Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: Ram 1500 at Load Maximum Woes

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Topic: Ram 1500 at Load Maximum Woes

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 07:11am

Everyone knows that the Ram 1500 has very low GVWR. Well I would go a step further after towing with it for four years, when close to the maximum, it is under-sprung and sometimes dangerous.

I did end up adding air bags, but simply wanted a more stable platform, and I am NOT buying a 3/4 or 1 ton that rides rough when empty. I should also say that I have no intentions to exceed the maximum allowed by Ram.... I just want more firmness and stability.

So...... I added HD Progressive Springs and the Air Lift 1000HD.

Here is what our rig normally looks like when leaving for a camping trip.

[image]

Here are the pics of what I did.......

The pic of the truck is a little dark and hard to see, but the Billstein's up front raise the truck 1.8" and the TTC-1223VT Springs raise the rear 2". Those are 34's on those 20" rims.

Can't wait to hit the road on our next camping trip. Since I have added the necessary bits and pieces to our camper to make it "Four Seasons", we will take it up to the mountains a couple of times in February and March, as a base camp for a long weekend of skiing.

[image]

Thanks, John

2021 Gulf Stream Conquest 6237LE
w/ Ford 7.3L V8

Posted By: 2oldman on 02/03/21 07:26am

huge pictures

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 07:31am

Yeah... nearly all other forums I frequent, auto size pics.... this forum should start doing the same.

Posted By: goducks10 on 02/03/21 07:46am

Thats the biggest truck I've ever seen. Where in the world can you find roads big enough for it? [emoticon]

Posted By: MFL on 02/03/21 08:09am

That load does not look too dangerous to me! I have a pic taken many years ago, with my first trailer, and a new F150 loaded with 2 dirt bikes in backward, one that you can't see is on other side of the GoldWing. Fairing removed from GW is in the trailer. So 3 bikes, plus gear, gas, etc, in truck bed, no suspension improvements.

[image]

Yup, overloaded, but who knew?? I was just a kid, no danger though! Still invincible at that time! [emoticon]

Jerry

Posted By: Groover on 02/03/21 08:26am

The thing that jumped out at me was all the ice on the ground! It takes a determined man to work on his truck when it is that cold.

Your solution looks great to me. I hope that you are happy with it. You might want to upgrade the shocks at some point to help handle the heavier loads.

Posted By: TurnThePage on 02/03/21 09:26am

I tried Timbrens on my Ram 1500. Terrible ride empty and loaded. I then tried a heavier progressive spring. It was better, but still not what was needed. Ultimately, I added springs that were 50% stiffer. They have been great. Ride is still good and it handles even overloaded conditions very well now.

I like your solution, but think if I do anymore, it'll probably be Sumospring bump stops.

2015 Ram 1500
2022 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE

Posted By: spoon059 on 02/03/21 09:49am

jnoflane2 wrote:

I am NOT buying a 3/4 or 1 ton that rides rough when empty.

No comment on what you did, but wanted to address this... Have you driven a modern 3/4 or 1 ton truck? My coil spring 2500 rides very smooth when empty and tires aired down to 65ish. One of the guys that we camp with has a newish Ford F350 dually that rides smooth as glass... it was almost unbelievable how compliant the ride was.

20 years ago there was a huge disparity in ride comfort. You'd be hard pressed to tell a significant difference in ride comfort with modern trucks.

Back to your topic though...

2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

Posted By: QCMan on 02/03/21 09:58am

I didn't see where you upgraded the parts that actually do the work, the axle shafts and bearings. Sorry but I cannot understand how adding more weight to the vehicle can increase the payload. All you are doing is compensating for the overload. Not any safer at all!

2020 Keystone Cougar 22RBS, Ram 1500, two Jacks and plenty of time to roam!
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. A.E.
Good Sam Life Member

Posted By: camperfamily on 02/03/21 10:32am

Having driven a RAM 1500 with just a small ATV in the bed I can't say I'd be comfortable with your set up. But then my DD is a 1ton diesel pickup.

Just be safe out there and enjoy!

2011 Cougar 322QBS
2007 Pilgrim 278BHSS (Sold)
2023 F359 CCLB 7.3
2013 F350 CC LB 6.7 (Retired)
2002 F350 CC LB PS (Retired)
B&W Companion Hitch

Posted By: Grit dog on 02/03/21 11:04am

Jnoflane2, nice work! I’m sure will be a Uuuuge improvement!

PS, don’t mind the haterz...
Interested to hear your take after loading it up on a trip.
Cheers!

2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Posted By: Grit dog on 02/03/21 11:10am

Question, since you’ve now used 2 different types of the inside the springs airbags.
How much actual load capacity do you think they provide?
Aka, were the old ones pumped up in the first pic?

I’ve now got a coil spring Ram 2500. Brodozer lookin thing. Don’t really need more suspension capacity for most of what I do but it’s got a 6”/4” lift. The rear coils are OE sitting on 4” spacers and truck is leveled. Being rather cushy for a 2500 it also gets a little Carolina squat just hooking my enclosed trailer. Handles great but looks ghey.

Don’t really want the expense of adding real bags and spacers for what little extra support I need. And these bags may be the ticket if they increase the initial spring rate enough

Posted By: dodge guy on 02/03/21 11:25am

In the first pic, I don't see a WD hitch. hopefully you just had it hooked up for the picture.

As far as 3/4, 1 tons riding rough. if you option a ram 2500 with rear air suspension it will ride nice. in fact most all 3/4 tons from the last 10 years ride nice!

Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Dog Bailey

12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway bars, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer

13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>
A bad day camping is
better than a good day at work!

Posted By: BurbMan on 02/03/21 12:08pm

jnoflane2 wrote:

Great job! Now it sits level when it's overloaded!

Posted By: LITEPHIL on 02/03/21 02:01pm

Overloaded. Need a bigger truck to be safe and within numbers. No hate

2022 Chevy Silverado RST Duramax NHT
1954 Chevy 3100 Carryall 4x4
2008 Salem T23FBL
04 FXDL Harley

Posted By: TurnThePage on 02/03/21 02:14pm

QCMan wrote:

I don't think the parts that actually do the work are overloaded. Just the soft springs. That's the case for my similar setup anyhow.

Posted By: BenK on 02/03/21 02:26pm

Curious how folks know the OP is not over/under his TV’s ratings...

Unless the OP posted actual weights from visiting a scale that I’ve missed.

OP...please post your TV’s GVWR and the RGAWR...then load up as if going camping with the trailer hooked up and weigh it, axle by axle. Then post those numbers.

Otherwise, everyone, including the OP is only guessing...

-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Posted By: time2roll on 02/03/21 02:27pm

How about drive it on a scale and post the numbers?

2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up

Posted By: IdaD on 02/03/21 03:42pm

Newer HD trucks will beat you up a little bit on rougher dirt roads, but for the most part they ride just fine and certainly not enough rougher than a half ton to cause any significant comfort difference. The main thing is to air down those rear tires a bit when you're not loaded up.

2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB

Posted By: bguy on 02/03/21 04:00pm

Did you get rid of the squishey P tires?
Sorry I did not research.

---------------------------------------
2011 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, 4x4, 3.55, HEMI
2009 TL-32BHS Trail-Lite by R-Vision

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 04:26pm

Groover wrote:

Yeah, yesterday and today were the first days since early December we have had temps above 50 degrees and I took advantage of it.

Yeah, I thought about new shocks. I have Billsteins on the front. Wonder if I should spend the dough on those for the back, or is there a more cost conscious solution?

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 04:29pm

spoon059 wrote:

jnoflane2 wrote:

I am NOT buying a 3/4 or 1 ton that rides rough when empty.

Yeah, I traded in a 2 year old, 2012 Ram 2500 for this 1500, because the rough ride..... My old man worked on cattle ranches until the day he died and all the cowboys wanted one ton trucks... Pop would never drive anything over than a 1/2 ton. Being over 50 now... I understand.

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 04:33pm

QCMan wrote:

I've already said I'm not going to overload the truck.

At lunch today, I picked up the TT out of storage to bring to the house to install heater pads on all three of my tanks, so that we can use the camper for a ski cabin. (It is now a true four season camper.)

Anyway, pulling the camper the 10 miles home was a dream. The truck and the stability and the ride are way, way better.

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 04:35pm

Grit dog wrote:

Jnoflane2, nice work! I’m sure will be a Uuuuge improvement!

PS, don’t mind the haterz...
Interested to hear your take after loading it up on a trip.
Cheers!

I also can't wait to load it up to max GVWR, with two bikes in the bed and see how she does.

Yeah... I have way too many years towing and experience to pay attention to the haterz. I know what I need and doing my setup the way I want it.

.......

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 04:41pm

Grit dog wrote:

The first set of bags were the basic 1000lb'ers from Air Lift and they made a HUGE, positive difference on my little 1500, but it still wasn't enough. This second set of airbags are the Air Lift 1000HD's, that supposedly provide additional carrying weight by 2,500lbs. Both air bags are the exact same size and the material looks the same, as well as the thickness, so I don't really know what they have done to make the HD so much stronger.

I really can't answer your question, cause I haven't towed the trailer with a full load yet.

I do think it was important for me to add the HD Progressive springs, as I am not confident that only air bags would have given me the firm foundation I was seeking.

I do think a set of 1000HD's on your truck would definitely eliminate the squat. It did on mine.

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 04:48pm

LITEPHIL wrote:

Overloaded. Need a bigger truck to be safe and within numbers. No hate

LITEPHIL wrote:

Overloaded. Need a bigger truck to be safe and within numbers. No hate

NOPE.... not overloaded.

Trailer on the hitch is 450lbs, two bikes are 650lbs.

That totals 1,100lbs. I'm actually under.

TurnThePage wrote:

QCMan wrote:

I don't think the parts that actually do the work are overloaded. Just the soft springs. That's the case for my similar setup anyhow.

Yeah, the boys above don't understand, but you clearly do. The OEM Ram springs are weak and compress easily with even 1000 lbs in the bed.

........

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 04:52pm

bguy wrote:

Did you get rid of the squishey P tires?
Sorry I did not research.

Yeah, I am sure the haterz will come out of the woodwork on this topic as well.

I am running....

275/65R20's with a 127 weight rating, 10 ply.

When not towing, a full contact patch is achieved at 37psi and the tires ride great. When towing I up the psi to 65 and they do great.

The awesome thing about these tires... I have 43,000 miles on them and not a single flat. I tow this trailer WAY in the backcountry, usually having to engage 4x4 to get to some of the places I enjoy. Tires have been great.

Posted By: Huntindog on 02/03/21 06:07pm

Specifications for the OPs TT

I am not a hater.
I do like to deal with facts though.

I am going to get some popcorn now. [emoticon]

Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW

Posted By: jnoflane2 on 02/03/21 06:28pm

Huntindog wrote:

Specifications for the OPs TT

I am not a hater.
I do like to deal with facts though.

I am going to get some popcorn now. [emoticon]

Yep... as I said, 450lbs on my hitch.

I actually pay attention to load leveling, especially with a single axle trailer.

.........

Posted By: JIMNLIN on 02/03/21 07:39pm

your a brave man coming on rv.net and show how you increased your 1/2 ton any brand trucks rear suspension capability to better control your load. However without any actual scaled rear axle weights I doubt your overloaded with that small single axle TT and two lightweight dirt bikes. GVWR doesn't carry the load in the bed but the trucks RAWR numbers do. Looks like a good rear suspension upgrade.
I added Sumo Springs to the rear suspension on the wifes 1500 chevy crew cab 4wd. Even with a 1140 lb hitch load the truck is still 400 lbs under its 4000 RAWR.
Maybe you can get a mod to size your pictures to the proper scale where we can see what ya got.

"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides

Posted By: specta on 02/03/21 07:53pm

jnoflane2 wrote:

Yeah... nearly all other forums I frequent, auto size pics.... this forum should start doing the same.

That would take an upgrade. Something that will never happen here.

Try Postimages.com It will resize them for you.

Kenny
1996 Jayco 376FB Eagle Series TT
1997 Jayco 246FB Eagle Series TT
1976 Ford F-250 4wd Mercury Marauder 410 - 4V
Regular cabs. The best looking trucks.

Posted By: specta on 02/03/21 07:55pm

Grit dog wrote:

Jnoflane2, nice work! I’m sure will be a Uuuuge improvement!

PS, don’t mind the haterz...
Interested to hear your take after loading it up on a trip.
Cheers!

Best advise so far.

Posted By: specta on 02/03/21 07:58pm

IdaD wrote:

The main thing is to air down those rear tires a bit when you're not loaded up.

When empty I run 50 psi in the front and 45 psi in the rear.
Its a HUGE improvement in the way it rides.

Posted By: RoyJ on 02/04/21 02:14am

jnoflane2 wrote:

NOPE.... not overloaded.

Trailer on the hitch is 450lbs, two bikes are 650lbs.

That totals 1,100lbs. I'm actually under.

Thank you for posting the facts.

Folks are quick to jump the gun, and claim overload. As a fellow 1500 owner, I can say the rear would sag if you looked at them wrong...

Some trucks on the other hand, are so stiffly sprung they look "safe" when truly overloaded. My old 2500 V10 at DOUBLE the payload limit, sags less than the 1500 at payload. Looks are deceiving.

Posted By: Huntindog on 02/04/21 02:18am

jnoflane2 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Specifications for the OPs TT

I am not a hater.
I do like to deal with facts though.

I am going to get some popcorn now. [emoticon]

Yep... as I said, 450lbs on my hitch.

I actually pay attention to load leveling, especially with a single axle trailer.

.........

437# DRY hitch WT. Add a battery and you are over 450#.

There are only two ways that TT can have 450# hitch WT. 1. You are going camping with an empty TT.
2. You have it loaded heavy in the rear..... Which would explain why you feel it is sometimes dangerous. (TW too light)

Posted By: pitch on 02/04/21 05:54am

QCMan wrote:

OH NANCY NANCY! He did upgrade the parts that are doing the work. He put new springs on. Did he raise the rating of his truck listed on the plaque? No he did not! He did however increase his trucks capabilities and usefulness.
It is highly unlikely that he will ever load or haul heavy enough for his axles or bearings even to notice.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 02/04/21 06:47am

What load range are your tires?

2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Posted By: 2oldman on 02/04/21 07:59am

specta wrote:

Try Postimages.com It will resize them for you.

You don't have to resize them. Just add a height or width parameter as Burbman did:

[image]

Posted By: shelbyfv on 02/04/21 08:41am

never mind

* This post was edited 02/04/21 08:49am by shelbyfv *

Posted By: Huntindog on 02/05/21 01:55am

Huntindog wrote:

jnoflane2 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Specifications for the OPs TT

I am not a hater.
I do like to deal with facts though.

I am going to get some popcorn now. [emoticon]

Yep... as I said, 450lbs on my hitch.

I actually pay attention to load leveling, especially with a single axle trailer.

.........

Since the OP seems to have left..... I will finish what I was going to say to benefit others that may not realize just what is involved in towing/camping with a TT.

The OP atated that he has added heat pads to all three tanks....In order to make it a "true 4 season" TT.... Having actually camped in pretty cold temps (below zero), I can tell you that heat pads alone will not do that... In fact the tanks freezing are not the main concern. The water lines will freeze much sooner.... It does no good to have fresh water in the tank, if you cannot use it! Then there is the small single 5 gallon propane supply. Using the furnace in below freezing temps will use that up fast.... But he likely won't be able to use all of it, as the battery will die first! Camping in a TT in cold temps off the grid requires a large propane supply, and a generator to keep the battery charged.
That means more weight.
And since the OP has stated a desire to use this TT in cold temps, and installed the heat pads to try to make it possible....It is logical to assume that he intends to use the on board water system.That means that the water (and it's weight) will be leaving the fresh tank and ending up in the grey/black tanks.
While I do not know exactly how the OPs tanks are layed out... The toilet is in the front. So that is where the black tank is. The kitchen sink is right behind it, so it is a pretty good bet that is where the grey tank is. That means the fresh is probably located towards the rear. His fresh water weighs 256#. When he uses it, that weight will leave the rear of the TT and end up in the front.
This is obviously a problem. In addition many other weights will move around in the course of a trip.

This is why "cutting it close" with the TV is generally a bad thing.
While there are ways to deal with all of the issues, it will limit ones ability to use the unit in a way they may like.

Solutions can be only staying in campgrounds or having items such as propane or even food delivered (door dash)
Not using the onboard water system etc.

In addition the OP stated several times that his truck has a low GVWR. He is assuming that the springs are the limiting factor. This can be an expensive assumption.
There are many parts that go into what the engineers set the GVWR at. They will never disclose just what the weak link is.
It could be a seal in the tranny that is .50 cheaper than the same tranny in a heavier duty truck.... You just don't know.

But in the final anaylisis the OP never stated that he has actually weighed his lashup.
When one is "cutting it close", this is really important.
But it is human nature to avoid things that you would have to deal with if you know about them.

So many will simply not look at these issues and hope it all works out OK.
Some will be lucky. Perhaps they don't camp very much and trade vehicles often... But some will not be lucky.

Happy camping.

* This post was edited 02/05/21 12:02pm by Huntindog *

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 02/05/21 07:45am

It's been over 12 hours so I will ask again, what load range are your tires.

Posted By: Grit dog on 02/05/21 09:20am

Some of y'all cant just say "Looks nice, have a good day" and move on, can ya?

My main question is are you this overtly critical in the real world, day to day, face to face, or is it just the internet courage that makes your inner antagonist come out?

Posted By: Grit dog on 02/05/21 09:28am

And the OP isn't "cutting anything close" on the truck with that dinky @ss camper.
I'm more amazed everyday, although should expect it here, that someone would try to overanalyze the OP's winter prep scheme (especially with the OP clearly exuding his knowledge and skills, not some "what can I tow" newby question), not only from a winter prep standpoint, but to then wrap it back into a weight discussion!

My buddy, thanks to his, umm, princess wife, ended up with a little baby Airstream and he's been relegated to their only personal vehicle being a Volvo wanna be SUV (poor guy, different story).
Similar size and weight to the OP's camper.
I've rode with him. Camper plopped on a hitch on the back of the Volvo, no wdh, and down the road they go. Handles well, stops fine with the remote add on cellphone trailer brakes. Heck, it doesn't even sag too much. It might all loaded up with everything but the kitchen sink for the princess and the kids though.
Point is, it's half the tow rig that a newer Ram 1500 is and it's JUST FINE.

Posted By: MFL on 02/05/21 10:57am

Grit dog wrote:

Don't know if it was all that BRIGHT BLUE, that got your panties in a wad. I can't look at it long enough to read much of it. Makes my cataracts throb!

Jerry

Posted By: mtofell1 on 02/05/21 11:06am

BenK wrote:

Curious how folks know the OP is not over/under his TV’s ratings...

Because dirt bikes aren't made of foam [emoticon]

Posted By: Grit dog on 02/05/21 11:41am

MFL wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Don't know if it was all that BRIGHT BLUE, that got your panties in a wad. I can't look at it long enough to read much of it. Makes my cataracts throb!

Jerry

Nothin's in a wad (how d0 you know I wear my wife's underwear though?...).
It's just discouraging to see the same drivel every day. Doesn't matter to a poster like the OP here, because he has a head on his shoulders and obviously understands what he's doing, but the mass proliferation of towing and payload paranoia makes me think some of these folks are sponsored by the UAW, to help keep them in business by getting people to upgrade their vehicles unnecessarily and often!

Just trying to keep it real for the folks who are actually looking for knowledge and not some party line cr@p from people who are exspurts because they bought a camper trailer!

Posted By: Huntindog on 02/05/21 12:11pm

Grit dog wrote:

Yes. It is because I deal in facts.... Not the way I would prefer they be. The way they are.

And having been here a really long time, I know that letting some bad info go unchallenged will result in some newbie reading it and making a mistake. I of course realize that their are different opinions on everything.... But being quiet, or worse saying "Looks good have a nice day" is not the answer.
At least when something is challenged, then the newbie may do some more research before making up his/her mind.

Posted By: Grit dog on 02/06/21 10:23am

^Bit there’s no bad info, no magical light duty $.50 seal that makes the truck lighter duty.
None of that (within reason).
But that’s the difference between those that understand and those that refuse to understand.
It’s a proliferation of paranoia or something on this forum.
Heck the new thread about the guy going to trade up his F150 to 3/4ton diesel to pull his 8k TT around, almost immediately get like 3 different posts about “check the payload on the new truck”, “you should get a 3500 so you’re not overloaded”, etc. And all he was doing was asking if there were any things in particular to look out for with that model of truck. Like reliability stuff. It was already a given that the new truck is more than capable and frankly 1 size larger than necessary.

Given “most” members here are at least old enough to sign up for AARP, at what point in your lives did all of a sudden, newer, more capable trucks become less capable in your minds?
Was it the advent of the internet or some other phenomena?

Posted By: pitch on 02/07/21 06:22am

God Bless ya dawg! Your selfless acts of valor and speaking truth against internet doctorates have saved thousands of families and their victims from flaming RV's flying off of cliffs into bus loads of blind nuns

Bless you!

* This post was edited 02/07/21 08:13am by pitch *

Posted By: shelbyfv on 02/07/21 06:32am

pitch wrote:

God Bless ya dawg! Your selfless acts of valor and speaking truth against internet doctorates have save thousands of families and their victims from flaming RV's flying off of cliffs into bus loads of blind nuns

Bless you!

FIFY

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