I replaced it's Parallax 35 amp power converter with a Progressive Dynamics 9280 which was sort of an overkill for a 23 foot RV.
I noticed when my Norcold refrig started to produce a Lo_Dc error futher testing showed dc voltage to be approx. 9.5.
Disconnecting the 3 house batteries it appears the 9280 stopped putting out 12 VDC. I'll further test sometime tommorrow but it appears the power converter is gone unless there's an internal fuse somewhere. The three external green 30 amp fuses appear to be ok.
I'm thinking it may be better to look for a new power converter rather than trying to have the 9280 repaired?
I probably don't need 80 amps as I only have 3 batteries which I really don't need as the RV rarely travels anymore and is lived in year around with utilities.
However the RV Norcold Refrigerator which I'm thinking of replacing with an electric does require 12 VDC and then there is the interior 12 volt lighting. I don't use it gas furnace anymore so I don't think 12 volts is really required other than for the refrigerator and lighting.
I've been looking around at new power converters but am not that familiar with their differences and quality.
So far have looked at Progressive Dynamics 45 - 60 amps, WFCO Ultra III 9800 45 amp, (WFCO replacement) WF-9835 - PowerMax 35 AMP, Powermax Pm3-45, Progressive Dynamics PD4560CSV 4500 series 60 amp,
and others.
I'm interested in this one from WFCO to replace my entire AC/DC control panel and board of which the 9280 was installed with very little room underneath. So I'm thinking with perhaps some modifications I can replace my entire existing AC/DC panel and the 9280 with this WFCO.
WFCO 55 amp RV power converter WF-8955PEC
I'm uncertain of the quality of some of the brands such as Powermax, WFCO, etc. when compared to Progressive Dynamics.
Should I stay with Progressive Dynamics?
* This post was edited 05/10/18 05:47am by Andonso *
Are you sure that one of the batteries is not bad drawing down the PD?
2004 Gulf Stream Endura 6340 D/A SOLD
2012 Chevy Captiva Toad SOLD
ronfisherman wrote:
I switch from a PD to a PowerMax a few years ago. Happy with it.
Are you sure that one of the batteries is not bad drawing down the PD?
I switch from a PD to a PowerMax a few years ago. Happy with it.
Are you sure that one of the batteries is not bad drawing down the PD?
I don't think so as when I disconnected the battery bank from the power center my voltmeter showed no (zero) DC output from the 9280.
I've temporarily connected a 10 amp battery charger to the PD9280 dc output so the refrigerator no longer has a Lo_DC error.
If the converter is getting input power and not producing output power, I'd give PD a call and see what sort of support they can provide. They're usually fairly decent to deal with, from what I've heard, and I'm not sure there are many "better" converters generally available. There are some that are about as good and as well built, but they'd be more of a horizontal move than an upwards one. Most would say that WFCO is worse quality, and PowerMax maybe about equivalent, depending on one's usage etc. If you're plugged in all the time (or essentially all the time), you probably don't need a super special converter, mainly just one that will not continually overcharge the batteries.
WFCO I don't recommend.
35 or 45 amps is plenty if plugged in. Will work fine charging three batteries.
www.bestconverter.com
2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up
DrewE wrote:
Have you checked the output fuses with an ohmmeter or other tester, or just visually? It's sometimes possible for fuses to be blown but appear--at least at first glance--to be okay. Also, are you checking the output voltage directly at the converter, or at the other end of the wires that attach to it? If the latter, it's of course possible that a connection could have failed.
If the converter is getting input power and not producing output power, I'd give PD a call and see what sort of support they can provide. They're usually fairly decent to deal with, from what I've heard, and I'm not sure there are many "better" converters generally available. There are some that are about as good and as well built, but they'd be more of a horizontal move than an upwards one. Most would say that WFCO is worse quality, and PowerMax maybe about equivalent, depending on one's usage etc. If you're plugged in all the time (or essentially all the time), you probably don't need a super special converter, mainly just one that will not continually overcharge the batteries.
X-2 I bought our Forester in Aug '07, the WFCO converter was replaced under warranty in Jan '08.
Have you checked the output fuses with an ohmmeter or other tester, or just visually? It's sometimes possible for fuses to be blown but appear--at least at first glance--to be okay. Also, are you checking the output voltage directly at the converter, or at the other end of the wires that attach to it? If the latter, it's of course possible that a connection could have failed.
If the converter is getting input power and not producing output power, I'd give PD a call and see what sort of support they can provide. They're usually fairly decent to deal with, from what I've heard, and I'm not sure there are many "better" converters generally available. There are some that are about as good and as well built, but they'd be more of a horizontal move than an upwards one. Most would say that WFCO is worse quality, and PowerMax maybe about equivalent, depending on one's usage etc. If you're plugged in all the time (or essentially all the time), you probably don't need a super special converter, mainly just one that will not continually overcharge the batteries.
2007 Forester 2941DS
2014 Ford Focus
Zamboni, Long Haired Mini Dachshund
You can have my RV, when you pry my cold dead fingers from the Steering Wheel
The Parallax was hard wired for its 120v input and there is a breaker for that, often shared with another circuit. But the PD has a plug so you must have found a receptacle for it.
Whatever you did to get 120v to the converter might be the problem now. The PD 80 amper is supposed to have a 20 amp plug, not a 15, so you would need a 20 or a 15/20 receptacle, which is supposed to have 12 wire instead of 14 and it should go to a 20a breaker, which you might not have fitted in the panel when you installed the PD.
If it works on the alternative input path, then look at the 120v input starting with the breaker for the receptacle the converter was plugged into. Also if that receptacle is on a GFCI circuit that has popped.
The Ultra is a WFCO too, so run away! The other brands are all good for when sitting on shore power.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
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I also disconnected the batteries and the PD9280 just doesn't have any power output.
A couple of weeks ago some water splashed out of the sink above the distribution center which is located under the sink. I disconnected power and cleaned up the water with some towles and let dry out.
Everything was working ok for a ~couple of weeks, however the PD9280 all of sudden quite putting out DC last night. So I suspect there may have been some damage to the PD9280 from the water getting on the AC supply wiring which produced some minor sparking.
I'm planning on replacing the entire dist control panel another that has a built-in converter that will fit into the existing installation space.
The original Power distrubution panel and converter is Magnetek 6300.
I'm looking at a Magnatex 7300 45 amp that runs around $250.00 with shipping.
There are also upgrade kits: http://www.bestconverter.com/MagnetekParallax-630073008300-Upgrade-Kits_c_64.html
The WFCO 55 amp 8900 series runs from $135.00 with free shipping
Approx. a $115.00 difference in cost.
I still have the old 35 amp Magnetex converter that I think still may work. I remember the fan quit working. I would need to pull it out of storage and test it.
However the door for the Magnetek 6300 was misplaced and I haven't been able to find it.
So I'm planning on getting an entire power distribution center with power converter.
My PD9280 after I puchased and installed it years ago did have problems being still under warranty I sent it to PD for repair. However after some time PD sent me a bill for ~$150.00 of which I paid to get back the converter.
I was told I was being billed for the repair because the AC cord with plug had been cut and had voided it's manufacture's warranty. I had cut the cord to install it with my existing Magnetex/Parallax pdc.
* This post was last edited 05/10/18 02:25pm by Andonso *
Ok so you hardwired the PD to the same 120v as the Parallax had, which would have been just the two wires, black (hot) to the breaker and white (neutral)to the N buss. There was no green neg ground.
The Parallax converter (lower portion) in its metal case touching the big metal case for the whole power centre got its ground via the big metal case which is grounded to the RV frame.
The green wire from the PD I think should be grounded to that metal case somehow, but somebody else here should confirm.
You would still have the same 120v breaker for the input to the PD, which you can check. You can use your multi-meter on 120 to see if you have 120 on the converter side of the breaker where you wired it in. Then see if there is DC out. You should suspect your wiring job to see if it is still good.
I think your "Parallax" is really a Magnetek 6300 from that long ago, and with the 6300 gone, you would have needed a DC fuse panel that did not split for dirty and clean DC like the 6300s did. If you did not do that, you still can. (You can jumper the two pos red and blue on the old 6300's panel to fix that) The 7300 was all clean, so no problem. That is still the case about the fuse panel even if your do have to replace the PD.
The PUD's 30 amp service is working fine.
I did have some problems a while back when water from the sink splashed down into the distribution panel and wiring. There was some minor sparking. After disconnecting PUD power I cleaned up the water with a rag and allowed everything to dry out. The power distribution and PD9280 has been working just fine. AFAIK no water got inside the PD9280 but perhaps it was effected somehow and after a couple of weeks quit working?
Anyway I'm looking at this power dist. that comes with a power converter. I'm just wondering if it will last? The RV is normally lived in 24/7 except perhaps a few months out of the year.
WFCO 8955 RV Trailer Power Center Converter 55 amp New WF8955PEC
I just don't want another failing power converter in a few years. The AC / DC conversion is used mostly for lighting and currently the Norcold Absorption refrig. I would have replaced with an compressor frig but wasn't able to find one the right dimensions for it's cut-out.
Absorption frigs are good for traveling as they run on gas, but cost more to operate.
This Norcold N641 has worked ok, but did have problems with PCB corrosion as heavy wet weather (near the ocean) water would get inside near it's PCB and the refrig would quit working for a while until everything dried out.
So I removed it's PCB, cleaned it up and then coated the PCB with a Urethane Seal Coat Viscous Liquid Coating.
Af7er applying a Viscous coating to a PCB it's able to operate in wet environments and prevents corrosion from occurring.
If your RV is in an area with high humidity, rains alot, etc. It's not a bad idea to coat the frigs PCB with something as most RV refrigerators are exposed to the elements through their venting. Heavy rains and winds moisture can accumulate inside on the back of the cooling unit. On mine it lead to the PCB having green corrosion on the PCB electronics, plug connectors, fuses, etc.
Some rv frigs their PCB can be expensive. The one for my Norcold their asking around ~$200.00 to ~$250.00.
However some RV frig. manufactures such as Norcold have come out with a new version PCB that fits a bunch of different models at nearly half the cost.
http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-........60-Amp-BD-1260PC_p_552.html#.WvSfj1KWxLM
Boondockers are supplied by PowerMax, which makes a good converter.
Here is another possible
http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4060-60-A........ini-Power-Center_p_458.html#.WvSgZFKWxLM
BFL13 wrote:
I think your "Parallax" is really a Magnetek 6300 from that long ago, and with the 6300 gone, you would have needed a DC fuse panel that did not split for dirty and clean DC like the 6300s did. If you did not do that, you still can. (You can jumper the two pos red and blue on the old 6300's panel to fix that) The 7300 was all clean, so no problem. That is still the case about the fuse panel even if your do have to replace the PD.
I think your "Parallax" is really a Magnetek 6300 from that long ago, and with the 6300 gone, you would have needed a DC fuse panel that did not split for dirty and clean DC like the 6300s did. If you did not do that, you still can. (You can jumper the two pos red and blue on the old 6300's panel to fix that) The 7300 was all clean, so no problem. That is still the case about the fuse panel even if your do have to replace the PD.
Yes I believe your correct. Iirc from years ago it's a Magnetek 6300 and I was looking at the 7300 and then came across the PD9280.
The wiring I believe is ok as I remember going through using schematics making certain all the wiring and connections were correct. I also have factory wiring schematics for the entire motorhome.
I remember there were upgrade kits for the 6300 and 7300 which I believe are still available.
A new 45 amp Magnetek 7300 is around $230.00 plus ~20.00 shipping.
I can get a WFCO 8955 Power Center Converter 55 amp WF8955PEC for $135.00 with free shipping.
So I'm not certain if a new Magnetek 7300 would be worth an additional $115.00? and how much more reliable it would be compared to the WFCO 8955?
The 7300 is not worth the money because it only does 13.8v and you can get three-stage ones for less money.
The WFCO does 13.6 which is fine if you are only ever on shore power. Its problems are with going to its other two stages, so you can really only count on it for that 13.6, but that is all you need it seems. So it is all about money if you only want about 13.6v.
I am unclear what you have working now for DC to the fridge controls and lights , fans etc. You might not need new anything without knowing more. OTOH, you might have a problem that a new power centre won't fix. IMO more trouble shooting etc would be worth doing.
Amazon PowerMax PM3 35 amp $92 shipped
This will charge faster, is more reliable, longer warranty, take better care of batteries, and less money vs 55a WFCO.
The fact you got power from battery to the DC fuse panel shows the "battery fuse" or DC breaker instead of a fuse, is ok and the positive path from DC panel to battery is ok, so the converter output to the DC panel should have been getting to the battery and not letting them get run down.
So that indicates the converter is not supplying DC to the DC panel and the battery lugs on that. Probably not since the water episode two weeks ago. Could be a loose converter wire into a lug on the panel front or back. (off chance)
You want to know if you have 12v DC above say 11v, will everything work? Check by using a battery that is charged instead of the near dead ones. You can run the engine and see if you get alternator charging, which will also run DC to the 12v system.
With the Parallax there were two 30amp fuses on the DC fuse panel, which were to protect the converter from reverse polarity hooking the battery wires on backwards. They would also blow for other events. With the PD, those are on the converter itself, which you checked. What about the two on the panel? (off - chance)
If everything works with a charged battery, then you don't need a whole new power centre. You may or may not need a converter, needs a "bench test" with 120v not from the input it has now (to eliminate that suspect)
If it is only the fridge that has "low DC" but the lights work, then there are things to check just for the fridge.
Also look for any DC breakers near the power centre -those little metal cover ones with a bolt/nut at either end. You can jumper those one at a time to see if any have failed to reset.
I'm going to remove the entire 6300 dist panel and thinking of finding an entire new dist. panel with a power converter and cover.
After removal I'll further test the PD9280 to make certain it indeed isn't functioning.
The factory Magnetex 6300 cover is missing which makes it vunderable to exterior forces and the area underneath doesn't have enough room to completely cover and secure the PD9280 which heat sink section was sticking out a little bit. Vunderable to being kicked by people using the sink.
The cut out area for the 6300 dist panel with converter is approx 12" x 11" The depth is compromised by plumbing and other wiring. So there's not alot of room to install a separate coverter without modifications to the dist. panel's cut-out.
I'm not certain if a 14.4 vdc charge of two RV marine batteries is needed as the batteries have been only used for a short while (for a few hours to a day or two) after a power outages caused by wind & rain storms. Perhaps once or twice a year.
You have the battery wires to the dist panel now, so all you need is a converter on the battery posts. That will allow the converter to run the dist panel up the battery wires.
The DC distribution location would be hard to relocate, but the converter (deck mount type) can go anywhere you can get 120v to it and get the output to the battery bank. Usually you want it close to the batteries for less voltage drop, but on shore power that is not so important.
You can cover the existing power centre with any vented panel from a hardware store. Just move the converter to someplace else.
Our Class C has the 6300 under a dinette seat. The battery compartment is under there from outside. I yanked the 6300 lower portion, jumpered the 6300's split fuse panel so I could keep it as is, and put a deck mount converter under the seat plugged into a 120v receptacle I added in there, and wired the converter output to the battery bank. You don't have to put the converter in where the "lower portion" was.
The case uses rivets instead of screws so when I have the time I may drill out the rivets and take a look inside. If beyond repair possibly can be used for parts.
Yes I know I could relocate a converter as there a small cupboard near the floor next to the sink that should be able to accommodate a converter. However I'm still leaning towards an entire new dist. panel with converter as the old one has no cover. Taking a look on eBay I'm not able to find any spare parts or a cover that fits a 6300.
I saw a Parallax 8300 series for around $250.00. I'm not finding any readily available information about Parallax's charging rates. I suppose it must be buried in documentation somewhere.
I'll think it over for a while as it would be much simpler to install a less expensive 55 amp WFCO dist. panel for $135.00.
The Xantrex Truecharge battery charger is a three stage 10 amp charger I believe it uses PWM (pulse width modulation) and it charges down to less than one amp when a battery becomes full. Though designed for one battery it seems to be able to charge two batteries. (the older third Rv battery I removed as it's cells keep losing liquid it's date code is 01/06 while the other two are 01/7) Iirc I picked them up at costco a number years ago.
I do have another Xantrex Truecharge 10 amp charger that's designed for two batteries. Charges each battery individually.
10 amps perhaps is barely enough to charge two batteries, lighting and power the refrig. However I think the motorhome minimally requires a 30 amp charger.
I also have a 115 watt solar panel and a 45 amp tri-star solar controler wired to the motorhome. The solar panel I keep in storage but all I need to do is set it up on the roof or next the the mh and flip the isolator switch.
I suppose I can temporarily connect the solar panel to provide a little more than 10 amps.
Solar controllers imo do a little better at charging batteries than many of the RV chargers/converters. People who are into solar need to maintain batteries a long time.
A quality deep cycle open cell deep cycle battery if maintained potentially will last from 15 to 20 years. Having a good charger is impertive. My Jeep has an Optima battery that I purchased new around 10 years ago still working well without any problems. One thing about AGM batteries is they don't behave the same as open cells so it's a good idea to find a 3 or 4 stage charger that's designed for AGM or Gel batteries.
Most RV chargers do a good job but I think solar controller (ones that I've looked at) have an edge over most of the RV chargers as their design to get a maxiumu life out of a battery bank. The Tri-Star 45 e.g. is programable, with many settings that effect the charging rate and maintenance of batteries.
* This post was last edited 05/10/18 06:29pm by Andonso *
You can use both 10 ampers at once (in parallel) on the battery bank and that will give you 20 amps.
Both 12v batteries should be in parallel and the charger(s)/loads should go on the pos post of one and the neg post of the other so you are using them as one big 12v battery.
-----------
Many (all?) deck mount converters have a "120v" glass fuse inside on the circuit board where the 120v cord is attached inside. If that fuse is ok, there is not much that a non-tech can do to get 12v out.
You can drill out the rivets and replace with screws for getting the converter's cover off.
On battery charging, it is not the amps so much as the voltage over time. You can use 10 amps for longer than 20 amps. You are replacing amp-hours.
What counts is voltage to get the batteries to "gas". That is usually around 14.4v, so 13.8 forever won't do it. The Truecharge ISTR goes to 14.2 which might be enough. The thing is that it takes so much time, but on shore power you don't care; it is when on generator you care about time. Then you want more amps in the AH.
Can Tire has all sorts of those metal vented covers of various sizes. You don't need the "right" size, just a bigger one than the hole. Don't understand the problem there.
The 8300 is actually like their 4400 and is better, but no big deal. Don't bother. ( I had a 4455TC for a time, but it fried)
IMO, probably the WFCO will do the job at 13.6 as long as you don't expect it to do its advertised 14.4, which is another story. You can use your charger if you ever needed to get over 14v with your batts run down any.
I still think you need to do more tests on what's there, since a new power centre might not fix the problem. It might, but first you need more proof that t would-- IMO.
Your bad battery may have over-worked the converter. With that gone, things might do better. Too many possibles!
* This post was edited 05/10/18 06:27pm by BFL13 *
The two batteries (previously three batteries) are wired as one large 12 volt battery
RV charger Pos+ ==== Pos+ (battery 1) ===== Pos+ (battery 2)
RV Charger Neg- ==== Neg- (battery 1) ===== Neg- (battery 2)
Using 1/0 cable. I also installed a 4 way isolator switch that brings in the solar.
The Xantrex Truecharge 10 amp seems to be running a little hot. Using a laser thermometer temperatures measure from ~99 to ~120 deg. F.
Perhaps should disconnected from the two RV batteries? I don't think it will hurt the RV batteries if disconnected from a charger until I can find another charger/converter?
* This post was last edited 05/10/18 07:12pm by Andonso *
Andonso wrote:
I'm still looking around. I've noticed none of the sellers have any information about charging rates.
I've looked on some of the manufacture's sites but they too seem to be keeping charging rates and other details a secret.
I'm still looking around. I've noticed none of the sellers have any information about charging rates.
I've looked on some of the manufacture's sites but they too seem to be keeping charging rates and other details a secret.
EDIT--chargers do get warm and need lots of cooling air. Watch out for a loose connection to the battery post, which will get hot if loose. Put both Truecharges on the job and they will each do half the work.
-----
The battery makers do give charging specifications for voltages. Eg Trojan wants 14.8v for charging and 13.5 for Float (which is like sitting on shore power) some want 14.4 for charging, it varies.
The amps going in only matter for the time you have. Except you can use too high an amps for the size of the battery. Usual idea is 25 % charging rate, so use 25 amps on a 100AH and so in as a rough guide.
But you can use fewer amps with the proper voltage. It just takes longer -more hours (Amp- Hours)
As I have the other Trucharge wired into my jeep to charge it's main AGM battery and another Group 31 I stick into the Jeep for off-road use. I use a 200+ amp isolator to bring the aux. battery online when travling and/or off-road.
I tried using a laptop and a few other electronics with one main starting battery but it just didn't work unless the engine was running most of the time. The aux. electronics kept draining the starter battery.
So when I'm at home I plug in the other Truecharge designed for two batteries into the jeep, where I've installed aux dc breaker panels.
Trying to mix auxiliary electronics with OEM isn't imo a great idea especially with newer vehicles that use computers, sensors, low voltage wiring connected to sophisticated electronics. many of the aftermarket electronics for vehicles have instructions for people to start splicing and tapping into the OEM wiring which potentially may work, however down the road mixing aux. with oem often causes problems. Which can potentially cause problems with sensitive electronics. Most modern vehicles rely on 5 VDC and millivolt data wiring. Where corrosion and grounds becomes a problem as a vehicle ages.
With road vehicles what I normally do is separate the aux. wiring from the OEM using separate cables and fuse panels.
However there are two different types of chargers.
A PM3-12V Series, 3 stage charger and a PM4 (4 stage) replacement charger where it's missing part of the enclosure.
PM4 4 stage charger
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lOsAAOSwKQBZlUu2/s-l1600.jpg
The PM4 pics above is a 55 amp verion for $120.00 (free shipping)
I'm wondering if it would be possible to install the PM4 inside some sort of homemade wooden box made from plywood? I have a small cupboard under my closet next to the 6300 magnatex dist panel.
There are also some enclosed PM4's 55 and 60 amp for another $20.00 - $25.00 with shipping. There's a used PM4 75 amp for around $100.00 with shipping.
I'm uncertain if I actually need more than 35 - 45 amps unless I need to run the generator? I remember reading something about battery chargers when using a geny. Something about chargers with higher and more efficient charging rates saves on gas and time when using a geny?
* This post was last edited 05/10/18 09:56pm by Andonso *
Make sure that cupboard gets air to cool the converter
The 4 means it has an extra stage trick to do a shot of 14.x every so often after it drops to the 13.2 storage stage. You will never see that doing 13.6 all the time using the RV on shore power, so a PM3 is the same for you. Besides that, the value of that shot of 14.x every so often is dubious. More of a sales gimmick IMO.
I have PowerMax converters and like them. I mostly like the ADJ version with the adjustable voltage so I can meet different battery specs that call for various voltages. In your situation, the basic PM3 would be fine.
Perhaps your correct if a battery or battery bank is going to be near it's normal voltage most of it's life and the charger in float or normal mode most of the time.
Progressive Dynamic 9200 series also has a boost mode and doesn't require a battery to be connected for clean DC as it's well regulated.
I suspect the Powermax is similar, works as a well regulated DC PSU without a battery?
PD9200 series
14.4 boost mode
13.6 normal mode
13.2 storage mode
Boost mode rapidly brings up batteries up to 90 percent of a full charge.
Has variable speed cooling fan and other features.
One thing that lowers the life expectancy of a battery is using them at 50 percent charge and less. I think the boost mode may help to extend the life of a battery. It's not quite the same as battery chargers with a desulfation mode, however a boost mode stage may help to prevent sulfation.
RV batteries are fairly cheap compared to solar banks. e.g.
Crown 430 AH 12VDC 5,160 Wh (2) Battery Bank Price: $772.00
Actual deep cycle batteries may require a charger that's better than your average RV charger / converter.
* This post was last edited 05/11/18 12:17am by Andonso *
I think I'm going to make an offer on it. The PM4-75 appears to have variable voltage control.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2w515er4c/
Also the efficiency is higher than the 60 and lower amp version @ >93%.
* This post was edited 05/11/18 02:16am by Andonso *
The left hole has a switch behind it that snaps back and forth sideways. To the left, you get a normal four stage operation, that is automatic so you don't have to do anything, same as any converter. To the right it becomes an adjustable voltage single stage, which you then turn the pot behind the right hand hole.
If you want 14.8 for your Trojans or whatever, just set that and do the recharge, and when they are full, dial it back to 13.6 and leave it there. If it is 35F out, 14.8 is now 15.2 so set that. (the 14.8 is for 77F)
You should not twiddle the pot on the right when you have chosen normal four stage operation or it will skew all the set stage voltages. But you can put it back where it belongs if you mess up.
You have to set the pot to 13.6 before you switch back to normal four stage.
You need a voltmeter where you can see it when adjusting the voltage, and the converter should be disconnected from the battery bank when you do that. Once the battery is connected, the voltage you see will be somewhere between what the battery was and what the converter is set at. As the battery recharges the voltage you see comes up to eventually be what you set the charger at.
The PowerMax ads say that their 75 ampers are power factor corrected, but they are not, so ignore that. Their 100 ampers are PF corrected.
Your PD 9280 is not PF corrected (PF is 0.7) so expect that 75 to draw almost as much VA from a generator --but the 75 does not require a 20 amp (120v)circuit-- it runs on 15a ok.
The LK has an internal fan so it doesn't have the usual fan sticking out, but you need to mount it where you can get at those two holes in the side.
I entered an offer for $86.00 with free shipping and the offer was accepted.
The converter / psu from it's pics didn't appear to be terribly used, with dust, etc. From the seller desciption the converter has been sitting around.
One thing I thought was odd is part of the sellers description
“Item is used. Item is in good condition. Item may have minor cosmetic imperfections such as scratches/scuffs. Item has a small dent in the grates (please see last picture).
Due to sitting item may need fuses change by the time the item arrives"
I'm uncertain why the seller describes the item as the fuses may need to be changed from sitting?
For anyone interested I found this spec sheet for PM4's
PM4 Spec Sheet
* This post was edited 05/11/18 11:32am by Andonso *
Meanwhile I never got it clear on whether your 12v system is ok except for the converter. I suppose it must be since that is what you are doing. Hope it all works out for you.
BTW, those LKs (which came out in 2016) were something of an experiment for PowerMax to combine all those features into one converter. Apparently, they were not a big seller because it is so "complicated". Most RVers and other folks want just simple automatic ones they don't have to think about. So you can get them on Amazon from BoatandRV at a low price for what it does, but not featured much elsewhere, even on BoatandRv's own site. The market rules! "The customer is always right."
If you get into battery charging in a big way, you will appreciate what that unit can do. If not, it will still do the job you need it for.
I suppose I went with the PM4-75 amp because of the price and wanted some veratility and leeway in case I need to install into another RV with a larger battery bank and to go off-grid with a geny.
In the past I have gone off-grid with the Class-C for up to several months. Mostly up in the mountains where there are zero utilities. Trying maintain batteries becomes an issue. Without DC the refrigerator stops working, no pumps for water, no fans, etc. and the RV basiclly becomes a shelter.
I also have an older Class-B I'm planning upgrading for off-grid use so perhaps I'll find another smaller converter for the Class-C and install the 75 amp into the Class-B camper van.
The other thing is I'm thinking of instead of cutting the cord of the PM4-75LK is to install a fused 120 VAC recepticle into the cupboard for the converter. Which is what I probably should have done for the PD9280.
I'm also thinking of installing a vent into the door of the cupboard where the converter will be installed, but am uncertain how much air space for heat disapation the converter actually requires?
The cupboard is a little smaller than ~21" x ~15" x ~12" as there's a small part of the wheel well protruding from the cupboard's floor.
* This post was last edited 05/11/18 12:34pm by Andonso *
You will need good light to see to operate the screwdriver in the holes. The switch on the left is quite small and not very robust so don't poke at it real hard. You don't want to be on your hands and knees twisted around in a small space trying to do all this, so another location might be better.
You need two lengths not much more than five feet each
of #4AWG copper (not cu-al) to the battery to ever see the 75amps, but just to run the RV 12v at 13.6v, you can go longer with thinner wire, so another location might be easier.
So to achieve a maximum of 75 amps a #4 pos+ cable wound need to be run from the converter/charger to the battery banks 1/0 cable or directly the battery bank?
Either way, appears it would require approx. 8 to 10 feet of #4 wire.
My experience with wiring vehicles for batteries is the neg- ground wire usually doesn't require to be the same gauge as the pos+. While wiring my Jeep for a second battery I used a smaller gauge neg- cable and a frame ground.
Some high amp devices such as inverters, winches, etc. it benefits to use the same aught for pos+ and neg- ground.
I have a couple of inverters in storage I haven't really used in the past. One is a Trip-Lite PV2000FC 2000/4000 watt that has 2/0 cables. Some inverters and combo inverter/converters it's recommended to use 4/0 pos+/neg- cables. Trip-lite recommmends to use 2/0 or higher for the PV200FC.
2000W PowerVerter Plus Industrial-Strength Inverter with 2 Outlets
The PV2000FC uses a PWM sine wave which I've gathered is a step above a modified sine wave but not as good as true sine wave. Considered a mid-level waveform by most, desirable for all but the most sensitive of critical of computing applications.
I also picked up a used Xantrex 1750 Plus which is probably good for up to to around 1200 watts.
Both are not true sign wave but should be good enough for my current needs.
However for better efficiency with the entire installation battery bank, converter, geny, etc. a true sign wave inverter is a better choice as it effects battery charging when using a geny.
The problem here is not all inverters are designed for off-grid systems using a geny . Some inverters even though true sign wave can make a battery charging system to have lower efficiency similar to using a modified sign wave inverter.
So when looking for an inverter to use with an off-grid system you may want to look for one that's been certified for off-grid as some are only certified for a grid connection only.
Battery charging is only from the converter to the battery on the wires joining them (on the other side of the battery from the wires to the system) They need to have the ampacity to get your 75 amps to the battery bank.
Inverter wiring is also high ampacity to run a microwave or whatever, so short fat wire to the battery is needed. This means the high amp charger and the inverter can share the same wires to the battery (as with an inverter/charger) Just mount the inverter and the charger near each other and run short fat wires from one to the other's DC terminals and from there onwards have one set to the battery.
The neg and pos paths don't need to be equal. It is a circuit, so you add the resistance of each part of the circuit. It is the total R that counts. Often the RV frame is a big part of the neg path and the frame has fairly low R, so all you need is a good pos path to get total R low enough.
There are many factors with inverters to consider, but that is another story. You can run a microwave with a MSW inverter IF the inverter is rated for running "motors" (inductive loads) You only need PSW for a few things like electric blankets and certain battery charged power tools.
If you have a few of those things, often they can be run with a small watt inverter. So folks get say a 300W PSW inverter for that and a big MSW to run the big things which don't need PSW (MW, kettle, toaster, hairdryer, etc) this saves money where a big PSW inverter costs so much compared with a MSW one.
"Sine wave" often means the same thing as "PSW" or "True SW" as opposed to MSW depending on Brand, but you can check the specs for how close the wave form is to pure (by having more little steps)
I don't follow why you think having a PSW vs MSW inverter has anything to do with battery charging. The inverter has nothing to do with it. You might be thinking of inverter generators, which supply cleaner 120v to a battery charger so it runs better than with some ordinary generators.
I have run a few power tools and electric motors using an inverter, which is one reason why I have the trip-lite 2000/4000 watt as it's designed for more heavy duty electronics with motors, etc.
However I did run across this discussion from solar-electric.com. Here's part of the discussion where a person was having problems with a trip-lite inverters.
The discussion also includes solar arrays so this problem may not directly pertain to an off-grid systems without renewable power.
I have thought about expanding my solar for off-grid use however because of the initial cost factor and my weather environment it would take years in my current environment for a solar system to pay off, and the solar array would need to be much larger than a typical solar systems installed in more arid environments. However since deserts and desert forest are exponentially expanding my area may soon have more sunlight and less rain. Essentially the forest around me approx. 100 years ago the average age was 750 years, today I believe most of the forests are under 100 years where much of the forest are around 20 to 40 years.
I believe there's a direct link to the disappearance of old growth forests and the annual increase of forest fires in the Western US and elsewhere on the planet. Old growth forest as actually worth much more than the actual use and profit derived from them.
1. Old growth allowed many areas in the US and around the world to recover from drought which they can no longer due to it's disappearance. 2. old growth forest was at one time comprised of diversified tress and undergrowth which had natural defenses against various diseases, insects, etc. Monolithic forest as seen today e.g. Canada, Alaska and the Northwest were replanted with a single species such as Douglas Fir which made the vulnerable. Much of the existing replanted forests are turning brown, the only defense is to spray them with chemicals which really doesn't work very well
Research and Resources on the Negative Effects of Pesticide and Aerial Spray
Toxic Forest Fire Retardant Threat to Wildlife
===== solar electric discussion
Re: Tripplite UPS Modified or Pure Sinewave
As an update the so called Electrical and Mechanical Engineer. He eventually withdrew the 36v MSW Tripplite Unit and replaced it with a Tripplite Pure sinewave 48v 6 kw Unit. At Tripplites expense according to the Installer. However the unit can only be configured by dip switches and the two charging options were approximately 27 amps or 95 amps. at 48v DC .Not much of an option .
To cut a long story short the new unit wouldn't sync with any generator for more than 15 minutes at a time the customers battery bank was down at 43/45 volts at best and they were already to sell up and go back to the Uk.
He was running his 4.5kva generator 9 to 12 hours a day. I went to see them at the request of his neighbor (My Friend) and found that although he replaced the 36v Triplite MSW with a 48v Pure Sine wave, he hadn't altered the 36v Nominal PV array to 48v. thus his 800w array was doing nothing. I loaned him an Xantrex C40 rewired his array to 60 volt to allow for a 75m wire run with substandard wire and put him on a strict recharge programed to get his batteries up.
He made enquiries with Tripplite and they confirmed my suspicions that they do not currently make an offgrid (generator based) inverter all there Inverters are for grid connection only. (UPS)
Again keeping it short. A summary of the next 4 weeks of nearly 12 hours /7 days a week genny run time he had with solar assistance got his batteries back to 52/53v when I installed a VFX3048E inverter and a MX60 CC. In 4 hours genny runtime his batteries hit 57.6 volts . He was gobsmacked. Over the last 2 weeks he has with genny assistance completed a full 90 min absorb cycle daily and has averaged about 2 hours runtime daily. He is now monitoring his saved batteries and reducing his genny runtime to get three full absorb cycles per week. He intends to increase his PV capacity by a further 40%.
This has been my first professional install and to not get any phone calls for problem shooting or hey my lights have just gone off in two weeks since commission and see smiling faces has been a joy . I turned up to day to pick my install fees. PS this was a complete new install with new outback gear and not related to my s/h VFX3048E teething problems from the other day. Im not posting this to blow my own trumpert because the original idiot installer (who has done a runner) and is the Villain of the post.
My purpose of this post is to thank all the great members of NAWS who have helped me over the last couple of years in developing a sound base of off grid installations I really enjoy my work. Thanks to every one. Nigel
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This Class C Forum seems to be more about the actual MH for RVing and not so much just for the electrical side of things.
From what you and other have posted I've gathered enough information for installing the converter/charger.
I may create other posts in Tech Issues if installing an inverter.
I'm also going to be working restoring an older Class B camper, which odometer shows ~87,000 miles. It runs well and body is straight but has a few rusted areas on the exterior due from sitting outdoors somewhere up in Alaska.
It has everything but a toilet so I'll probably look around for a porta potty or perhaps a composting toilet.
There are composting toilets for RV's however there price is often over a grand for a new one.
Some RV's owners have created their own composting toilet, which isn't really a bad idea when traveling, off-grid, camping, etc.
* This post was edited 05/11/18 06:20pm by Andonso *