place of 4" to help the cracking.
If you are looking for temporary and cheap, and direct, get the 2 x 12"'s out and line them up. It will get old in time dealing with them; they warp, split and move around, but it is quick and cheaper. Been there, and learned that.
There is no real "cheap" solution to a permanent setup. Just options that cost less. As was stated by the other poster, if your area is wet as a normal thing, get underground drainage in first.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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02/19/23 08:49am |
Do It Yourself Modifications and Upgrades (DIY)
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RE: Fridge in freezing weather
Some fridges have a switch that causes the light to stay on for cold weather use.
This thread has some excellent advice.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24160748.cfm
Hi piano,
Your link does not seem to want to fire off. Not sure if it is my setup or not. But it is no go.
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JBarca
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02/17/23 08:39am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Fridge in freezing weather
I keep reading your question. I am unsure what you are asking or why. But I will provide this for an RV absorption fridge.
If the fridge compartment is at 30F and you turn the fridge on, not much will happen as the temp sensor in the fridge compartment is already at or below the setpoint. And as was stated, the freezer will not get any colder either, as it only adds a cooling effect when the fridge compartment calls for cooling. There is no separate control for the freezer; it just comes along for the ride, so to speak, when the fridge compartment requires cooling.
You can try this, it should work. Take an empty milk jug, fill it with warm water from the house, place it in the fridge compartment, and close the door with the fridge on. The heat energy in the jug will start warming the fridge compartment, and in time, the fridge will begin cooling. In your case, the fridge needs a heat load "inside it" to operate.
Also, be careful as if you want to go run the system at much colder temps, you need to deal with that situation. Some block off a portion of the lower outside vent and put an incandescent light bulb warming in the outside cabinet where the cooling coil is, or look for a cold weather kit. Research this out for your brand fridge, assuming you use an absorption fridge.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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02/17/23 06:29am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are you familiar with Duck Coat Roof Coating??
John, I am astonished by your internet sleuthing skills -- yes, my trailer is tiny -- it is a box 12 feet long by 7 feet wide. As soon as I am able (which may be a while), I will climb up on the roof to see what it is made of.
Your write-up of how to waterproof the roof and the siding is just excellent -- so detailed. Have you considered publishing it as a stand-alone post under the DIY forum? I think it would be very valuable to the membership at large -- as matters now stand, it is just a part of my Duck Coat post, which is not going to get very many views by comparison.
Thanks again for your clear and comprehensive comments!
Hi Profdant139,
Thank you for the good words. They humble me.
I will consider creating a post in the DIY forum. I have uploaded many of the pics of the process on my picture server, but I have not yet made it to posting about it. The hope is, in time, it will come. If someone needs help before then, I'm glad to help with specific questions.
The roof coating topic is a big one to understand what can go wrong if one does not do certain steps in order and a need for a better understanding of what was meant in the directions from the manufacturer. It's not hard, it just needs to be understood you have to follow the right method. There is more to getting a lifetime roof coating to last than a quick paint-it-on approach. You must start with a proven track record coating and apply it correctly understanding how RV roofs leak. And then there are the RV-specific items not always spelled out in the directions that can be missed just not knowing about them. I believe and have tested to prove what works and what does not; the right roof coating will give good service if applied correctly and for the right owner's reasons on what they want to accomplish with it. But a coating is not for everyone and does not fix every problem.
Good luck with your camper.
Thanks
John
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JBarca
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02/12/23 07:49am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are you familiar with Duck Coat Roof Coating??
JBarca - major kudos for such a detailed and helpful write up - Thank you!!!
Thank you Y-Guy! :)
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JBarca
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02/12/23 07:21am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are you familiar with Duck Coat Roof Coating??
John, you've given me a lot to think about! I don't know what my roof is made of -- but it has lasted for 11 years of constant sun exposure with no leakage at all, no cracking, no trouble yet.
And it would be nice to keep this little trailer for about ten more years -- I am in my early 70s, and I doubt I will be able to deal with trailering much beyond 80. I wish I could, I hope I will, but that is not the way to bet.
Having said that, I don't want to do a half baked job of preventive maintenance. So I have some homework to do.
Duck Coat users is itself very useful info. Let's stick with the tried and true.
Hi profdant,
Knowing a little more about your wants and needs, here are some thoughts.
First off, what roof membrane do you have? To answer this, we can sort it out two ways,
1. I "think" your camper was made by Cruiser RV. Was it? While your model is no longer offered,but they seem to still be in business. https://cruiserrv.com
Find your VIN, call them, ask for customer service, and ask what material your roof membrane is and the manufacturer (aka, Dicor, Alpha Systems, etc.)
2. Odds are, your roof is either EPDM rubber, TPO, a plastic material, or maybe PVC, another plastic material, but PVC was not as popular back in 2012 as it is now.
If you strike out at the factory, you can remove the crank open roof vent shroud inside the camper bathroom. Pull out the screen, and then it will expose the roof membrane folded over to the inside of the roof opening. From there have a look, EPDM is two layers, normally a top white layer with a black bottom layer. TPO is a solid color, and pending the brand, it could have a texture on the top roof side and a smooth side towards the roof deck. TPO in that era may also have a fleece backing. PVC is a solid color and many times slick, smooth top and bottom.
Take pictures and post them of what you see, it helps.
I tried to find a brochure on your camper and struck out. I did found this 2013 camper, I was looking for specs on it. https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2013-cruiser-rv-fun-finder-x-travel-trailer-floorplan-x-139-tr15103.
Not sure how accurate it is, the picture shows a tandem axle and yours is the single axle. But, by your sig picture and the X139 in that ad, your camper may be about 15 feet long. That is a small camper. 4 ft of the 15 feet would be approx. the A-frame, so the roof may only be 11 ft long.
On a roof that small, this is getting easier all the time as the size is small. (take less time to do the work). The smallest one I did roof work on so far was a 21 ft camper, most are 24 to 32 feet, and the work just takes longer.
Your age situation, yes, I very much understand that. Many of the camper roofs/camper restorations I have done are for friends in your same age group. They do not want a new camper; they like what they have, they just ended up with water damage, and I helped them with that. I have a somewhat extreme retirement hobby. I restore water-damaged campers and service everything on them. I am completing number 16 now. Some big restorations, others, more minor damage repairs.
As we all age (I'm 64), our bodies do not always like getting up a camper roof to check caulking four times a year. And even then, if you have never been through a major water damage repair, you may not know what good or bad caulk looks like. Or you never knew you had to get up there that often or ever, in some cases.
For the last 8 campers, I have done roof jobs as part of the restoration work, five had Eternbonded seams, and 3 had Henry's Tropi-cool roof coatings. All of these friends wanted to keep their camper for a long time and had age or health issues preventing them from doing roof maintenance. Like you, they wanted to keep the camper and opted to have a different approach to caulking leaks, all of which created the water damage they ended up coming to me for.
Here are a few pics of one of the restorations with Ebond on the seams. A 2007 T286SR Sunline was bought new in 2007 for a friend in MI. The front wall, back wall, and the whole roof was replaced. New walk-on roof decking with a new EPDM rubber membrane and all seams E bonded. This work was completed in 2019. This camper is a summer cottage staying in one place and travels once in a while in northern MI.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46965002734_d813e89382_o.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52147091754_36e3a3a45f_b.jpg width=640
Here is another 2006 Sunline, T276SR. This camper was bought by a friend with water damage. The inside was in OK condition, just with considerable water damage. This camper lives in a seasonal campground on the NJ shore area. It does get covered in the winter but is exposed the rest of the year. This camper had a front wall, rear wall, and main camper floor roof repaired, which had considerable water damage. This roof was repaired in bad spots, an EPDM roof, and the friend did not have the funds for a completely new decking and membrane. The leaks were from caulk failure, not membrane issues. The old roof was coated with Henry's 885 seam coating on all joints where caulk would have been used, followed by Henry's 887 coating on the large open areas. Note: This is not a walk-on roof, you had to use a plywood support board to service the roof.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51805578415_93635c8e88_b.jpg width=640
The gutter rails with Henry 885 seam repair and then top coated with 887 while still wet. This treatment stops water from wicking in rusted screws behind the vinyl screw cover. There is no more vinyl screw cover.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51805210509_731aa33180_b.jpg width=640
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51805210294_a763fa3446_b.jpg width=640
The whole roof with all seams treated with Henry's 885 and cured before doing two coats of Henry 887 coating on the whole area.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51803893547_c8caf8861c_b.jpg width=640
The first 887 coat was applied to wait to cure.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51804855156_2a3d8d8b66_b.jpg width=640
Both options create high confidence that there will be no roof membrane or seam leaks.
Since so much effort was put into the restoration and the roof, the siding and siding moldings had to be addressed to make the camper last. All siding penetrations (doors, windows, cargo doors, power cords, fresh water fill door, water heater, and furnace were removed and serviced, etc.; any opening or molding in the siding. The old putty tape was removed, and new high-quality commercial building butyl was installed along with RV Proflex caulking over the exposed butyl tape. Point: While you may not have to remove everything in the siding, water damage through a siding opening can be as bad or worse than roof leaks. You will still need to inspect and re-caulk any of for siding joints, but they are at least at ground level.
I'm not saying you need to go to either of these methods; there is more to each of them than the few pics I showed, but if you have an older camper and want to keep it for another ten years where it lives outside all the time with snow conditions, you have to do something with the roof and check the siding joints.
I hope this helps,
John
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JBarca
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02/10/23 09:59pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Adding Second A/C to 50 Amp TT
Snip...
The RV came prewired for 50Amp so adding a second AC shouldn't be too complicated... except finding one. The specs on the ceiling where the wiring is state: 110-125Volt, 60Hz, and here is my problem 16Amps Maximum. I am struggling to find an AC that will meet the 16Amp minimum (especially on start-up).
I am looking to add heat to that AC as well. I would appreciate any advice or point me in the right direction.
2022 F150 Powerboost Platinum (purchased Nov 2022, ordered May 2022)
2022 Cruiser Aire 28RKS Purchased Aug 2022
Hi,
I would say you may have miss read/understood the max amperage sticker. The sticker is normally talking about the max constant draw. And are you sure it does not state 15 amp? 16 amp seems odd for wiring size.
I have found "most" RV air conditioners will peak over their normal operating max current upon startup. The inrush current on the compressor will go over for a fraction of a second. The AC units have a hard start or other internal capacitors to help deal with this starting spike. And even then, the startup inrush current will still peg almost double or more over the nameplate max operating current of the AC for a fraction of a second.
For example, many campers, even on a 30 amp camper, come with a 20 amp breaker for the AC unit. I can tell you the AC unit will not pull all 20 amps constantly, but the inrush on a 13,5000 BTU RV AC (older Dometic Brisk Air) can be in the 37 amps range. Yet, the measured normal operating amps are 11.5 amps. If you want to see an amp probe measuring what I am talking about, see my post here on the Sunline forum where I cleaned the AC coils.https://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f71/cleaning-the-ac-coils-lots-of-pics-10405.html
Here is something you can also do. With the power off, measure the wire gauge in the ceiling for the 2nd AC hookup. It may be 14 AWG which is standard for a 15-amp circuit. If it is 12 AWG, it would be for a 20 amp circuit.
The circuit breaker has a slight time delay in it that helps cover quick large inrush currents. This is why the 37 amp inrush of a 13,500 BTU AC unit that only runs on 11.5 amps normally starts up just fine, that and the addition of hard start capacitors on the compressor. Slow blow fuses (the old screw-in type) can have longer time delays than circuit breakers. This can be why they picked a 20 amp breaker to power an 11.5 amp constant draw AC unit. The wire in the camper had to be 12 AWG, but the normal current was only 11.5, yet the inrush was 37 amps but was fast enough not to trip a 20 amp breaker. In this case, a 15 amp breaker may have tripped as the inrush is too high for the time delay. They breakers are rated at X times higher than the stated constant current.
Hope this helps
John
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JBarca
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02/10/23 08:44am |
Travel Trailers
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