![[image]](http://i63.tinypic.com/1z3nwuh.png)
So, sanity check time:
1.) I made an assumption on my hitch weight based on Rockwood's publicized 804 lbs assuming they got that number using the TT's GVWR. Is that reasonable or should I have just used the 804# number?
2.) I did purchase a WD hitch but I don't know the specifics (yet). Do these really weight a few hundred lbs? If so, I definitely need to include that in the calcs.
3.) For the experienced towers/campers that actually weigh their rigs, is 950 lbs. of dry cargo even a reasonable number for a TT this big? I would assume we have to pack incredibly light... and that may be a challenge knowing my wife.
4.) What other thoughts do you have besides the obvious I need to upgrade my tow vehicle? Will do so in time.
Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2022 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, WindyNation 300 watt solar-Lossigy 200 AH Lithium battery. Prefer boondocking, USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state camps. Bicyclist. 14 yr. Army -11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad
The “empty weight” can be several hundred pounds higher than the dry weight as dry does not usually include options, propane, battery etc. Look for a yellow sticker on specific trailers to get actual delivered weight. A family of 5 can easily add 1k of stuff to a trailer. You should count on at least 12percent of the loaded weight to be carried on the tongue. You’ll likely be fine if the Sequoia is empty and may even be ok (under tire and axle weights) with the family on board but you’ll be maxed out. The kids won’t get any smaller. I towed a similar size tt with an 07 Tundra (same platform and similar payload). We were 400lbs over payload but well under the tire (upgraded to E) and axle ratings. Towed great but we were always aware we were pushing the limits.
Camping should not be a stressful chore but it will quickly become one having to watch what you pack and still take 2 vehicles every time. You could make do with what you have but expect to upgrade in the near future.
* This post was edited 01/16/18 12:55pm by camp-n-family *
'17 Ram 2500 Crewcab Laramie CTD
'13 Keystone Bullet Premier 310BHPR
Hitched by Hensley
You can manage the length with good sway control. Don't let the dealer give you a **** hitch as part of their "hitch package", get either the Reese dual-cam setup or spring for a premium hitch like the Hensley or ProPride. The problem with the premium hitches is that they are heavy, which exacerbates your weight problems.
On to the weight...you're gonna be overweight no matter how you slice it. One thing you can do NOW is pack up the Toyota with the family and camping gear and head to a scale. Most moving companies and recycling centers have scales and they will let you weigh for $10 or so. Find out how much the Sequoia weighs fully loaded, then you can see how much you have left for tongue weight vs GVWR.
If you go ahead and buy this trailer, then I would plan your first trip at the closest CG you can find, maybe 30 mins away. See how it tows, and also take this opportunity to head back to the scales with the trailer attached.
Since you will have had the loaded truck already weighed, get one weight for the whole rig with truck and trailer on the scale, then weigh again with just the truck. The difference between the first truck weight and the second will give you the tongue weight, the difference between the truck and trailer vs just the truck, adding in the tongue weight, gives you the loaded trailer weight.
Your other option is to go back to the dealer and cut a deal on a different unit. The dealer is unlikely to let you back out of the deal altogether, may be flexible and let you buy a smaller unit.
If you move ahead with the purchase, be prepared to upgrade the tow vehicle before you get any real use out of the trailer. The numbers you posted have all the makings of a white knuckle trip for any distance on the interstate. The good news is that since you will have already weighed the loaded trailer, you will have accurate info to go truck shopping. I would say this is a job for a 250/2500 crew cab.
In general terms, you will add approximately 1500 lbs of "stuff" to a trailer that size, not including propane, batteries, or potable water.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
stevevalwa wrote:
What other thoughts do you have besides the obvious I need to upgrade my tow vehicle? Will do so in time.
What other thoughts do you have besides the obvious I need to upgrade my tow vehicle? Will do so in time.
Unfortunately you have a significant problem now, not "in time". Take a look at my own trailer towing calculations here and here. This is towing a 19' trailer averaging 4800 lbs loaded & ready to camp, average gross tongue weight ~ 620 lbs, with a 5.3L V8 Silverado, GVWR 7000 lbs, GCWR 15,000 lbs ... yet I'm almost completely out of payload capacity.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek")
Your situation is SO much worse, your Sequoia isn't even remotely close to being suitable for towing a trailer of this size. FWIW, these calculations aren't any different than what one can do manually with a calculator, the worksheet just does it for you. If you'd like an .xls copy PM me with an email addy that accepts attachments and I'll forward a copy you can plug your own numbers into. Believe it though, you won't like the results. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2003 Fleetwood Yuma * 2008 K-Z Spree 240BH-LX
2007 TrailCruiser C21RBH * 2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe
1998 Jayco 10UD * 1969 Coleman CT380
The tongue weight will probably be at or over 1000lbs, loaded for camping. I doubt if that leaves much left over.
Dan- Firefighter, Retired">, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur">, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP">), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes
bikendan wrote:
OP posted every spec for his Sequoia, except payload capacity as equipped. The tongue weight will probably be at or over 1000lbs, loaded for camping. I doubt if that leaves much left over.
OP posted every spec for his Sequoia, except payload capacity as equipped. The tongue weight will probably be at or over 1000lbs, loaded for camping. I doubt if that leaves much left over.
No question - with gear for a family of 5 this trailer will easily weigh in excess of 8000 lbs loaded & ready to camp, 13% to 14% gross tongue weight will easily hit 1100 lbs, if not more. No way his Sequoia has sufficient payload capacity.
Search this forum, I'm pretty sure I read some posts from a guy towing a similar sized TT with a sequoia, and he seemed ok with it. He had some pretty good details about towing with it. I'm pretty sure it was on here.
2022 Ford F-350 7.3l
2002 Chevy Silverado 1500HD 6.0l 268k miles (retired)
2016 Heritage Glen 29BH
2003 Flagstaff 228D Pop Up
Course you are using published numbers in your calculations which are NOT real numbers ------they are AVG for Base Model
The 804# published weight is DRY weight based on the DRY trailer weight of 6646# which is slightly over 12% ratio
Using 7600# MAX weight and 12% your tongue weight will be closer to 920#
Your Toyota Rear Axle only has 1380# (RAWR minus published 'curb' weight weight).
920# of that is going to tongue weight leaving only 460# before reaching MAX RAWR
460# minus 100# for WDH......now you are down to 360# which is most likely even less due to ACTUAL Vehicle weights at a Scale.
Your trailer UVW of 6646# is also a DRY Base model weight (published number---not actual scaled number)
Less than a 1000# capacity before reaching your 7600# goal weight
You are OVER Trailered OR actually UNDER Trucked........
So IF you have this trailer then best thing you can do right NOW.........use two vehicles and pack as much as possible in 2nd vehicle and keep trailer weight down to 7000# total
Still going to be UNDER trucked
Is it time for your medication or mine?
2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31
Sequoia towing at max for over 5,000 miles - comfortably
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29357665/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1
I still question the payload, but this thread might give you some good info.
You also don't take WDH setup weight into account - that's at least another 90-100lbs. Payload will be exceeded before the mythical tow capacity number - if it's 1230 as you state, then after you hook up, you will have less than 100 lbs left. Do you weigh less that thet?
High walled TT's push a lot of wind at highway speeds. Prepare for white knuckle syndrome as Your engine and transmission struggle to come up to speed in calm conditions. Be prepared to feel like your driving a waterbed - especially when a semi passes you.
And having to scrape the bottom of the barrel by putting everyone else in another vehicle is pitiful. Maybe have them follow with the hazard lights flashing?
What are the ratings on the tires? Are they passenger car tires?
Good luck.
Experience without good judgment is worthless; good judgment without experience is still good judgment!
2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn CTD
2018 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS
wowens79 wrote:
I found the post I was thinking about.
Sequoia towing at max for over 5,000 miles - comfortably
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29357665/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1
I still question the payload, but this thread might give you some good info.
I found the post I was thinking about.
Sequoia towing at max for over 5,000 miles - comfortably
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29357665/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1
I still question the payload, but this thread might give you some good info.
Hey, that's my thread!
OP, this trailer is starting out with a very heavy hitch weight for our Sequoia. My Grand Design 2800bh runs around 900lbs WITH the Hensley hitch and WDH bars attached to the trailer. (I've scaled as high as 960lbs)
There's not much chance you'll keep that Rockwood under 1000lbs and thus its really out of the picture...or the Sequoia is out...as would be most 1/2 ton trucks you'll find if you run the same spread sheet you put together...with real weights.
Keep in mind tires and tire PSI is critical and I would never ever recommend anyone tow something this large with 1/2 SUV (or even truck for that matter) without a Hensley or Propride hitch.
Don't let anyone tell you the Hensley and Propride are band-aids or over kill. They will make your TT tow like a 5th wheel. No joke.
I would go so far as saying they are required for short wheel base SUV's and I give my highest recommendation for any 1/2 ton towing anything over 25ft.
It took me a long time to finally throw down and buy one, and I'll never go back.
Add to that, I have lost count on how many 1/2 ton owners and even a couple 3/4 ton owners switching to the Hensley or Propride have thanked me over the years for the advice in just 3-4 years. It saved them tens of thousands, from not buying a bigger truck and 5th wheel trailer.
BurbMan wrote:
Couple thoughts...first off, don't feel bad about your mistake, I made the same mistake as did a lot of other folks here.
You can manage the length with good sway control. Don't let the dealer give you a **** hitch as part of their "hitch package", get either the Reese dual-cam setup or spring for a premium hitch like the Hensley or ProPride. The problem with the premium hitches is that they are heavy, which exacerbates your weight problems.
On to the weight...you're gonna be overweight no matter how you slice it. One thing you can do NOW is pack up the Toyota with the family and camping gear and head to a scale. Most moving companies and recycling centers have scales and they will let you weigh for $10 or so. Find out how much the Sequoia weighs fully loaded, then you can see how much you have left for tongue weight vs GVWR.
If you go ahead and buy this trailer, then I would plan your first trip at the closest CG you can find, maybe 30 mins away. See how it tows, and also take this opportunity to head back to the scales with the trailer attached.
Since you will have had the loaded truck already weighed, get one weight for the whole rig with truck and trailer on the scale, then weigh again with just the truck. The difference between the first truck weight and the second will give you the tongue weight, the difference between the truck and trailer vs just the truck, adding in the tongue weight, gives you the loaded trailer weight.
Your other option is to go back to the dealer and cut a deal on a different unit. The dealer is unlikely to let you back out of the deal altogether, may be flexible and let you buy a smaller unit.
If you move ahead with the purchase, be prepared to upgrade the tow vehicle before you get any real use out of the trailer. The numbers you posted have all the makings of a white knuckle trip for any distance on the interstate. The good news is that since you will have already weighed the loaded trailer, you will have accurate info to go truck shopping. I would say this is a job for a 250/2500 crew cab.
In general terms, you will add approximately 1500 lbs of "stuff" to a trailer that size, not including propane, batteries, or potable water.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
Couple thoughts...first off, don't feel bad about your mistake, I made the same mistake as did a lot of other folks here.
You can manage the length with good sway control. Don't let the dealer give you a **** hitch as part of their "hitch package", get either the Reese dual-cam setup or spring for a premium hitch like the Hensley or ProPride. The problem with the premium hitches is that they are heavy, which exacerbates your weight problems.
On to the weight...you're gonna be overweight no matter how you slice it. One thing you can do NOW is pack up the Toyota with the family and camping gear and head to a scale. Most moving companies and recycling centers have scales and they will let you weigh for $10 or so. Find out how much the Sequoia weighs fully loaded, then you can see how much you have left for tongue weight vs GVWR.
If you go ahead and buy this trailer, then I would plan your first trip at the closest CG you can find, maybe 30 mins away. See how it tows, and also take this opportunity to head back to the scales with the trailer attached.
Since you will have had the loaded truck already weighed, get one weight for the whole rig with truck and trailer on the scale, then weigh again with just the truck. The difference between the first truck weight and the second will give you the tongue weight, the difference between the truck and trailer vs just the truck, adding in the tongue weight, gives you the loaded trailer weight.
Your other option is to go back to the dealer and cut a deal on a different unit. The dealer is unlikely to let you back out of the deal altogether, may be flexible and let you buy a smaller unit.
If you move ahead with the purchase, be prepared to upgrade the tow vehicle before you get any real use out of the trailer. The numbers you posted have all the makings of a white knuckle trip for any distance on the interstate. The good news is that since you will have already weighed the loaded trailer, you will have accurate info to go truck shopping. I would say this is a job for a 250/2500 crew cab.
In general terms, you will add approximately 1500 lbs of "stuff" to a trailer that size, not including propane, batteries, or potable water.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.
BurbMan did a good job outlining your challenges, and steps to take. One additional step I would take is if you do get the trailer, take the whole loaded crew - truck, family, dogs - and fully loaded trailer to the nearest CAT scale. They're all over the place so there shouldn't be one too far away from you, and get accurate weights. Only then will you have the real picture.
CAT Scale locations nationwide
Did I over simplify that? I will definitely heed the advice of the recommended WD hitches. Or are you guys saying that because the hitch, propane, batteries, etc. are so far forward on the TT, it's likely to bump that hitch weight ratio number up closer to 15%? Makes sense if I think about it from a COG standpoint. Assuming 15%, Same calc as above, that leaves only 6467lbs for trailer load. I definitely see the problem I have here. Downgrading TT at this point is probably a no go with the wife. The answer will have to be looking into the brother in laws F250 in the short term and buying a very used dedicated TV in the near term...
No use putting the dog in danger but I did see a leading sports figure a year
ago pulling a TT like yours with a Ford Explorer and wait there is more ...
there were five people in the Explorer. Everything was new and he got from
Chicago to Fort Collins Colorado, I don't know if he got back but he said the
salesmen said he could do it but he appreciated my comments anyhow.
He moved ever day because the black water tank was full around evening after
all those people donated. I saw him leave with the TV Antenna up I wonder if the antenna made it.
Your Sequoia numbers 6000 curb weight and 7300 GVWR indicate 1300 lb payload.
You're WD hitch will weigh about 100 lbs, unless it is a hensley or propride, then it will be more.
The average load of "stuff" people put in their trailers, is about 1000 lbs. Bigger trailer = more stuff.
Average tongue / hitch weight is 12 - 13 percent of loaded trailer weight. Depending on how you load, it go to 15 percent. Note !!! Tongue / hitch weight is not a constant number. It fluctuates up and down during every trip. Trailer holding tanks can have a significant impact on tongue weight. Tanks installed in front of the trailer axles, add weight on the tongue. Tanks behind the axles, subtract from tongue weight.
During a camping trip, my tongue weight can be anywhere between 975 and 1200 lbs. My loaded trailer weight is around 7400.
18 Nissan Titan XD
12 Flagstaff 831FKBSS
Wife and I
Retired Navy Master Chief (retired since 1995)
stevevalwa wrote:
Or are you guys saying that because the hitch, propane, batteries, etc. are so far forward on the TT, it's likely to bump that hitch weight ratio number up closer to 15%?
Or are you guys saying that because the hitch, propane, batteries, etc. are so far forward on the TT, it's likely to bump that hitch weight ratio number up closer to 15%?
Maybe....it depends on the floorplan of the TT and where the storage is. Yes, propane and batteries add almost 1:1 on hitch weight because, well, they sit on the hitch. If you have a rear kitchen and lots of storage for stuff in the rear, weight behind the axles actually reduces hitch weight. You can manage hitch weight by how you load the trailer, but too light and you get sway. Toy haulers that have rear garages can have 2000+ hitch weights with no toys in the garage, they are designed to be balanced with a load in the rear.
Our previous trailer was a Sunnybrook that had 4 bunks in the rear. It was constructed with a huge basement under the bunk area that was the full width of the trailer and 8'long from the back bumper forward. I thought this was great and loaded it to the gills with toys, lawn furniture, BBQs, etc etc. The problem was it lightened the tongue so much on a 34' TT it would sway over 45 mph. Bought the Hensley and problem solved.
You are in 2500, or F250 range. For that TT, You IMOP will need a socalled 3/4 ton truck
Terry & Shay
Coachman Apex 288BH.
2013 F150 XLT Off Road
5.0, 3.73
Lazy Campers
RinconVTR wrote:
OP, this trailer is starting out with a very heavy hitch weight for our Sequoia.
OP, this trailer is starting out with a very heavy hitch weight for our Sequoia.
I'm definitely starting to see the problem. Assuming a max cargo (hitch) weight of 970# taking just me as a driver into account, I'd have to keep the hitch/axle dist ratio between 11.4 and 12.4 according to a quick spreadsheet (which also jives with online calculator). Given that the TT starts out at 12.1% dry, and that doesn't take into account the WD hitch, propane, battery, oh and I don't know, the massive pass-through storage this unit has right behind the hitch, I'm unlikely to improve upon this distribution ratio. It's very likely to get much worse. Never mind the fact that even if I could magically keep it between 11.4 and 12.4, all those scenarios exceed my goal of keeping trailer weight 7600# or less. It ranges from 7800-8500. The only thing I think I can do with the Sequoia at this point is tow it home dry/empty.
Thanks for everyone's help.
stevevalwa wrote:
Never mind the fact that even if I could magically keep it between 11.4 and 12.4, all those scenarios exceed my goal of keeping trailer weight 7600# or less. It ranges from 7800-8500.
Never mind the fact that even if I could magically keep it between 11.4 and 12.4, all those scenarios exceed my goal of keeping trailer weight 7600# or less. It ranges from 7800-8500.
Trying to the find ways to lower the trailer's gross tongue weight just to better accommodate your Sequoia's limited towing capability is exactly what you don't want to do - too low and you could easily be all over the road, particularly with such a long trailer and such a short wheelbase vehicle.
Rather, you should be aiming for 13% - 14% of the trailer's average gross weight, loaded & ready to camp, and if it's too much for your Sequoia, then it's too much. Bottom line - doesn't matter what you do to try to rationalize it this trailer you want to tow is 3/4 ton truck territory - anything less just won't cut it.
Only 1/2 tons (like the F-150) with MAX PAYLOAD (not to be confused with max tow) will get you clear of most payload issues when traveling with a family and large TT.
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
When you're on edge and so close to max on paper with a TT (close or not dramatically over), you really don't know exactly where you are until you hit the scale WITH THE WDH FULLY SET UP FOR YOUR LOADED TRAILER.
Below are my actual loaded scale weights, complete with exactly how much weight is transferred. It clearly shows that with the WDH NOT HOOKED UP, I am over spec. With the WDH connected, I within all specs.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/CxNXSKw.jpg)
Here's the Tundra and Sequoia specs line by line. While the Tundra gets beat up for low payload, in reality its the practically same as most all 1/2 tons (and even more than some). Again the clear exception is those with the max payload option.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/LyG3z0o.jpg)
SO. If you really do NEED a bigger truck...go big or go home.
OR. Shop for a smaller/lighter trailer.
Finally....do more research on the Hensley and Propride. Big money. Both have their quirks. I love and hate them at the same time. But they are worth every penny for absolute stable towing (even with a short wheel base SUV and LONG trailer!!!) and in the long run saves me thousands.
I would not have traveled across the country with my family if I didn't feel 100% safe doing so and had weight slips to prove I'm "legal" should anything happen.
That said, my setup is not for rookies. Nor is a 32ft TT in my opinion.
A 250/2500 series crew cab truck is in your future.
2006 Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 2WD 6.0L 3.73 8600 GVWR
2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 223RBS
1991 Palomino Filly PUP
Go easy and you'll get it home. But remember, the tail end is WAAAAY back there
If you like SUVs and don't want to spend a fortune, consider the Ford Excursion. Out of production, but a huge market for used- especially 7.3L diesels.
Also have 6.0L diesels but have to know what you're doing because of the 6.0L diesel problems- or someone who does to check it for you.
Then there are v10 gassers
Ford Excursion was the world's largest production SUV. It still holds that title.
But it doesn't have all the updated electronic spaceship style interior of the modern trucks.
Glad you asked the questions before being worried and disappointed in the towing performance of your current combination.
Good luck!
Hey...you & brother in law can do a couple of camping trips together
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/confused.gif "confused")
And an identical GCWR of 16,000 lbs? According to the Trailer Life 2008 Towing Guide, a 4WD Sequoia has a trailer rating of 6200 lbs.
I think that puts an end to any further discussion of this TV/trailer combo.
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs.
2008 Suburban 2500 3LT 3.73 4X4 "The Beast"
2013 Springdale 303BHS, 8620 lbs
2009 GMC Sierra 1500 Denali (backup TV, hot rod)
2016 Jeep JKU Sahara in Tank, 3.23 (hers)
2010 Jeep JKU Sahara in Mango Tango PC, 3.73 (his)
intheburbs wrote:
So the OP is saying his Sequoia has a trailer towing capacity higher than a Suburban 2500 of the same model year? And an identical GCWR of 16,000 lbs?
According to the Trailer Life 2008 Towing Guide, a 4WD Sequoia has a trailer rating of 6200 lbs.
I think that puts an end to any further discussion of this TV/trailer combo.
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs.
So the OP is saying his Sequoia has a trailer towing capacity higher than a Suburban 2500 of the same model year?
And an identical GCWR of 16,000 lbs? According to the Trailer Life 2008 Towing Guide, a 4WD Sequoia has a trailer rating of 6200 lbs.
I think that puts an end to any further discussion of this TV/trailer combo.
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs.
Trailer life is wrong. Toyota’s specification chart for that year show a range of weights depending on engine and trim level. The lowest rating is 7500lbs for the 4.7l 4x4 SR5. Max is 10k for the same in 4x2 with the 5.7l. Lower ratings didn’t happen until the 2011 model year when Toyota adopted the new SAE2807 standards. GCWR are from 16,960 to 17,280lbs. Odd that it doesn’t list GCWR for the upper trim levels though.
drsteve wrote:
No matter how you fudge the numbers, that combination is going to be no fun even on a good day. On a bad day--one with high winds, rain, heavy traffic, hills, etc, it will be even less fun.
.
No matter how you fudge the numbers, that combination is going to be no fun even on a good day. On a bad day--one with high winds, rain, heavy traffic, hills, etc, it will be even less fun.
.
You could not be more wrong. My set up doesn't get any more solid until it becomes a real 5th wheel.
I know this is very hard to believe for most people, but I am not exaggerating. 70 mph was my cruise speed, I had no sway or wiggle at any time and mountains were not a struggle at all. I counted 3 times I dropped to 3rd gear and held 55mph thru some of the most mountainous interstates the US has to offer.
BTW, nearly everyone is wrong about the Sequoia's tow ratings.
The Sequoia's top end tow capacity is 9100lbs prior to 2012...when it dropped to 7300lbs via SAE performance test.
GCWR was 16,500lbs and is now 13,600lbs
camp-n-family wrote:
Trailer life is wrong. Toyota’s specification chart for that year show a range of weights depending on engine and trim level. The lowest rating is 7500lbs for the 4.7l 4x4 SR5. Max is 10k for the same in 4x2 with the 5.7l. Lower ratings didn’t happen until the 2011 model year when Toyota adopted the new SAE2807 standards. GCWR are from 16,960 to 17,280lbs. Odd that it doesn’t list GCWR for the upper trim levels though.
intheburbs wrote:
So the OP is saying his Sequoia has a trailer towing capacity higher than a Suburban 2500 of the same model year? And an identical GCWR of 16,000 lbs?
According to the Trailer Life 2008 Towing Guide, a 4WD Sequoia has a trailer rating of 6200 lbs.
I think that puts an end to any further discussion of this TV/trailer combo.
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs.
So the OP is saying his Sequoia has a trailer towing capacity higher than a Suburban 2500 of the same model year?
And an identical GCWR of 16,000 lbs? According to the Trailer Life 2008 Towing Guide, a 4WD Sequoia has a trailer rating of 6200 lbs.
I think that puts an end to any further discussion of this TV/trailer combo.
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs.
Trailer life is wrong. Toyota’s specification chart for that year show a range of weights depending on engine and trim level. The lowest rating is 7500lbs for the 4.7l 4x4 SR5. Max is 10k for the same in 4x2 with the 5.7l. Lower ratings didn’t happen until the 2011 model year when Toyota adopted the new SAE2807 standards. GCWR are from 16,960 to 17,280lbs. Odd that it doesn’t list GCWR for the upper trim levels though.
Interesting find. My 2010 hard copy owners manual does not match all those capacities shown on that old brochure. Nothing over 9100lbs.
RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB
Toyota 2008 Sequia brochure
Only missing info seems to be GAWR’s
As most have advised...load up ready to go RV’ing and weigh it axle by axle
Then do the simple math....generic formula to figure : GCWR >= TV + Trailer+ stuff (actual weights)
RGAWR is needed to check if enough “R” vs what it will be asked to handle
Most half ton’s RGAWR are in the +4K range. Higher class TV’s are in the +6K range. Most weight goes on the rear axle...just take a side view most TV’’’s.....mid point between front axles is at the read edge of the drivers door
Decide if you, the OP, believes in the ratings system or not
If yes, gather the specifications and follow them
If not, then academic this thread...
If just looking for the “sure you can”....then you the OP have it, but know only one person is responsible for the setup and that is the driver....none of us advisers have any skin in your game
* This post was edited 01/17/18 10:34am by BenK *
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
stevevalwa wrote:
The only thing I think I can do with the Sequoia at this point is tow it home dry/empty.
The only thing I think I can do with the Sequoia at this point is tow it home dry/empty.
No that's not the ONLY thing you can do....get it home, pack it up, and then run it up to the closest scale. Look for a CAT Scale, or a local moving company or recycler. Heck, our town dump has 2 scales, they weight you on the way in, weigh you on the way out, and charge you by the ton....
Take 3 weights as I mentioned (still weight the Sequoia by itself so you can calculate tongue weight).
Scale weights get you out of spreadsheet land where assumptions are required and into the real world. As I said, it's not just what you bring, but where you put it in the trailer, that will affect tongue weight.
Weight added behind the TT axles lightens the tongue...you are looking at worst case by all the weight added by batteries, hitch, and propane...also consider what may be lightening the hitch. the situation may not be as bad as it seems...or it could be worse...
See where the fresh water tank is...if the tank is behind the TT axles, you will actually lighten the tongue by adding water, even though the trailer will weigh more. As I said, don't make assumptions, get the trailer and weigh it.
Once you have good numbers, then you can shop in the know for a new truck. WORST thing you can do at this point is buy a new truck before you weigh the trailer, and then wind up buying a new truck that's STILL under-rated because your assumptions were wrong.
intheburbs wrote:
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs
That's because you only have the 3.73 axle
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
camp-n-family wrote:
Trailer life is wrong. Toyota’s specification chart for that year show a range of weights depending on engine and trim level. The lowest rating is 7500lbs for the 4.7l 4x4 SR5. Max is 10k for the same in 4x2 with the 5.7l. Lower ratings didn’t happen until the 2011 model year when Toyota adopted the new SAE2807 standards. GCWR are from 16,960 to 17,280lbs. Odd that it doesn’t list GCWR for the upper trim levels though.
intheburbs wrote:
So the OP is saying his Sequoia has a trailer towing capacity higher than a Suburban 2500 of the same model year? And an identical GCWR of 16,000 lbs?
According to the Trailer Life 2008 Towing Guide, a 4WD Sequoia has a trailer rating of 6200 lbs.
I think that puts an end to any further discussion of this TV/trailer combo.
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs.
So the OP is saying his Sequoia has a trailer towing capacity higher than a Suburban 2500 of the same model year?
And an identical GCWR of 16,000 lbs? According to the Trailer Life 2008 Towing Guide, a 4WD Sequoia has a trailer rating of 6200 lbs.
I think that puts an end to any further discussion of this TV/trailer combo.
BTW, my 2500 Burb is maxed out with a trailer weighing 8600 lbs.
Trailer life is wrong. Toyota’s specification chart for that year show a range of weights depending on engine and trim level. The lowest rating is 7500lbs for the 4.7l 4x4 SR5. Max is 10k for the same in 4x2 with the 5.7l. Lower ratings didn’t happen until the 2011 model year when Toyota adopted the new SAE2807 standards. GCWR are from 16,960 to 17,280lbs. Odd that it doesn’t list GCWR for the upper trim levels though.
Ok, let's take a closer look at the sales brochure:
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/JqN5aQ8.jpg)
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight. I hope the driver and passengers are really small people.
Trailer towing rating is useless with most SUVs - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload. At least my Suburban has a payload rating of 2088 lbs and a RAWR of 5500 (though AA rates it to 10k in other applications).
intheburbs wrote:
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.
This is exactly the conclusion I reached last night with everyone's help. I'm limited by the Sequoia's payload capability. Reading through the Tundra forums, it seems generally accepted that the real ratings for the 2008-2009 Sequoia are in line with the 2010-Current years as basically nothing has changed with the frame and 5.7L engine/transmission combo in that time. Toyota clearly made a mistake in towing capacity probably based on the 400 ft/lbs of torque that engine makes coupled with the 4.30:1 axle. I'm sure it has no issue pulling the load, just not rated for the real world downward axle stress a typical 8-9k load exerts on the hitch as many have noted.
I am confident I can get it home empty/dry as it's well within the Sequoia's capability. Whether I get the nerve to load it up and travel through the nearest metro area to get to the closest CAT station 25 miles away is another story... I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.
IdaD wrote:
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
Riiiiight....wink wink
stevevalwa wrote:
.
intheburbs wrote:
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.
.
Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.
Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.
stevevalwa wrote:
I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.
I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.
Based on this comment I'm guessing you either ignored or choose to not believe what I posted earlier ...
"Trying to the find ways to lower the trailer's gross tongue weight just to better accommodate your Sequoia's limited towing capability is exactly what you don't want to do - too low and you could easily be all over the road, particularly with such a long trailer and such a short wheelbase vehicle. Rather, you should be aiming for 13% - 14% of the trailer's average gross weight, loaded & ready to camp, and if it's too much for your Sequoia, then it's too much."
Your fresh water holding tank is most likely located where most are - over the axles where it will have the least impact on gross tongue weight whether empty or full.
stevevalwa wrote:
I am confident I can get it home empty/dry as it's well within the Sequoia's capability. Whether I get the nerve to load it up and travel through the nearest metro area to get to the closest CAT station 25 miles away is another story... I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.
I am confident I can get it home empty/dry as it's well within the Sequoia's capability. Whether I get the nerve to load it up and travel through the nearest metro area to get to the closest CAT station 25 miles away is another story... I don't feel good about my prospects of the tongue weight being 950 or less by loading stuff behind the rear axle... the major storage compartment on this TT is a pass through right behind the hitch. I will definitely find out where the potable water tank is though.
Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.
Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.
Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.
RinconVTR wrote:
Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.
Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.
Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.
Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.
No, but realistically this trailer the OP intends to tow is going to weigh at least 8000 lbs with an average gross tongue weight that won't be any less than ~ 1100 lbs which is FAR too much for his Sequoia. What yours weighs has nothing to do with this.
FWIW, a friend who owned a 32' Starcraft Antigua towed with a 4.7L Sequoia BUT that trailer weighed significantly less, ~ 6200 lbs loaded & ready to camp, AND he had Can-Am in London, Ontario reinforce his hitch, AND he used a Hensley Arrow to couple the two together. It worked well on our 4 week trip west and during a panic stop that would have otherwise have had him contesting space on a railway crossing with a freight train the combination worked really well ... 'though he did have to change his underwear immediately after!
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
RinconVTR wrote:
Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.
Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.
Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.
Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.
Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.
Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.
So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia? I got the impression you would as it's very similar to what you're doing now...
RinconVTR wrote:
Riiiiight....wink wink
IdaD wrote:
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
Riiiiight....wink wink
You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.
stevevalwa wrote:
So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia? I got the impression you would as it's very similar to what you're doing now...
RinconVTR wrote:
Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.
Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.
Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.
Seriously man...you should take my posts very seriously.
Do not tow that trailer with the Sequoia.
Add to that...I REPEAT that I would NEVER tow a trailer that long without the Hensley. This is not a joke or exaggeration.
So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia? I got the impression you would as it's very similar to what you're doing now...
As I and so many have stated...those dry weights are bunk. In reality, you will be well beyond those numbers. Too far.
My answer has been NO...DO NOT TOW that trailer...from the beginning.
IdaD wrote:
You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.
RinconVTR wrote:
Riiiiight....wink wink
IdaD wrote:
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
Riiiiight....wink wink
You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.
Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.
Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.
stevevalwa wrote:
So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia?
So at 804lbs on the hitch and 6650lbs behind you, and a Hensley WDH, you wouldn't tow this with the Sequoia?
You're either ignoring all the good information that's been offered OR you just don't "get it" ... this trailer you have won't weigh just 6650 lbs nor will it be running anywhere near just 804 lbs of gross tongue weight. If you just can't accept this as fact then there's little else the rest of us can do to help you.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
I'm done ... good luck. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
RinconVTR wrote:
Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.
Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.
IdaD wrote:
You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.
RinconVTR wrote:
Riiiiight....wink wink
IdaD wrote:
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
RinconVTR wrote:
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
You'd be surprised how many 3/4 ton trucks are hitting near the same limits and many of those diesel engines rob enough payload to drop it into the 1/2 ton range of 1800lbs. FAR too many 5th wheel guys dont care about this and tow with pin weight that exceed payload and thus puts them way over GVWR.
The payload ratings on diesel 3/4 ton trucks mean literally nothing. They're heavy but class restricted to a max 10k lb GVWR. That's why most "5th wheel guys" use axle and tire ratings to determine carrying capacity for that type of truck.
Riiiiight....wink wink
You are welcome to be ignorant on the topic if you'd like but you'd be well advised to stop commenting on it until you do some research. You seem like you're bright enough to figure it out if you actually looked into it.
Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.
Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.
It's cringeworthy how wrong you are on this particular topic, but I'm dropping it to not derail OPs thread. Carry on with the Toyota talk.
RinconVTR wrote:
Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.
Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.
stevevalwa wrote:
.
intheburbs wrote:
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.
Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you're going to tow a 9100-lb trailer, when the best possible payload rating of any configuration is only 1380 lbs? Last time I checked, I'd expect a 9100-lb trailer to have about 1180 lbs of tongue weight... - the limiting factors are most often rear axle weight rating or payload.
.
Who's towing a 9100lb trailer within this thread? No one.
Mine is 6800lbs - loaded - scaled.
Do I have to count the number of responses contradicting my post regarding the Trailer Life tow rating of the Sequoia vs the sales brochure? Including you?
RinconVTR wrote:
BTW, nearly everyone is wrong about the Sequoia's tow ratings.
The Sequoia's top end tow capacity is 9100lbs prior to 2012...when it dropped to 7300lbs via SAE performance test.
GCWR was 16,500lbs and is now 13,600lbs
BTW, nearly everyone is wrong about the Sequoia's tow ratings.
The Sequoia's top end tow capacity is 9100lbs prior to 2012...when it dropped to 7300lbs via SAE performance test.
GCWR was 16,500lbs and is now 13,600lbs
RinconVTR wrote:
Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.
Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.
Oh, I am very knowledgeable on the topic of weight and capacities, I assure you. You're opinion is that trucks can handle more, as anything can handle more than a given design specification, but those ratings are solid and need to be adhered to.
Ignorance is ignoring OEM ratings and you're an absolute fool to say anything on the contrary. End of story.
So then, by your own admission, you're saying that the Sequoia can tow a 9100-lb trailer. Sure, no one on this thread might be doing it, but you (and others) are saying it can do it.
And then there are those of us who have experience towing trailers that large and heavy who are saying that it'd be a really bad idea. Short wheelbase, half-ton truck? Yeah, good luck with that.
intheburbs wrote:
So then, by your own admission, you're saying that the Sequoia can tow a 9100-lb trailer. Sure, no one on this thread might be doing it, but you (and others) are saying it can do it.
And then there are those of us who have experience towing trailers that large and heavy who are saying that it'd be a really bad idea. Short wheelbase, half-ton truck? Yeah, good luck with that.
So then, by your own admission, you're saying that the Sequoia can tow a 9100-lb trailer. Sure, no one on this thread might be doing it, but you (and others) are saying it can do it.
And then there are those of us who have experience towing trailers that large and heavy who are saying that it'd be a really bad idea. Short wheelbase, half-ton truck? Yeah, good luck with that.
What the H is wrong with you?
Spec is 9100 for most 5.7L Sequoias out there and about 2k less after 2012. That's spec!
This SUV and most half tons are maxed at GVWR out well before the towing capacity is met! So all the talk about 9k lbs???
BUT. Let's claim said 9100lb trailer had a 8-10% tongue weight, now there's no problem at all.
Finally, just because I have towed with SUV's the last number of years, doesn't mean I've never towed 5th wheels and TT's with large trucks. I've been deep into RV's my entire life along with 2 generations before me.
And only a fool would talk down to someone based on their tow vehicle choice and make assumptions about them. I made an educated choice and have zero need and desire for a pick up truck. All it would do for me is burn money.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
SoundGuy wrote:
Trying to the find ways to lower the trailer's gross tongue weight just to better accommodate your Sequoia's limited towing capability is exactly what you don't want to do - too low and you could easily be all over the road, particularly with such a long trailer and such a short wheelbase vehicle. Rather, you should be aiming for 13% - 14% of the trailer's average gross weight, loaded & ready to camp, and if it's too much for your Sequoia, then it's too much. Bottom line - doesn't matter what you do to try to rationalize it this trailer you want to tow is 3/4 ton truck territory - anything less just won't cut it.
stevevalwa wrote:
Never mind the fact that even if I could magically keep it between 11.4 and 12.4, all those scenarios exceed my goal of keeping trailer weight 7600# or less. It ranges from 7800-8500.
Never mind the fact that even if I could magically keep it between 11.4 and 12.4, all those scenarios exceed my goal of keeping trailer weight 7600# or less. It ranges from 7800-8500.
Trying to the find ways to lower the trailer's gross tongue weight just to better accommodate your Sequoia's limited towing capability is exactly what you don't want to do - too low and you could easily be all over the road, particularly with such a long trailer and such a short wheelbase vehicle.
Rather, you should be aiming for 13% - 14% of the trailer's average gross weight, loaded & ready to camp, and if it's too much for your Sequoia, then it's too much. Bottom line - doesn't matter what you do to try to rationalize it this trailer you want to tow is 3/4 ton truck territory - anything less just won't cut it.A Henlsey or ProPride hitch that uses the 4-bar linkage is indifferent to tongue weight...you can tow a TT with 1% tongue weight and it will tow as straight as an arrow.
In the absence of this type of sway control you absolutely need 13% +/- on the hitch to prevent unwanted sway.
I only bring this up because some the tongue weight on some trailers goes north of 15% with an extra battery and full propane. Loading heavy items in a rear storage area can bring it down to the 12-13% range.
Just to be clear:
1. I don't disagree that this is too much trailer for the Sequoia no matter how you slice it.
2. It's a good idea to get it weighed and see what the actual TW winds up at so OP has the REAL numbers when shopping for a new truck.
3. A Hensley or ProPride 4-bar hitch is a good idea on a trailer that long even if you pull it with a 3/4 truck.
2009 F 250 XLT SC 4x4 3.73 LS 5.4L V8
2017 Forest River Salem Cruise Lite 171 RBXL
Yes, you bought too much trailer.
Yes, you can safely tow that trailer with your Sequoia, as you said, with only you.
If you load it with 1000 lbs of stuff (that is quite a bit of stuff, yes people load more, lots of people load less) you will be at 8000lbs. That is 960lbs of TW at 12%. The WD hitch will take care of its own weight. That leaves 300 lbs for you and a huge 44 oz big gulp.
It won't be convenient, or easy, but you can do it.
An 8000lb trailer pushing a 6000 Sequoia is no worse than a 12k lb trailer pushing a 7000lb 3/4 ton. The Sequoia brakes are bigger than the last generation F250.....not that it matters BRAKING IS NOT ON THE TOW VEHICLE.
A 3/4 ton won't stop a 8000lb trailer any faster than a Sequoia. Some F250s have empty 60-0 braking distance over 200ft!!! Ram 2500 is 195ft, Chevy also over 200 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ram-2500-3500-in-depth-model-review-2017-ram-2500-3500-performance-and-driving-impressions-review-car-and-driver-page-4A
Sequoia is 127ft. "In Edmunds brake testing, the Toyota Sequoia required 127 feet to come to a stop from 60 mph, which is a short distance for SUVs in this class."
It will always be about how well the trailer brakes work, it's tires, it's loading and the brake controller. Any trailer has it's own stopping distance with it's current weight and brakes. That distance is combined with the tow vehicles stopping distance. "Well if the brakes fail"....ya ya, I'd rather be in a Sequoia with a 8000 lb trailer behind me than a 1 ton SRW with 15k behind me during a trailer brake failure.
15% tongue weight is not "better". The more tongue weight the more down force on the hitch during a hard stop, which is less weight on the front braking axle. The least tongue weight that naturally (without sway control) doesn't result in sway is best.
Panic stop at 68mph while towing? Pretty sure that wouldn't of been a panic stop at 60mph. I love the weight police that talk about towing at 70 mph. Stopping distance at 60mph is 239 ft. At 68 mph it is 298 ft. A 59 ft difference....the difference between crunching metal and stopping 59 FT short of it.
You won't be able to tow in 25 mph crosswinds....or snow storms, or through a tornado, or T Storm. So be it. Just don't corner yourself in with a time crunch. Strong winds don't normally last over 24 hours.
If you get it, enjoy your new rig, don't get tempted to load it up and go, it will tow fine with just you. Have fun with your family and take it slow. Keep an eye on a better tow vehicle or smaller trailer when you are ready.
And this goes for everyone including myself....just because you have done something for a long time, doesn't mean you are any good at it. I don't see many taxi drivers racing Nascar.
* This post was last edited 01/27/18 04:57pm by bluepost *
bluepost wrote:
Lots of drama on this forum.
Yes, you bought too much trailer.
Yes, you can safely tow that trailer with your Sequoia, as you said, with only you.
If you load it with 1000 lbs of stuff (that is quite a bit of stuff, yes people load more, lots of people load less) you will be at 8000lbs. That is 960lbs of TW at 12%. The WD hitch will take care of its own weight. That leaves 300 lbs for you and a huge 44 oz big gulp.
It won't be convenient, or easy, but you can do it.
An 8000lb trailer pushing a 6000 Sequoia is no worse than a 12k lb trailer pushing a 7000lb 3/4 ton. The Sequoia brakes are bigger than the last generation F250.....not that it matters BRAKING IS NOT ON THE TOW VEHICLE.
A 3/4 ton won't stop a 8000lb trailer any faster than a Sequoia. Some F250s have empty 60-0 braking distance over 200ft!!! Ram 2500 is 195ft, Chevy also over 200 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ram-2500-3500-in-depth-model-review-2017-ram-2500-3500-performance-and-driving-impressions-review-car-and-driver-page-4A
Sequoia is 127ft. "In Edmunds brake testing, the Toyota Sequoia required 127 feet to come to a stop from 60 mph, which is a short distance for SUVs in this class."
It will always be about how well the trailer brakes work, it's tires, it's loading and the brake controller. Any trailer has it's own stopping distance with it's current weight and brakes. That distance is combined with the tow vehicles stopping distance. "Well if the brakes fail"....ya ya, I'd rather be in a Sequoia with a 8000 lb trailer behind me than a 1 ton SRW with 15k behind me during a trailer brake failure.
15% tongue weight is not "better". The more tongue weight the more down force on the hitch during a hard stop, which is less weight on the front braking axle. The least tongue weight that naturally (without sway control) doesn't result in sway is best.
Panic stop at 68mph while towing? Pretty sure that wouldn't of been a panic stop at 60mph. I love the weight police that talk about towing at 70 mph. Stopping distance at 60mph is 239 ft. At 68 mph it is 298 ft. A 59 ft difference....the difference between crunching metal and stopping 59 FT short of it.
Enjoy your new rig, don't get tempted to load it up and go, it will tow fine with just you. Have fun with your family and take it slow.
And this goes for everyone including myself....just because you have done something for a long time, doesn't mean you are any good at it. I don't see many taxi drivers racing Nascar.
Lots of drama on this forum.
Yes, you bought too much trailer.
Yes, you can safely tow that trailer with your Sequoia, as you said, with only you.
If you load it with 1000 lbs of stuff (that is quite a bit of stuff, yes people load more, lots of people load less) you will be at 8000lbs. That is 960lbs of TW at 12%. The WD hitch will take care of its own weight. That leaves 300 lbs for you and a huge 44 oz big gulp.
It won't be convenient, or easy, but you can do it.
An 8000lb trailer pushing a 6000 Sequoia is no worse than a 12k lb trailer pushing a 7000lb 3/4 ton. The Sequoia brakes are bigger than the last generation F250.....not that it matters BRAKING IS NOT ON THE TOW VEHICLE.
A 3/4 ton won't stop a 8000lb trailer any faster than a Sequoia. Some F250s have empty 60-0 braking distance over 200ft!!! Ram 2500 is 195ft, Chevy also over 200 ft.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-ram-2500-3500-in-depth-model-review-2017-ram-2500-3500-performance-and-driving-impressions-review-car-and-driver-page-4A
Sequoia is 127ft. "In Edmunds brake testing, the Toyota Sequoia required 127 feet to come to a stop from 60 mph, which is a short distance for SUVs in this class."
It will always be about how well the trailer brakes work, it's tires, it's loading and the brake controller. Any trailer has it's own stopping distance with it's current weight and brakes. That distance is combined with the tow vehicles stopping distance. "Well if the brakes fail"....ya ya, I'd rather be in a Sequoia with a 8000 lb trailer behind me than a 1 ton SRW with 15k behind me during a trailer brake failure.
15% tongue weight is not "better". The more tongue weight the more down force on the hitch during a hard stop, which is less weight on the front braking axle. The least tongue weight that naturally (without sway control) doesn't result in sway is best.
Panic stop at 68mph while towing? Pretty sure that wouldn't of been a panic stop at 60mph. I love the weight police that talk about towing at 70 mph. Stopping distance at 60mph is 239 ft. At 68 mph it is 298 ft. A 59 ft difference....the difference between crunching metal and stopping 59 FT short of it.
Enjoy your new rig, don't get tempted to load it up and go, it will tow fine with just you. Have fun with your family and take it slow.
And this goes for everyone including myself....just because you have done something for a long time, doesn't mean you are any good at it. I don't see many taxi drivers racing Nascar.
This is one of the best posts I've ever read. Great job, Bluepost.
travelnman wrote:
If I were you the biggest surprise may come when your approaching a steep downgrade. Those with the runaway ramps with DMV warnings all over the place for tuckers to check their exhaust brakes and other equipment. A small tow vehicle will be burning brakes on the way down with all that weight behind it plus your load inside the vehicle. It may be best to stay with the corn fields until you get something more heavy duty to tow with, watch elevations on maps, and know the road ahead. I have seen semi's burning brakes smoking up the highway your Toyota will probably do the same as the brakes get hot they become less affective all you can do is hope the bottom is coming up soon or consider those runaway ramps if you get into trouble. They will still ask "are we there yet". I saw a guy pulling your load with a Ford Explorer the sales people said would work, it looked like a accident about to happen going down the road. He made it from Chicago to Colorado like that, I told him not to make the return trip with all those people on board and then he would still be a road hazard. I saw him leaving the park with his TV antenna up.
If I were you the biggest surprise may come when your approaching a steep downgrade. Those with the runaway ramps with DMV warnings all over the place for tuckers to check their exhaust brakes and other equipment. A small tow vehicle will be burning brakes on the way down with all that weight behind it plus your load inside the vehicle. It may be best to stay with the corn fields until you get something more heavy duty to tow with, watch elevations on maps, and know the road ahead. I have seen semi's burning brakes smoking up the highway your Toyota will probably do the same as the brakes get hot they become less affective all you can do is hope the bottom is coming up soon or consider those runaway ramps if you get into trouble. They will still ask "are we there yet". I saw a guy pulling your load with a Ford Explorer the sales people said would work, it looked like a accident about to happen going down the road. He made it from Chicago to Colorado like that, I told him not to make the return trip with all those people on board and then he would still be a road hazard. I saw him leaving the park with his TV antenna up.
Haven't you ever heard of downshifting for engine braking? In L1 my transmission limits speed to 35 mph with the engine at 4k rpm. Same with an exhaust brake...semis don't burn brakes anymore, they use engine braking with the exhaust brake...the runaway ramps are there for mechanical failures.
travelnman wrote:
If I were you the biggest surprise may come when your approaching a steep downgrade. Those with the runaway ramps with DMV warnings all over the place for tuckers to check their exhaust brakes and other equipment. A small tow vehicle will be burning brakes on the way down with all that weight behind it plus your load inside the vehicle. It may be best to stay with the corn fields until you get something more heavy duty to tow with, watch elevations on maps, and know the road ahead. I have seen semi's burning brakes smoking up the highway your Toyota will probably do the same as the brakes get hot they become less affective all you can do is hope the bottom is coming up soon or consider those runaway ramps if you get into trouble. They will still ask "are we there yet". I saw a guy pulling your load with a Ford Explorer the sales people said would work, it looked like a accident about to happen going down the road. He made it from Chicago to Colorado like that, I told him not to make the return trip with all those people on board and then he would still be a road hazard. I saw him leaving the park with his TV antenna up.
If I were you the biggest surprise may come when your approaching a steep downgrade. Those with the runaway ramps with DMV warnings all over the place for tuckers to check their exhaust brakes and other equipment. A small tow vehicle will be burning brakes on the way down with all that weight behind it plus your load inside the vehicle. It may be best to stay with the corn fields until you get something more heavy duty to tow with, watch elevations on maps, and know the road ahead. I have seen semi's burning brakes smoking up the highway your Toyota will probably do the same as the brakes get hot they become less affective all you can do is hope the bottom is coming up soon or consider those runaway ramps if you get into trouble. They will still ask "are we there yet". I saw a guy pulling your load with a Ford Explorer the sales people said would work, it looked like a accident about to happen going down the road. He made it from Chicago to Colorado like that, I told him not to make the return trip with all those people on board and then he would still be a road hazard. I saw him leaving the park with his TV antenna up.
I never have to ride my brakes, and rarely do I need to even drop to 2nd. At 55 mph there is enough wind drag that I only downshift for cautions sake. And again, the Sequoia brakes are dual caliper with a diameter larger than the last generation F250, yet the Sequoia weighs 1000lbs less.
Again, the 3/4 ton trucks are the ones that are under braked, taking 200 ft to stop from 60mph. The Sequoia takes less than 130ft. But yes, an exhaust brake is an excellent device.
bluepost wrote:
Again, the 3/4 ton trucks are the ones that are under braked, taking 200 ft to stop from 60mph. The Sequoia takes less than 130ft. But yes, an exhaust brake is an excellent device.
Again, the 3/4 ton trucks are the ones that are under braked, taking 200 ft to stop from 60mph. The Sequoia takes less than 130ft. But yes, an exhaust brake is an excellent device.
Some of that lackluster performance is because a pickup truck has little weight in the rear.
The trailer brakes are not helping if you are not braking or using the override switch
The loaded scaled combined weight of my combo is 12,480lb, with 5180 on the trailer and 7300 on TV.
I can traverse I-70 from Denver to Eisenhower Tunnel and descend to points west, and do the reverse on my return trip, at the speed limit on both the uphills and the downhills, the latter without touching the brakes (traffic allowing). I'm impressed with the engine-braking ability of the Sequoia.
OP, if you have Sequoia towing questions, feel free to ask. I'm quite pleased with the rig and my Equalizer hitch.
Ord
2005 F350 SRW V10 4.10 CC LB 4x4; BW Turnover ball; LineX
2011 Sequoia 5.7L 4.30; Tundra Towing Mirrors; LT 275/65R18 C Goodyear Wrangler MT/Rs on 2nd set of wheels
2005 Nash 22H TT
drsteve wrote:
Some of that lackluster performance is because a pickup truck has little weight in the rear.
bluepost wrote:
Again, the 3/4 ton trucks are the ones that are under braked, taking 200 ft to stop from 60mph. The Sequoia takes less than 130ft. But yes, an exhaust brake is an excellent device.
Again, the 3/4 ton trucks are the ones that are under braked, taking 200 ft to stop from 60mph. The Sequoia takes less than 130ft. But yes, an exhaust brake is an excellent device.
Some of that lackluster performance is because a pickup truck has little weight in the rear.
So do 1/2 tons and they stop in about 130 ft.
3/4 ton brakes are about 13.9-14.2 diameter and have GCWR of 19k-28k lbs.
F150 has 13.8 diameter front brakes and has GCWR of 14-17k.
The Sequoia has 13.9 diameter brakes and a GCWR of less than 14k lbs.
3/4 tons have the same or .2 inches of additional brake diameter, albeit more on the rears for additional 5k-14k lbs of combined weight rating.
Again, stopping 15k-28k lbs with the about the same sized brakes as a Sequoia doing it with 13,500.
3/4 ton and full ton trucks are definitively better tow vehicles, but brakes aren't the reason.
Diesel engine braking can't be beat.......but I would be curious how the engine braking is with a 6 cylinder F150 ecoboost towing 10k lbs
Also lost is that the larger dia wheels weigh more than smaller dia wheels. Ditto tires. Therefore centrifugal (fly wheel) loading hits smaller dia brakes
Yes, larger dia brake disc has potentially higher braking power
Key is both ability to skid the brakes...or with ABS...initiate ABS during the braking session...*and*...the ability to modulate the brakes within the ABS limits (not to allow the ABS to kick in)
NONE of my vehicles have OEM level friction material. Nor do they have OEM tune. They are all performance level and my super tune. Plus other modifications that increases both braking power and ability to modulate the braking sesion
Other components are: the tires, wheels, shocks, and suspension that all play together during any braking session
Mine begets ABS almost any time and also allows modulation to NOT get into an ABS session. To that point...out braked a 5 series BMW and he rear ended my Suburban
Below is an image found years ago and is of what am talking about. First FMVSS has MAXIMUM stopping distances for cars, buses, semi's, etc
Bendix marketing showing how just changing friction material can reduce stopping distance and is of what am talking about
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/NZsYHWU.jpg )
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/m3zZPvb.png)
Click For Full-Size Image.