I am planning on changing everything to connect through a BUS BAR and upgrade all the cabling to heavier ga. I want to future proof it to handle a 3kw inverter.
It's been REALLY confusing figuring out what wires I need. ALMOST everything online "(forums and articles) tell me I need something like a 4/0 guage, which is HUGE. That makes sense considering 3kw can reach 200-250 amps. Except the fact that no OEM items come with something nearly this thick.
I think the reason all these recommendations may be wrong is they do not account for length of wire being very short in our use cases.
Can anyone confirm?
I've found this site, which DOES take into account length:
http://www.offroaders.com/technical/12-volt-wiring-tech-gauge-to-amps/
It looks like considering everything is definitely under 4ft, I won't need anything over 4ga. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that ampacity is over max 4ga rating when you look it up.
Using this calculator: https://baymarinesupply.com/calculator I get 2ga for my 2kw and 1/0 minimum for the 3kw. If this is the case I would likely go with 2ga to save money and more importantly because I don't even think the 1/0 would fit in the current inverters lugs.
Can anyone make any recommendations based on actual knowledge and not just heresay or making best guesses?
* This post was last edited 10/17/23 11:46pm by timelinex *
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
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after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
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There are various wire calculators availabke.
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* This post was edited 10/18/23 07:32am by CA Traveler *
The second major reason is shadow performance which is another topic.
timelinex wrote:
I have a 2kw inverter and will be getting a 100a converter for my 2 100ah lifepo4 batteries. Currently I'm just using whatever ga wires came with everything (a bix of 4/6/8).
I am planning on changing everything to connect through a BUS BAR and upgrade all the cabling to heavier ga. I want to future proof it to handle a 3kw inverter.
It's been REALLY confusing figuring out what wires I need. ALMOST everything online "(forums and articles) tell me I need something like a 4/0 guage, which is HUGE. That makes sense considering 3kw can reach 200-250 amps. Except the fact that no OEM items come with something nearly this thick.
I think the reason all these recommendations may be wrong is they do not account for length of wire being very short in our use cases.
It looks like considering everything is definitely under 4ft, I won't need anything over 4ga. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that ampacity is over max 4ga rating when you look it up.
Can anyone make any recommendations based on actual knowledge and not just heresay or making best guesses?
I have a 2kw inverter and will be getting a 100a converter for my 2 100ah lifepo4 batteries. Currently I'm just using whatever ga wires came with everything (a bix of 4/6/8).
I am planning on changing everything to connect through a BUS BAR and upgrade all the cabling to heavier ga. I want to future proof it to handle a 3kw inverter.
It's been REALLY confusing figuring out what wires I need. ALMOST everything online "(forums and articles) tell me I need something like a 4/0 guage, which is HUGE. That makes sense considering 3kw can reach 200-250 amps. Except the fact that no OEM items come with something nearly this thick.
I think the reason all these recommendations may be wrong is they do not account for length of wire being very short in our use cases.
It looks like considering everything is definitely under 4ft, I won't need anything over 4ga. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that ampacity is over max 4ga rating when you look it up.
Can anyone make any recommendations based on actual knowledge and not just heresay or making best guesses?
Look at the cables/connectors from your chassis battery to the starter motor. What size/material/insulation are they? It's quite normal for your starter motor to draw well over 250 amps @ 12 volts (nominal) to start the vehicle. Granted, it's usually for only a short time, but when you need it, . . . . you need it. It's not just the size of the wire, the connectors are important too, since over time, often (not always) they initiate the failure of the wire.
Chum lee
4/0 is ridiculous unless you were hooking it up across the street.
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Use at least 1/0awg or better yet, 2/0awg. If making your own, ask for the given gauge welding cables at your electrical supply store. Welding cable is very flexible with many smaller wires.
Another consideration is that many, myself included, decide that a given inverter is a little small and get a higher power unit. If the wiring is extra thick for the smaller inverter, it can support the larger unit.
IMO, the inverter should be directly connected to the battery bank with only a fuse or circuit breaker on the positive cable.
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Otherwise you'll need a hybraulic crimper. And based on what I've done I'd suggest and least 2/0 wire if not 3/0. Most inverters have a low voltage shutoff and a few tenths of a volt drop can make the difference in inverter running and inverter shutting down.
And make sure you use the correct fuse to the inverter. they are big, bulky but meant to protect under the high load conditions.
Welding cable has lots of very fine wire so it is very flexible and easy to route.
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Boomerweps wrote:
Read the reviews on Amazon. Most complain about the wires supplied with inverters is TOO small, mostly 4 AWG.
Use at least 1/0awg or better yet, 2/0awg. If making your own, ask for the given gauge welding cables at your electrical supply store. Welding cable is very flexible with many smaller wires.
Another consideration is that many, myself included, decide that a given inverter is a little small and get a higher power unit. If the wiring is extra thick for the smaller inverter, it can support the larger unit.
IMO, the inverter should be directly connected to the battery bank with only a fuse or circuit breaker on the positive cable.
Read the reviews on Amazon. Most complain about the wires supplied with inverters is TOO small, mostly 4 AWG.
Use at least 1/0awg or better yet, 2/0awg. If making your own, ask for the given gauge welding cables at your electrical supply store. Welding cable is very flexible with many smaller wires.
Another consideration is that many, myself included, decide that a given inverter is a little small and get a higher power unit. If the wiring is extra thick for the smaller inverter, it can support the larger unit.
IMO, the inverter should be directly connected to the battery bank with only a fuse or circuit breaker on the positive cable.
I plan on adding a BUS bar. Should I connect the negative end directly to my shunt and positive to my batteries...Or should I go through the Bus Bars, which add distance.
be sure to wire the batteries in a balanced manner.
This is what is balanced and best for twin twelve volt batteries.
![[image]](http://www.rubyorchid.com/RV/images/Pianotuna12V.png)
As it often doesn't cost a dime more to do this, I think it is worth the trouble.
If you wish to understand the "why" surf here:
correctly interconnecting multiple twelve volt batteries
Others may say it doesn't matter--but unless there is a compelling reason to not optimize charging and discharging why not do it the best possible way?
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
Cables can have up to 400 strands.
Bud
USAF Retired
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2003 Chev Ice Road Tracker
timelinex wrote:
I plan on adding a BUS bar. Should I connect the negative end directly to my shunt and positive to my batteries...Or should I go through the Bus Bars, which add distance.
Boomerweps wrote:
Read the reviews on Amazon. Most complain about the wires supplied with inverters is TOO small, mostly 4 AWG.
Use at least 1/0awg or better yet, 2/0awg. If making your own, ask for the given gauge welding cables at your electrical supply store. Welding cable is very flexible with many smaller wires.
Another consideration is that many, myself included, decide that a given inverter is a little small and get a higher power unit. If the wiring is extra thick for the smaller inverter, it can support the larger unit.
IMO, the inverter should be directly connected to the battery bank with only a fuse or circuit breaker on the positive cable.
Read the reviews on Amazon. Most complain about the wires supplied with inverters is TOO small, mostly 4 AWG.
Use at least 1/0awg or better yet, 2/0awg. If making your own, ask for the given gauge welding cables at your electrical supply store. Welding cable is very flexible with many smaller wires.
Another consideration is that many, myself included, decide that a given inverter is a little small and get a higher power unit. If the wiring is extra thick for the smaller inverter, it can support the larger unit.
IMO, the inverter should be directly connected to the battery bank with only a fuse or circuit breaker on the positive cable.
I plan on adding a BUS bar. Should I connect the negative end directly to my shunt and positive to my batteries...Or should I go through the Bus Bars, which add distance.
I would not route inverter power via the shunt or buss bars (extra connections between the battery and inverter). Make it as direct & short as possible, just protection.
Boomerweps wrote:
I would not route inverter power via the shunt or buss bars (extra connections between the battery and inverter). Make it as direct & short as possible, just protection.
Without the inverter on the shunt the battery monitor would not be very accurate.I would not route inverter power via the shunt or buss bars (extra connections between the battery and inverter). Make it as direct & short as possible, just protection.
My shunt is rated at 500A 50mV hence very limited voltage drop considering its 25mV at 250A. Plus connections of course.
* This post was edited 10/18/23 07:57pm by CA Traveler *
At 3000w, you are pretty much up around what the starter on a car will pull, so yes, you need a thick cable.
You might look for a heavy duty set of jumper cables to sacrifice. Much smaller 50amp charger installed recently but the 6ft 4 gauge wire was running $30 per cable (ie: I needed 2). Set of jumper cables was $15. I cut the ends off and used the wire.
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Check jumper cablles as you want solid copper and notf copper coated alumiinum,
4' will limit the cost,
CA Traveler wrote:
Goog suggestion but I've never seen 4/O jumper cables, maybe from a tow truck?
Check jumper cablles as you want solid copper and notf copper coated alumiinum,
4' will limit the cost,
Goog suggestion but I've never seen 4/O jumper cables, maybe from a tow truck?
Check jumper cablles as you want solid copper and notf copper coated alumiinum,
4' will limit the cost,
Problem is home depot was selling cable in 6ft lengths.
The 4 gauge was in the auto section and at 50amps, not too critical.
ktmrfs wrote:
go to a welding shop and buy the length of welding cable in the gauge you want and have them put logs on it for you. Many shops can do that.
Otherwise you'll need a hybraulic crimper. And based on what I've done I'd suggest and least 2/0 wire if not 3/0. Most inverters have a low voltage shutoff and a few tenths of a volt drop can make the difference in inverter running and inverter shutting down.
And make sure you use the correct fuse to the inverter. they are big, bulky but meant to protect under the high load conditions.
Welding cable has lots of very fine wire so it is very flexible and easy to route.
go to a welding shop and buy the length of welding cable in the gauge you want and have them put logs on it for you. Many shops can do that.
Otherwise you'll need a hybraulic crimper. And based on what I've done I'd suggest and least 2/0 wire if not 3/0. Most inverters have a low voltage shutoff and a few tenths of a volt drop can make the difference in inverter running and inverter shutting down.
And make sure you use the correct fuse to the inverter. they are big, bulky but meant to protect under the high load conditions.
Welding cable has lots of very fine wire so it is very flexible and easy to route.
OP, you don’t need anything elaborate like having cables prefabricated or a hyd crimper.
You can buy any number of clamping or solder/crimp lugs that can be attached with basic hand tools. But you “can” make elaborate cables if you wish.
Regarding wire size, the responses are all over the board here. Many who just think bigger is better. (It is, but doesn’t mean it’s necessary) I used a wire size calculator real quick to provide my recommendation. You should do the same. You have the data. It’s that easy.
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Grit dog wrote:
OP, you don’t need anything elaborate like having cables prefabricated or a hyd crimper.
You can buy any number of clamping or solder/crimp lugs that can be attached with basic hand tools. But you “can” make elaborate cables if you wish.
Regarding wire size, the responses are all over the board here. Many who just think bigger is better. (It is, but doesn’t mean it’s necessary) I used a wire size calculator real quick to provide my recommendation. You should do the same. You have the data. It’s that easy.
ktmrfs wrote:
go to a welding shop and buy the length of welding cable in the gauge you want and have them put logs on it for you. Many shops can do that.
Otherwise you'll need a hybraulic crimper. And based on what I've done I'd suggest and least 2/0 wire if not 3/0. Most inverters have a low voltage shutoff and a few tenths of a volt drop can make the difference in inverter running and inverter shutting down.
And make sure you use the correct fuse to the inverter. they are big, bulky but meant to protect under the high load conditions.
Welding cable has lots of very fine wire so it is very flexible and easy to route.
go to a welding shop and buy the length of welding cable in the gauge you want and have them put logs on it for you. Many shops can do that.
Otherwise you'll need a hybraulic crimper. And based on what I've done I'd suggest and least 2/0 wire if not 3/0. Most inverters have a low voltage shutoff and a few tenths of a volt drop can make the difference in inverter running and inverter shutting down.
And make sure you use the correct fuse to the inverter. they are big, bulky but meant to protect under the high load conditions.
Welding cable has lots of very fine wire so it is very flexible and easy to route.
OP, you don’t need anything elaborate like having cables prefabricated or a hyd crimper.
You can buy any number of clamping or solder/crimp lugs that can be attached with basic hand tools. But you “can” make elaborate cables if you wish.
Regarding wire size, the responses are all over the board here. Many who just think bigger is better. (It is, but doesn’t mean it’s necessary) I used a wire size calculator real quick to provide my recommendation. You should do the same. You have the data. It’s that easy.
around here welding cable is very reasonably priced, pay by the foot, lugs are sold individually and the shops I deal with will crimp for free if you buy the cable and lugs. makes it easy peasy, and quick. And usually cable is available in red or black, from AWG 6 down to 4/0. Quick, easy, affordable and your good to go.
Still doesn’t make any sense why they would “need” to be hydraulically crimped as you said above, though.
electrical lugs
timelinex wrote:
It looks like considering everything is definitely under 4ft, I won't need anything over 4ga.
It looks like considering everything is definitely under 4ft, I won't need anything over 4ga.
Smoke (and flames) will escape from the wiring if you use wire that small and a 2kw inverter.
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
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Grit dog wrote:
^Great, you have a shop that provides you good deals on cables. I work on a lot of vehicles and never needed that many cables over the years.
Still doesn’t make any sense why they would “need” to be hydraulically crimped as you said above, though.
^Great, you have a shop that provides you good deals on cables. I work on a lot of vehicles and never needed that many cables over the years.
Still doesn’t make any sense why they would “need” to be hydraulically crimped as you said above, though.
you probably could get by w/o a hydraulic crimper, but lots more work and time to get a good crimp. Hydraulic crimper and 20 seconds and your done with a long lasting gas tight seal.
Once I get to an 8ga or smaller wire, out comes the hydraulic crimper.
deltabravo wrote:
Smoke (and flames) will escape from the wiring if you use wire that small and a 2kw inverter.
timelinex wrote:
It looks like considering everything is definitely under 4ft, I won't need anything over 4ga.
It looks like considering everything is definitely under 4ft, I won't need anything over 4ga.
Smoke (and flames) will escape from the wiring if you use wire that small and a 2kw inverter.
exactly. a 2KW inverter will draw 200A or more, 4ga isn't even adequate for a 1KW inverter if you intend to run anything near rated output for more than 15 seconds or so.
ktmrfs wrote:
exactly. a 2KW inverter will draw 200A or more, 4ga isn't even adequate for a 1KW inverter if you intend to run anything near rated output for more than 15 seconds or so.
exactly. a 2KW inverter will draw 200A or more, 4ga isn't even adequate for a 1KW inverter if you intend to run anything near rated output for more than 15 seconds or so.
YEP!
Back in the 90s, (1991-1999) I worked for Heart Interface, the predecessor to Xantrex.
All of the 2kw and bigger inverters had 2/0 cables.
ktmrfs wrote:
Hydraulic crimper and 20 seconds and your done with a long lasting gas tight seal.
Once I get to an 8ga or smaller wire, out comes the hydraulic crimper.
Hydraulic crimper and 20 seconds and your done with a long lasting gas tight seal.
Once I get to an 8ga or smaller wire, out comes the hydraulic crimper.
A few years ago I installed a Victron inverter in my truck camper.
I bought a Temco hydraulic crimper. I built all of my own cables.
Video about my Temco Crimper
Another video: Building Battery Cables with TEMco Industrial TH0005 Crimper
![[image]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71BYQNwqH0L._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
Bobbo and Lin
2017 F-150 XLT 4x4 SuperCab w/Max Tow Package 3.5l EcoBoost V6
2017 Airstream Flying Cloud 23FB
TurnThePage wrote:
No room for 2 wires from post to post.
No room for 2 wires from post to post.
I just replaced all my battery terminal screws with slightly longer stainless steel bolts, with a lock and regular washers. They are all M8s for thread size and diameter. This is to allow two large terminals to be stacked for paralleling my batteries and allow plenty of thread engagement. Each battery has two connections per terminal, on one end battery is the inverter, and the other, the lines to the buss bars and battery cutoff.