Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Towing: Escalade/Denali or Suburban 2500

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Topic: Escalade/Denali or Suburban 2500

Posted By: Gold on 04/02/21 07:21am

I’m considering buying a 2010 Escalade/Yukon XL Denali or a similar year Suburban 2500.
I currently have a great running 2003 Suburban 1500 5.3L 285hp autoride which I’ve upgraded with stiffer z51 springs and has fresh GM autoride shocks. I recently obtained a 20 foot v-nose toy hauler, I’m guessing the weight of the loaded trailer (and people/cargo in the suburban) is 6,000 lbs. Fortunately it’s very level and stable when towing because I can’t have a WDH as the v-nose on the trailer prevents a WDH from being used.
My issue is that I simply run out of power with the Suburban. I can’t use cruise control on the highway as just the slightest incline (or even the wake of a truck) will cause the Suburban to gear hunt, and even when not using cruise control it’s hard to maintain 60 mph.
I’m considering either a 2010 Escalade ESV/Yukon Denali XL (both have 6.2L 402HP 1500 chassis), or a similar year Suburban 2500 which has the 6L 355HP 2500 chassis.
I’m more attracted to the Escalade/Denali as they are quite a bit less expensive and exponentially easier to find (and have a bigger engine and 47 more HP), but can it tow ‘as fast’ as the Escalade/Denali despite it having 47 less HP that I should consider it. Thank you in advance for your insight.

Posted By: Lwiddis on 04/02/21 07:25am

Finding a 3/4 ton burb in good condition of that age group will be a challenge IMO.

Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2022 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, WindyNation 300 watt solar-Lossigy 200 AH Lithium battery. Prefer boondocking, USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state camps. Bicyclist. 14 yr. Army -11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad

Posted By: Curly2001 on 04/02/21 08:10am

Whatever you do make sure it has the best rear end gear ratio you can get. Most of those trucks have 3:23 gears which suck for towing. I would find something with at least 3:73 gears to make things tow better. The rear end ratio will kill you if not. Had a Tahoe years ago that had a 3:23 and I burned up the rear end as well as had very poor towing performance.
Curly

2019 Chev. Double cab 2500HD, 6.0, 4:10 diffs, six speed auto
2013 Heartland Sundance XLT 265RK

Posted By: opnspaces on 04/02/21 08:25am

Is this replacement vehicle a daily drive or just a tow vehicle? If just a tow vehicle I would go with the 2500 Suburban. I have no factual evidence that the 2010 Suburban 2500 has a 4:10 rear end. But my two 2500 Suburbans both have/had a 4.10 rear end so I'll bet it does.

If a daily driver and a decent rear end (3:73 or 4:10) go with the Escalade. It's not a great tow vehicle, but it will do fine with a 6,000 lb trailer. And it will be a nice vehicle to drive around when not towing.

I'm curious though why a V nose trailer would prevent you from having a weight distribution hitch? Is it a contact during turns concern? Almost all of the hitches hang under the tongue so they should not contact anything.

One more thing, don't be put off or reject a Suburban with just a torn up drivers seat. You can buy new seat cover and foam as needed and install for about $500. I'm not talking about just an add on seat cover but an actual replaced seat that will look like new. I know in my search for a replacement Suburban I passed up many seemingly good Suburbans based solely on the torn up seats. Only after I finally found my current Suburban (with an already replaced bottom seat cover) that I learned that it was even possible.

2001 Suburban 4x4. 6.0L, 4.10 3/4 ton
2005 Jayco Jay Flight 27BH
1986 Coleman Columbia Popup.

Posted By: Grit dog on 04/02/21 08:44am

Good responses thus far.
You already know the Esc/Denali will handle the trailer just fine. And you are ahead of most inthat you can slap a heavier rear suspension in it if you desire. (And that’s a cheap bang for the buck towing upgrade)
I’d lean towards that for power and value.
BUT if you’re thinking long term, chances of getting a new HD suv, ever, in the future, are slim. So if you can get a good low mileage one now and take care of it, you’ll have the better vehicle in the long run and have your cake and eat it too for however long that one lasts.
Btw, if you pick up the 2500 and it’s not enough juice, a Westers or black bear tune and set of headers will net you a little more than the Denali engine. Just headers is good for 20+Hp and around 60 with a real tune and premium gas. Not huge but noticeable.

2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Posted By: camp-n-family on 04/02/21 10:03pm

There is an adapter kit available to use a wd hitch with a v-nose trailer.

'17 Ram 2500 Crewcab Laramie CTD
'13 Keystone Bullet Premier 310BHPR
Hitched by Hensley

Posted By: Gold on 04/03/21 12:07am

Gents (I’m assuming it’s all gents, but let me add Ladies and Gents just in case). I apologize in advance with my newness to all of this and thank you for the thoughtful and timely replies. My current ‘03 Suburban is used for longer toy trailer tows by me, and then my wife and I use just truck a couple times a week trips loaded with meals from a food bank to a shelter, and our dogs to a dog park. The main frustration is I’m just challenged to maintain freeway speeds even on the flats with my current 5.3L Suburban 4 spd when towing the heavier toy trailer. When thinking about an upgrade it would be nicer to do all of this in an ironically much less expensive Escalade or Denali, but could all be done in a suburban 2500 as well.

I was told by AAdams, a reputable trailer retailer north of Chicago that I could not add a wdh as the V on the trailer used up too much space. I haven’t measured, but my guess is the distance from the V to the ball is less than 2 feet. While I suppose it would be nice to have, the truck and the trailer are very stable when towing, no sway on the highway, brakes well (when I have the brake controller set correctly!). Do I need a wdh if my truck is level with Autoride. I have an adjustable hitch, the truck/trailer are perfectly level, and again, tows great....it’s just slow! My issue is its hard to comfortably maintain the speed limit so I’m currently the slow guy in the right lane that you look at and say, ‘doesn’t he have anything else to do today” as you whizz past!

The rear end suggestions are a great idea. How do I determine what rear end gearing a used truck might have? Is that something that can be deciphered from the VIN?

Again, thank you for your feedback!

Posted By: Seon on 04/03/21 08:30am

I just sold my '07 Yukon XL 4wd 5.3L with a Hensley hitch that I towed my 28' travel trailer. Had plenty of power even climbing mountains to 6000' elevation. It's all in the gearing.
I considered upgrading to a 2500 Yukon/Suburban but decided to replace it with a Ford e350 1 ton van for the extra interior room for hauling more stuff that the wife likes to carry when headed out to camp.

BTW I read bad reviews on Escalade as TV.

Posted By: Curly2001 on 04/03/21 08:33am

From what I remember there is a tag on the rear diff that you can use to find out what the ratio is on it. Could be a code on the tag in the door or you could find it possibly through the VIN.
Curly

Posted By: Grit dog on 04/03/21 09:56am

I’d research how to easily tell gear ratio. But I suspect the RPO codes are indicative.
Regarding a wdh, you are thinking like most non travel trailer haulers who don’t automatically believe a wdh is required. And having had an auto ride tahoe, I can say the system is not overly robust for payload. Therefore if it will pick up and carry your tongue weight without issue, then it’s close to or within reasonable payload.
Our 01 tahoe we had last year briefly would pick up the tongue weight of our 32’ v nose sled trailer. But the tongue was not heavily loaded. Only had 3 machines in it and they were placed back a bit for cog.

Posted By: wnjj on 04/03/21 10:27am

Some GM vehicles have a list of RPO codes in the globvebox.

https://www.differentials.com/gm-axle-ratio-identification-codes/

Posted By: Sjm9911 on 04/03/21 11:40am

What exactly are you towing? Guessing its 6000 lbs may be a mistake. You shoyld be able to tow that , maybe not accelerate as fast, but you should get to speed. Im thinking it may be heavier then you think.

2012 kz spree 220 ks
2020 Silverado 2500
Equalizer ( because i have it)
Formerly a pup owner.

Posted By: Seon on 04/03/21 12:01pm

Hey OP, I just re-read your post and nothing mentioned that you have the "Tow" feature on. If the transmission is constantly downshifting on level ground then that to me is an indicator that you're still driving in "overdrive" and not in the tow mode.

Posted By: BenK on 04/03/21 12:02pm

Agree, weigh your setup, axle by axle to know where you are

Also, with a guesstimated trailer weight of 6,000...you are most likely over the dead weight rating of your reciever.

Most Suburban OEM receivers dead weight rating is 500 lbs

To check what diff ratio, either check the RPO codes as others have recommended.

If bought used...previous owner(s) may have changed the diff ratio

Consider tieing a length of string to the driveshaft.

Then roll the vehicle one tire rev. Use a valve stem as a datum.

Then count the number of string turns. That will be the diff ratios whole number

Fractions if a turn left will be the diff ratios fractional number.

3 whole turns is a 3.xx

3/4 of a turn is x.73

Remove the string...

Edit...assume you are NOT towing in OD if no tow/hail function on your dash

-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Posted By: Gold on 04/03/21 07:15pm

Thank you all for your reply’s. I have heard that gearing would help. What gearing did you have on your ‘07 Yukon?

Also, what negatives have you heard about the Escalade? Should I assume that whatever is negative on the Escalade also applies to the Denali as they are largely the same vehicle?

Posted By: Gold on 04/03/21 07:25pm

I do have the tow haul turned on always when towing. The difference that is clearly felt with tow/haul on is firmer shifts at a later rpm. The downshifting issue from 4th to 3rd at highway speeds is with tow/haul turned on. Cruise control is basically not useable as any slight acceleration cruise needs to maintain speed will cause a downshift. I can go faster (barely the speed limit) if I don’t use cruise and try to hold a steady foot at the Max power I can hold in 4th gear right before it would downshift to third. My other trick is to put the computer on “instant mpg”. 4th gear at 9MPG is the magic number to maintain. The slight acceleration that would drop instant mpg to 8mpg will result in a downshift to third even with tow/haul on.

Posted By: Gold on 04/03/21 09:40pm

I am guessing at the weight of the trailer. It’s an 18ft v toy hauler with dual 10k lb axles. It has a 2375 lb car inside, and I’ve estimated under 500 lb of misc. gear.

Posted By: Grit dog on 04/03/21 10:22pm

Pretty sure all the Denali’s and Escalades are 3.42 gears.
400+ Hp and the 6 speed will blow the doors off of a 4 speed 5.3.

Posted By: Seon on 04/04/21 07:33am

Gold wrote:

Yukon had 3.73

The Denali is a GMC Yukon with added Bling Blings.

Do a search 'Escalade towing pros and cons' and decide if that's the vehicle you want.

Here's three youtube on Escalades that may interest you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7_XgpFecPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50OJguHtpm0 mark 2.06 min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTXuzeu6PTc

Best of luck.

* This post was edited 04/04/21 07:53am by Seon *

Posted By: BenK on 04/04/21 11:07am

Haven't checked in a few years, but the AWD system has a viscus 3rd member (3rd differential inside the transfer case and uses a fluid to couple and provide the slippage needed for AWD).

That viscous 3rd member used to be a weak point when towing heavy and serious off-roading.

So, it will depend on how big your trailer is and if any serious off-roading is your plans. There is nothing 'wrong' with this, just know that it has limits

Posted By: APT on 04/05/21 08:00am

All 3/4 ton Suburbans (and Yukon XLs) 2008-2013 have 3.73 axle ratios. That helps make up some power difference from the 6.2L with 3.42 axles, but the 3/4 tons are also heavier.

For your targeted weight, either should be fine. Since you are not using a WDH, you may want to budget some some for of rear suspension aid such as Timbrens or Air Bags.

* This post was edited 04/06/21 05:52am by APT *

A & A parents of DD 2005, DS1 2007, DS2 2009
2011 Suburban 2500 6.0L 3.73 pulling 2011 Heartland North Trail 28BRS
2017 Subaru Outback 3.6R
2x 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV (Gray and Black Twins)

Posted By: cptqueeg on 04/05/21 08:24am

Burb 2500 all the way towing 6000lbs. They could be ordered w 3.73 or 4.10. It's worth the extra $$ to have the heavier running gear.

Posted By: falconbrother on 04/07/21 09:41am

I tow my travel trailer with a 2000 Suburban, 5.3, Sumo SuperSprings. It's 5800 dry. I figure, without water, I'm still plenty over 6,000 Lbs. Yeah, it's slow going and I drive it easy. I have looked at 2500 series Suburbans, Avalanches, etc.. With the 8.0 they are a little cheaper but, I don't want that engine. The 6.0 versions can be quite expensive, considering year and mileage. I keep kicking myself because I saw a 1996, 2500-454 V-8, 4x4, low miles on a lot a couple of years ago reasonably cheap. And it was as shiny as a new penny. I passed on it. That 454 is a hoss and would have been a great vehicle for towing. Not much of a daily driver mind you.. I keep passively looking. And I haven't ruled out a 3/4 ton Chevy or GMC van with the 6.0.

BTW, the chassis does fine. No complaints with the WDH. And, if you could ride around at 3200+ RPMs the power would be fine..

Posted By: BenK on 04/07/21 10:39am

falconbrother,

Here is my 1996 GMT400, K3500, 7.4L, 4.11, Suburban's picture. Tongue-on-cheek K3500 because ordered it with the F60 option. Which is snow plow prep package, which gets the 1 ton front suspension torsion bars and since the rear end is the same as the 1 ton dully of that year... [emoticon]

Sold the boat and only occasional borrow a TT to camp with

Itching to 'have' to rebuild the engine and then an of course the tranny & rest of the drive train. Plus 4.88 or 5.xx front and rear diffs with a GearVendors 0.75 over drive to give an 8 speed setup.

If the OP doesn't mind an older Suburban, there are a few out there that were still truck like.

GMT400 has a few things that need to be addressed and improved. Mainly the brakes, but after converting mine to the same rear dually brakes...nose bleed braking. Even touchy, which is okay with me

Posted By: Grit dog on 04/07/21 05:31pm

GMT400s are still best of the breed on several accounts, IMO. Anything older will require this n that for repairs. Since "there's no demand" for HD suvs as some claim, you'd think they'd be paying you to take them gas hogs, but around here, a Burb like BenK's with low 100s for miles is a $10k rig.
IMO, the GMT 400s generally didn't have any fatal flaws (if you don't get into the 6.5 diesels...) and relatively easy to improve certain aspects, like the dually rear wheel cylinders. I did that cheap mod years ago, it was great.
Only thing better is if you could get a GMT 400 big block K2500 burb with the NV4500 that you could get in the pickups!

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