Jerry Parr
05 Mandalay 40B
Cat C7 350
04 Honda CR-V
Ham Radio K7OU
Retired EE
[email protected]
602-321-8141
Full-timer
2015 GMC Canyon 3.6L V6 4X4 TowHaul SLE ExtCab Bronze
2016 Keystone Passport GT 2670BH
ReCurve R6 hitch, DirecLink brake controller
2005 Suzuki C50 2006 Suzuki S40
Flute Man wrote:
You have to find a way to load the front of the trailer.
You have to find a way to load the front of the trailer.
Yep. As heavy as you can get it in the front. As long as you have enough truck, you will never regret more tongue weight (within reason).
1992 D250 Cummins 5psd
2005 Forest River T26 Toy Hauler
2020 GMC Canyon
2022 NoBo 19.2
2021 Ram Limited, 3500, Crew Cab, 1075FTPD of Torque!, Max Tow, Long bed, 4 x 4, Dually,
2006 40' Landmark Mt. Rushmore
2005 2500 Cummins/48RE/3.73, QCLB, 4wd, BigHorn, Edge Juice w/ CTS + Turbo Timer,Transgo Shift Kit ISSPro Oil and LP pressure gauges, GDP 20/2 filters, Custom Diesel Steering Box Brace
'10 Forest River Shockwave Toy Hauler 21'
Honda EU3000I Genny
Most toy haulers have a high tongue weight when unloaded, so that when loaded, it's still a decent amount.
What are the weights you measured?
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
DIRT BIKES RULE
'12 Duramax CC short bed
2019 Wildcat Maxx 285RKX
Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
- gross weight - 7120 lb
Truck and dry trailer
-steer axle - 3760 lb
- drive axle - 4400 lb
- trailer axle - 4860 lb
- gross weight - 13020 lb
Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
- trailer axle - 7240 lb
- gross weight 15020 lb
This weight was with the X3 backed in. Based on my calculations, which may or may not be accurate, it appears the dry tongue weight is roughly 17%. When loaded, the tongue weight drops below 9%. My thoughts are that the axle placement is way too far forward on a unit that only weighs 5900 pounds and offers a CCC of 2200 pounds, especially if the majority of that weight is in the garage.
* This post was edited 06/20/19 10:12am by Spyingeye *
eHoefler wrote:
Load your SXS backwards, the rear engine will be tail heavy.
Load your SXS backwards, the rear engine will be tail heavy.
X-2
You are losing a good bit of weight off the front axle in the unloaded condition.
But yeah, the hitch weight seems really light when loaded.
Spyingeye wrote:
So the dry weight of the hauler is 5900 lbs. the CCC is 2200 lbs. I tried backing in the X3 and filing the freshwater. It’s only a 30 gallon tank, in the center of RV, so it added roughly 240 lbs. Problem is, once it’s loaded with x3, full tank and misc camping gear we come close to exceeding the GVWR. I even took 200 pounds of dumbbells that I had in my house and put them in the front pass through. Here are the weight measurements from the cat scale.
Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
- gross weight - 7120 lb
Truck and dry trailer
-steer axle - 3760 lb
- drive axle - 4400 lb
- trailer axle - 4860 lb
- gross weight - 13020 lb
Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
- trailer axle - 7240 lb
- gross weight 15020 lb
This weight was with the X3 backed in. Based on my calculations, which may or may not be accurate, it appears the dry tongue weight is roughly 17%. When loaded, the tongue weight drops below 9%. My thoughts are that the axle placement is way too far forward on a unit that only weighs 5900 pounds and offers a CCC of 2200 pounds, especially if the majority of that weight is in the garage.
I would say your spot on with the axle to far forward. I bet that was one wild ride with the sway.
So the dry weight of the hauler is 5900 lbs. the CCC is 2200 lbs. I tried backing in the X3 and filing the freshwater. It’s only a 30 gallon tank, in the center of RV, so it added roughly 240 lbs. Problem is, once it’s loaded with x3, full tank and misc camping gear we come close to exceeding the GVWR. I even took 200 pounds of dumbbells that I had in my house and put them in the front pass through. Here are the weight measurements from the cat scale.
Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
- gross weight - 7120 lb
Truck and dry trailer
-steer axle - 3760 lb
- drive axle - 4400 lb
- trailer axle - 4860 lb
- gross weight - 13020 lb
Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
- trailer axle - 7240 lb
- gross weight 15020 lb
This weight was with the X3 backed in. Based on my calculations, which may or may not be accurate, it appears the dry tongue weight is roughly 17%. When loaded, the tongue weight drops below 9%. My thoughts are that the axle placement is way too far forward on a unit that only weighs 5900 pounds and offers a CCC of 2200 pounds, especially if the majority of that weight is in the garage.
I agree about axle placement.
2019 F350 PSD CC 4X4 Dually to pull 2006 LE3905
Lincsters Truck/Trailer
Lincsters Rail
Spyingeye wrote:
Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
IMHO, your WDH is not yet properly setup. You need to move 150-200# from your drive axle to the steering axle. The steering axle should NEVER lose weight when the loaded trailer is attached.
nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.
This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/l3JQdMN.jpg)
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#
"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"
rhagfo wrote:
Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.
This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.
nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.
This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.
If that's true, the truck in the picture is massively overloaded. It has 2000 pounds of payload at most. And if so, you answered your own question--to keep from massively overloading 3/4 ton trucks.
Rover_Bill wrote:
IMHO, your WDH is not yet properly setup. You need to move 150-200# from your drive axle to the steering axle. The steering axle should NEVER lose weight when the loaded trailer is attached.
Spyingeye wrote:
Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
IMHO, your WDH is not yet properly setup. You need to move 150-200# from your drive axle to the steering axle. The steering axle should NEVER lose weight when the loaded trailer is attached.
Steer axle is loosing too much weight, need to redo the setup for the equalizer to compensate for the loaded trailer. What works empty won't work for it loaded.
twodownzero wrote:
If that's true, the truck in the picture is massively overloaded. It has 2000 pounds of payload at most. And if so, you answered your own question--to keep from massively overloading 3/4 ton trucks.
rhagfo wrote:
Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.
This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.
nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.
This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.
If that's true, the truck in the picture is massively overloaded. It has 2000 pounds of payload at most. And if so, you answered your own question--to keep from massively overloading 3/4 ton trucks.
Yep, it sure was, or is it? the only thing supporting the trailer is the jacks under the axles so we can get the tires replaced, AND the rear axle of the TV. TV had camper package and optional 265/75-16E tires.
Dodge was very lazy in those years only GVWR on the 2500 was 8,800#, manual trans and Camper package put the same springs as the 3500 DRW (NO SRW 3500 1994 to 2002), I think Dodge could have bumped up closer to 10,000# due to the heaver springs. I will state no Air Bags or other support devices installed.
It is DD's trailer, dad convinced her to get a 2004 Dodge 3500 DRW to haul it with, combo does great.
As for Dad, we also got a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, as getting a newer 3500 SRW would be a lateral move even with a 12,300# GVWR. Both pulled and handled great.
lincster wrote:
Forest river has had this issue for years.
I agree about axle placement.
Did not know this. I own 2 Forest River TH TT and never had a issue. Usually loaded with motorcycles the heaviest thing was a jet ski and trailer.
Forest river has had this issue for years.
I agree about axle placement.
rhagfo wrote:
Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.
This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.
nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed
Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.
This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.
5th wheels typically run 20-25% pin weight...this results in needing at least a 3/4 ton and often a 1 ton for all but the smallest 5th wheels.
A bumper pull typically runs 10-15% hitch weight. This allows moderate size trailers to be pulled with 1/2 ton trucks. If they pushed the wheels back to increase the hitch weight, people with 1/2 ton trucks would rule out their trailers...which means reduced sales because 1/2 ton trucks are drastically more popular than 3/4 & 1 ton trucks.
Of course, the downside of this compromise is hitch weight will vary substantially depending on loaded or unloaded. In a reverse of typical conditions, a truck pushing the limits may be overloaded (hitch weight) when the toy hauler is running lite with no toys.
I would be very curious to find out what the manufacture actually finds in this situation.
- Did someone mess up when calculating the weight distribution?
- Did the OP have other cargo not mentioned that threw off the weight distribution?
- Was the WDH set up correctly?
- Was there something else we can't see given the limited information provided?
My opinion only that's BS about the axle move not fixing the problem.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.
lincster wrote:
That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.
That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.
yep, cheap and dirty and it does decrease your load carrying capacity. They need to redo your VIN sticker too. You now have a trailer with lesser capacity than you purchased. Not sure if that has any effect on how you intend to use the trailer.
nayther wrote:
yep, cheap and dirty and it does decrease your load carrying capacity. They need to redo your VIN sticker too. You now have a trailer with lesser capacity than you purchased. Not sure if that has any effect on how you intend to use the trailer.
lincster wrote:
That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.
That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.
yep, cheap and dirty and it does decrease your load carrying capacity. They need to redo your VIN sticker too. You now have a trailer with lesser capacity than you purchased. Not sure if that has any effect on how you intend to use the trailer.
Very valid point. I’ll have to mention that to them when they call me back.
They need to fix the issue by moving the axle and I would be asking to have them increase the axle rating (put a bigger axle on it) as a solution if they feel they need to leave the added weight up front to at a minimum leave you the CCC you thought you were getting.
My two cents but don't settle for less that what you researched and paid for capability wise.
2015 GMC 2500 Denali Crewcab 4x4
2019 Forest River Wolfpack 23pack15
Hope your travels are safe and the friendships made camping are lasting.
rhagfo wrote:
Yep, it sure was, or is it? the only thing supporting the trailer is the jacks under the axles so we can get the tires replaced, AND the rear axle of the TV. TV had camper package and optional 265/75-16E tires.
Dodge was very lazy in those years only GVWR on the 2500 was 8,800#, manual trans and Camper package put the same springs as the 3500 DRW (NO SRW 3500 1994 to 2002), I think Dodge could have bumped up closer to 10,000# due to the heaver springs. I will state no Air Bags or other support devices installed.
It is DD's trailer, dad convinced her to get a 2004 Dodge 3500 DRW to haul it with, combo does great.
As for Dad, we also got a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, as getting a newer 3500 SRW would be a lateral move even with a 12,300# GVWR. Both pulled and handled great.
Yep, it sure was, or is it? the only thing supporting the trailer is the jacks under the axles so we can get the tires replaced, AND the rear axle of the TV. TV had camper package and optional 265/75-16E tires.
Dodge was very lazy in those years only GVWR on the 2500 was 8,800#, manual trans and Camper package put the same springs as the 3500 DRW (NO SRW 3500 1994 to 2002), I think Dodge could have bumped up closer to 10,000# due to the heaver springs. I will state no Air Bags or other support devices installed.
It is DD's trailer, dad convinced her to get a 2004 Dodge 3500 DRW to haul it with, combo does great.
As for Dad, we also got a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, as getting a newer 3500 SRW would be a lateral move even with a 12,300# GVWR. Both pulled and handled great.
Not just those years, GVWR stayed at 8800 for a while into the next generation. Seems you answered your question yourself--vehicle was 1000 pounds overloaded once passengers got in it with the empty trailer. Once trailer is loaded it only got worse from there. Glad your dad got a DRW. I'm on my last SRW myself, just too easy to overload the truck with pin weight.
2016 F150 4X4 2.7EcoBoost 6Speed 3:55's / 2019 Jayco Octane 222SL ToyHauler
![[image]](http://s122.photobucket.com/user/dtpebs/media/1C87D10C-DC87-4283-BEEB-3A5B4B148B10_zps6rdt0yiq.jpeg.html)
![[image]](http://s122.photobucket.com/user/dtpebs/media/E27DD023-93AE-48F3-B423-92F0DBEF3771_zpsyqejxazs.jpeg.html)
* This post was edited 07/11/19 05:18pm by an administrator/moderator *
![[image]](http://s122.photobucket.com/user/dtpebs/media/FAF4D970-6065-44B3-BE1C-9D8FADD6E746_zpsbqr6ayei.jpeg.html)
![[image]](http://s122.photobucket.com/user/dtpebs/media/C911757A-313D-464A-B6E9-24516C514962_zpsqe5zlnql.jpeg.html)
* This post was edited 07/11/19 05:18pm by an administrator/moderator *
2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. AISIN trans & 4.10 rear. B&W RVK3600 hitch • 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") • Hooligan #3
Toys:
- 18 Can Am Maverick x3
- 05 Yamaha WR450
- 07 Honda CRF250X
- 05 Honda CRF230
- 06 Honda CRF230
dedmiston wrote:
Wow. How did the stabilizer jack tweak so badly?
Wow. How did the stabilizer jack tweak so badly?
Only about 3-4” off the ground when loaded. Anytime the truck was on higher ground than the trailer the rear and would scrape. One slight dip in the road took the metal protectors and then moments later another dip took the jacks.
- UVW 5608 lb.
- CCC 2152 lb
- GVWR 7760 lb
2007 Duramax, Cognito 7"-9" Lift,
Extending the tongue length and adding weight to it could solve the problem. if you load the tongue up with two 30# propane bottles and four 6VDC golf kart batteries, that may be enough. Like suggested in another post, having them upgrade the axles, suspension and wheels to the next higher rating would negate the extra weight being carried from taking away cargo capacity. With the suspension swap can also come a lift so the tail does not drag.
Chevy Sonic 1.8-Honda Passport C70B-Host Mammoth 11.5-Interstate Car Carrier 20-Joyner SandViper 250-Kawasaki Concours ZG1000-Paros 8' flatbed-Pelican Decker DLX 8.75-Ram 5500 HD
Spyingeye wrote:
Only about 3-4” off the ground when loaded. Anytime the truck was on higher ground than the trailer the rear and would scrape. One slight dip in the road took the metal protectors and then moments later another dip took the jacks.
dedmiston wrote:
Wow. How did the stabilizer jack tweak so badly?
Wow. How did the stabilizer jack tweak so badly?
Only about 3-4” off the ground when loaded. Anytime the truck was on higher ground than the trailer the rear and would scrape. One slight dip in the road took the metal protectors and then moments later another dip took the jacks.
Yikes. That's a pretty blatant design flaw.
How long since you took delivery? This really sounds like a rare case for a buy-back.
I spoke with Pat Stratton with FR again today to check the status. Pat told me that my unit had been returned to the dealership on the 1st of July. I told him I was unaware of this and no one had called to let me know. I told him I was concerned about the weight issue now that they have added 150 lbs to the tongue and inquired about a buy back. His reply was “Sir unit was returned to dealership 7/1. As for trading we would assist 1500.00 towards but since unit did fall within proper percentage we only tried to accommodate.”
Note - the dry percentage was 17%, loaded was 9%. I don’t see how that falls within the proper percentage.
Since this email, I have called the dealership and asked about my RV to which they stated they don’t know anything about it being returned or it’s whereabouts. This gets better and better
Good luck with your resolution. Maybe it got lost in transit. ??
2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010