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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
ya renogy, victron there all made in china now. I know several people with renogy onely one person had an issue and he was treated good. remember on the internet you only hear about the bad, happy people don't complain haha.. I will not buy Victron as I think they are very over priced for what you get. there are a few companies making componants that fit togeather but I think for a simple rv setup a lot of that is a waist of space and overkill. if you look at quality vs cost, I would probably put renogy at the top of the list. if your looking at just quality then there is victron and a nother one I cant remember off the top of my head but for cost vs quality I would put victron way down the list. plus victron is usaly big and bulky.
you also have to look at what stuff is designed for, victron is designed for whole home type setups where you usaly have lots of space and they can make things larger because it has to run 365 days a year 24/7. for rv use how often are we realy running our inverters if we are not full timing it. not very often. In my 40 foot 5th wheel I use it maybe 1/2 to 1 hour a day and I shut it off when not using it so it isn't drawing a standby power so over the course of a year say maybe 40 to 60 hours of use which I think is a fair bit for the average camper.. but you compare this to some one who full times and has a victron which is used up to 61320 hours a year in the extream fulltime off grid user. so ya if I was full timing on solar I would probably consider making the space and paying the extra money (over 1600 bucks by the time it would get to me from amazon) but I don't so the 360 buck renogy will work just fine, and if I have to replace it two more times it will still be cheeper than the victron. My renogy mppt solar controler has been working great for 3 years now in my camper. I think they are better quality that the OLD go power (when they were high quality and based in victoria, bc. when they sold it is rumored the quality went down)
now peopla are probably going to start posting saying your crazy victron isn't bad.. no they are not, they are very good, I just don't think for camping we need to pay that inflated price for the small bit of extra quality. if you have money to burn by all means get the victron if not, renogy has turned out to be a deicent option. If I am building a solar powered off grid cabin in the mountians then ya I'm installing victron as it has to run 365 days a year, if the go power inverter dies in my 5th wheel, guess I have to use the percolater instead of the kurieg, or cook my popcorn on the stove instead of in the microwave...the only thing from victron I would spen the money on for my rv is the smart shunt, that wants realy out yet when I bought the stuff for my camper and the renogy bluethooth ap does pretty much the same thing well not quite I guess.. it is a little over priced but its cheep enough it is worth it and gives you a cleaner instalation if you don't mind looking at your power stuff on your phone.
PD9180ALV
Yes some people seem to have lotsa money to pour into the RV's electrical systems. You go to the FB groups and in most cases everything is from Victron with 1000 Ah or more worth of Lithium batteries. (The trailer we just bought has 3 - 100Ah Relion batteries, was thinking of adding a 4th but they're over $2100 Cdn!)
We use our inverter probly 4-5 hours a day when we're camping but we only use our RV at most 8-10 weeks a year so I hear what you're saying.
Ya the Smart Shunt would be handy, might get the GX-50 too just so I'm not depending on my phone to monitor the battery when we're camping, or maybe the 712 display. Have a Trimetric in the old trailer.
Thx
Will
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Fisherguy
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01/31/23 01:48pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
personaly I stay away with "all in one" setups. only because if somthing brakes your replacing the whole thing so its a big price tag. also they are usaly bigger than just an inverter or converter so you have to find a place they fit in some situations and run new wiring.
so just looking at amazon (can probably find better pricing through dealers, but who knows) anyways that is 500. you can also get a 2000watt renogy pure sign wave inverter for 360. so if you bought thoes from amazon you at just over 1/2 the price, and if something ***** out down the road it is cheeper to replace. I use renogy for my solar controler and I love it.. a good north american company thats putting out a decient product. I have my 2000 watt inverter wired directly to my power center so when I am dry camping and turn on the inverter it can power the whole 5th wheel, but if you do that you need to put the converter on a breaker if it isnt already so it can be shut off when you don't have power. I do mine throught the auto transfer switch so I don't have to worry about that step.
Steve
Hi Steve,
So you're saying the PD9180ALV lithium converter is $500 on Amazon? I couldn't find it on there.
I asked about Renogy in a FB group and heard mostly negative comments. They rebrand a lot of their products with China built stuff they say, spend more on marketing and advertising than product development etc. Have also heard their customer support is terrible but I have no first hand experience myself. I've heard nothing but good things about Victron, they seem to be the latest craze no matter where you look, all bluetooth compatible etc etc but when we boondock I really don't want to be tied to my phone to see what's going on.
The trailer we bought came with a Renogy 40amp DC to DC converter that I also need to look into and wire up my truck etc.
On our old trailer I used a PD9280 and a Xantrex inverter wired through an Iota transfer switch to the power center so I could do that again in the new one.>
Hmmmmm.....? :h :h
Thx
Will
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Fisherguy
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01/29/23 12:40am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Make sure you check the actual watts on Victron Multiplus inverter. They list a 2000 and a 3000. The 3000 is 3000VA which is not 3000 watts but 2400 watt inverter. I think (not sure) the 2000VA is 1600 watt. So double check the specs on Victron's site.
Yes good point, but we've managed fine with our little 600 watt Xantrex for over 10 years so 1600 would be fine for us.
Thx
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Fisherguy
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01/29/23 12:24am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
did they offer a deicent price. personaly if it was me there wouldn't be a WFCO in there as soon as I bought it but thats just cuz every trailer I have had that has had one has failed in the first year, some times killing batteries some times not. so the last two I have bought new part of the sale was they swap in a PD converter and havn't had an issue. that way you can also get the exact model you want and just replace the converter section of the panel.
Interesting you asay that. I put the PD9280 up close to the batteries in the old trailer and kept the WFCO in place as a back up which now does nothing when I turn the breaker on.
Price was $54 shipped here (near Wms Lake)
Right now I'm trying to decide between the newer PD9180ALV lithium converter paired with a small inverter or a Victon all in one job with 2000 watt inverter and a 80 amp charger ($1550 Cdn on Amazon)
Whats your thoughts? (We only have a 600 watt inverter in the old trailer)
Thx
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Fisherguy
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01/27/23 12:07pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
I suppose now it's up to you to decide your best solution. If you want a converter go with Progressive Dynamics. If you want charger/converter/inverter go with Victron. The choice is yours. At this point with your current charger your lithiums are charging to about 80% with non lithium charger. Of course MY opinions are worth what you paid for them. ;)
Thanks for the help.
I put a PD 9280 in our old trailer and if I go that route it would be the PD 9180 ALV.
Victron Smart Shunt is on my list for sure and on the fence weather to go separate charger and inverter or an 'all in one' Victron.
The PD and a smaller inverter would be cheaper.
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Fisherguy
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01/26/23 11:50am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Ok Fisherguy, from an earlier post I saw you have volt/amp guage. If you can run your batteries down 30-50% SOC then you can monitor recharge amps and volts. IF your charger is charging at 14.4-14.6 volts with 50-60 amps, more than likely that's a lithium profile. IF your readings are more like 13.6-13.8 with lower amps, that's a FLA curve. Some Flooded curves will start over 14 volts and drop after an hour or so. Lithium will hold over 14 volts for as long as it takes to recover SOC. Depending on how many amp hours it needs to put back in the batteries. Most lithium battery makers use prismatic cells @3.2 volts. 3.2x4=12.8 volts. MAX charge per cell is 3.65 and 3.65x4=14.6. Lithium charge curves stay flat for most of the charge cycly then ramp up voltage sharply at the end. This is not charging voltage, this is state of charge voltage. The BMS is should be a 50 or 100 amp which is what charge/discharge current you can run through it. I wouldn't replace anything until you have an idea of your WFCO charge curves/amps etc. Run through a few charge/discharge cycles and see if you actually need more than what's there. And you can also do this using the Honda generator as well. Also as the batteries get closer to 100% SOC the charging amps will drop. Aso, the batteries BMS will stop the charge cycle when the batteries are full and cell balancing will begin. Lithium battery cells don't like too much variation between cells.
Thanks.
Plugged it in with batteries at 46%, got 27.5 amps at 13.6 volts.
I've since heard back from WFCO who told me the previous owner didn't install the 12V circuit board that has the 'lithium switch' on it so I won't get 14.6V. They offered to sell me the DC board.
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Fisherguy
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01/26/23 09:50am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Buy a GOOD quality inverter/charger/automatic transfer switch. Remove the converter and wire the DC fuse panel directly to the house battery bank (using a large fuse close the the battery bank).
Wire the shore power cable directly to the inlet of the inverter. Wire the outlet of the inverter to your AC breaker panel.
DONE !
Ya I'm looking into them. We only have a 600 watt inverter in our old trailer for TV sat dish etc and it's worked well. It seems the "all in ones" have 2000 watts as a minimum on the inverter side and only have about 1 amp no-load draw so that's not too bad.
Can you adjust the charging rate of the Victrons? Last thing I'd want is to put one in that was more than our Honda 2000 genny can power.
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Fisherguy
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01/25/23 07:56pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
..
Apologies, I quoted you but wasn’t questioning your response.
It was in reference to the OP who is planning to idk, stack converters.
And furthermore he doesn’t even know if his current converter is doing the job or not.
Stack converters?
We've had this trailer a whole 2 weeks and it's the middle of winter here so excuse me if I don't have any 'real world' experience with it yet and am looking for advice!
I said I'd probly leave the WFCO in place as a back up on it's own breaker and add another charger up closer to the batteries.
Is that OK with you?
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Fisherguy
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01/25/23 06:37pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
You're welcome.
Let us know what the tech has to say.
Well I knew it wasn't one of the new "auto detect" models cuz it doesn't have the colored LED's, couldn't find the 'lithium switch' the other ones have and today tech support told me,
"The WF-8955-AD-MBA supersedes the WF-8955LiS-MBA. Both are lithium compatible.
You have a WF-8955LiS-MBA which should have a manual switch to put it in lithium mode. The WF-8955-AD-MBA has an “auto-detect” feature that puts it in lithium mode.
The lithium switch location can vary. I believe I have yours figured out but will verify that next week and get back with you."
I think I'm going to put the WFCO on it's own breaker and add a new 20 amp breaker in the panel, run a 12-3 cable to the pass through and install some kind of higher amp charger there.
That's what I did in our old trailer, used a PD9280 that time.
Thx
Will
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Fisherguy
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01/20/23 06:20pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
According to the WFCO website, your "8955Lis200724" is lithium compatible.
Is it? It doesn;t have the 'lithium switch' so I didn't think so.
I looked at the website and couldn't find anything so I sent there tech support an email.
Thanks Boon Docker.
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Fisherguy
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01/19/23 10:58pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
...
40AH on AC.. I have never looked to see what my consumption on AC is as when I use AC I am pluged in and don't care. ...
Steve
Sorry, that 40Ah was with my 12 volt Norcold.
I have room for one more panel, maybe I should go bigger than 200, hmmm...
You ever deal with Riverside Solar in Kamloops?
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Fisherguy
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01/18/23 09:12pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
I have a "crappy" WFCO 68100. It's 11 years old. I have no idea if it goes into bulk mode.
Is that bad?
If it's worked for you and haven't had an issue with it don't worry about it.
I have a 12v fridge and only boondock so I want to charge my lithiums as fast as possible when runnung my genny, that's why I started this thread!
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Fisherguy
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01/18/23 07:58pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
If your charging amps are above 40 amps I'd say that's ok. Most lithium batteries have BMS's that are 50 amp or 100 amp charge/discharge capable. 55 watts is the max system output including lights, accessories etc. Whatever is left is for charging. If you're not having issues I wouldn't change it yet. You want charge voltage around 14.4 for lithium. If it's 13.6 or so that is for flooded lead acid. Lithium batteries don't have float mode. There are several good youtube videos show lithium charge and discharge curves. Do you have the Zamp 30 amp solar controller above the bed like mine? Make sure it is set to lithium also.
The previous owner told me he changed the charger for one that's compatible with Lithiums and when I slid the charger out I saw "8955Lis200724" on the label and assumed the 'Lis' part of it meant it was the Lithium charger but after doing some more clicking I now don't think it is. It doesn't look like the one on the WFCO site that sposed to be the Lithium conversion:
lithium replacement
I want to get the most bang for my buck when I need to fire up the Honda 2000 to charge the batteries so I'll be looking for something that puts out 75 or 80 amps or something.
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Fisherguy
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01/18/23 07:55pm |
Tech Issues
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RE: Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Without a battery shunt like Renogy or Victron you'll never know what your charge rate is. Or the real state of charge of the batteries. Unless maybe your batteries are bluetooth themselves. I have a 2018 ORV Creekside with the old non lithium 8955. With a Renogy shunt I only get about 5 amps max charging current into two 12 volt flooded batteries. Drooling over all the Victron stuff and lithium batteries currently. I do have one 180 watt solar panel that came on the trailer (Zamp). It has capacity for two more.
I do have a shunt with a display, looks similar to the Victron one.
https://i.imgur.com/pTFa0p7m.jpg
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Fisherguy
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01/18/23 04:06pm |
Tech Issues
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Are the new WFCO's as bad as the old ones?
Our old trailer (2007 Komfort) had a WFCO 8955 converter in it, I could NOT ever get it to go into bulk mode, not even when I moved it within a few feet of the batteries, tried everything. I did a thread on it. (I ended up putting a PD9280 in a new location closer to the batteries.) Any converter thread got pretty heated back then as I'm sure some of you will remember! ;)
We just bought a 2019 ORV Timber Ridge which unfortunately also came with an WFCO, this time a 8955 Lis. This is the one with a lead/lithium switch.
This trailer came with 3 - 100Ah LIthiums, has 600 watts of solar panels uptop and has a 12v Norcold fridge. (I might add another 200 watt panel and additional 100Ah Lithium if I need to?)
So are these new WFCO still as bad as the old ones?
If they're better I could replace the charger with a 8975 if it fits? (I'd have to upgrade the cables to the batteries I know)
Either way I'll be wanting to upgrade the charger for one as big as possible that will run from my Honda 2000 genny.
I'm hoping to shorten the learning curve re. lithium charging, this is all new to me.
Thx
Will
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Fisherguy
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01/18/23 11:15am |
Tech Issues
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RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
haha ya I know its only 5000 to have a 480 watt system installed from the stealership.. same set up would cost about 500 if you did it yourself.
are you sure all the watt hours are coming from your panel and not some from your generator, 400wh is about 33Ah which is above the practical maximum output for a 12V 100 watt panel but who knows not all panels are the same and you might be in a place that give you perfect solar all day or a movable mount so many factors.
I tried testing my set up to see if I could run the outside kitchen fridge on the invertwe while I was camping.. I can for about 2 days then I am down to 50% and time to shut off the inverter. thats with 480 watts of panels and 4 210AH 6V batteries. I do plan on upgrading to about 1000 watts of panels and 900AH of LFP batteries in the 5th so maybe I'll be able to do it then.
I'm not sure what you based your prices on but the previous owner had this 600 watt system installed May of last year for $1995 US.
600 watt package
Also would like to know where you can get parts for a 480 watt system for $500? I'd like to add another 200 watt panel and upgrade wiring and controller.
I'm also in BC, turned on the AC fridge for 24 hours, used 40 Amp/hrs but temps at the time were hovering around 0*C.
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Fisherguy
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01/15/23 12:00pm |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K
With 1800 watts of solar and 800AH of Lithiums I don't think you'd need to do any upgrades for a 12 volt fridge.
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Fisherguy
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01/06/23 08:15am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
... The day will come when everything will be 12v compressor and we will all need to adjust and by that time the solar and batteries will surely be up to the task.
And on that note I'm looking for advice. I have a chance to buy a trailer with 600 watts of solar panels, 3 - 100 Ah Lithiums and a 12 volt Norcold fridge.
I'll be installing a small inverter to power the TV and sat dish but no coffee makers or toasters etc for us.
If we only boondock do you think this setup will work for us? Maybe if I add another 200 watt panel and another 100Ah of Lithium?
We only very rarely need to run the genny to charge batteries with our current rig in my signature.
Thx
I think you have a good start there, but I'm certainly not any kind of expert on 12v longevity from a power stand point. But based on what you have and are willing to add to it you should be able hold out. You may encounter some issues if you winter camp using that kind of energy.
Thanks.
It will be interesting. I've been doing a lotta research, apparently Lithium batteries charge a lot quicker than lead/acid as well which is good, the less genny time the better.
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Fisherguy
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01/02/23 10:11am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?
... The day will come when everything will be 12v compressor and we will all need to adjust and by that time the solar and batteries will surely be up to the task.
And on that note I'm looking for advice. I have a chance to buy a trailer with 600 watts of solar panels, 3 - 100 Ah Lithiums and a 12 volt Norcold fridge.
I'll be installing a small inverter to power the TV and sat dish but no coffee makers or toasters etc for us.
If we only boondock do you think this setup will work for us? Maybe if I add another 200 watt panel and another 100Ah of Lithium?
We only very rarely need to run the genny to charge batteries with our current rig in my signature.
Thx
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Fisherguy
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12/31/22 11:02am |
Travel Trailers
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RE: 12 volt fridges and boondocking?
We have a 07 27' Komfort trailer, I put 480 watts of panels on the roof, we have a 600 watt inverter for the Sat TV and 2 GC batteries. The only time we need to fire up the genny is after 2 or 3 days of rain. We only boondock, never have hookups.
I'm on the ORV Facebook group and people there seem to have lotsa money to upgrade their new expensive trailers. 3000 watt inverters, lithium batteries and 12 volt fridges are all the rage.
So now I've found a 2019 ORV with 2 - 100 Ah Lithium batteries, a 12 volt fridge, 600 watts of solar and an automatic sat dish on the roof for sale at (what I think is) a great price. I think the owners travel a lot in the US with full hookups.
It also unfortunately has a Schwintek slide, so I've been researching that but also I'm unsure if the 600 watts of solar would be enough for us when boondocking for 3 or 4 weeks at a time.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks and Merry Christmas
Will
I have 480 watts in my 5th and four 6v batteries, so simular set up except I can go a bit longer before I worrie about power.
for you two LPF batteries will give you twice the usable amount of power asuming your 6V are around that 200AH mark. with two of them for max life you should only use about 50% of the capacity so that gives you 100AH to use. with the two LFP you have 200 usable AH to get the rated life, if you want more you can use less of it, but you don't need to set that up as right now if you can go three days with out sunlight with 600 watts of solar you will be shallow discharging anyways and can go longer without charge before it draws the battery down.
the only issue I see is how were the batteries treated, did he use a normal charge profile and just keep them up all the time, did he store them properly, is the converter and solare charger a proper LFP one so the profile is proper for charging and so on.. for me I would rather the guy take a healty chunk off the price and keep thoes batteries and purchase new ones if I had any suspisions about them.
I would definatly find out if he change the converter and solar charger to ones that are LI compatable at the very least.
I am not a fan of 12V fridges, I would probably trade it to some one with a good propane fridge if it would work, but it probably wouldn't haha.., but thats because I mostly boondock and using power for a fridge is a waist to me when propane lasts forever and does a good job. most I have looked at have a 5am draw when running, when I cam in the summer the temps are pretty warm (around 40C) so that would probably work out to a 50 to 60% duty cycle so that would use up 60 to 72AH in a 24hour period. right now running my 40 foot 5th wheel I only use 80AH in 24 hours and that is the very early spring or lait fall when I am running the furnace 24/7. in the summer I use 30 AH or less and that using the kureg in the morning and after supper and letting the kids watch a movie in the evening, if I had a 12V fridge it would take my daily use to 90ish AH in the summer and up to 150Ah in the winter..maybe less 130 to 140 as the duty cycle will drop a bit. the extra cost in batteries and panels to off set that over the cost to run the firdge on propane just doesnt make sense. now if you buy somthing with a 12V fridge you just have to make it work and in all likelyhood I would try grab that 3rd battery to give you the extra reserve capacity
Steve
I talked to the owner today, he had 3 - 200 watt panels installed professionally and has a Victron controller, also including the Victron DC to DC converter.
He swapped out the charger part of the WFCO for one that is compatible with lithium batteries, and he's also throwing in the 3rd 100 Ah lithium battery he was going to keep for his slide in camper. So I'm hoping I'll be good power-wise but I'll look at adding a 4th 200 watt panel if this deal goes through.
Thanks.
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Fisherguy
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12/24/22 04:47pm |
Tech Issues
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