Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
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thealexdexter wrote:
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
Nope. Just make sure its a floating nuetral inverter. Ground the case to frame of trailer as specified in the instructions.
I ran an outdoor ext cord from pass through where inverter is to under the RV to a 30 amp TT outlet.
I just plug the camper to this when boondocking..
You need to find the charging circuit breaker and flip it off when you do this.. Some are isolated and on their own breakers, and some are tied to other things in RV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5cpclHjqA
Mike L ... N.J.
2006 Silverado ext cab long bed. 3:42 rear. LM7 5.3 motor. 300 hp 350 ft lbs torgue @ 4000 rpms
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small amount of power ...
I have a 400 watt inverter.. for 32 inch TV and satellite receiver.
I use a 15a power cord.. and unplug power strip.. from wall outlet., into power cord to inverter...
I have my inverter next to shore power supply.. wired to 12 volt line from battery.. and next to main fuse box of trailer.
I have a duty always 'ON' 600WATT PSW Power Inverter just inside my cabinet area off of the 5X8 front deck.
I use the 120VAC OUTPUT of this Power Inverter to run a couple of multi-head drop cords inside my trailer with one going to the home entertainment area and the other one going to a cabinet top close to where we sleep. I also have a connection going to an OUTSIDE w/lid 120VAC Receptacle like shown here. This is next to the Shore Power Connection for the trailer wf-8900 series Power Distribution Panel... I have another 1500WATT PSW Power invert I can use as well but it is too big a drain for my battery back and is not used very much... This Power Inverter also creates a whole bunch of Radio Noise which i don't like to mess with...
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/XEA4aJy.png)
Roy's image
When I want to feed my WF-8900 series 120VAC Power Distribution panel I use a short jumper cable as shown in the diagram. This is my poor mans transfer switch... I usually have all the 120VAC breakers 'OFF' except for the 120VAC inside/outside receptacles when doing this.
My over-all floor plan shows some of this as well... This idea here is to power up all of my HAM RADIO items for Emergency Comms I am associated with when camping off-grid
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/B0JtldQ.png)
Roy's image
I also have a 300WATT MSW Power Inverter associated with my truck that I use alot to power up outside lights etc... This doesn't do well with any of my electronics - only good for lights and will power up my bean coffee grinder sometimes but that starts getting hot to if I use it too long. I need to change this power inverter out for a PSW type...
I think all of this can give you an idea of what I am doing here...
Roy Ken
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/SoQ6BfGm.jpg){kind=small}
Put my converter on a separate breaker. Still need to set the fridge to propane only. Push the remote power switch and instant power.
Yes you can plug the main cord direct.
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thealexdexter wrote:
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter. Sure, works fine within the limits of your inverter but doing so creates a closed loop with the inverter supplying power to the converter which in turn will try to charge the battery which is supplying power to the inverter. You can prevent this simply by turning the converter off. Also make sure your fridge is forced to gas mode and your water heater, if it has an electric heating option, is switched to run in the gas mode only. I did it this way originally but found it to be a PITA so I later wired the inverter outputs to dedicated receptacles in the trailer and no longer have to remember to turn anything off.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
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SoundGuy wrote:
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter. Sure, works fine within the limits of your inverter but doing so creates a closed loop with the inverter supplying power to the converter which in turn will try to charge the battery which is supplying power to the inverter. You can prevent this simply by turning the converter off. Also make sure your fridge is forced to gas mode and your water heater, if it has an electric heating option, is switched to run in the gas mode only. I did it this way originally but found it to be a PITA so I later wired the inverter outputs to dedicated receptacles in the trailer and no longer have to remember to turn anything off.
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter. Sure, works fine within the limits of your inverter but doing so creates a closed loop with the inverter supplying power to the converter which in turn will try to charge the battery which is supplying power to the inverter. You can prevent this simply by turning the converter off. Also make sure your fridge is forced to gas mode and your water heater, if it has an electric heating option, is switched to run in the gas mode only. I did it this way originally but found it to be a PITA so I later wired the inverter outputs to dedicated receptacles in the trailer and no longer have to remember to turn anything off.
I did this on my last rig and SoundGuy is right- it gets annoying quick.
You absolutely DO need to turn off the converter otherwise you'll overload the inverter and it'll shut down. Fortunately, with an inverter so small, it'll overload before going into a self-charging death spiral.
For me, with a 1000W inverter, I'd turn off all of the breakers except for the 2 that controlled almost all of the outlets in the camper.
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MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Make sure shore power and inverter power cannot see each other. I've seen installations where individual relays paralleled breakers right at the main panel.
Make sure shore power and inverter power cannot see each other. I've seen installations where individual relays paralleled breakers right at the main panel.
Physically plugging the shore power cord into the inverter, as the original poster was suggesting, is of course one foolproof way of achieving this. It is not the only way, naturally.
More generally, there should never be any way of having two sources of AC power connected to the same circuit simultaneously in any RV. The only exception I can think of, if you want to call it that, are inverter generators which are designed to be able to be paralleled, in which case the parallel kit does connect the two outputs together and special circuitry in the generators allows them to properly sync up and share the load.
SoundGuy wrote:
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter. Sure, works fine within the limits of your inverter but doing so creates a closed loop with the inverter supplying power to the converter which in turn will try to charge the battery which is supplying power to the inverter. You can prevent this simply by turning the converter off. Also make sure your fridge is forced to gas mode and your water heater, if it has an electric heating option, is switched to run in the gas mode only. I did it this way originally but found it to be a PITA so I later wired the inverter outputs to dedicated receptacles in the trailer and no longer have to remember to turn anything off.
thealexdexter wrote:
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter. Sure, works fine within the limits of your inverter but doing so creates a closed loop with the inverter supplying power to the converter which in turn will try to charge the battery which is supplying power to the inverter. You can prevent this simply by turning the converter off. Also make sure your fridge is forced to gas mode and your water heater, if it has an electric heating option, is switched to run in the gas mode only. I did it this way originally but found it to be a PITA so I later wired the inverter outputs to dedicated receptacles in the trailer and no longer have to remember to turn anything off.
Theoretically, how could/would you connect the output from one of the 2 GFCI outlets of a built in inverter (accessible from one of the exterior storage compartments in the motorhome) to the AC power feed to the rest of the coach's AC receptacles? I think this would be similar to what you said you did to "light up" some more of the coach AC receptacles in your rig, rather than fiddle with the shore power cord connection to the inverter, and the resulting additional disconnects required to make that work without doing damage.
I've got a coach with an inverter with 2 GFCI outlets situated in a passenger side storage compartment, fairly close to the power converter/charger and the fuse/breaker panels. One GFCI outlet is in use to feed the TV and entertainment cupboard also located near the side entry door.
I'd like to "light up" some additional receptacles (preferably all of them) throughout the coach to run off the inverter once in a while, using the other GFCI outlet.
I understand that when supplying power to these receptacles from the inverter, I would have to make sure I a) wasn't plugged into shore power or b) plugged into/using the on board generator.
Could this be done fairly easily, and does it sound about right for taking advantage of my batteries and inverter when camping off grid, and wanting to avoid running the generator?
Mike. Comments are anecdotal or personal opinions, and worth what you paid for them.
2018 (2017 Sprinter Cab Chassis) Navion24V + 2016 Wrangler JKU (sold @ ????)
2016 Sunstar 26HE, V10, 3V, 6 Speed (sold @ 4600 miles)
2002 Roadtrek C190P (sold @ 315,000kms)
thealexdexter wrote:
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
SoundGuy wrote:
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter.
What you're wanting to do is to power the trailer "whole house" with your inverter.
MDKMDK wrote:
Theoretically, how could/would you connect the output from one of the 2 GFCI outlets of a built in inverter (accessible from one of the exterior storage compartments in the motorhome) to the AC power feed to the rest of the coach's AC receptacles?
Theoretically, how could/would you connect the output from one of the 2 GFCI outlets of a built in inverter (accessible from one of the exterior storage compartments in the motorhome) to the AC power feed to the rest of the coach's AC receptacles?
There's nothing "theoretical" about it, some prefer this method rather than wire in dedicated receptacles (as I have) or wire in the inverter through a transfer switch. Just plug the rig's main service cable into one of the inverter outputs and the entire rig will be powered by it, within the limits of the inverter and battery bank powering it. Doing just that however creates an electrical loop between the rig's converter and the inverter so the simple solution is to disable the converter by switching it off. As mentioned you also want to force the fridge to the gas mode, or turn off it's 120 ac electrical breaker, so it can't auto switch to the 120 vac mode when the inverter is turned on. If you have a water heater with a 120 vac electric heating option you also want to make sure it's turned off and can only run on the gas mode. One poster mentioned turning off all the breakers for anything in the rig that can't or shouldn't be run off the inverter, a microwave or A/C being examples, but they won't run anyway unless someone intentionally turns them on. Obviously if you choose this method of powering your rig with an inverter it automatically eliminates any chances of powering the rig from two sources at the same time as the main service cable can only be plugged into one source at a time anyway. All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/mad.gif "mad")
That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.
thealexdexter wrote:
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
Does wiring my 400w inverter output to shore power connector on outside seem smart?
Benefit I see is any AC plug is hot and can be used within 400w limit. No rewiring of Camper and install is very easy.
Drawback I see is batteries may try to charge off inverter output. Could probably solve this by pulling a fuse. Any other drawbacks I’m not thinking of?
That's how I wired my TT. I use a 300 watt inverter to power TVs only. I turn off all breakers except the one for the 120 v outlets
Works fine
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SoundGuy wrote:
All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow. That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.
All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow.
That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.
Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.
MDKMDK wrote:
That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.
You cant go on that premises. If you watch my video in the 2nd post you see I can only either plug the trailer into 120v shore power, or plug into the 30 amp travel trailer plug I mounted under the rv running to the inverter. Its a manual transfer switch...lol
Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
I dont think its a good idea to use a gfi type inverter, because the RV has gfi's. Essentially your plugging a gfi into a gfi.Plus the GFI units are bonded G/N I believe. My inverter is Floating.
Consult an electrician if your unsure
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.
One breaker in the panel should be labeled Charge controller.....This needs to be turned off when running the inverter. Or the inverter in turn true to run through the converter to charge the batteries...
SoundGuy wrote:
All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow. That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.
All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow.
That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.
You cant go on that premises. If you watch my video in the 2nd post you see I can only either plug the trailer into 120v shore power, or plug into the 30 amp travel trailer plug I mounted under the rv running to the inverter. Its a manual transfer switch...lol
Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
I dont think its a good idea to use a gfi type inverter, because the RV has gfi's. Essentially your plugging a gfi into a gfi.Plus the GFI units are bonded G/N I believe. My inverter is Floating.
Consult an electrician if your unsure
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.
One breaker in the panel should be labeled Charge controller.....This needs to be turned off when running the inverter. Or the inverter in turn true to run through the converter to charge the batteries...
Turning fridge to gas is simple. I will need to look into the converter off switch. It’s a new arctic fox camper. They tend to do things smart not cheap so I guess it will be pretty easy to do.
I only want to power a tv and DVD player. Looking for a solution to not change camper wiring. Maybe it’s just easier to run two wires down to the battery ciompartment and plug the tv into the investor directly. Just easier it it’s whole camper then I can charge a flashlight or cellphone or make frozen margaritas. Jk. I know it won’t run the blender.
lawrosa wrote:
MDKMDK wrote:
That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.
You cant go on that premises. If you watch my video in the 2nd post you see I can only either plug the trailer into 120v shore power, or plug into the 30 amp travel trailer plug I mounted under the rv running to the inverter. Its a manual transfer switch...lol
Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
I dont think its a good idea to use a gfi type inverter, because the RV has gfi's. Essentially your plugging a gfi into a gfi.Plus the GFI units are bonded G/N I believe. My inverter is Floating.
Consult an electrician if your unsure
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.
One breaker in the panel should be labeled Charge controller.....This needs to be turned off when running the inverter. Or the inverter in turn true to run through the converter to charge the batteries...
SoundGuy wrote:
All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow. That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.
All this said, I found it a real nuisance to have to unplug the main service cable from the (now dead for whatever reason) campsite post and drag it over to the camper, especially at 3am in the snow.
That's why I later wired in dedicated receptacles that are fed directly from the inverter. However, if you're suggesting that you want to wire the inverter output to receptacles that are already fed by the breaker panel on the converter I wouldn't do that ... although possible there'll always be the possibility of inadvertently feeding those receptacles from two sources at the same time, which you obviously don't want to do. Bottom line - feed the rig whole house by manually plugging it's main service cable into the inverter output, wire in a transfer switch, or install additional receptacles that are fed only by the inverter.That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.
You cant go on that premises. If you watch my video in the 2nd post you see I can only either plug the trailer into 120v shore power, or plug into the 30 amp travel trailer plug I mounted under the rv running to the inverter. Its a manual transfer switch...lol
Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
I dont think its a good idea to use a gfi type inverter, because the RV has gfi's. Essentially your plugging a gfi into a gfi.Plus the GFI units are bonded G/N I believe. My inverter is Floating.
Consult an electrician if your unsure
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
If you can't help me, or aren't sure, that's fine. I'll figure it out myself. I just thought maybe you had done something similar when you wired in your extra receptacles in your trailer.
One breaker in the panel should be labeled Charge controller.....This needs to be turned off when running the inverter. Or the inverter in turn true to run through the converter to charge the batteries...
Thanks Mike. Good input and food for thought. Further research is required, no? Particularly the GFCI to GFCI current routing. I hadn't thought of that one, and don't know the details yet. Worth investigating. The last comment about disabling the converter/charger should be moot, because my wiring the coach outlets off the AC feeder rail won't go near the main shore power cable. That's what I'mm trying to avoid, like SoundGuy did.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/cool.gif "cool")
MDKMDK wrote:
That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.
Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
That's exactly what I want to do. Let's go on the premise that I won't run two AC sources to the coach receptacles at the same time. I'd like to have inverter provided AC power to all available coach outlets, when I'm off grid. Mostly because I prefer not to run the generator, if possible, and I'm also unlikely to ever plug my motorhome into an AC outlet with the main shore power cable, either.
Could I run a pigtail grounded power extension cord from the converter/charger's AC coach outlet rail to the inverter's spare GFCI outlet, to power them when the rest of the coach isn't plugged into shore power with that cable or running off the generator (which implies I've plugged the shore power cable into the generator, because that's how my coach is set up)?
Where inside the converter/charger/breaker/fuse panel would I begin to look? Does the front panel remove easily on most of these things?
The converter/charger does not have an "AC coach outlet rail" as such.
I think you're talking about connecting a pigtail directly to the AC distribution panel, which is separate from the converter (but often mounted in the same chassis). That is not an acceptable way of wiring things up: it leaves the possibility of having two power sources connected together simultaneously, which is not okay. It also means that one of the plugs (either the shore power cord plug or the inverter power output plug) is live when it's unplugged under some situations, and having a live male plug is also not acceptable.
You must have some sort of a transfer switching arrangement whenever two different AC power sources feed the same circuit(s), which may be something as simple as unplugging a cord from one receptacle and plugging it into another, or something somewhat more complex like a suitable manual switch or an automatic transfer switch. You cannot simply connect them in parallel. Besides being unsafe, you stand a reasonable chance of destroying your inverter the first time you plug in to shore power or use the generator.
Plugging the shore power cord into the inverter, rather than a shore power connection or the generator output socket, is safe and acceptable. You can't plug it into more than one thing at once.
Edit: I wanted to add that there's no inherent problem with having a GFCI plugged into or connected to another GFCI. Which one trips first in the event of a ground fault is, of course, somewhat up to guesswork, but assuming there are no faults in the system it will work just fine. Indeed, this is done pretty frequently, such as when plugging a modern hair dryer (with a GFCI built into the plug) into a modern bathroom outlet (which is GFCI protected per the NEC).
I'm not sure exactly where the rather persistent belief that this doesn't work came from.
That's a typo that I lifted the ground wire in the TT 30 amp... I was going to for safety but not needed because the TT have a floating neutral and is not tied to ground...
![[image]](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4795/26036472787_f2a488e7b2_c.jpg)
And a good inverter to get with open nuetral are these kriegers. No GFI. Cheap and a 3 year warranty.
Keep it close to the batts. No reason to use more then the 1100 watt unit. Becuse if you drew close to 1000 watts for a appliance that would be 90 amps..
Run 2 gauge or better and try to keep it close, like 7 ft or less from batts.
http://www.kriegermfg.com/products/power-inverters/
89 bucks. Cant beat it...
I used their fuse but ran my own 2 gauge wire... ( I think the wire they supply is aluminum... not sure)
https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Installa........luded-Automotive-according/dp/B00T564EIY
Although I don't have the manuals on the inverter yet, because the unit is still being built, I thought most newer PSW inverters had circuitry in the output AC end to prevent AC current from another source flowing back into the inverter? Like diodes in a battery separator? One directional current flow from the inverter AC out? Is this not true? I also thought some of them have the equivalent of an automatic transfer switch built into the AC output circuitry for just that purpose? To sense when they aren't the only source of AC current and shut themselves off.
I believe I can manually shut off the inverter prior to plugging the 30A power cable into shore or the generator.
I understand that it's hard to diagnose and troubleshoot stuff on a chat forum, so fire away, and I'll try to evaluate and understand what you're telling me.
lawrosa wrote:
My crude drawing.. I can only plug into the pedestal, of the TT/30 amp plug I mounted under RV to inverter. I can never connect two power sources...
That's a typo that I lifted the ground wire in the TT 30 amp... I was going to for safety but not needed because the TT have a floating neutral and is not tied to ground...
And a good inverter to get with open nuetral are these kriegers. No GFI. Cheap and a 3 year warranty.
Keep it close to the batts. No reason to use more then the 1100 watt unit. Becuse if you drew close to 1000 watts for a appliance that would be 90 amps..
Run 2 gauge or better and try to keep it close, like 7 ft or less from batts.
http://www.kriegermfg.com/products/power-inverters/
89 bucks. Cant beat it...
I used their fuse but ran my own 2 gauge wire... ( I think the wire they supply is aluminum... not sure)
https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Installa........luded-Automotive-according/dp/B00T564EIY
My crude drawing.. I can only plug into the pedestal, of the TT/30 amp plug I mounted under RV to inverter. I can never connect two power sources...
That's a typo that I lifted the ground wire in the TT 30 amp... I was going to for safety but not needed because the TT have a floating neutral and is not tied to ground...
And a good inverter to get with open nuetral are these kriegers. No GFI. Cheap and a 3 year warranty.
Keep it close to the batts. No reason to use more then the 1100 watt unit. Becuse if you drew close to 1000 watts for a appliance that would be 90 amps..
Run 2 gauge or better and try to keep it close, like 7 ft or less from batts.
http://www.kriegermfg.com/products/power-inverters/
89 bucks. Cant beat it...
I used their fuse but ran my own 2 gauge wire... ( I think the wire they supply is aluminum... not sure)
https://www.amazon.com/Inverter-Installa........luded-Automotive-according/dp/B00T564EIY
Good drawing of the situation that started the thread. I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
That's what I wanted to do.
The GFCi to GFCI thing was mentioned in a prior comment addressed to me with red text. I said I wasn't sure how that would work, but I was thinking Drew's explanation of either one or the other tripping, was the most likely result.
MDKMDK wrote:
I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
Here's a series of 10 pics of my inverter installation that might convince you dedicated inverter receptacles which are completely separate from the rest of the trailer's electrical system is the best solution. This avoids "hitting" any circuit with two different sources at the same time, avoids having to turn devices off if using the "whole house" method, and avoids the complication of a transfer switch which isn't immune to failure. Sometimes the best solution is the simplest solution.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
For those who want to use an inverter while dry camping this won't apply but for those of us who primarily use an inverter only when campsite shore power fails (which happens several times each season to us) there's another significant advantage to dedicated inverter receptacles. When power fails I just leave the trailer's main service cable plugged into the (now dead) campsite power post. In the meantime the trailer runs on battery power and inverter power BUT when campsite shore power is restored I know instantly by glancing at my EMS display as the camper automatically returns to running on shore power, including the fridge, including the water heater electric element, including the converter. It all happens automatically, no need to switch anything on or off other than the inverter which I control with the remote mounted inside the camper. Couldn't be easier or more seamless.
Quote:
Good drawing of the situation that started the thread. I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
That's what I wanted to do.
The GFCi to GFCI thing was mentioned in a prior comment addressed to me with red text. I said I wasn't sure how that would work, but I was thinking Drew's explanation of either one or the other tripping, was the most likely result.
Good drawing of the situation that started the thread. I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
That's what I wanted to do.
The GFCi to GFCI thing was mentioned in a prior comment addressed to me with red text. I said I wasn't sure how that would work, but I was thinking Drew's explanation of either one or the other tripping, was the most likely result.
If you want an all automatic one instead of plugging in and out like I do, then you just need an inverter with a built in transfer switch..
You still mount the inverter near the batterys..
But now you will need to diconnect the umbilical cord where it attached to the converter. Run it to a junction box. From that junction box youll need to run 120v romex type wire to the inverter, then from the inverter back to where you disconnected the umbilical cord from the converter..
This way when you plug into pedestal your running off shore power. Then when you simply unplug it will run off inverter. Automatically. ( well your still have to push a button to turn on inverter.)
you'll need one with a 30 amp transfer switch I assume... Youll be paying a pretty penny for this type of inverter for sure..
My install was less than $150 bucks.
A. If you have a built-in generator in the RV, it will no doubt have a transfer switch with shore power. If you unplug from shore power and plug the cable into your inverter instead, and now also run the gen, can you get 240v? I don't know, but I do know it would be bad!
(With a portable gen, this is not a problem--unplug from inverter and plug into gen)
B. Many (some for sure like 7300s) have the converter on the same AC breaker as the receptacles. This means you can't use the breaker as the on/off switch for the converter, or your receptacles will all be dead too, defeating the whole idea. Now it depends on a bunch of things to do with your rig.
1.You can just unplug the converter from its receptacle if it is a plug in type, or
2. If it is "hard wired" you can snip the black wire into the breaker that comes from the converter, and insert a switch ( I used a regular household light switch) so now the converter can be switched off but the receptacles stay live with that breaker still "on", or
3. You can move that converter's black wire from the receptacles' breaker over to a different breaker you were not going to use off-grid anyway, like for the water heater, or
4. If the panel has room, you can add a breaker and make that one just for the converter, and use it as the converter's on/off switch.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.
SoundGuy wrote:
Here's a series of 10 pics of my inverter installation that might convince you dedicated inverter receptacles which are completely separate from the rest of the trailer's electrical system is the best solution. This avoids "hitting" any circuit with two different sources at the same time, avoids having to turn devices off if using the "whole house" method, and avoids the complication of a transfer switch which isn't immune to failure. Sometimes the best solution is the simplest solution.
For those who want to use an inverter while dry camping this won't apply but for those of us who primarily use an inverter only when campsite shore power fails (which happens several times each season to us) there's another significant advantage to dedicated inverter receptacles. When power fails I just leave the trailer's main service cable plugged into the (now dead) campsite power post. In the meantime the trailer runs on battery power and inverter power BUT when campsite shore power is restored I know instantly by glancing at my EMS display as the camper automatically returns to running on shore power, including the fridge, including the water heater electric element, including the converter. It all happens automatically, no need to switch anything on or off other than the inverter which I control with the remote mounted inside the camper. Couldn't be easier or more seamless.
MDKMDK wrote:
I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
I'mm trying to avoid the "pita" that SoundGuy got around by adding new receptacles to his inverter, by trying to utilize the existing wiring and outlets. I understand that it's dangerous if I hit them from 2 different AC power sources simultaneously.
Here's a series of 10 pics of my inverter installation that might convince you dedicated inverter receptacles which are completely separate from the rest of the trailer's electrical system is the best solution. This avoids "hitting" any circuit with two different sources at the same time, avoids having to turn devices off if using the "whole house" method, and avoids the complication of a transfer switch which isn't immune to failure. Sometimes the best solution is the simplest solution.
For those who want to use an inverter while dry camping this won't apply but for those of us who primarily use an inverter only when campsite shore power fails (which happens several times each season to us) there's another significant advantage to dedicated inverter receptacles. When power fails I just leave the trailer's main service cable plugged into the (now dead) campsite power post. In the meantime the trailer runs on battery power and inverter power BUT when campsite shore power is restored I know instantly by glancing at my EMS display as the camper automatically returns to running on shore power, including the fridge, including the water heater electric element, including the converter. It all happens automatically, no need to switch anything on or off other than the inverter which I control with the remote mounted inside the camper. Couldn't be easier or more seamless.
Thanks. I'll probably have to consider this option. I just checked the specs on the probable inverter make and model and it doesn't have a built in auto-transfer switch. I'm still pretty sure I could do plan A but your setup is interesting and doesn't require the transfer switch.
It's a lot to digest but most of it seems logical, and I can follow it.
https://invertersrus.com/product/powerma........JYj0cIxNZFyjCqu4MJAyjNHzt0EaAkqAEALw_wcB
Only use an inverter with GFI if its a hard wired unit...
Whats the model inverter your looking at?
If you want to do an inverter with GFI's and the plug in method they you need to run dedicated outlets like sound guy did..
Lots of options..
Also, I have no clue if the inverter is "floating" or not. Don't care; everything works great. My Honda gen is floating neutral and it works great too.
Only issue with all that seems to be if you have one of those Ewhatsit gismos that I don't have, when you have to use a bonded plug adapter. Easy solution is don't get one of those gismos! I do have a surge protector on the shore power cord, but that is a different animal.
MDKMDK wrote:
Yes, the coach's AC outlet distribution feed is what I would like to feed (when the shore power cord is unplugged from everything) from the PSW inverter, when camping off grid. I thought that was located somewhere in the converter charger area, perhaps?
Although I don't have the manuals on the inverter yet, because the unit is still being built, I thought most newer PSW inverters had circuitry in the output AC end to prevent AC current from another source flowing back into the inverter? Like diodes in a battery separator? One directional current flow from the inverter AC out? Is this not true? I also thought some of them have the equivalent of an automatic transfer switch built into the AC output circuitry for just that purpose? To sense when they aren't the only source of AC current and shut themselves off.
I believe I can manually shut off the inverter prior to plugging the 30A power cable into shore or the generator.
Yes, the coach's AC outlet distribution feed is what I would like to feed (when the shore power cord is unplugged from everything) from the PSW inverter, when camping off grid. I thought that was located somewhere in the converter charger area, perhaps?
Although I don't have the manuals on the inverter yet, because the unit is still being built, I thought most newer PSW inverters had circuitry in the output AC end to prevent AC current from another source flowing back into the inverter? Like diodes in a battery separator? One directional current flow from the inverter AC out? Is this not true? I also thought some of them have the equivalent of an automatic transfer switch built into the AC output circuitry for just that purpose? To sense when they aren't the only source of AC current and shut themselves off.
I believe I can manually shut off the inverter prior to plugging the 30A power cable into shore or the generator.
The AC electric panel--which is generally similar to the one in a house (or, more precisely, to a subpanel in a house)--is often located in the same physical chassis as the converter.
I don't know how inverters react to being back-fed with power, but I would not bet on most surviving such treatment. Some are designed with transfer switches built-in, but there the power input and power output would be separate connections.
You cannot safely feed the panel with the inverter with the shore power cord active but disconnected. It's not legal according to code. If you forget to disconnect when turning on the inverter, the two sources would fight against each other (the mains power from the shore would win, of course). If you forgot to disconnect it from a traditional, non-inverter generator, and turned on the inverter, the generator head would act as a motor and (try to) turn the engine of the generator. If you didn't have it plugged into anything but touched the prongs, you'd get a shock or worse; and if it happened to flop against something conductive, you'd have arcing and could well start a fire.
You must have some sort of a transfer switching arrangement between two separate sources feeding the same AC circuits. It's that simple. Directly wiring them together, even through an electric panel, doesn't allow for that. Please don't cut corners and try to do so.
"You cannot safely feed the panel with the inverter with the shore power cord active but disconnected."
Where did I say I was going to do that? I didn't say anywhere in any of my prior posts that I planned on using the inverter to power the receptacles while the shore power cord was active but disconnected, either in a 30A campsite post or the generator.
"It's not legal according to code. If you forget to disconnect when turning on the inverter, the two sources would fight against each other (the mains power from the shore would win, of course). If you forgot to disconnect it from a traditional, non-inverter generator, and turned on the inverter, the generator head would act as a motor and (try to) turn the engine of the generator. If you didn't have it plugged into anything but touched the prongs, you'd get a shock or worse; and if it happened to flop against something conductive, you'd have arcing and could well start a fire."
Um, yup. I believe I said way back that we would use the basic premise that I wasn't going to try to run more than one power source through the coach receptacles at one time. I suggested this was part of a project to use the inverter and batteries to power the coach receptacles standalone, as in an off grid situation. I wouldn't be sitting anywhere near a live 30A receptacle to use shore power. No campground posts out on the USFS roads, or the BLM lands dispersed camping ares that I know of. I also wouldn't have it plugged into the generator 30A outlet. Just wouldn't happen. Sorry, if that wasn't clear.
Thanks for your comments and input.
MDKMDK wrote:
"You cannot safely feed the panel with the inverter with the shore power cord active but disconnected."
Where did I say I was going to do that?
"It's not legal according to code."
Um, yup. I believe I said way back that we would use the basic premise that I wasn't going to try to run more than one power source through the coach receptacles at one time.
"You cannot safely feed the panel with the inverter with the shore power cord active but disconnected."
Where did I say I was going to do that?
"It's not legal according to code."
Um, yup. I believe I said way back that we would use the basic premise that I wasn't going to try to run more than one power source through the coach receptacles at one time.
No need to get defensive, folks are only trying to help. The point being made is that your intent on how you'd use a double wired setup is irrelevant as it's still illegal and is the reason transfer switches exist - to allow only one source at a time to feed the load. Your argument is no different than one wanting to use a suicide cord from a genset to a receptacle in order to power all the circuits in the rig ... electrically it would work but it's still illegal and ill advised. Same argument also as one wanting to feed a house breaker box with a genset without going through a transfer switch - illegal and could kill a line worker if that genset power reaches the outside lines feeding the house. Code regulations exist for a reason - to prevent people from doing what you want to do, to save lives. Your intention to have two different power sources feed the trailer's electrical input but with only one active at any given time from just one source is irrelevant - it doesn't meet code and is illegal. If you don't want to use a transfer switch then you still have two others choices - feed the trailer whole house as previously discussed OR wire in totally separate receptacles that are powered by just the inverter.