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2019 Wolf Pup 16 BHS Limited, axle flipped
2019 F150 4x4 SCrew SB STX 5.0 3.55 factory tow package, 7000#GVWR, 1990 CC Tow mirrors, ITBC, SumoSprings,
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
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Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
al
The reason it's only half is there is a "Suspect #2" (or perhaps #1) and that is the battery.
Either the converter is putting out high voltage (your lights will be super bright and likely not last long story follows) or the battery MIGHT have one or more cells shorted (your volt meter is your friend.. Resting should be 12.6 Put a small load on it (I like automotive test lights.. Look like an ice pick with a bulb in the handle and a wire with clip lead.> Add 25-50 feet of say 18 or 20 ga wire (with a clip on one end and a ring terminal on the other) and you have a very useful tool.... Test fuses swiftly.. Find broken wires (12 volt side of life only) and more very fast and very easy)
If the light goes dim after a few seconds.. Shorted cell (you don't need the extension ground lead for battery testing)
Oh the extension lead.. Like I said put a ring terminal on one end or strip back an inch or two twist loop and solder This is so you can clamp the test lights clip on and a clip on the other.. Then Fold in half and re-roll on the spool it came on (or put one end through the center holes and move it to the middle and re-roll. That way you only need to unroll enough when you need it.
But use a volt meter even if it's a 10 buck horrible frieight special to measure battery and House voltages with the battery disconnected.... Post results.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times
144Grayling wrote:
Also the NAPA guy said that a deep cycle RV battery is not really appropriate for my set up (basically kept at full charge by the smart converter) since it never discharges. Opinions on that?
Also the NAPA guy said that a deep cycle RV battery is not really appropriate for my set up (basically kept at full charge by the smart converter) since it never discharges. Opinions on that?
Auto Parts guys are total experts on RV charging systems. NOT! Doug
I too, suggest you don't get your advice from a NAPA counter guy and yes, it's fine to run your particular rig on shore power without a battery.
* This post was edited 11/09/23 08:30pm by ScottG *
And if I really do need a battery to protect the system should it be a deep cycle RV battery or a plain old car battery, knowing it will never be without shore power.
144Grayling wrote:
The 12.9 was with the battery disconnected. (In fact the battery was at the NAPA shop miles away??) Looks like one vote for “it’s ok to run without a battery” and one vote for “you should put in a battery” Anyone else wanna break the tie?
And if I really do need a battery to protect the system should it be a deep cycle RV battery or a plain old car battery, knowing it will never be without shore power.
The 12.9 was with the battery disconnected. (In fact the battery was at the NAPA shop miles away??) Looks like one vote for “it’s ok to run without a battery” and one vote for “you should put in a battery” Anyone else wanna break the tie?
And if I really do need a battery to protect the system should it be a deep cycle RV battery or a plain old car battery, knowing it will never be without shore power.
high quality working converter likely no problem running w/o battery.
low quality converter or not regulating voltage no battery likely issue. The battery acts like a 12V load and filter.
my opinion, just install a 12 marine or car battery since you run with shore power.
will give protection for other more valuable stuff in the trailer, fridge, wh, furnace, lights etc.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!
Nv Guy wrote:
My guess is your battery is internally shorted. I would put a new battery in the coach. The battery acts as a "shock absorber" for the converter, stabilizing the output & giving the converter a stable voltage reference.
My guess is your battery is internally shorted. I would put a new battery in the coach. The battery acts as a "shock absorber" for the converter, stabilizing the output & giving the converter a stable voltage reference.
They haven't been built like that since the old Magtek 63XX days, prior to somewhere around 2000. Anything (even a WFCO) will have no problem making clean DC without a battery.
144Grayling wrote:
Also the NAPA guy said that a deep cycle RV battery is not really appropriate for my set up (basically kept at full charge by the smart converter) since it never discharges. Opinions on that?
Also the NAPA guy said that a deep cycle RV battery is not really appropriate for my set up (basically kept at full charge by the smart converter) since it never discharges. Opinions on that?
Lead acid batteries are happiest at 100% charge. All types of lead acid. But if the charger keeps charging after full, it will boil off the water causing damage.
Lithium are not happy staying for long periods at 100%. Better for storage at 20 to 80%.
Unless you are running 6v batteries, 99% chance the internals of your battery are a starting battery just with a different label slapped on.
Ridgeway, SC
Joe
2013 Dutch Star 4338- all electric
Toad is 2015 F-150 with bikes,kayaks and Harley aboard
Small SLAs are used for telecommunication & security equipment, and are readily available at your local stores for around $20-$30.
Search for "12V 7.2AH Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) rechargeable maintenance free battery".
'16 Forest River Sunseeker 2250SLEC Chevrolet 6.0L
Previously:
'00 Four Winds 26Q Class C (Ford E350 V10)
'96 Kit Sportsmaster 212f Fifth Wheel/'93 GMC Sierra K2500
'91 SunLite poptop truck camper
and the first: a Wildernest flip-top canopy.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
144Grayling wrote:
Thanks for all the information. The battery is a 12 volt lead acid RV deep cycle battery from Les Schwab. No reason to think it’s not what it says it is. As far as I know the only 12v functions in the trailer are lights, bathroom exhaust fan, radio and propane alarm. All those are fine on what’s coming out of the converter now: 12.9v No slide out, no hitch jack. Checking the panel it also has a few other 12v circuits that we don’t use ( dont need the water pump since we’re hooked up permanently, and the furnace, since we use electric heat instead of propane.) And it says the hood fan is 12v which I didn’t know. So everything we need is working fine off the converter and shore power. I don’t know why the converter was overcharging the battery to the point of boiling, but if it can go without a battery I really don’t need to care about it. I suspect that I killed the battery by leaving it outside uncharged over a couple of winters and that’s my bad. But, again, if I don’t need a battery in the system I’m ok. Still getting mixed opinions on that.
Thanks for all the information. The battery is a 12 volt lead acid RV deep cycle battery from Les Schwab. No reason to think it’s not what it says it is. As far as I know the only 12v functions in the trailer are lights, bathroom exhaust fan, radio and propane alarm. All those are fine on what’s coming out of the converter now: 12.9v No slide out, no hitch jack. Checking the panel it also has a few other 12v circuits that we don’t use ( dont need the water pump since we’re hooked up permanently, and the furnace, since we use electric heat instead of propane.) And it says the hood fan is 12v which I didn’t know. So everything we need is working fine off the converter and shore power. I don’t know why the converter was overcharging the battery to the point of boiling, but if it can go without a battery I really don’t need to care about it. I suspect that I killed the battery by leaving it outside uncharged over a couple of winters and that’s my bad. But, again, if I don’t need a battery in the system I’m ok. Still getting mixed opinions on that.
12V is needed for a propane/electric fridge (even on shore power) water heater (even on electric) usually for propane and sometimes CO detector
144Grayling wrote:
Thanks for all the information. The battery is a 12 volt lead acid RV deep cycle battery from Les Schwab. No reason to think it’s not what it says it is. As far as I know the only 12v functions in the trailer are lights, bathroom exhaust fan, radio and propane alarm. All those are fine on what’s coming out of the converter now: 12.9v No slide out, no hitch jack. Checking the panel it also has a few other 12v circuits that we don’t use ( dont need the water pump since we’re hooked up permanently, and the furnace, since we use electric heat instead of propane.) And it says the hood fan is 12v which I didn’t know. So everything we need is working fine off the converter and shore power. I don’t know why the converter was overcharging the battery to the point of boiling, but if it can go without a battery I really don’t need to care about it. I suspect that I killed the battery by leaving it outside uncharged over a couple of winters and that’s my bad. But, again, if I don’t need a battery in the system I’m ok. Still getting mixed opinions on that.
Thanks for all the information. The battery is a 12 volt lead acid RV deep cycle battery from Les Schwab. No reason to think it’s not what it says it is. As far as I know the only 12v functions in the trailer are lights, bathroom exhaust fan, radio and propane alarm. All those are fine on what’s coming out of the converter now: 12.9v No slide out, no hitch jack. Checking the panel it also has a few other 12v circuits that we don’t use ( dont need the water pump since we’re hooked up permanently, and the furnace, since we use electric heat instead of propane.) And it says the hood fan is 12v which I didn’t know. So everything we need is working fine off the converter and shore power. I don’t know why the converter was overcharging the battery to the point of boiling, but if it can go without a battery I really don’t need to care about it. I suspect that I killed the battery by leaving it outside uncharged over a couple of winters and that’s my bad. But, again, if I don’t need a battery in the system I’m ok. Still getting mixed opinions on that.
With that information, you don't need a battery. Your WFCO converter will take care of everything you describe.
ScottG wrote:
but you don't need it to make the converter create clean power - at least not a converter from 2007.
but you don't need it to make the converter create clean power - at least not a converter from 2007.
Good that you added "From 2007" as some of the older (Magnetek) you did need a battery or what they called a "Battery simulator" (Hardening capacitor is another name for it.. ONE HIGH CAPACITY Condenser like a farad or two) to clean things up.
144Grayling wrote:
The 12.9 was with the battery disconnected. (In fact the battery was at the NAPA shop miles away??) Looks like one vote for “it’s ok to run without a battery” and one vote for “you should put in a battery” Anyone else wanna break the tie?
And if I really do need a battery to protect the system should it be a deep cycle RV battery or a plain old car battery, knowing it will never be without shore power.
The 12.9 was with the battery disconnected. (In fact the battery was at the NAPA shop miles away??) Looks like one vote for “it’s ok to run without a battery” and one vote for “you should put in a battery” Anyone else wanna break the tie?
And if I really do need a battery to protect the system should it be a deep cycle RV battery or a plain old car battery, knowing it will never be without shore power.
looks like your converter is fried. should be 13.6 to 13.7 with no battery hooked up. so, you likely need a new converter and a new battery
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100
https://www.costco.com/interstate-u1-law........26-garden-battery.product.100476412.html
StirCrazy wrote:
looks like your converter is fried. should be 13.6 to 13.7 with no battery hooked up. so, you likely need a new converter and a new battery
looks like your converter is fried. should be 13.6 to 13.7 with no battery hooked up. so, you likely need a new converter and a new battery
I'd need to haul some serious test gear into his rig to make an "Diagnosis" but.
13.6 volts DC is not the same as 13.6 RMS.
The old Magnetek 6300 Well if you read on the older analog volt meters the DC out was like 12-12.6 but if you read on the type of hardware I have you saw 18 volts (Depending on the device. I have both kinds)
so his 12 volts... might just be poor filtering of a supply with lots of ripple. Or it may be a very smart converter that says "Well I do not sense a battery so I'll go with the lower voltage"
Some I'm told do that. never seen one but that's not the business i'm in.
But if you are planning on running w/o battery by all means.
If it's a trailer you need to tow.. Use a battery tender on the disconnected battery. re-connect to tow
Or upgrade converter to a Progressive Dynamics 9200 series. (or 4600 if it's part of the power distribuition assembly).
Boon Docker wrote:
His 12.9v reading from the converter (with no battery) is 14.32v RMS.
His 12.9v reading from the converter (with no battery) is 14.32v RMS.
how do you know that? If the converter is putting out 12.9V DC with little or no ripple the RMS voltage is 12.9V
Unless you LOOK at the output waveform and KNOW what kind of meter is used you don't know what the RMS value is.
Notice that none of the modes put out 12.9, so yes it’s probably defective. But as I said above, everything I need 12 volts for is working fine so I’m just going to live with it. I never timed how long I heard the cooling fan running (which I guess was bulk mode) but it seemed like more than 4 hrs. However long it ran, it boiled the battery. Maybe because the battery never got to 14.4 and the converter kept trying, possibly longer than it should have.
There is a caution in the manual that if it cycles into bulk mode more than once during a charge cycle to check for a bad battery. I wasn’t paying good attention and should have done that. And timed the bulk mode. And of course I shouldn’t have left the battery outside uncharged for 2 winters. So I lost all kinds of points on this one. As long as it’s not going to drive the converter crazy with zero volts battery discharge and damage it to the point it doesn't put out 12 volts, I can live with it. And as long as it’s not going to burn the trailer down trying to charge an air gap.
wa8yxm wrote:
I'd need to haul some serious test gear into his rig to make an "Diagnosis" but.
so his 12 volts... might just be poor filtering of a supply with lots of ripple. Or it may be a very smart converter that says "Well I do not sense a battery so I'll go with the lower voltage"
I'd need to haul some serious test gear into his rig to make an "Diagnosis" but.
so his 12 volts... might just be poor filtering of a supply with lots of ripple. Or it may be a very smart converter that says "Well I do not sense a battery so I'll go with the lower voltage"
not really a simple multimeter would do, if you really wanted to see a wavelength a simple oscilloscope will work.
He told us the model number and that's what that converter is supposed to put out as an output, from the manufacture, with no battery. We are not talking generics here but rather an actual test procedure from the manufacturer for that model.
but why the heck are we talking about RMS here, that is to get the average power from an ac power form and compare it to a DC voltage, there is no DC RMS, we do get DC ripple that is introduced from components and old unfiltered systems when they are plugged in or failing but that usually presents as a higher or lower overall voltage, and same thing you need a oscilloscope to see the ripple, so a manufacture isn't going to use that as a simple test the consumer can do as while you don't need an expensive one not many people have purchased a oscilloscope for their home tool box.
ktmrfs wrote:
how do you know that? If the converter is putting out 12.9V DC with little or no ripple the RMS voltage is 12.9V
Unless you LOOK at the output waveform and KNOW what kind of meter is used you don't know what the RMS value is.
Boon Docker wrote:
His 12.9v reading from the converter (with no battery) is 14.32v RMS.
His 12.9v reading from the converter (with no battery) is 14.32v RMS.
how do you know that? If the converter is putting out 12.9V DC with little or no ripple the RMS voltage is 12.9V
Unless you LOOK at the output waveform and KNOW what kind of meter is used you don't know what the RMS value is.
Epistemology
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
144Grayling wrote:
Ok. I checked the converter output this morning and it’s 13.2 VDC So it’s in float mode.
Ok. I checked the converter output this morning and it’s 13.2 VDC So it’s in float mode.
Perfect.
144Grayling wrote:
Ok. I checked the converter output this morning and it’s 13.2 VDC So it’s in float mode.
Ok. I checked the converter output this morning and it’s 13.2 VDC So it’s in float mode.
with a battery or without. if without it still isn't right and it won't go into any "Mode" without a battery connected as it is the state of charge of the battery that determines the load, or time at that state of charge. If this is with a battery you could be good. without. still doesn't meet specs.
2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up
I am curious though. What ever happened to Napa testing the battery? Did they say it failed the test or is it still good?
2001 Suburban 4x4. 6.0L, 4.10 3/4 ton
2005 Jayco Jay Flight 27BH
1986 Coleman Columbia Popup.