So after all that, if I have 2 2000i hooked together do I have to have a bonded plug in both generators or just one to make theEMS allow power?
Also does anyone know where I can get a good price on a 2000 Companion?
Thanks
Butch
I try to always leave doubt to my ignorance rather than prove it
2021 Winnebago View
And it's not just inv gens, they're all that way.
ScottG wrote:
Just one bonded plug will do it.
And it's not just inv gens, they're all that way.
Just one bonded plug will do it.
And it's not just inv gens, they're all that way.
If by "they're all that way" you're saying that all inverter gensets have floating neutral outputs as does the Honda EU2000i that's not true at all. Generally speaking, portable inverter gensets intended for temporary use such as with RVs do have a floating neutral output which plays fine with RVs, individual appliances, small tools, etc but if an EMS is plugged into the genset's output it will interprete that floating neutral as an open ground and refuse to pass power to the RV. The solution is to use a bonding plug on the genset's output so neutral is bonded directly to ground, in which case the EMS will be perfectly happy. If 2 gensets are paralled together only one bonding plug is required. Alternately, just remove the EMS from the circuit and plug the trailer directly into the trailer's floating neutral output. Honda's EU2000i would be an example of this.
OTOH, gensets designed for the trades and intended to be normally used on construction sites must meet OSHA requirements that require the neutral be bonded directly to the genset's ground via the chassis. Honda's EB2000i would be an example - still an inverter genset, actually the same genset as the EU2000i except for how the output is wired. From Honda's own EB2000i webpage -
"GFCI Protection
The EB2000i has full GFCI protection.
OSHA, LA-ETL, CARB, EPA Phase III and USDA Compliant
The EB2000i was designed to meet OSHA requirements, making it ideal for worksite applications."
Honda EB2000i Output Panel
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/4BjuSYql.png)
Taking the risk of adding to ScottG's comment, the absence or presence of a bonded output is not based on whether the generator uses conventional or inverter technology. It's based on a combination of the output power and target market of the generator.
2009 Fleetwood Icon
Another source is a honda authorized repair shop (Most around me are motorcycle, boat or lawnmower dealer/repair shops). You'll often find rebuilt or demo units for sale.
Butch50 wrote:
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek")
, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.
road-runner wrote:
As others have said, just one bonding plug needed. I suggest you use it on the same generator that the EMS is plugged into. Since the paralleling cables are not keyed, I'm thinking you would have a 50% probability of a hot-ground bond if the bonding plug was used with the generator that the EMS is not plugged into.
Taking the risk of adding to ScottG's comment, the absence or presence of a bonded output is not based on whether the generator uses conventional or inverter technology. It's based on a combination of the output power and target market of the generator.
As others have said, just one bonding plug needed. I suggest you use it on the same generator that the EMS is plugged into. Since the paralleling cables are not keyed, I'm thinking you would have a 50% probability of a hot-ground bond if the bonding plug was used with the generator that the EMS is not plugged into.
Taking the risk of adding to ScottG's comment, the absence or presence of a bonded output is not based on whether the generator uses conventional or inverter technology. It's based on a combination of the output power and target market of the generator.
I've run parallel hondas for years, and my experience is it doesn't make any difference which one has the bonding plug. but I also use the ground lug common on both.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!
SoundGuy wrote:
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.
Butch50 wrote:
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig
, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries. We ordered our rig with dual panes to help out a bit with A/C or heat. I also took put the puny little fan in the bathroom out and added a Maxx Air fan. When we open the windows on each sde of the bedroom the bathroom and kitchen Maxx Air pulls fresh air through the bedroom pretty good. As long as I have air moving around me I can handle pretty hot temps and my wife handles it better than I do. In the evenings we sit on our deck in the summer (it is shaded) and just have our ceiling fan on and I'm fine, this is in 90+ degree weaher in AR with the humidty.
I really don't want to go through the hassle to sell both generators as everybody basically want to steal them from you. The Yamaha has less than an hour on it and has remote electric start it just that it weights over 160#. This is just to much for me to get out of the bed of the truck by myself (at home I have a portable lift to take it out). I want to be able to take the Honda's out of the truck in case I need to go to town without the wife. I would not want her to not be able to run at least one air. Also we have our dog and there might be times we need to leave her in the trailer (now most of the time we would have power hook up for that) but for a short time I might want to run an A/C.
2 Honda 2200 would only give me a little over 3 amps of additional power. That wouldn't be worth the expense to me. My Honda 2000 that I have now only has about 5 hours on it. It has been to Alaska and back but most of the time we just didn't need air so it just took a 11,000 mile ride with us.
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries. We ordered our rig with dual panes to help out a bit with A/C or heat. I also took put the puny little fan in the bathroom out and added a Maxx Air fan. When we open the windows on each sde of the bedroom the bathroom and kitchen Maxx Air pulls fresh air through the bedroom pretty good. As long as I have air moving around me I can handle pretty hot temps and my wife handles it better than I do. In the evenings we sit on our deck in the summer (it is shaded) and just have our ceiling fan on and I'm fine, this is in 90+ degree weaher in AR with the humidty.
I really don't want to go through the hassle to sell both generators as everybody basically want to steal them from you. The Yamaha has less than an hour on it and has remote electric start it just that it weights over 160#. This is just to much for me to get out of the bed of the truck by myself (at home I have a portable lift to take it out). I want to be able to take the Honda's out of the truck in case I need to go to town without the wife. I would not want her to not be able to run at least one air. Also we have our dog and there might be times we need to leave her in the trailer (now most of the time we would have power hook up for that) but for a short time I might want to run an A/C.
2 Honda 2200 would only give me a little over 3 amps of additional power. That wouldn't be worth the expense to me. My Honda 2000 that I have now only has about 5 hours on it. It has been to Alaska and back but most of the time we just didn't need air so it just took a 11,000 mile ride with us.
Thanks for everybodys responses and I'll have to start watching CL list and check with Honda if they might get any in that have been refurbished. The only problem with this is most of them are probably going to be straight 2000 and not the Companion with the 30 amp outlet. I know it is not an RV 30 but I already have the correct plug and used it when I had the Yamaha hooked up to the trailer to see if it would work.
If you read all of this thanks for you taking the time to read it. Sorry to be so long winded but it seems the older I get the more I type.
It is a nice enough day I'm going to see about unloading the front compartment and getting ready for the battery and inverter install.
ktmrfs wrote:
I've run parallel hondas for years, and my experience is it doesn't make any difference which one has the bonding plug. but I also use the ground lug common on both.
I'm just thinking it through, which I realize can be dangerous. Say generator #1 has the bonding plug and generator #2 has the EMS plugged into it, and the parallel cable connectors through random insertion are plugged in so the neutral side of the outlet on generator #1 is connected the hot side of the outlet on generator #2. Neutral side of #1 is connected to frame ground, neutral side of #1 is also connected to hot side of #2, therefore the hot side of #2 is connected to frame ground. If you've in fact been randomly plugging in the parallel connectors and powering an EMS on the generator without the bonding plug, then either the EMS is not detecting a hot-ground short or my thinking is bogus. I'd guess probability favors the EMS being ok.
I've run parallel hondas for years, and my experience is it doesn't make any difference which one has the bonding plug. but I also use the ground lug common on both.
I do it with my Honda 3000 and with small furniture cart, it is quite easy to disconnect it at campgrounds
Front load also helps with weigh distribution, what is big hassle with Truck Campers.
2015 Ram 1500
2022 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE
I have fashioned so many receptacles for generator sets I could have set some kind of record.
- Buy some liquitite strain-relief bungs to fit a cord that is appropriately sized to fit the generator
- Cut a metal plate to mask the original generator receptacle cutout
- Cut out a hole in the plate for the liquitite fitting
- Pop rivet the plate to the generator
- Select a female socket to match your cord. Be sure the socket is nylon not plastic
- Isolating the socket from the motor vibration works wonders to eliminate yadda-yadda-yadda contact fatigue in the receptacle
- The nylon body of the receptacle is almost vibration scuff proof.
Butch50 wrote:
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
SoundGuy wrote:
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig
, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.Butch50 wrote:
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.
Well here's another solution. Keep your current EU2000i, sell the Yamaha, use a small portion of the proceeds to buy a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, install it on your 13,500 BTU A/C, and pocket the rest of the cash you'll have left over to pay for a nice camping vacation. With your smaller A/C so equipped a single EU2000i will easily start and power it with no difficulty at all, you'll only ever have to deal with one 50 lb genset, won't have to fuss with a parallel kit, and you'll have cash back in your pocket to boot. If you later decide you really do need that second EU2000i then you can always add one later. Win - Win.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
Kayteg1 wrote:
Have you been considering putting Yamaha on front hitch?
I do it with my Honda 3000 and with small furniture cart, it is quite easy to disconnect it at campgrounds
Front load also helps with weigh distribution, what is big hassle with Truck Campers.
Have you been considering putting Yamaha on front hitch?
I do it with my Honda 3000 and with small furniture cart, it is quite easy to disconnect it at campgrounds
Front load also helps with weigh distribution, what is big hassle with Truck Campers.
As matter of fact I was going to do this and installed a front hitch on the truck and bought a Tork Lift lock and load. The lock and load is right at 85# by itself and the over 160# for the generator. I'm not worried about the weight on the front axle as I still have right a 1,000# left on my front axle rating but this to much for me to try to move by myself. I'm 69 years old and still in pretty good shape but not in good enough to lift that kind of weight. In my younger days I could have probably lifted the genrator by myself but that is a lot of years ago.
Can you give me an idea of what type furniture cart you are using?
Thanks
ON EDIT: I just looked up a furiture cart and don't know how I would be able to get the generator on it?
* This post was edited 01/25/18 04:43pm by Butch50 *
SoundGuy wrote:
Well here's another solution. Keep your current EU2000i, sell the Yamaha, use a small portion of the proceeds to buy a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, install it on your 13,500 BTU A/C, and pocket the rest of the cash you'll have left over to pay for a nice camping vacation. With your smaller A/C so equipped a single EU2000i will easily start and power it with no difficulty at all, you'll only ever have to deal with one 50 lb genset, won't have to fuss with a parallel kit, and you'll have cash back in your pocket to boot. If you later decide you really do need that second EU2000i then you can always add one later. Win - Win.
Butch50 wrote:
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
SoundGuy wrote:
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig
, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.Butch50 wrote:
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.
Well here's another solution. Keep your current EU2000i, sell the Yamaha, use a small portion of the proceeds to buy a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, install it on your 13,500 BTU A/C, and pocket the rest of the cash you'll have left over to pay for a nice camping vacation. With your smaller A/C so equipped a single EU2000i will easily start and power it with no difficulty at all, you'll only ever have to deal with one 50 lb genset, won't have to fuss with a parallel kit, and you'll have cash back in your pocket to boot. If you later decide you really do need that second EU2000i then you can always add one later. Win - Win.
Good call SoundGuy. Those micro-air easy start seem to be the ticket. A lot of happy customers that install those.
12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,500+ partial cycles.
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.
I guess try and find out if it works before investing some more money.
Thanks
You may need to bond the 30 amp outlet however Not sure if the ground is conneted to the one on the 20 amp outlet. If it is not, jumper the back of the outlet
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times
Butch50 wrote:
SoundGuy,
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.
SoundGuy,
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.
There are several here on the forum who are now running their Easy Start equipped 13,500 BTU A/C with a single EU2000i with no problems at all as long as temps are under 100F and elevation is below ~ 5000' ... perhaps one of them will chime in on this discussion, otherwise just search for "Easy Start" and you're bound to find some testimonials. I just wish I'd known about the Micro-Air back when I owned my own EU2000i as I probably wouldn't have sold the genset after all.
SoundGuy wrote:
Well here's another solution. Keep your current EU2000i, sell the Yamaha, use a small portion of the proceeds to buy a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, install it on your 13,500 BTU A/C, and pocket the rest of the cash you'll have left over to pay for a nice camping vacation. With your smaller A/C so equipped a single EU2000i will easily start and power it with no difficulty at all, you'll only ever have to deal with one 50 lb genset, won't have to fuss with a parallel kit, and you'll have cash back in your pocket to boot. If you later decide you really do need that second EU2000i then you can always add one later. Win - Win.
Butch50 wrote:
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.
SoundGuy wrote:
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig
, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.Butch50 wrote:
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.
Well here's another solution. Keep your current EU2000i, sell the Yamaha, use a small portion of the proceeds to buy a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, install it on your 13,500 BTU A/C, and pocket the rest of the cash you'll have left over to pay for a nice camping vacation. With your smaller A/C so equipped a single EU2000i will easily start and power it with no difficulty at all, you'll only ever have to deal with one 50 lb genset, won't have to fuss with a parallel kit, and you'll have cash back in your pocket to boot. If you later decide you really do need that second EU2000i then you can always add one later. Win - Win.
well, easily start yes. run, depends a lot on altitude. I have the easy start and yes even at 4500ft startup is easy peasy with the easy start. But I've found at about 3500-4000 ft is the limit for the honda 2000 and my coleman MachIII. Around 4000+ ft it will trip out on overload after 15-20 minutes. It's to close to the limit.
Now the new honda 2200, likely would work fine.
SoundGuy wrote:
There are several here on the forum who are now running their Easy Start equipped 13,500 BTU A/C with a single EU2000i with no problems at all as long as temps are under 100F and elevation is below ~ 5000' ... perhaps one of them will chime in on this discussion, otherwise just search for "Easy Start" and you're bound to find some testimonials. I just wish I'd known about the Micro-Air back when I owned my own EU2000i as I probably wouldn't have sold the genset after all.
Butch50 wrote:
SoundGuy,
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.
SoundGuy,
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.
There are several here on the forum who are now running their Easy Start equipped 13,500 BTU A/C with a single EU2000i with no problems at all as long as temps are under 100F and elevation is below ~ 5000' ... perhaps one of them will chime in on this discussion, otherwise just search for "Easy Start" and you're bound to find some testimonials. I just wish I'd known about the Micro-Air back when I owned my own EU2000i as I probably wouldn't have sold the genset after all.
YES, I have the easy start, used it quite a bit this last summer. Does what it claims, but the limit then becomes the generator output. I've found 3500ish ft is about the limit. 4500 ft no go after multiple attempts. yes, it started fine, but would consistently trip the overload after 15ish minutes. Again, no problem starting the AC, starts just fine, smooth as silk. And in my case I have a Coleman Mach III. Different AC may give different results on overload, but yes, somewhere between 4000 and 5000ft is likely the limit for any reasonable run time without overload.
Now the new honda 2200 likely would go from "almost" to "barely".
Butch50 wrote:
SoundGuy,
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.
I guess try and find out if it works before investing some more money.
Thanks
SoundGuy,
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.
I guess try and find out if it works before investing some more money.
Thanks
soft start and easy start are completely different animals. soft start install are still often not successful. It wasn't in my case much above sea level. still to high LRA. micro air easy start, another story on starting, but see my posts on altitude limitiation for extended run.
ktmrfs wrote:
well, easily start yes. run, depends a lot on altitude. I have the easy start and yes even at 4500ft startup is easy peasy with the easy start. But I've found at about 3500-4000 ft is the limit for the honda 2000 and my coleman MachIII. Around 4000+ ft it will trip out on overload after 15-20 minutes. It's to close to the limit.
Now the new honda 2200, likely would work fine.
well, easily start yes. run, depends a lot on altitude. I have the easy start and yes even at 4500ft startup is easy peasy with the easy start. But I've found at about 3500-4000 ft is the limit for the honda 2000 and my coleman MachIII. Around 4000+ ft it will trip out on overload after 15-20 minutes. It's to close to the limit.
Now the new honda 2200, likely would work fine.
At that altitude your EU2000i with a stock #62 main jet would seem to be suffering ~ 15% power loss ...
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/ropMhGgl.png)
So yes, an EU2200i just may offer enough more to solve this. Replacing a 13,500 BTU Coleman Mach III with a 13,500 BTU Coleman PS (Power Saving) model may be another solution ... or both.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
Above 5000' one would want to switch to the next size #60 jet, to a #58 above 10,000'.
Butch50 wrote:
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it.
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it.
ktmrfs wrote:
soft start and easy start are completely different animals. soft start install are still often not successful. It wasn't in my case much above sea level. still to high LRA. micro air easy start, another story on starting, but see my posts on altitude limitiation for extended run.
soft start and easy start are completely different animals. soft start install are still often not successful. It wasn't in my case much above sea level. still to high LRA. micro air easy start, another story on starting, but see my posts on altitude limitiation for extended run.
Let's not confuse the issue - Micro-Air itself refers to their Easy Start as a Soft Starter ...
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/CbVJqT1l.png)
Butch50 wrote:
Yea, I meant to say EasyStart not soft start. I have watched a lot of videos on the EasyStart and it looks pretty straight forward install.
Yea, I meant to say EasyStart not soft start. I have watched a lot of videos on the EasyStart and it looks pretty straight forward install.
I suspect you and ktmrfs are confusing the terms "soft start", "soft starter", and "hard start". The Micro-Air Easy Start is a soft starter but unfortunately hard start devices such as the popular Supco SPP6 are often interchangeably referred to by some as "hard" start or "soft" start. If what you're saying is the Easy Start is not at all like an SPP6 then you're absolutely correct, otherwise I have no idea what is meant when you and ktmrfs say the Easy Start is not a "soft start".
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
FWIW, I've been using an SPP6 for years on a variety of A/C units to ease start up but a hard start like this certainly doesn't solve the problem of starting a 13,500 BTU A/C with a 2K genset like the EU2000i when elevation is anything above sea level and ambient temps are anywhere above the mid 80s F. We don't often use A/C when camping even though we most often have shore power available, otherwise if we did and knowing what I know now I'd be investing in a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, whether I ever intended to power it with a genset or not.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
I'm talking of installing the EasyStart. I watched the video of how the EasyStart cuts down the draw when the A/C first starts up. I wish it was a little cheaper though. It is a pretty expensive little unit.
Thanks
Butch50 wrote:
I'm talking of installing the EasyStart. I watched the video of how the EasyStart cuts down the draw when the A/C first starts up. I wish it was a little cheaper though. It is a pretty expensive little unit.
I'm talking of installing the EasyStart. I watched the video of how the EasyStart cuts down the draw when the A/C first starts up. I wish it was a little cheaper though. It is a pretty expensive little unit.
I guess this depends on how you look at it ... while not inexpensive a Micro-Air Easy Start is far less expensive than having to own & operate 2 gensets or a larger 3000 watt genset like your Yamaha. JMO, but I'd sell the way too heavy Yamaha, invest in a Micro-Air Easy Start, and if your EU2000i sometimes proves insufficient because of altitude and/or ambient temperatures then consider replacing it with a new EU2200i which is no bigger and weighs no more than your EU2000i. As I said earlier it seems like a win - win to me.
SoundGuy wrote:
I suspect you and ktmrfs are confusing the terms "soft start", "soft starter", and "hard start". The Micro-Air Easy Start is a soft starter but unfortunately hard start devices such as the popular Supco SPP6 are often interchangeably referred to by some as "hard" start or "soft" start. If what you're saying is the Easy Start is not at all like an SPP6 then you're absolutely correct, otherwise I have no idea what is meant when you and ktmrfs say the Easy Start is not a "soft start".
FWIW, I've been using an SPP6 for years on a variety of A/C units to ease start up but a hard start like this certainly doesn't solve the problem of starting a 13,500 BTU A/C with a 2K genset like the EU2000i when elevation is anything above sea level and ambient temps are anywhere above the mid 80s F. We don't often use A/C when camping even though we most often have shore power available, otherwise if we did and knowing what I know now I'd be investing in a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, whether I ever intended to power it with a genset or not.
Butch50 wrote:
Yea, I meant to say EasyStart not soft start. I have watched a lot of videos on the EasyStart and it looks pretty straight forward install.
Yea, I meant to say EasyStart not soft start. I have watched a lot of videos on the EasyStart and it looks pretty straight forward install.
I suspect you and ktmrfs are confusing the terms "soft start", "soft starter", and "hard start". The Micro-Air Easy Start is a soft starter but unfortunately hard start devices such as the popular Supco SPP6 are often interchangeably referred to by some as "hard" start or "soft" start. If what you're saying is the Easy Start is not at all like an SPP6 then you're absolutely correct, otherwise I have no idea what is meant when you and ktmrfs say the Easy Start is not a "soft start".
FWIW, I've been using an SPP6 for years on a variety of A/C units to ease start up but a hard start like this certainly doesn't solve the problem of starting a 13,500 BTU A/C with a 2K genset like the EU2000i when elevation is anything above sea level and ambient temps are anywhere above the mid 80s F. We don't often use A/C when camping even though we most often have shore power available, otherwise if we did and knowing what I know now I'd be investing in a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, whether I ever intended to power it with a genset or not.
I also tried gthe SPP6 kit and my experience is consistant with yours. sea level, 80F or so the honda gives a mighty grunt and fires up the AC. push into the 90's or go above 1000ft and it gives a might grunt, and then trips out.
with the easy start the honda just smoothly ramps up rpm and AC comes on. Now the limit is what is your density altitude? to high and you will eventually kick out the generator for long term overload.
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
ktmrfs wrote:
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
Coleman Mach 3 P.S. compared to Coleman Mach 3 Plus ... same cooling ability but much lower continuous draw for the former would make powering this unit with a 2K genset much easier.
SoundGuy wrote:
Coleman Mach 3 P.S. compared to Coleman Mach 3 Plus ... same cooling ability but much lower continuous draw for the former would make powering this unit with a 2K genset much easier.
ktmrfs wrote:
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
Coleman Mach 3 P.S. compared to Coleman Mach 3 Plus ... same cooling ability but much lower continuous draw for the former would make powering this unit with a 2K genset much easier.
My small trailer has a coleman polar cub. 9,000BTU and it draws 9 amps max. Also has a much better start circuit with LRA around 30A. It starts and runs fine at 7000+ ft with my honda 2000, so the MachIII PS would likely run fine with the 2000 as well. Looks like the MachIII PS still has a pretty high LRA so starting may not be as easy, but the micro air fixes that.
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more. Why would you do that?
It’s so easy and so cheap to make your own parallel box, and there are a bunch of write-ups on it.
I like making them with an outlet box, an RV-30 receptacle, a face plate, and two 12-gauge power-tool replacement cords. The factory parallel kit is extremely overpriced and still is t what you need.
2017 Northern Lite 10-2 EX CD SE
99 Ram 4x4 Dually Cummins
A whole lot more fuel, a whole lot more boost.
4.10 gears, Gear Vendors overdrive, exhaust brake
Built auto, triple disc, billet shafts.
Kelderman Air Ride, Helwig sway bar.
burningman wrote:
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more.
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more.
The Companion's 30 amp receptacle is only "wrong" for RV use but it's not sold solely for use by RVrs, rather it's intended to be used as a general purpose portable generator by anyone for a variety of purposes and as such the Companion's 30 amp twist lock receptacle is entirely correct. For dedicated RV use there's not really any advantage to buying a Companion as it's 30 amp twist lock receptacle has to be converted to a TT-30 receptacle anyway.
SoundGuy wrote:
The Companion's 30 amp receptacle is only "wrong" for RV use but it's not sold solely for use by RVrs, rather it's intended to be used as a general purpose portable generator by anyone for a variety of purposes and as such the Companion's 30 amp twist lock receptacle is entirely correct. For dedicated RV use there's not really any advantage to buying a Companion as it's 30 amp twist lock receptacle has to be converted to a TT-30 receptacle anyway.
burningman wrote:
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more.
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more.
The Companion's 30 amp receptacle is only "wrong" for RV use but it's not sold solely for use by RVrs, rather it's intended to be used as a general purpose portable generator by anyone for a variety of purposes and as such the Companion's 30 amp twist lock receptacle is entirely correct. For dedicated RV use there's not really any advantage to buying a Companion as it's 30 amp twist lock receptacle has to be converted to a TT-30 receptacle anyway.
very true. the RV 120V 30A is the "odd man out" connector system. the twist lock is the standard 120V 30A outlet. Try finding an adapter that would go from 30A female RV to 30A female twist lock. If they exist, they are very hard to come by. There is a reason there are so many 30A twist lock to 30A RV adapters. The 30A RV is only NEC approved for RV use, nothing else.
ktmrfs wrote:
very true. the RV 120V 30A is the "odd man out" connector system. the twist lock is the standard 120V 30A outlet. Try finding an adapter that would go from 30A female RV to 30A female twist lock. If they exist, they are very hard to come by. There is a reason there are so many 30A twist lock to 30A RV adapters. The 30A RV is only NEC approved for RV use, nothing else.
very true. the RV 120V 30A is the "odd man out" connector system. the twist lock is the standard 120V 30A outlet. Try finding an adapter that would go from 30A female RV to 30A female twist lock. If they exist, they are very hard to come by. There is a reason there are so many 30A twist lock to 30A RV adapters. The 30A RV is only NEC approved for RV use, nothing else.
I think you mean 30A male RV to 30A female twist-lock, since female to female power adapters of any sort don't (or at least oughtn't) exist; using one would imply that there's a live male plug somewhere in the system.
Such adapters aren't super common, but they do exist. etrailer has a few, for instance. Still, your point is well-taken; the 30TT plug and socket are definitely an odd duck and probably only still around due to inertia and history.
So why shell out the extra $100?
burningman wrote:
But this one is being purchased for an RV, and the twist lock is the wrong outlet.
But this one is being purchased for an RV, and the twist lock is the wrong outlet.
The Honda EU2000i Companion was designed for the purpose of being paralleld to a standard version EU2000i, and as such is wired here in N America with an industry standard 30 amp twist lock receptacle. The EU2000i is sold around the world for an endless variety of purposes, if one wants to use it to power an RV manufactured here in N America then it's absurd to claim that the genset has the "wrong outlet" when if anything it's the N American RV industry that uses the "wrong outlet", the TT-30. Good grief, talk about myopic!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/doh.gif "doh")
Thanks to everyone's response. This has given me some things to ponder. I'm also working on my project of adding a 2000W inverter and additional batteries into my RV
* This post was edited 01/28/18 06:29pm by Butch50 *
ktmrfs wrote:
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
Do you happen to now which Dometic A/C work at lower current? My A/Cs are both Dometic. The 13,500 bedroom unitis a low profile and my RV was built last Sept. I have the sheet that the manufacturer sends with the units model # that they installed but the model # they have listed for my unit does not exist. There is one unit on Dometic site that is one number off in the middle of the model # so this might be it.
burningman wrote:
Buying the “Companion” EU2000, or passing up a deal on a regular EU2000 is ridiculous.
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more. Why would you do that?
It’s so easy and so cheap to make your own parallel box, and there are a bunch of write-ups on it.
I like making them with an outlet box, an RV-30 receptacle, a face plate, and two 12-gauge power-tool replacement cords. The factory parallel kit is extremely overpriced and still is t what you need.
Buying the “Companion” EU2000, or passing up a deal on a regular EU2000 is ridiculous.
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more. Why would you do that?
It’s so easy and so cheap to make your own parallel box, and there are a bunch of write-ups on it.
I like making them with an outlet box, an RV-30 receptacle, a face plate, and two 12-gauge power-tool replacement cords. The factory parallel kit is extremely overpriced and still is t what you need.
You do have a possibly unsafe condition doing it that way.
The way I did it was to buy the parallel cord kit, cut it in half and connect them to the RV 30 amp outlet in the box.
It is still not idiot proof, but I can unhook one generator and still have power to the camper and not worry about someone grabbing the end.
2000 F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
2018 Arctic Fox 27-5L
Butch50 wrote:
Do you happen to now which Dometic A/C work at lower current? My A/Cs are both Dometic. The 13,500 bedroom unitis a low profile and my RV was built last Sept. I have the sheet that the manufacturer sends with the units model # that they installed but the model # they have listed for my unit does not exist. There is one unit on Dometic site that is one number off in the middle of the model # so this might be it.
ktmrfs wrote:
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.
Do you happen to now which Dometic A/C work at lower current? My A/Cs are both Dometic. The 13,500 bedroom unitis a low profile and my RV was built last Sept. I have the sheet that the manufacturer sends with the units model # that they installed but the model # they have listed for my unit does not exist. There is one unit on Dometic site that is one number off in the middle of the model # so this might be it.
unfortunetly I don't have and emperical data. All I have is info when the topic of starting/running AC units, those with Dometic seem to have less trouble than those with Coleman Mach series.
Also, like you, the Coleman unit I have doesn't show on their website. The reason is that it is a unit built specifically for the OEM trailer mfg. rather than a replacement unit. differences are often very subtle, like different location for some wiring, and on occasion not so subtle like removing the start cap on the fan or compressor.
Now, in the last few years the AC mfg have started introducing "power saving" AC units, dropping the typical running current from 13-14A down to the 10-11 A range. while that doesn't sound like much, it is a big improvement when trying to run the AC units from a 2000VA generator. starting them can still be an issue.
dieseltruckdriver wrote:
You do have a possibly unsafe condition doing it that way.
The way I did it was to buy the parallel cord kit, cut it in half and connect them to the RV 30 amp outlet in the box.
It is still not idiot proof, but I can unhook one generator and still have power to the camper and not worry about someone grabbing the end.
burningman wrote:
Buying the “Companion” EU2000, or passing up a deal on a regular EU2000 is ridiculous.
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more. Why would you do that?
It’s so easy and so cheap to make your own parallel box, and there are a bunch of write-ups on it.
I like making them with an outlet box, an RV-30 receptacle, a face plate, and two 12-gauge power-tool replacement cords. The factory parallel kit is extremely overpriced and still is t what you need.
Buying the “Companion” EU2000, or passing up a deal on a regular EU2000 is ridiculous.
The Companion is no different other than having THE WRONG 30-amp plug mounted on it and it costs $100 more. Why would you do that?
It’s so easy and so cheap to make your own parallel box, and there are a bunch of write-ups on it.
I like making them with an outlet box, an RV-30 receptacle, a face plate, and two 12-gauge power-tool replacement cords. The factory parallel kit is extremely overpriced and still is t what you need.
You do have a possibly unsafe condition doing it that way.
The way I did it was to buy the parallel cord kit, cut it in half and connect them to the RV 30 amp outlet in the box.
It is still not idiot proof, but I can unhook one generator and still have power to the camper and not worry about someone grabbing the end.
yup, there is a reason these are often called "deadman's plug" or "deadmans cord" or "suicide plug"
As for my so-called dead man’s plug arrangement, I could just as well put banana plugs on the ends of my cords. If you’re that squeamish just do that.
I like mine with the regular plugs. It’s less hassle, I don’t have to get a screwdriver to connect the grounds, and if someone messes with my generators and gets zapped, GREAT!! It’s not my job or desire to make my stuff one million percent idiot proof in case someone with no business messing with it decides to put one of my plugs in their mouth.