Hello, I posted a couple times this past summer when we were trying to figure out tow vehicles... I’m on my 3rd iteration and going slow, learning before buying. But we are eager to camp this spring! I wonder if y’all would help me with some questions?
Right now we have our 07 expedition with the hd tow package. I know payload is going to be my main challenge. Dh and I have 8 kids but realistically we’re planning to camp with the four youngest who are currently 4 to 11. The oldest are teens and beyond. They are planning to travel separate and tent camp if they join us.
So a couple posts ago it was recommended that we look at hybrids. I’m finally there and realize this the the way we have to go to get the beds we need. I’ve narrowed it down to a few Rockwood roos and the Jayco x23b. So how does one purchase without any dealers in my part of the state carrying them? We probably prefer a 2-3 yo one but would buy new if it made the most sense. We’ve talked about driving to one of the internet sellers. I’m not sure how to go about this process! Without paying msrp.
I also like the Jayco x254 but I think it’s too much camper for us to get in the driveway. Which brings me to my next question. How to get it up a driveway with a 21 degree incline? I don’t know anyone with a tt to test it. Yes I will look for cheap offsite parking but for dh this is a dealbreaker - he only wants to park it at home if we do this. If we can’t park at home he’ll buy a pop up and I’ll stay home.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/frown.gif "frown")
I read about flipping the axles and larger diameter tires. Does anyone know which hybrids have the most clearance? And are there other hybrids or tt you’d recommend I look at?
We’re so close to doing this! But the fear of the unknown is stopping me.
I would appreciate any advice!
* This post was last edited 02/03/18 08:21am by bernercamper *
bernercamper wrote:
So a couple posts ago it was recommended that we look at hybrids. I’m finally there and realize this the the way we have to go to get the beds we need. I’ve narrowed it down to a few Rockwood roos and the Jayco x23b. So how does one purchase without any dealers in my part of the state carrying them? We probably prefer a 2-3 yo one but would buy new if it made the most sense. We’ve talked about driving to one of the internet sellers. I’m not sure how to go about this process! Without paying msrp.
first, the Roo has a twin brand, the Shamrock, though i find it hard to believe that are no Roo, Shamrock or Jayco dealer in Georgia.
second, you should get quotes from RVW and RV Direct. RVW has some of the best prices on the Roo, while RV Direct has some of the best prices on Roo, Shamrock and Jayco hybrids. use those quotes to shop around.
third, are you sure you want a hybrid, they aren't for everyone. most hybrid owners are former popup owners. they love the canvas but wanted more amenities. so they understand the pros and cons of hybrids.
I read about flipping the axles and larger diameter tires. Does anyone know which hybrids have the most clearance? And are there other hybrids or tt you’d recommend I look at?
i know the Roo/Shamrock hybrids have torqflex axles, which can't be flipped. you can have spacers installed to raise the frame. don't know about Jaycos but suspect they have the same type of axles.
So a couple posts ago it was recommended that we look at hybrids. I’m finally there and realize this the the way we have to go to get the beds we need. I’ve narrowed it down to a few Rockwood roos and the Jayco x23b. So how does one purchase without any dealers in my part of the state carrying them? We probably prefer a 2-3 yo one but would buy new if it made the most sense. We’ve talked about driving to one of the internet sellers. I’m not sure how to go about this process! Without paying msrp.
first, the Roo has a twin brand, the Shamrock, though i find it hard to believe that are no Roo, Shamrock or Jayco dealer in Georgia.
second, you should get quotes from RVW and RV Direct. RVW has some of the best prices on the Roo, while RV Direct has some of the best prices on Roo, Shamrock and Jayco hybrids. use those quotes to shop around.
third, are you sure you want a hybrid, they aren't for everyone. most hybrid owners are former popup owners. they love the canvas but wanted more amenities. so they understand the pros and cons of hybrids.
I read about flipping the axles and larger diameter tires. Does anyone know which hybrids have the most clearance? And are there other hybrids or tt you’d recommend I look at?
i know the Roo/Shamrock hybrids have torqflex axles, which can't be flipped. you can have spacers installed to raise the frame. don't know about Jaycos but suspect they have the same type of axles.
a 3 bed hybrid does make perfect sense for a family of 6 but if you've never owned a popup, the canvas tent ends may not be your cup of tea.
we owned our Roo for 10 years and loved it. but we had previously owned two popups.
Dan- Firefighter, Retired">, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur">, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP">), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes
https://www.jayco.com/products/travel-trailers/2018-jay-feather/x23e/
bernercamper wrote:
Right now we have our 07 expedition with the hd tow package. I know payload is going to be my main challenge.
to go to get the beds we need. I’ve narrowed it down to a few Rockwood roos and the Jayco x23b.
Right now we have our 07 expedition with the hd tow package. I know payload is going to be my main challenge.
to go to get the beds we need. I’ve narrowed it down to a few Rockwood roos and the Jayco x23b.
Personally I do not get the "beds we need", and then mention of the X23B which is a two bunk hybrid? Also with the X23B to use the front bunk you have to crawl over the dinette. I would assume you would be better off with the X23E or X23F. The 23F may still be able to be found on lots as its discontinued. As far as your TV be wary of the published weights, especially in regards to hitch weights. With either the Roo's or the Jayco you're looking at a realistic hitch weight of approaching 900 lbs minimum
bernercamper wrote:
So how does one purchase without any dealers in my part of the state carrying them? We probably prefer a 2-3 yo one but would buy new if it made the most sense. We’ve talked about driving to one of the internet sellers. I’m not sure how to go about this process! Without paying msrp.
So how does one purchase without any dealers in my part of the state carrying them? We probably prefer a 2-3 yo one but would buy new if it made the most sense. We’ve talked about driving to one of the internet sellers. I’m not sure how to go about this process! Without paying msrp.
With either the ROO/Flagstaff 233S or the Jayco. In real numbers without muddying it up with trades, taxes and fees, if you pay more than $20/21K with all options you left money on the table.
Getting pricing to use from RVW or RVOne to use in negotiations is one thing, actually buying from them is another. RVone completely disappears after the sale, and RVW pricing comes with caveats such as you must use their financing to get the quoted price. I know the Campers Inn locations in GA do not carry the Roo Hybrids. They're hard to deal with regardless, they basically suck.
I would look at Keystone Mega RV Center in Greencastle PA, probably 650 miles from you. They're a great dealer and have great pricing on the Flagstaff Shamrocks. They will beat or match RVW.
bernercamper wrote:
Which brings me to my next question. How to get it up a driveway with a 21 degree incline? I don’t know anyone with a tt to test it.
I read about flipping the axles and larger diameter tires. Does anyone know which hybrids have the most clearance? And are there other hybrids or tt you’d recommend I look at?
Which brings me to my next question. How to get it up a driveway with a 21 degree incline? I don’t know anyone with a tt to test it.
I read about flipping the axles and larger diameter tires. Does anyone know which hybrids have the most clearance? And are there other hybrids or tt you’d recommend I look at?
I don't see a transition to a 21 degree slope a huge issue with either, at least nothing that can't be overcome by using a ball mount with the lowest drop possible without scraping when putting it in the driveway, and maybe a plank or two at the transition. I think your worrying over nothing here.
The Jayco axles are already slung under the axles. The Roo has Dexter Torflex #10's and Dexter makes a lift bracket that will increase ride height 2.63". Its not recommended though becuase on the Roo's the axles are already mounted with 3" high profile brackets. You could always have a shop make alterations but that comes with a whole host of other issues it creates that I won't get into.
I believe you'll run into clearance issues going to larger tires on the Jayco, and know you will on a Roo. The clearance between tires on a Roo is about 1-1/2".
Now as far as hybrids. That was my 1st choice as we’ve had 3 pop-ups. I’m 66, my wife’s 55 and neither of us wanted to do anything more with canvas bedrooms, but, we like the room that a hybrid gives you when folded out. The beds aren’t in there taking up floor space. I really like the Roo’s construction and that would have been my choice. However, we camp a lot with the grandkids. Another reason not to have cloth or screen or zippers which fascinate little minds. Also not to mention the lack of insulation and the constant battle with condensation like we had with the pop-ups.
All this being said. We just purchased a 2018 Keystone Outback 250urs. It has bunk beds up front and a king size bedroom (rv king) that powered slides out the back of the trailer. The trailer’s dry weight is 5300#. My 1/2 tows it like a dream.
Bob & Sandy
2012 Dodge Ram 1500 Longhorn Edition 4x4
2018 Keystone Outback 250 URS travel trailer
DH camped in popups for years and doesn't mind them a bit. I have to have my own bed and toilet and a kitchenette wouldn't hurt. I've tent camped for years when young and it was fine. Didn't love it and I've developed some health problems so I think being more self-contained in a TT makes more sense now. I kind of worry a little about the condensation issues and noisy neighbors with a hybrid but if it's better than a tent I'll deal with it.
Jayco - I should have mentioned the 3-bed Jaycos as well. DH has some fears about our driveway - people who don't camp have said "how're you going to get a camper up that?" So we thought the shorter the camper, the better chance of not bottoming out if that makes sense. I looked at floorplans and videos and figured we could make a 2-bed hybrid work to save a couple feet in length. Wed just have to have 2 kids on the dinette every night.
That hitch weight mentioned above scares me. I'm trying to understand all the numbers and I've come a little way - I'm not looking at 9000 pound trailers ha ha! But yeah to get a smaller hitch weight and be able to sleep everyone - idk how to do that.
The big internet sellers - that is totally uncharted territory for us so thank you for the warnings and recommendations. Also the prices we should be budgeting on. DH wanted older but I think I'm convincing him that hybrids seem almost "disposable" with a 10-year lifespan and more maintenance issues than other types of trailers so it doesn't seem like it makes sense to buy an old one with an uncertain past. I will definitely check out the seller in Pennsylvania.
The technical aspects of increasing clearance - that's good to know. I just figured as long as bottoming out is an unknown, the higher the better? But we'd feel better not doing modifications.
And I will go read up on the Keystone Outback - we are closing in on 50 and I've got RA so the easier the better in my book. We went to an RV show in Atlanta and what a disappointment. It was mostly giant motorhomes. There was one hybrid an two popups. And one other TT that interested me - an Aerolite with THREE double bunks and a separate queen size bed in the front. But I've never heard of Aerolite or Keystone really for that matter. I need to "buy my second trailer first" as y'all say and with 2 boys and 2 girls I'm trying to picture how they're going to need to sleep as teens. But the Outback 250urs gives me encouragement to check out the shorter bunkhouse trailers wrt my driveway.
We've only got 2wd so we wondered if we would need to pull the trailer up forward then unhitch and turn the expedition around in the yard! I've read about transmissions overheating in reverse but out driveway is really short. Like 40 feet long maybe? I figured towing up then later backing down could be easier on us and the transmission.
UPDATE! I just asked DH and he can't find the calculations... and he did it last year so I'm not 100% sure if the driveway is 21 degrees or 21%. Probably whichever is steeper!
* This post was edited 02/03/18 08:18am by bernercamper *
bernercamper wrote:
UPDATE! I just asked DH and he corrected me! Our driveway is NOT 21 degrees, it's a 21% slope! Yikes. Sorry I got that totally wrong. So if you are still reading and know, let me know what you think!
UPDATE! I just asked DH and he corrected me! Our driveway is NOT 21 degrees, it's a 21% slope! Yikes. Sorry I got that totally wrong. So if you are still reading and know, let me know what you think!
Hold on a second. A 21% is not as steep as a 21 degree slope. A 21% slope, 21 feet of rise per 100' is a little less than 12 degrees.
A 21 degree is almost a 5/12 pitch on a roof. 21 degrees in terms of grade is somewhere around a 39.7% slope.
I'm cornfused.
Ralph Cramden wrote:
Hold on a second. A 21% is not as steep as a 21 degree slope. A 21% slope, 21 feet of rise per 100' is a little less than 12 degrees.
A 21 degree is almost a 5/12 pitch on a roof. 21 degrees in terms of grade is somewhere around a 39.7% slope.
I'm cornfused.
bernercamper wrote:
UPDATE! I just asked DH and he corrected me! Our driveway is NOT 21 degrees, it's a 21% slope! Yikes. Sorry I got that totally wrong. So if you are still reading and know, let me know what you think!
UPDATE! I just asked DH and he corrected me! Our driveway is NOT 21 degrees, it's a 21% slope! Yikes. Sorry I got that totally wrong. So if you are still reading and know, let me know what you think!
Hold on a second. A 21% is not as steep as a 21 degree slope. A 21% slope, 21 feet of rise per 100' is a little less than 12 degrees.
A 21 degree is almost a 5/12 pitch on a roof. 21 degrees in terms of grade is somewhere around a 39.7% slope.
I'm cornfused.
AACK me too. I've forgotten all my math! It must be the 21 degree slope. I ought to just take a photo and upload it.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/1qNxDEtl.jpg)
1999 R-Vision Trail Light B17 hybrid
2006 Explorer Eddie Bauer
2002 Xterra rollin’ on 33’s
1993 Chevy Z24 Convertible
Lives in garage 71,000 miles
We have purchased 4 out of 5 of our RVs at least 300 miles from home. Our first popup, we purchased from friends when they upgraded to a motorhome. Yeah, from a popup to a motorhome. We went popup, hybrid, TT bunkhouse, fifth wheel bunkhouse and now another fifth wheel.
My DH is fairly handy and other than the latest problem with our NEW fifth wheel, he has fixed/repaired everything that has happened to our different vehicles.
With 8 kids, I figure you are probably pretty handy with fixing things around the house, so a trailer will probably not be a problem. Youtube is great with almost any repair you need to do.
Most trailers can be worked on by any REPUTABLE dealer, but there are also RV Techs around that might even be easier to use.
As for backing it in, we have a humongous hill that we live on and a 43' 5th wheel, so backing it uphill is a norm for us.
2017 Ford F350 Crew Cab 6.7L 4x4 DRW
All I could afford wrote:
Personally, I’d take a good look at the Rockwood Roo 183. Manageable size and 3 separate double beds to sleep 6 people without converting the dinette, and without having to climb over it.
Personally, I’d take a good look at the Rockwood Roo 183. Manageable size and 3 separate double beds to sleep 6 people without converting the dinette, and without having to climb over it.
So this is like the 233s except without slide and U-dinette? So we would save weight and length with this but have a smaller eating area. I like this too - but prefer the 233s unless it's a ton more or too heavy. Thank you!
Merrykalia wrote:
IF you purchase used, there won't be any warranty work. Most warrantys are good for one year, maybe two. Usually, most warranty work and major stuff is done in the first year or so.
We have purchased 4 out of 5 of our RVs at least 300 miles from home. Our first popup, we purchased from friends when they upgraded to a motorhome. Yeah, from a popup to a motorhome. We went popup, hybrid, TT bunkhouse, fifth wheel bunkhouse and now another fifth wheel.
My DH is fairly handy and other than the latest problem with our NEW fifth wheel, he has fixed/repaired everything that has happened to our different vehicles.
With 8 kids, I figure you are probably pretty handy with fixing things around the house, so a trailer will probably not be a problem. Youtube is great with almost any repair you need to do.
Most trailers can be worked on by any REPUTABLE dealer, but there are also RV Techs around that might even be easier to use.
As for backing it in, we have a humongous hill that we live on and a 43' 5th wheel, so backing it uphill is a norm for us.
IF you purchase used, there won't be any warranty work. Most warrantys are good for one year, maybe two. Usually, most warranty work and major stuff is done in the first year or so.
We have purchased 4 out of 5 of our RVs at least 300 miles from home. Our first popup, we purchased from friends when they upgraded to a motorhome. Yeah, from a popup to a motorhome. We went popup, hybrid, TT bunkhouse, fifth wheel bunkhouse and now another fifth wheel.
My DH is fairly handy and other than the latest problem with our NEW fifth wheel, he has fixed/repaired everything that has happened to our different vehicles.
With 8 kids, I figure you are probably pretty handy with fixing things around the house, so a trailer will probably not be a problem. Youtube is great with almost any repair you need to do.
Most trailers can be worked on by any REPUTABLE dealer, but there are also RV Techs around that might even be easier to use.
As for backing it in, we have a humongous hill that we live on and a 43' 5th wheel, so backing it uphill is a norm for us.
Thanks do you know how steep your driveway is? I'm going to get a pic of mine from the side. But yikes 43' that's shocking lol!
Yes I am handy - I work on house and cars when I can - DH could do a lot too though he's not so mechanically inclined.
I would totally buy used - just nervous is all. I need to narrow down and look on rvt at used as well. I am afraid of buying water problems!
Well that's all encouraging. I'm going to try to upload some photos. DH is such a worrywart about the backing. I don't blame him though - we've seen UPS or other drag a tailpipe on the road backing up.
Jayfeather X23 F
This is in Roanoke, VA and will be about 6 hours from you.
233S Rockwood
This is located just north of Knoxville in Clinton, TN. This would only be a little over 2 hours from you. A friend of ours purchased their Aframe camper from there and could not speak highly enough of them.
This search took me less than 3 minutes to find those two.
Not sure if the newer models have the issue.
2015 Keystone Springdale Summerland 257rl
Tow vehicle: 2003 GMC K1500 ext lb
Previous: 14 years of 3 popups and a hybrid tt
My wife and I were just talking about campers the other day...her parents moved from a hybrid to a small hard side, since it is only 2 of them camping now.
To get the amount of floorspace and "real" beds we have now (not dinette beds or fold down couches, which it also has in a pinch) in a hard side, we would need a huge camper, and a new truck to pull it with.
We started camping with a pop up and enjoy the tent beds instead of hate them. They really increase the feeling of space in the camper because the beds don't cut into the floor space.
Especially in nice weather when you can open all the windows.
Ours is pretty big for a hybrid, but has lots of ground clearance. I have yet to drag anything with it.
The only issue we have had with it is that the Furrion DVD players keep dying. I called Furrion for a replacement, and the new upgraded model they sent for free is having issues reading disks again after only a year. Not Starcraft's fault though, other than the brand they chose!
https://starcraftrv.com/travel-trailers/launch-outfitter/239tbs/
![[image]](http://images.nadaguides.com/CRS/Floorplans/2014_Starcraft_TravelStarExpandable_239TBS.jpg)
2015 Starcraft TravelStar 239TBS 6500 GVWR
1997 GMC Suburban K2500 7.4 Vortec/4.10
1977 Kawasaki KZ1000
My 2007 Expedition V8 was to the point of mileage (about 190K) and age I really didn't want to tow with it anymore so a new-last July '17 Expedition has assumed those duties. As the age and mileage builds these vehicles need more and more TLC.
I'd not buy a used hybrid from a dealer as you can probably buy new from a dealer like RVWholesalers whose business model is based on quantity. They're only a couple of hours from Forest River over in Indiana so they have quick access and quick ordering. 2019 models will be on the lots very soon if not already so 2018 trailers are already "last year's models." Keep in mind.
'06 Roo 23SS behind '17 Expedition out of Richmond
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I am wanting to buy now - I narrowed it down to the 3 bed w slide option and prefer the Roo 233s or shamrock because of the glass shower door. Small thing but something I think I'd appreciate!
I got a quote and a lot of emails from RVWholesale in Ohio? I haven't actually called them as I don't know if I want to finance and through who. Plus there were a couple of other wholesale business model dealers mentioned upthread - RV Direct and RV One. Or are they one and the same?
But I booked a week at a campground in June so I'd better get this going!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Regarding the Expedition, mine's a 2007 with about 125k, and we'll drive it as long as we can.
bernercamper wrote:
I got a quote and a lot of emails from RVWholesale in Ohio? I haven't actually called them as I don't know if I want to finance and through who. Plus there were a couple of other wholesale business model dealers mentioned upthread - RV Direct and RV One. Or are they one and the same?
I got a quote and a lot of emails from RVWholesale in Ohio? I haven't actually called them as I don't know if I want to finance and through who. Plus there were a couple of other wholesale business model dealers mentioned upthread - RV Direct and RV One. Or are they one and the same?
None of them are wholesale as there is no such thing in the RV Industry. They are just dealers the same as any other and in the local markets where located they can be beat on both price and service if that's what you're looking for.
RV wholesalers pricing will be contingent on financing through them, pay cash or bring your own financing to the table, add money.
RV One and RV Direct are the same dealerships. 3 card Monty with websites.
If you're willing to buy at a distance and are looking at the Roos or Shamrocks get pricing from.........
Labadie RV in Toledo OH. Good people and in the same local market as RVW. They'll compete with RVW with none of the financing games. (Rockwood Roo)
Keystone RV Mega Center in Greencastle PA, or Best Choice trailers in Irwin PA. Both will match or beat the self proclaimed wholesalers on price. (Flagstaff Shamrock)
The only ramifications to buying at a distance other than the obvious is if you should ever need warranty work you could get in a pickle as some dealers close to you may flat out refuse doing it, some may do it but you'll wait forever, but you may get lucky and find one that accommodates you.
Personally if I'm saving over $3K to $4K by going 1K miles or more away from home, I'm going, as I am of the opinion the RV manufacturers warranty is about as worthless as teets on a bull.
* This post was edited 04/03/18 02:27am by Ralph Cramden *
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
No price games then. That's their trade name. All dealers buy directly from the manufacturer, no middlemen. But big volume sales shops get a price break. And don't forget the freight cost from the factory to the dealer.RV makers basically warrant the shell of the camper. Bad axle? Contact the axle maker. Bad appliances? Contact their maker. Bad CD player? Audio systems are what you can buy for $11 from China so don't expect them to be audiophile systems.
Keep in mind there are "twins" in the industry. This lets there be a "Forest River Roo" dealer on one side of town and a "Flagstaff Shamrock" dealer on the other, both with exclusive sales territories. The decals differ, they're made on the same assembly line by the same minimum wage "craftsmen." OK, maybe their salaries are higher but you can bet the guy doing the Pre-Delivery inspection doesn't make much more than that. The dealer is the final inspection. Be prepared to recover lost screws, wood chips, etc.
This time of year be prepared to wait weeks for low demand/profit trailers. The 16 and 18 footers take a very long time. Makers like Forest River make one (1) model trailer at time in batches. The Roos and Shamrocks come down the line together -- just the decals, remember? Not worth changing the line over for some models that aren't in demand.
-- Chuck