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| Topic: HELP PLEASE... Hitch and extension ? |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/03/23 01:04pm
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Hello and thank you in advance for any input/ clarity you can provide. I have a 2003 F-250 W/ a 2K LB (dry) truck camper. I need a 3' extenion to be able to tow my 12' flatbed single-axle trailer and RZR XP41000 weighing around 3-3.5K LBS (guesstimate) Currently, I have a factory 2" V5 hitch, max weight of 5K LBS/ 500 LBS TW or 12.5 LBS/1,250 LBS W/ weight distribution hitch. I do have a weight distribution hitch from my old toy hauler BTW and think I will be using it. I also have airbags and a sway bar in the rear (stock sway bar in front). I have no idea what the tongue weight is. I want to keep this price conscious, wondering if I should just go with a 2" 36" extenion and make sure it has the chains and all that good stuff or if I should completely replace the hitch for a 2.5 or a dual hitch with the cross bar? I want to do it right and safe but not over the top if I dont have to. Any input would be appreciated. * This post was edited 08/03/23 01:38pm by Miguel951 * |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/03/23 01:13pm
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Update, seems like the tongue weight is going to be around 600LBS
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/03/23 01:30pm
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Go back to the drawing board. Your numbers don’t make a lot sense save for the total trailer weight of 3-3.5k. 1. Virtually any TC with a 2klb dry weight likely won’t need a 3’ extension. Not even if your truck is a short bed. 1a. Or your camper is much heavier if it’s a 9’ model on a short bed or a 10-11’ model on a longbed. 2. 600lbs tongue weight is excessive but probably necessary because you’ll have to back the buggy on that little trailer due to being single axle and the weight of dist of a rear engine rig. You have no adjustability in weight placement effectively. So yeah maybe. But I’d figure out how to lighten up the tongue weight a little. You’ll have no issues with the truck, hitch receiver or a quality basic extension at 24-30” long. I can’t speak for longer with the same or similar tongue weight. A weight dist hitch in this scenario seems somewhere between heavy, useless or may not work right. But your truck and hitch will handle it so it’s also not necessary with your little trailer. Interested to see it employed successfully if you do it though. 2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s 2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold. Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/03/23 01:33pm
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I’d slap simple tube extension in it and hit the road. But I can’t recommend that officially to you as your inexperience my not allow you to fully understand if something is not quite right.
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Posted By: mkirsch
on 08/03/23 02:54pm
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First thing, do you REALLY need 36" or is that what gets the end of the receiver tube even with the rear of the camper? You usually don't need an extension that reaches to the rear of the camper. It can easily be 12" under the camper. The shank gives you about half of that back, and you will NEVER come close to hitting going forward. I don't see a "plain old 36 inch extension" for a 2" receiver anymore anyway. Seems like I remember Reese used to make one but the only one I can find now are for 2-1/2" receivers, rated for 6000lbs at 34" extension with a WD hitch. Doesn't help you a bit because you don't have a 2-1/2" receiver. If you did it would probably work okay, but for the life of me I can't find the 2" extension now. Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four. |
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Posted By: 3 tons
on 08/03/23 04:07pm
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Both Curt and Draw-tight make 2” 18” extensions, both are rated at 3500# trailer weight and 350# tongue weight…Your’s at 600# is a candidate for troubles…I have one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Simple-WEIGHTM-Tongue-Weight-Scale/dp/B0B2KLQ62Y/ref=sr_1_4?crid=20EXAPYQPBKMD&keywords=tongue+weight+scale+for+travel+trailers&qid=1691100354&sprefix=Tongue+weight%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-4&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/03/23 04:15pm
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I do need a 36" a little more or less would be fine. My camper is for an 8' bed and I have the 6.75 so the tailgate has to be down. The handle on the jack of the trailer could possibly hit if I go shorter. Agree that its hard to find a 2" extenion but I did. One on Facebook marketplace that was custom-made by Eckhart and the other on E trailer https://www.etrailer.com/Hitch-Fabrication-Parts/CURT/C49360.html. Doesnt have nay ratings though. I was told that i should go with the 2.5" because the 2" would break from the stress of the side-to-side motion. Thoughts and input would be appreciated |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/03/23 04:17pm
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That is a really cool btw to measure tongue weight
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Posted By: 3 tons
on 08/03/23 06:53pm
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Well, in my honest opinion, I wouldn’t attempt 600# tongue weight on a 36” x 2” extension - but with so much at stake, far better not to guess tongue weight… This should be your starting point…The 600# is exponentially increased on the hitch as you extend it out 36”…Longer term, best to keep ‘the fun’ in the game, JMHO 3 tons |
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Posted By: Baja Man
on 08/03/23 09:40pm
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You mention price conscious....however this is not where $$$ should be skimped on. A few months ago I installed a Torklift hitch and extension on a friends F350 so he could tow his boat. His stock hitch was inadequate for this set up. It was costly, but he tows with comfort knowing it was done correctly. There is a thread I created about it with install details. 2023 GMC, 3500HD, Crew Cab, 6.6L Gas/6 Speed Auto, 4X4, Standard Bed; SRW 2011 Outback 250RS - Anniversary Edition Equal-i-zer 10K |
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Posted By: ticki2
on 08/04/23 05:06am
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You have a short bed truck with a long bed camper , most likely taking weight off the front axle . Then in addition your putting a 3 ft extension and a 600 lb tongue weight off the back . It’s time to hit the scales , truck axle weights , truck and camper axle weight and if possible, truck camper and trailer axle weights . I suspect you are going to be too light on the front axle and overloaded on rear tires . A WDH will help , maybe enough maybe not . My humble opinion is there is more than one problem to solve .
'68 Avion C-11 '02 GMC DRW D/A flatbed |
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Posted By: mkirsch
on 08/04/23 06:05am
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If you have an 8' camper, that is, an 8' floor length, then you don't need anywhere near 36". 18" will be more than enough. 12" is really all you need. Your truck's stock receiver doesn't stick out past the bumper. There is no reason that the extension has to extend past the rear of the camper. Don't count on your tailgate to support the camper. You may get away with it but that's all you're doing, is getting away with it. Expect broken support cables. |
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Posted By: 3 tons
on 08/04/23 07:29am
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I once had a Ram OEM factory hitch (rated at 1,800 #) bend due to using an extension - correct solution is to go with a 2.5” hitch and a more substantial extension…Curt makes a bolt-on commercial hitch… 3 tons |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/04/23 09:57am
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ticki2 wrote: You have a short bed truck with a long bed camper , most likely taking weight off the front axle . Then in addition your putting a 3 ft extension and a 600 lb tongue weight off the back . It’s time to hit the scales , truck axle weights , truck and camper axle weight and if possible, truck camper and trailer axle weights . I suspect you are going to be too light on the front axle and overloaded on rear tires . A WDH will help , maybe enough maybe not . My humble opinion is there is more than one problem to solve . Not an issue. Even if his camper is far greater dry weight than what he’s claiming for weights, model of truck and lengths. Do the math and then re-assess what you’re supposing. And also not discounting that there are additional considerations and/or it’s prohibitive to use a wdh and extension in conjunction in many cases. |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/04/23 10:06am
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Miguel951 wrote: I do need a 36" a little more or less would be fine. My camper is for an 8' bed and I have the 6.75 so the tailgate has to be down. The handle on the jack of the trailer could possibly hit if I go shorter. Agree that its hard to find a 2" extenion but I did. One on Facebook marketplace that was custom-made by Eckhart and the other on E trailer https://www.etrailer.com/Hitch-Fabrication-Parts/CURT/C49360.html. Doesnt have nay ratings though. I was told that i should go with the 2.5" because the 2" would break from the stress of the side-to-side motion. Thoughts and input would be appreciated Considering you have yet to state actually how long the camper is, your assessment of what you need still is or certainly could be lacking. But assuming the camper itself is shorter than the truck bed + tailgate down, nor does it hang down below bed height or the tailgate would be less of the issue or just not able to be left in place. (Not that it’s necessarily prohibitive to leave the tailgate on and have it partially supporting the camper or just along for the ride. You could have some combination that I’m not able to visualize though, although I suspect it’s your inexperience or not having yet paired up or mocked up the setup. Right now it’s a guessing game with the breadcrumbs you’ve provided. How about you post up a couple few pictures with some applicable dimensions and then I/we can help you accurately determine what will work. |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/04/23 01:58pm
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So the factory 2” hitch is out. Would you recommend I go with a 2.5” hitch and the extension bar that is adequately sized for this or the truss system (dual hitch receivers)?
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/04/23 02:14pm
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Whoops missed there was already a page 2. Thank you all for the feedback 1) I hear your concern about having too much weight off the front axle. I cant say I can go the scales yet. For now, hoping the airbags will help to keep the stock riding height and weight shifted correctly and the weight-distributing hitch will also help push weight forward. I have all the right wheel and suspension upgrades to stay under limitations and it drives great right now. I will for sure keep this in mind. 2) I can see about using an 18" extension. its actually a 10' floor on what should go on an 8' bed I'm using a 6.75' bed. also carry 1 1/2" plywood sheet running from the length of the bed to help distribute weight better. There's not much weight on tailgate. but will also check this out. Is a 2.5 hitch with a proper extenion recommended or the truss 2 hitch system? Is the second one overkill? |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/04/23 07:44pm
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Your plan went from possibly not great to bad. But at least I see why you need a 3’ extension…. |
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Posted By: 3 tons
on 08/04/23 10:42pm
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I would be a little concerned about the behind the axle COG (with 3’ + rear overhang) and 600# hitch weight…It seems that the root problem is too little truck for too big of cargo, and too big of cargo cascades into the tow extension issue - we’re all in this to have fun, but the best sequence is to choose the camper first, then pick the truck (just saying from experience, been there myself…). 3 tons |
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Posted By: MORSNOW
on 08/05/23 06:46am
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Miguel951 wrote: Whoops missed there was already a page 2. Thank you all for the feedback 1) I hear your concern about having too much weight off the front axle. I cant say I can go the scales yet. For now, hoping the airbags will help to keep the stock riding height and weight shifted correctly and the weight-distributing hitch will also help push weight forward. I have all the right wheel and suspension upgrades to stay under limitations and it drives great right now. I will for sure keep this in mind. 2) I can see about using an 18" extension. its actually a 10' floor on what should go on an 8' bed I'm using a 6.75' bed. also carry 1 1/2" plywood sheet running from the length of the bed to help distribute weight better. There's not much weight on tailgate. but will also check this out. Is a 2.5 hitch with a proper extenion recommended or the truss 2 hitch system? Is the second one overkill? Your camper is growing... There isn't a 10' long camper made that will fit in a 6-1/2' box properly. It will weigh well over 3,000 lbs with the COG probably over 2' behind the axle, it's just not doable. 2014 Wolf Creek 850SB 2012 GMC Sierra SLT 2500HD 7,220# Truck/10,400# Camper Fully Loaded |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/05/23 10:14am
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^What he said. I can envision probably making it work, relatively well, but not for the inexperienced or uninformed and possibly not feasible at all. Far more considerations than the OP originally posted to make this square peg fit ok in a round hole. |
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Posted By: ticki2
on 08/05/23 11:16am
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Airbags do nothing for weight distribution , they just raise the suspension on the rear axle . Think of the rear axle as a fulcrum , everything in front of it adds weight to the front axle , everything in back of it subtracts weight from the front axle .
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/05/23 07:41pm
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Bottom outside length of the camper is 10’ top is 17’. I mentioned this was made for a 8’ bed or a 6’ bed with the tailgate down. I have a 6.75’ bed. Dry weight is listed as 2k. There’s no bottom part of camper below tailgate. 28” from truck bumper to bottom of camper. I have Firestone rated tires, 18” rims, bags. Tow behind trailer is 12’ to carry a Rzr xp1k4. It does have a Jack close to the front so it could potentially hit the back of the camper if the trailer hitch is too much underneath |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/05/23 07:46pm
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Trying to figure out how to post pictures
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/05/23 07:56pm
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No idea how to attach pictures. Sorry
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/05/23 08:03pm
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As for airbags not helping to distribute weight. I think they do. They are sold for truck campers to help with light steering wheel, fix your lights from blinding others and to restore stopping power.
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/05/23 11:32pm
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You’re still quite confused. Suffice it to say we will have to see this 10’ camper that’s made for a shortbed “with the tailgate down.” Google rvnet photo posting and follow the link in a thread on this forum to post pics. So how does it haul? You said you have the truck and camper. Presume it’s as light as you say? (See the doubt here?). I will say I’ve put a lot of miles on with a 4klb TC and the tailgate on. Or off. Depending on the trip and what I needed. And I don’t think it will auto magically pull too much weight off the front axle. Maybe not even with the traielr but that’s a long extension although no more than a big 11footer on a long bed. Like I said, I can imagine this possibly being ok. But can’t recommend it, based on your lack of experience and understanding. So F it. Slap an extension on it and hit the road. You can buy one anywhere. |
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Posted By: Bedlam
on 08/06/23 12:44am
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Air bags will help rear squat and point your heights the right direction but do not transfer weight other than the slight geometry change.
Chevy Sonic 1.8-Honda Passport C70B-Host Mammoth 11.5-Interstate Car Carrier 20-Joyner SandViper 250-Kawasaki Concours ZG1000-Paros 8' flatbed-Pelican Decker DLX 8.75-Ram 5500 HD
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Posted By: valhalla360
on 08/06/23 06:01am
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Miguel951 wrote: As for airbags not helping to distribute weight. I think they do. They are sold for truck campers to help with light steering wheel, fix your lights from blinding others and to restore stopping power. I would stay away from anyone trying to sell them for weight distribution. They can help with lights because the rear axle isn't squatting by 4-6inches not because they reduce weight on the rear axle. The only way they might help with steering is if you are so overloaded that the suspension is bouncing uncontrollably. Of course, that's just a bandaid as you would still be overloading. Tammy & Mike Ford F250 V10 2021 Gray Wolf Gemini Catamaran 34' Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
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Posted By: Geo*Boy
on 08/06/23 07:37am
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Have you weighed your truck/camper? I don’t believe a 10’ floor 17’ overall length truck camper weighs 2k. You will find that the camper is closer to 3k+ lbs. ready to travel and your truck is grossly overloaded. Having the tailgate down doesn’t make your short bed truck a long bed truck. Adding any trailer is just adding to your overloaded truck.
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Posted By: 3 tons
on 08/06/23 08:20am
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Miguel951 wrote: As for airbags not helping to distribute weight. I think they do. They are sold for truck campers to help with light steering wheel, fix your lights from blinding others and to restore stopping power. Perhaps it’s not yet evident but since you asked, your plan is riddled with patches and weak links…JMHO 3 tons |
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Posted By: Bedlam
on 08/06/23 08:35am
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Miguel951 wrote: Bottom outside length of the camper is 10’ top is 17’. I mentioned this was made for a 8’ bed or a 6’ bed with the tailgate down. I have a 6.75’ bed. Dry weight is listed as 2k. There’s no bottom part of camper below tailgate. 28” from truck bumper to bottom of camper. Campers that are built for short bed applications typically have a CG 2' from the front wall by placing heavier items forward. Most of these campers do not exceed 9' length to keep proper CG. You are putting too much weight aft of the rear axle and the also adding additional hitch weight on an extension which just leverages even more weight off your front end. This setup will result in unpredictable handling. |
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Posted By: ticki2
on 08/06/23 04:20pm
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Pray tell , what in the world are “Firestone rated tires”,rated for what ? BTW the carrying capacity of the tire is printed on the side of the tire .
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 12:03am
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Lol, right. I know the tire rating and max load w/ what psi is on the wheel wall. Man you guys are relentless here. Ok, well thanks to all those who provided real value and help with well articulated points and questions that start working toward the right solution. Good bye to the answers that were not helpful Here’s what I’m going to do. The truck and camper ride and handle great first of all. I have zero concern of the front end being too lite now or once fully set up (though I will heavily monitor). I don’t care that I have to load the camper on with the tailgate down (I don’t feel or see any real overload or stress on it). going above my trucks total/combined weight rating is not the ultimate determining factor for me. I know the factors that go into creating that number and I know what I have done to fix or raise those ratings (but I will obviously have respect for them). If I decide to set up for a trailer, I will weight the tongue weight, I will either get the 2.5” hitch in the biggest class I can get with an extension receiver or the dual hitch w/truss extension that come with the chains on the sides to reinforce extension. I can consider the hitch not extending past the camper. I will measure the trailer and see where the hitch Jack handle will/would hit and see from there. I’ll try a weight distribution hitch to increase tongue capacity and maybe toss some of that tongue weight up front. |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/07/23 09:37am
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Well, your post above is good to hear and why I left an aire of “it may work just fine” in my responses. Until now, you hadn’t posted anything that even alluded to the fact that you’re satisfied with how your camper hauls. And it could easily be the opposite of what you just stated. I will add, the paranoia about tailgates and TCs is somewhat unfounded by some folks. It’s situational for sure. But I do agree with the direction you’re headed for hitch receivers. One other thing to consider if you don’t go with a dual tube truss like a Tork Lift, is the total amount of sag at the end of the extension. The longer you go, the more the slop in the hitch connections and truck ride height exaggerate that and could leave you potentially with the end of the receiver tube a bit too low for practical use. Less of a concern if your truck is 4wd. |
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Posted By: 3 tons
on 08/07/23 12:49pm
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Miguel951 wrote: Lol, right. I know the tire rating and max load w/ what psi is on the wheel wall. Man you guys are relentless here. Ok, well thanks to all those who provided real value and help with well articulated points and questions that start working toward the right solution. Good bye to the answers that were not helpful Here’s what I’m going to do. The truck and camper ride and handle great first of all. I have zero concern of the front end being too lite now or once fully set up (though I will heavily monitor). I don’t care that I have to load the camper on with the tailgate down (I don’t feel or see any real overload or stress on it). going above my trucks total/combined weight rating is not the ultimate determining factor for me. I know the factors that go into creating that number and I know what I have done to fix or raise those ratings (but I will obviously have respect for them). If I decide to set up for a trailer, I will weight the tongue weight, I will either get the 2.5” hitch in the biggest class I can get with an extension receiver or the dual hitch w/truss extension that come with the chains on the sides to reinforce extension. I can consider the hitch not extending past the camper. I will measure the trailer and see where the hitch Jack handle will/would hit and see from there. I’ll try a weight distribution hitch to increase tongue capacity and maybe toss some of that tongue weight up front. Trial and error has always been my best teacher - best of luck ![]() 3 tons |
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Posted By: mkirsch
on 08/07/23 01:50pm
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Miguel951 wrote: Man you guys are relentless here. "Trust me I know what I'm doing," is not an acceptable answer here. Really, if you know what you're doing then why even ask? People want to see SPECIFICS so that we can all be on the same page. Being vague about what you have only serves to frustrate the people that you want help from AND elicits less-favorable, aka "unhelpful," responses. If you want helpful responses you need to post helpful information and cooperate in the process, not speak vagaries as if your camping hobby is a state secret. Why is the brand and model of your camper a secret? It's very relevant to the conversation. Why are the actual ratings of the tires a secret? They're very relevant to the conversation. |
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Posted By: jimh406
on 08/07/23 03:15pm
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You can use this site to post pictures. http://photoposting.is-great.net/?i=1 I agree that you need to determine how long your hitch/ball mount really needs to be. A few things that people haven't mentioned. 1. Your hitch is 20 years old. Maybe it is fine, but maybe it is not. I'd personally look into an aftermarket hitch or OEM takeoff that is a 2.5 or 3. I believe the 2003 F350s had an option for 2.5s which are a lot stronger than a 2. Also, long 2.5s are more commonly available. 2. The tongue weight is variable depending on how you load the SxS on the trailer and where the axle is. 3. You "could" extend the trailer tongue and not extend the hitch. That creates other possible issues. 4. A few companies make extended ball mounts as well. Your total length of hitch extension/ball mount is important, but you can make up the difference with making one longer/shorter. If you want to wing it, that's up to you. But if you want to be more accurate, get some measurements and weigh the combination. If needed, you could take the trailer loaded to a weigh scale without the TC. You may be very close to perfect, or way off. You won't know until you check everything. Fwiw, plenty of people have been shocked how much their rigs weigh and that counts all types of RVs. '10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops. NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 10:25pm
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Let me give this another shot. I can see how having all the details could help in providing the right direction. my apologies there. Goal: For truck to be able to carry camper, tow trailer w/ rzr behind. Plan: Best case scenario- (If needed) 2.5” hitch with 24” (from pin hole to pin hole) Curt Extension Bar- specs: 6K max/ 600 lbs TW regular or 8K max/800 TW W/ WD hitch. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00537ESCQ/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1. and run an Easy lift V5 weight distribution hitch (12” long from pinhole to ball). Truck: 2003 F-250 4X4 V10, crew cab, 6.75’ bed. Specs: GVWR 8,800lbs. Front GAWR= 4400 lbs and Rear GAWR= 6,084 W/LT235/85R16E Tires and rim. 2’ OEM Hitch V5 (W/ WDH 12,500 max/ 1,250 TW W/O WDH 5000 max/ 500 TW) Upgrades: overload spring (stock) rear firestone airbags (drill into frame type) 1 3/8” rear sway bar Tires-Firestone transforce HT (LT275/70R18) on 2022 OEM rims. Load range E (Max load 3,640 lbs @80 PSI) (which is what I run them at) Real-time pressure/ heat tire sensors planned Upgrades: Wedge under overload spring lower point of contact for overload bumpers Camper: 2003 Elkhorn LT 9D Specs: 2,070 LBS, W/136L of H20, 20lbs propane tank, fridge. No bottom bumper. Exterior measurements (10’ bottom, 17’ top, 96’ wide, 90” tall) *NOTES: CG seems to be in front of axle (freshwater tanks, fridge, LP, Battery, water heater. Trailer and RZR 12’ x 77’ flatbed trailer, Single axle, w/ elec brakes, hand jack 10” from ball receiver. Xp1k4 Turbo. Loaded with the front end first, the motor in back. According to this video, tongue weight is 600 lbs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltMgL4t6N1I) I expect the trailer and rzr to weigh 3.5K LBS but that's a guestimate. Worth noting: I’ve heard the recommendation that some of the trailer can go under the camper and that the hitch extension doesn't necessarily need to stick past the camper. the thing to note is that the trailer jack and handle is 10” from the ball receiver and stick up high enough that it could hit the tailgate. I can consider removing and buying a smaller side frame jack if this solves some problems. Camper sticks out 28” from the Hitch receiver. I agree I need to get the camper wieghed. * This post was last edited 08/07/23 11:34pm by Miguel951 * |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 10:48pm
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jimh406- Thank you for your response and link to include pictures. I agree I need to determine length, and good call on getting a 2.5"-3" hitch. tongue weight is what it is in this scenario as the rzr barely fits. Thanks again
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 10:49pm
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 10:49pm
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 10:50pm
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 11:13pm
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Just read that someone didn't recommend a weight distribution hitch for an extension. Interesting. Could you explain? I think I see a reason but just looking to be more educated on this. Is it because it could bend or kink the bar?
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 11:17pm
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Maybe the 18' bar could work. I think it would get me to 24" inches and 4" of the trailer would go under the camper. Just concerned the jack body and handle could hit camper
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/07/23 11:19pm
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Miguel951 wrote: jimh406- Thank you for your response and link to include pictures. I agree I need to determine length, and good call on getting a 2.5"-3" hitch. tongue weight is what it is in this scenario as the rzr barely fits. Thanks again 3” hitch is a waste. Idfk why Ford even started that fiasco. Maybe to detract from other shortcomings? Lol. They’re not rated for any more than the 2.5s. And also only on the 2017+ models I think? The old chassis was the same frame from 99-16 so an OE 2.5 should fit. Maybe bolt up? Good luck. Hope it all works for ya. Now that you’ve shown you’re looking at it in detail, it’s a different story. None of us knew what your mystery camper was/is until now. Still depends how stout it is. I’m not paranoid of putting some weight on the tailgate like some here. Nor am I worried about working the rest of the truck to its abilities. Have to remember most folks here are campers not mechanics and or folks who know and work trucks like mules. So what you’re doing seems really far fetched to them. Not sayin you won’t have some issues or hopefully just a few challenges but you’re not all wet like it first seemed. |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 11:21pm
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Well maybe not. That 18" extension is maxed out at 3500 lbs 350 TW
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/07/23 11:35pm
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Let me give this another shot. I can see how having all the details could help in providing the right direction. my apologies there. Goal: For truck to be able to carry camper, tow trailer w/ rzr behind. Plan: Best case scenario- (If needed) 2.5” hitch with 24” (from pin hole to pin hole) Curt Extension Bar- specs: 6K max/ 600 lbs TW regular or 8K max/800 TW W/ WD hitch. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00537ESCQ/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1. and run an Easy lift V5 weight distribution hitch (12” long from pinhole to ball). Camper sticks out 28” from the Hitch receiver. Truck: 2003 F-250 4X4 V10, crew cab, 6.75’ bed. Specs: GVWR 8,800lbs. Front GAWR= 4400 lbs and Rear GAWR= 6,084 W/LT235/85R16E Tires and rim. 2’ OEM Hitch V5 (W/ WDH 12,500 max/ 1,250 TW W/O WDH 5000 max/ 500 TW) Upgrades: overload spring (stock) rear firestone airbags (drill into frame type) 1 3/8” rear sway bar Tires-Firestone transforce HT (LT275/70R18) on 2022 OEM rims. Load range E (Max load 3,640 lbs @80 PSI) (which is what I run them at) Real-time pressure/ heat tire sensors planned Upgrades: Wedge under overload spring lower point of contact for overload bumpers Camper: 2003 Elkhorn LT 9D Specs: 2,070 LBS, W/136L of H20, 20lbs propane tank, fridge. No bottom bumper. Exterior measurements (10’ bottom, 17’ top, 96’ wide, 90” tall) *NOTES: CG seems to be in front of axle (freshwater tanks, fridge, LP, Battery, water heater. Trailer and RZR 12’ x 77’ flatbed trailer, Single axle, w/ elec brakes, hand jack 10” from ball receiver. Xp1k4 Turbo. Loaded with the front end first, the motor in back. According to this video, tongue weight is 600 lbs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltMgL4t6N1I) I expect the trailer and rzr to weigh 3.5K LBS but that's a guestimate. Worth noting: I’ve heard the recommendation that some of the trailer can go under the camper and that the hitch extension doesn't necessarily need to stick past the camper. the thing to note is that the trailer jack and handle is 10” from the ball receiver and stick up high enough that it could hit the tailgate. I can consider removing and buying a smaller side frame jack if this solves some problems. I agree I need to get the camper weighed. |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/08/23 12:05am
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Now that you posted a pic, either that camper ain’t 10’ long or that’s a long bed. 10’ camper would be sticking 3-1/2” out the back of that short bed. I’ll assume the half pic of the truck bed ain’t hiding an 8’ bed? You don’t need even need the tailgate unless the camper is flimsy. And if it ain’t, then it’s not putting any real weight on it anyways. Unless you have it shimmed up on the tailgate. There’s nothing wrong with that setup and much to do about nothing. Our old camper stuck out about a foot further and I used an 18” extension with multiple trailers. Keep your hitch receiver for now and figure out how it fits with the jack or put a fold up jack on the trailer. Don’t worry about c of g of the camper, nor your tongue weight. Now don’t go and say that camper is on someone else’s long bed or you’re back in the same boat mostly…lol. And communication skillz are important… |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/08/23 12:08am
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And yeah weigh the camper because there’s no way it’s only a little over 2klb, but it’s nowhere near 4k unless you have it crammed full of heavy ****. Regardless. You’re fine |
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Posted By: mkirsch
on 08/08/23 06:07am
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Miguel951 wrote: Just read that someone didn't recommend a weight distribution hitch for an extension. Interesting. Could you explain? I think I see a reason but just looking to be more educated on this. Is it because it could bend or kink the bar? A WDH is not an anti-gravity device. It uses leverage to perform its function. Basically it is "prying up" on the rear of the truck. Stuck a bar or pipe or any sort of long lever-like instrument into the receiver, get out on the end of it, and lift up. Same idea. It all goes back to those lessons you should have gotten in 7-8th grade "Physical Science" class about levers and torques. The longer the lever arm, the more force is applied. A hitch extension is very much a longer lever, and it has to be designed for the forces applied by the WDH. The Curt/Reese 24-35" extension for 2-1/2" receivers is rated for some WDH (6000lbs), and the Torklift products for sure are. Others that may be out there may or may not be. They might hold up, and they might not. At least if you get one that's officially rated, you can be fairly confident that it's going to perform its function. Unrated there will always be a significant doubt in the back of your mind which takes all the fun out of driving. |
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Posted By: Bedlam
on 08/08/23 06:36am
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I expect the rear of the truck to weigh 2750-3000 lbs unloaded. Your 2003 has the same 9250 lb rated Visteon Sterling 10.5" axle they still use today on the F250, but your brakes are smaller. Your setup is limited by the 7280 lb limit of tires and rims, so you have between 4000-4500 lbs of actual capacity but will be over both RAWR and GVWR door frame stickers. You still need to put the truck on a scale and measure front axle weight when empty and loaded. This will tell you if the CG of the camper is too far back behind the rear axle. BTW: Both my Artic Fox and current Host are rear heavy if my tanks are empty. |
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Posted By: Grit dog
on 08/08/23 09:56am
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You don’t need a wdh or the hassle of additional considerations with that truck, camper and trailer even if you truly will have a 600lb tongue weight. You got newer better wheels that have great capacity tires. The 7200lbs for the wheels IS the limiting factor if you choose to follow it. OE rims are hard to find ratings for but it’s pretty universal they’re thought to be or are rated for 35-3600lbs. And they are very durable at those weights and a bit more. (Think about the OE mfgs liability with their wheels on the millions of HD pickups that get abused and misused regularly. If they were failing every time or any time someone overloaded them a bit, just the negative publicity alone, not even getting to liability cost, would be a death sentence for an OEM. Hence they’re all over designed. Proof? None actual, besides, watching, driving, repairing or being responsible for 100s of HD pickups over the years used in construction by anyone from folks like me to hundreds or thousands of employees who can barely sleep their name (sometimes literally) but are goin to get the job done that day… Real world personal TC example. Short bed Dodge 2500 on OE 17” alloys and later OE 20” alloys. Real world rear axle weights from the 7200lb range to approaching 8klbs depending on the trailer. 20-30k miles of loaded driving including the Alaska Highway at the upper and of the range and all over AK at the lower end (far worse highways (frost heaves) than most anywhere in the L48) and never an issue with tires or wheels. Another thing worth considering, idk if you own the trailer you describe or just planning for the smallest trailer that will haul that buggy. But a slightly longer tandem axle basic utility or car hauler trailer will provide you far more latitude in optimizing tongue weight and also stability/durability of the trailer. Trailers are easy to sell/purchase and not a huge difference in total expense if you’re smart and patient. Added bonus, with any TC, storage space is at a premium. Especially if you’re packing gear, parts and fuel for a hot rod SxS as you are. A bit bigger, lot better, trailer will afford you a bunch of space for not only tongue weight adjustment but also more storage options. Worth thinking about. |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/08/23 01:14pm
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Thank you everyone, for all the wonderful and helpful feedback. Things are looking up and this sure seems way more plausible now. the camper is on a 6.75' bed for sure. will get the truck weighed and I think I will upgrade to a 2.5" hitch as well if it makes sense. Additional feedback is welcomed. My apologies for the lack of data at first, crazy how the responses change when you give the right information |
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Posted By: 3 tons
on 08/08/23 01:38pm
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Note, that when considering the 18” extension, add to that the length of the inserted ball hitch to arrive at the overall length, thus you may be able to get by with just a 18” extension… 3 tons |
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Posted By: Miguel951
on 08/08/23 03:03pm
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Thank you for recommendation. I will be sure to include hitch into measurement
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