Any opinions on buying a used TT from a dealer? From a private owner?
Thanks for any help.
If you feel comfortable in those areas, then I would definitely suggest used for starting out. Look for water intrusion, possible delamination as well as visable signs in cabinets and the "feel" of the floor. The condition of the flooring in the main walkway and at the entrance give an idea of the amount of use it recieved. Check the age of the tires as well as tread, over 4 years old, replace.
There are a lot of video's on you tube that outline these things, watch a few and it will come together.
If you arent comfortable with maintenance and repair, you may want to reconsider, because things do break, and as Mr Murphy said what can go wrong, will go wrong, at the worst possible time.
But for those days it doesnt,,,,,, they make the rest worth it.
The biggest thing is make sure there is no water damage. If you don't know what to look for...once you have a unit you think is good (do your best), make an offer contingent upon an inspection, then pay for a mobile RV tech to come out and look it over. Might cost you $100-150 but if it steers you away from a boondoggle, it's money well spent.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
I've never been burned buying used but I can fix issues myself. Look inward, if you have no mechanical ability, no tools or no place to work on a trailer then maybe a new unit with a warranty is the best way to go. The trailers I bought were not trouble free and if I had to pay $100+ per hour to have them fixed then things would look different.
Good luck and have fun looking. Spent a week in Alexandria last summer and really enjoyed myself.
Have the owner demonstrate the major appliances. Refrigerators are one of the expensive things to replace. Nearly everything else can be fixed if the coach is clean and not beat up. Ask about the age of tires, repacking axles, etc. See how much maintenance has been done on the rig.
Buy the best quality you can find. Negoitiate with cash.
I agree with the comments above about water damage being the biggest thing to look out for.
Edit - budget in replacement mattresses. There are great foam options on Amazon for reasonable prices.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB
The most important thing we did was rent a similar sized TT first. 10 day in the Ozarks from IN and we learned a lot about towing, parking, floor plan and RVing in general.
The biggest lesson was, although my F-150 had the cargo capacity for the tongue weight of a loaded 25 ft. TT; the 200 hp. motor which hauled our pop-up all over the country could not cut it. We upgraded to a 356 hp. E-boost F-150.
As mentioned, new or used it is best to be handy with service work. I believe there is more service work on an RV then most beginners realize. This of course assumes a fair amount of use.
Finally, check the cargo capacity of your Tow vehicle. Family, camp gear and toys eat a lot of it up; before you add the tongue weight of a loaded TT. It is often twice the advertised dry tongue weight.
Good luck and remember it is not a race.
Twenty six foot 2010 Dutchmen Lite pulled with a 2011 EcoBoost F-150 4x4.
Just right for Grandpa, Grandma and the dog.
2016 6.7 CTD 2500 BIG HORN MEGA CAB
2013 Forest River 3001W Windjammer
Equilizer Hitch
Honda EU2000
"I have this plan to live forever; so far my plan is working"
Absolutely make sure there are no leaks or soft spots. Everything else (even the expensive fridge) can be easily fixed... a rotten floor, not so much.
As in your choice of life-long partner, it's just as important to know what you DON'T like or DON'T want in an individual, as it is to know what you DO want. Same is true with an RV. Knowing what you DON'T want is equally as important. With no prior experience, you should just spend time looking at various campers with an absolute firm commitment of not purchasing anything. Make it a goal that you look at 50 different RV before allowing any salesman or individual begin to pressure you into buying. It will not take long (really) to realize what will work for you and what will not. You'll see some units with good qualities and others that are just ... "OMG what were they thinking!"
If you find one that tickles-your-fancy, notate it, and come back later after you've experienced the committed list of 50. At least that way, you have something to truly compare.
Some campers will speak to you immediately. Others will yell in terror! Once you identify something that speaks those wonderful words ... "Ah Ha!" then go back an look at it REAL close for things like water damage, wear and tear, faulty appliances, failing roof, bad tires, stuff like that.
I suggest a dealership because that is where you'll have the most concentration of RVs in one spot to just window shop with with minimum running around and frustration of bumping into pure junk and wasting your time running from one to the other. That does't mean if find one that suits you to jump at it right away. Playing a bit of cat-and-mouse with the previous owner is a good thing.
The first question you should ask them is, "how long have you had this camper 'for sale' for? If a long time, you know there's no rush on a decision. If they say, "2 hours" ... you might have to move a bit quicker.
Once you get a feel for the good, the bad, and the ugly, you'll have some ammunition to really begin research into that specific model.
Good luck with your search. These are my suggestion on getting started. And yes ... it does take patients and time ... but the end is REALLY worth it!
I bought new, and probably will never do so again. The warranty headaches are a PITA, should anything need repair (and almost a guarantee there will be needed repairs).
That said, not sure I would buy used from a dealer, as they probably have no clue about the history of the trailer, and for the sake of a sale, might make shoddy repairs just to hide damage, or don't disclose problems, etc. Not saying don't do, just not sure it would be for me.
Think I would buy from a private seller. One that doesn't seem to have anything to hide and doesn't mind you poking around (their body language/words may speak volumes if they are hiding something) such as removing panels and things to see beyond.
I routinely remove panels and things to look inside for water damage or other problems on my own trailer, so as to head off a big problem down the road. Actually discovered a leak behind some false cabinet panels and I was able to fix it before any serious damage occurred. Had a p trap come loose and fall off the drain on an old trailer I had; flooded things badly and resulted in a soft floor pretty quickly. (only reason I knew I had a leak was the water pouring out the bottom of the trailer-not sure how many showers I took before I discovered it)
Part of the reason why I now poke around routinely looking for things like that.
Any way you go it's a gamble. But lots of good advice here from others so hopefully you'll have all the bases covered.
2006 Silverado 1500HD Crew Cab 2WD 6.0L 3.73 8600 GVWR
2018 Coachmen Catalina Legacy Edition 223RBS
1991 Palomino Filly PUP
Jim & Nicky
2012 Forest River XLR MBV 29
2010 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel
Motorcycles!
First, I'm looking for something in the 22-24 foot range, & under 3500 lbs dry weight. My SUV is rated for 5000 lbs. I expect I will be the sole occupant most, if not all, of the time. Other than clothes and food I don't expect to be carrying anything really heavy in the TT. I've been considering this for quite some time and have a pretty good idea of what features I consider "essential."
I consider myself pretty experienced in non-mechanical maintenance and repairs and somewhat limited on the mechanical side when it comes to actual repairs.
Where is the best place to get an idea of any particular TT's current used market value?
hjcihak46 wrote:
Thanks everyone for your quick replies and assurances. I suppose it might help if I provided a few more details.
First, I'm looking for something in the 22-24 foot range, & under 3500 lbs dry weight. My SUV is rated for 5000 lbs. I expect I will be the sole occupant most, if not all, of the time. Other than clothes and food I don't expect to be carrying anything really heavy in the TT. I've been considering this for quite some time and have a pretty good idea of what features I consider "essential."
I consider myself pretty experienced in non-mechanical maintenance and repairs and somewhat limited on the mechanical side when it comes to actual repairs.
Where is the best place to get an idea of any particular TT's current used market value?
Thanks everyone for your quick replies and assurances. I suppose it might help if I provided a few more details.
First, I'm looking for something in the 22-24 foot range, & under 3500 lbs dry weight. My SUV is rated for 5000 lbs. I expect I will be the sole occupant most, if not all, of the time. Other than clothes and food I don't expect to be carrying anything really heavy in the TT. I've been considering this for quite some time and have a pretty good idea of what features I consider "essential."
I consider myself pretty experienced in non-mechanical maintenance and repairs and somewhat limited on the mechanical side when it comes to actual repairs.
Where is the best place to get an idea of any particular TT's current used market value?
NOW you have a problem.
22-24ft and 3,500 lbs dry is going to be a stretch.
I had a 1981 20 ft TT which EMPTY (dry) was 4,100 lbs, hitch weight was 550 lbs. Loaded we were around 5,500 lbs and hitch weight of about 800 lbs. This trailer had a GVWR or 7,000 lbs.
My current 1984 26ft TT is 5,500 lbs empty with a empty hitch weight of 650 lbs. Loaded we are around 6,800 lbs with hitch weight of 875 lbs. This trailer has a GVWR of 7,500 lbs.
First, instead of concentrating on the supposed "tow rating" of 5,000 lbs you NEED to figure out what CARGO WEIGHT you have left of the TOW VEHICLE.
The tongue becomes CARGO of the tow vehicle and you typically will run out of available cargo before ever hitting the "tow rating".
You will also need to figure in the Weight Distribution hitch weight into your cargo as it will be dead weight and will reduce the amount of available cargo for the vehicle.
Newer vehicles (2011 and up should have a yellow cargo weight sticker on your drivers side door or on the drivers side door post.
That sticker will list the max amount available cargo (fuel and driver is already figured in with this sticker).
If no yellow sticker, you need the curb weight of the vehicle and the GVWR of the vehicle.
Subtract curb weight from GVWR and the result is the cargo weight.
Now, you need to subtract full tank of fuel, driver, passenger and anything else you put into the vehicle to get the available cargo weight which is left for the hitch.
Because of your limitations of your tow vehicle, you most likely will have to look for "Lite" trailers and most likely a bit smaller than 22ft..
If vehicle is not not equipped with a electric trailer brake controller, you WILL need to buy one.
hjcihak46 wrote:
My tow vehicle is a 2008 Nissan Xterra 4WD. It has a 6cyl. 4 liter engine. That model comes with a standard towing package and the owners manual does not recommend any additional improvements.
My tow vehicle is a 2008 Nissan Xterra 4WD. It has a 6cyl. 4 liter engine. That model comes with a standard towing package and the owners manual does not recommend any additional improvements.
Not enough information.
See my post above.
You NEED the AVAILABLE CARGO RATING of your vehicle instead of the "tow rating".
Tow ratings are notoriously OVER RATED by the manufacturers..
The 5,000 lb tow rating you sate means that vehicle MUST have AT LEAST 500 lbs of cargo available.
The problem is that is 10% tongue weight and that IS the bottom most percentage that you will EVER want to tow with.
The recommended tongue weight should be 10%-15% but 12%-15% is MUCH BETTER FOR TOWING STABILITY.
So, for 12% to 15% tongue weight for 5,000 lbs WILL require 600 lbs- 750 lbs of AVAILABLE CARGO for your tow vehicle.
If you don't have at least 600 lbs of available cargo then you may as well forget anything that may come close to 5,000 lbs loaded.
Many of the trailers in the length you seek WILL be considerably heavier than 3,500 lbs..
Heck, even the average popup is going to be above 3,500 lbs EMPTY.
Do you see the problem?
The second was from a private party I knew more about trailers by then and knew what you look for.
Both purchases were very good deals.
Jesseannie
Jay D.
You may very well have to upgrade your tow vehicle, to have that large area of caution.
There are some beautiful, lightly used private sector trailers. If I'm buying new, I buy at the lot, used = person to person as much as possible.
I don't want to have to deal with "RV Lot Surprise" when dealing with the RV industry. Shabbily dressed "used car lot vibe" and absolute no ethics!
There is a lot of sense buying used, if you're new to the lifestyle. If you're sure you want to buy new, make sure that it's a quality building and manufacturer.
Some of the lightweight towables are Lances (spendy but well worth it) Minnie Winnie, Nash (Arctic Fox) & other Northwoods Mfg, Coachman, Grand Design, Airstream (literally no storage)
There are not many well made RV's on the market today and yesterday. Heck, some of the rv's today are re-treads from 1998
Here is a video made at Lance, it demonstrates the quality and the build standards, and the materials used (or NOT used in other RV's and trailers for the most part)
Lance Factory Tour
Winnie Minnie
1706FB
Another small Lance - this is the maximum I'd feel sale towing with your rig. Probably would be safer, one step down.
A Lance 1685
A lot can be said for YouTube. Go there and start looking at big class A's (you'll see many of the appliances are the exact same as a Coachman TT.) It's what you can't really see that matters. Just start on YouTube and looking at all different kinds of trailers, and paying attention to what they're telling you. It's important to have a good understanding of RV terms.
I've caught YouTube "dealership videos" lying on their videos about various stuff, from holding tank sizes to tow weight abilities to materials used. Even on videos factory tours, while the thing is being built, they're lying LOL
2014 F-250
2014 Minnie Winnie 2351DKS (Traded In-Burnout-Use A Surge Protector!)
2015 Arctic Fox 22G (Great Trailer But Heavy - Traded In)
2018 Lance 1685 w/ Solar & 4 Seasons Package
1999 Beneteau 461 Oceanis Yacht
En Norski i en Fransk båt - Dette må jeg se!
* This post was edited 01/14/18 02:51am by an administrator/moderator *
That being said, there are plenty of shorter trailers out there right around 3500# gross. We're looking to trade up from a Starcraft 17' that we've had for 6 years and never gave us any problems. We towed if all over the east coast with a 6 cylinder SUV with no problems. Had a little more payload than the Xterra but otherwise very similar.
Don't get discouraged, you don't need a condo on wheels, so you should be able to find something.
When looking used, consider a private sale, but talk to the seller to get a feel for what kind if maintenance they've done. All tt's require preventive maintenance and, if not done, could lead to leaks, bearing failures, etc. if no pm was done, unless it's close to brand new, I'd walk away.
The main weights that are important are payload for the TV, gross vehicle weights for TV and camper, and tongue weight. Dry weight of a camper is basically worthless as it is never anywhere near a real world weight.
Consult the Google if you need a better understanding of these.
Nothing wrong with buying used.
Ask away and sift through the answers. Pretty soon you’ll figure out what’s what.
Kip
2015 Skyline Dart 214RB
2018 Silverado Double Cab 4x4
Andersen Hitch
hjcihak46 wrote:
Actually, I have another question. Slide-outs? A potential maintenance problem?
Actually, I have another question. Slide-outs? A potential maintenance problem?
Yes, there is some potential maintenance but they increase the interior space so much, they are well worth it.
Go drive thru a local RV park and look at units less than 20yrs old and 99.9% will have slides.
Of course, you still have to be able to tow it.
Clicky
Googling it, I came up with 1053 lbs - yours may be different depending on options. Look at the gross weight of the TT you are considering, or add 1K to the unloaded weight, then multiply by 13% to get a good estimation of tongue weight. Subtract from payload.
Subtract weight of hith and WDH - usually 100 lbs. Then subtract your weight and weight of stuff in the TV.
A high walled TT will create wind resistance which will need to be over come by your TV. Towing capacity is really a mythical number when it comes to towing an RV.
Don't be to down on slide outs. Go into TT's with and without them and see the difference. Lots of more living room with a slide out. And yes, there are always people who report problems with them, but you can find problems with any system associated with RV's.
A popup camper made by a company called Trailmanor may be suitable for your tow vehicle - just google the name.
Good luck with your search.
* This post was edited 01/14/18 02:53am by an administrator/moderator *
hjcihak46 wrote:
I'm really not interested in a pop-up camper. I'm a serious landscape photographer who's partial to wilderness areas of the mountains and deserts of the American West. I also anticipate doing some traveling in colder weather. I just can't see myself ever being happy making do with a semi-tent on wheels.
Trailmanor is not a popup tent camper. It's a hard sided hi-lo camper. It's a good alternative for your TV. I'm really not interested in a pop-up camper. I'm a serious landscape photographer who's partial to wilderness areas of the mountains and deserts of the American West. I also anticipate doing some traveling in colder weather. I just can't see myself ever being happy making do with a semi-tent on wheels.
![[image]](http://www.rvbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ATT00530.jpg)
Experience without good judgment is worthless; good judgment without experience is still good judgment!
2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn CTD
2018 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS
hjcihak46 wrote:
I'm a serious landscape photographer who's partial to wilderness areas of the mountains and deserts of the American West. I also anticipate doing some traveling in colder weather.
I'm a serious landscape photographer who's partial to wilderness areas of the mountains and deserts of the American West. I also anticipate doing some traveling in colder weather.
If you are going to spend a lot of time in the mountains, don't cheap out on the tow vehicle.
If it was a 50 mile drive on flat ground a few times a year, a marginal tow vehicle might get you what you need.
If you will regularly be pulling grades at high altitude, the little SUV will struggle if you push it to the limits. There are multiple aspects to this:
- Simply the HP to pull up a steep grade.
- You lose HP at altitude (usually assumed to be around 4% per thousand feet up), so you need some reserve power unless you have a turbo engine which compensates for altitude.
- You need to be able to stop the rig coming down the hill.
On the other hand, if you are considering replacing your Nissan for a more capable tow vehicle look at all trailers. Find the one that works for you and then match it to an appropriate tow vehicle.
Also keep in mind that a small, lifted low profile trailer is easier to get into those hard to get to, out of the way wilderness locations. Plus you will have remaining payload for extra water, equipment, generator, fuel, etc. You have a 4WD Nissan so a small teardrop will get you where you want to go. I know I keep pushing Casita's but those things are bullet proof relatively speaking.
Don't give up. Your trailer is out there but it may take some time to find that ideal match for both your needs and vehicle.
2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens, PullRite SuperGlide 2700 15K
2013 KZ Durango 2857
We limited our trailer options to our tow vehicle, discovered we didn't limit them enough and ended up with a new tow vehicle and then sold the trailer and bought the one we really wanted in the first place! You can avoid all of that by considering both parts of the equation the first time.
* This post was edited 01/14/18 02:54am by an administrator/moderator *
1. The TT will never be as nice as they look in the photos in the ad.
2. You have to be willing to walk away even if you've driven 1400 miles to see it, yes, we've done that.
3. Take a ladder with you to look at the roof, take old clothes and a creeper to look under it.
4. Plug it in and try all the applicances, lights, pump, etc. Then try it with battery only.
5. Back your TV up to the hitch, plug into the TT umbilical cord and try the lights and brakes (The cords from the truck and trailer usually are grounded). You can hear the brake magnets buzzing if they are working. Or pull the emergency brake pin.
6. Wander around looking at every wall, roof and floor looking for water damage. Push on the walls, floor and roof looking for soft areas. Open all the cabinet doors.
I can go on and on, but you need to take the time to look it over and over and over.
I did get bit on an '85 Wilderness that looked pristine, but under the carpet in the bathroom (carpet in the bathroom??) there had been a real slow leak and had rotted out the whole floor mostly under the sink and tub, couldn't get under those. So I ended up rebuilding the floor. However, I love to repair TT's so I didn't mind. Every used TT has taken a lot of maintenance and several small repairs which, again, I love doing. I can never wait to get it home and start working on it.
Oh yeah, the 1400 mile trip was because we had been looking for a certain floor plan of the Trail Lite and Trail Cruiser brand. We have a weak motor in our '94 Suburban and since we had a 30' Trail Lite once and knew they were actually "Lite", we had to look for months to find one. We live in Blaine WA, (north of Seattle, up against the Canadian border) and found that there were two listed for sale near Spokane and one near Coeur d' Alene Idaho. So we packed up everything we would need to provision the TT we would buy into the Suburban (it carried everything that was in our TT). Drove about 700 miles to Spokane and found that both of the them were complete junk, unvelievealbly bad. Drove 700 miles back, decided to hook up existing Tahoe and go camping for the rest of our vacation. While at Grandy Creek 1000 trails near Concrete. We, found an '05 Trail Cruiser with our floor plan about 25 miles away from the campground in Mt. Vernon, about 40 miles from our home. Bought it, then had to deal with two trailers. Sold the Tahoe for what we paid for it within 2 weeks, because we keep our TT's really clean.
1994 GMC Suburban K1500
2005 Trail Cruiser TC26QBC
1965 CHEVY VAN, 292 "Big Block 6" (will still tow)
2008 HHR
L(Larry)V(Vicki)J(Jennifer)J(Jesse)J(Jason)
While it states 5,000 lbs, it also states MAX OF 500 lbs hitch weight which gives me pause. That 500 lbs hitch weight can easily be reached at 3,400 lbs of trailer weight at 15% hitch weight without WD..
Additionally in extremely small print it does state that the 5,000 lbs is for a BASE MODEL of your vehicle.
What that means typically is 2WD, no options (other than the towing option) and absolute bottom, lowest trim package.
Adding 4WD, higher trim levels and any other options WILL reduce the max towing capacity.
So, depending on the exact configuration of your vehicle you might find yourself considerably lower towing capacity.
Something else which is often overlooked is trailer manufacturers tend to rate the dry weight A LOT LOWER than they actually weigh.
Often weights of battery, propane tanks (and propane) along with other optional items in the trailer ARE NOT INCLUDED in the published dry weights.. Battery and propane can add an extra 150 lbs easily to the hitch dry weight..
I will really suggest you consider a smaller than 22 ft trailer and you WILL need to be looking at the LITEWEIGHT MODELS.
* This post was edited 01/14/18 02:55am by an administrator/moderator *
I've been using my own customized version of this Towing Capacity Worksheet (in .xls format) for years now to accurately determine just what the various vehicles I've owned over the years can safely tow within their rated limits. This worksheet does exactly the same thing one can do manually with a calculator and the results are the same either way.
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/TQUaIg3l.png)
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/iwJObaDl.png)
Shocking as it may seem this clearly shows that my 1/2 ton Silverado which has a real world payload capacity (as equipped) of 1400 lbs uses pretty well all of that capacity to tow a trailer weighing less than 5000 lbs.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek")
Shocking, I know, but yes this is sadly correct - payload capacity is and always will be the mitigating factor when determining just what any given vehicle can safely tow within it's rated limits. Back on Page 2 the OP said - "My tow vehicle is a 2008 Nissan Xterra 4WD. It has a 6cyl. 4 liter engine", in which case the situation will be even worse if for no other reason than lack of sufficient payload capacity. ![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/frown.gif "frown")
It's easy for keyboard pundits to claim otherwise but the numbers don't lie - if as you said earlier "First, I'm looking for something in the 22-24 foot range, & under 3500 lbs dry weight" I can absolutely guarantee you'll be sorely disappointed with the results, particularly if what you find in the used market also has a slide which will only add even more weight and worsen the situation even further.Good luck with whatever you do choose.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
* This post was edited 01/14/18 02:57am by an administrator/moderator *
Not many folks would go to this extreme effort to determine what they can tow.
I suspect after looking at the towing guide for the OPs vehicle that they MAY have enough cargo capacity for 5K loaded trailer PROVIDED they do not exceed 500 lb (IE 10%) hitch weight..
I do not recommend this since it really has the potential for an unstable tow putting the OP, their vehicle, their trailer AND other motorists at risk.
Granted, they did say 3,500 lbs empty, the problem I see with that is published dry weights are often LOW and don't include battery or propane and as I mentioned they can easily reach 500 lbs of tongue weight at 3,400 lbs at 15% tongue weight..
In effect putting them way over the max tongue weight for the vehicle once they start loading personal gear, water, and food into the trailer.
It IS entirely possible that the limiting factor might actually be the OEM hitch and hence the reason the towing guide specifically states a max of 500 lbs tongue weight.
We will never know, sadly since the OP does not wish to disclose any of the vehicles numbers like GVWR, Curb weight and or the cargo weight from the yellow sticker..
I wish the OP all the good luck they can get..
* This post was edited 01/13/18 03:20pm by 6door74 *
2006 E350 V10
Travel Trailer-TBD
I'll keep informed those of you who may be interested in my progress. Thanks for your suggestions and comments thus far.
There are usually other brands of scales at other truck stops like TA and Loves, in addition to grain elevators, landscape supply companies, and possibly others such as the recycling center you mentioned.
Barney
2004 Sunnybrook Titan 30FKS TT
Hensley "Arrow" 1400# hitch (Sold)
Not towing now.
Former tow vehicles were 2016 Ram 2500 CTD, 2002 Ford F250, 7.3 PSD, 1997 Ram 2500 5.9 gas engine
Yes, your half-ton will haul 9500 lbs. of logs, rocks or other such items but it is not going to haul a 9500 lb. TT if you want to carry your family, camp gear and food.
In the real world, a half-ton peaks out with a 5000 lbs. dry weight TT. Half of the weight of food, towels, pots, pans, chairs, tools and other must haves, end up as tongue weight which combined with family and TV gear, peaks out the max cargo long before the 9500 lb. Tow limit.
Don't take my word for it, go to the nearest truck w stop and get the true CAT scale numbers.
I was flabbergasted by my numbers.
rbpru wrote:
Well five pages, the OP should realize that things are rarely as simple as the adds show.
Yes, your half-ton will haul 9500 lbs. of logs, rocks or other such items but it is not going to haul a 9500 lb. TT if you want to carry your family, camp gear and food.
In the real world, a half-ton peaks out with a 5000 lbs. dry weight TT. Half of the weight of food, towels, pots, pans, chairs, tools and other must haves, end up as tongue weight which combined with family and TV gear, peaks out the max cargo long before the 9500 lb. Tow limit.
Don't take my word for it, go to the nearest truck w stop and get the true CAT scale numbers.
I was flabbergasted by my numbers.
Well five pages, the OP should realize that things are rarely as simple as the adds show.
Yes, your half-ton will haul 9500 lbs. of logs, rocks or other such items but it is not going to haul a 9500 lb. TT if you want to carry your family, camp gear and food.
In the real world, a half-ton peaks out with a 5000 lbs. dry weight TT. Half of the weight of food, towels, pots, pans, chairs, tools and other must haves, end up as tongue weight which combined with family and TV gear, peaks out the max cargo long before the 9500 lb. Tow limit.
Don't take my word for it, go to the nearest truck w stop and get the true CAT scale numbers.
I was flabbergasted by my numbers.
Huh? What are you going on about? When did I write anything about having a "half-ton (that) will haul 9500 lbs?" That sounds like a pick-up truck. I don't own a pick-up truck.
My 2008 Nissan Xterra has a GVWR of 5400 lbs. and a GCWR of 9658 lbs.
I weighed it this morning loaded as it would be if I were towing a travel trailer (full gas tank, all my photo gear in the back, spare tire, tools, and 1 passenger (me), and it tipped the scale at 4830 lbs. I calculate that as meaning it could handle a hitch weight of up to 570 lbs although the Xterra is only rated by Nissan for 500 lbs.
The good news is I've been looking at a 24 foot Keystone Passport Ultralight (Mod. 195RB) and, fully loaded, it would top out at 5200 lbs. However, since I will be traveling alone I can't imagine adding more than 500 lbs of cargo just for me. That would make the TT's loaded weight at around 4211 lbs.
The big question mark now is the Xterra's trailer frontal area is limited to no more than 60 sq. ft. The 195RB is either going to just make that or just miss it. So far, I haven't been able to pin down that statistic. Guess I'll have to take a tape measure to a dealer and check it for myself.
Now, have I miscalculated any of the above or overlooked anything I ought to have considered?
hjcihak46 wrote:
Well folks, here's what I've learned.
My 2008 Nissan Xterra has a GVWR of 5400 lbs. and a GCWR of 9658 lbs.
I weighed it this morning loaded as it would be if I were towing a travel trailer (full gas tank, all my photo gear in the back, spare tire, tools, and 1 passenger (me), and it tipped the scale at 4830 lbs. I calculate that as meaning it could handle a hitch weight of up to 570 lbs although the Xterra is only rated by Nissan for 500 lbs.
The good news is I've been looking at a 24 foot Keystone Passport Ultralight (Mod. 195RB) and, fully loaded, it would top out at 5200 lbs. However, since I will be traveling alone I can't imagine adding more than 500 lbs of cargo just for me. That would make the TT's loaded weight at around 4211 lbs.
The big question mark now is the Xterra's trailer frontal area is limited to no more than 60 sq. ft. The 195RB is either going to just make that or just miss it. So far, I haven't been able to pin down that statistic. Guess I'll have to take a tape measure to a dealer and check it for myself.
Now, have I miscalculated any of the above or overlooked anything I ought to have considered?
Well folks, here's what I've learned.
My 2008 Nissan Xterra has a GVWR of 5400 lbs. and a GCWR of 9658 lbs.
I weighed it this morning loaded as it would be if I were towing a travel trailer (full gas tank, all my photo gear in the back, spare tire, tools, and 1 passenger (me), and it tipped the scale at 4830 lbs. I calculate that as meaning it could handle a hitch weight of up to 570 lbs although the Xterra is only rated by Nissan for 500 lbs.
The good news is I've been looking at a 24 foot Keystone Passport Ultralight (Mod. 195RB) and, fully loaded, it would top out at 5200 lbs. However, since I will be traveling alone I can't imagine adding more than 500 lbs of cargo just for me. That would make the TT's loaded weight at around 4211 lbs.
The big question mark now is the Xterra's trailer frontal area is limited to no more than 60 sq. ft. The 195RB is either going to just make that or just miss it. So far, I haven't been able to pin down that statistic. Guess I'll have to take a tape measure to a dealer and check it for myself.
Now, have I miscalculated any of the above or overlooked anything I ought to have considered?
Newbee mistake.
Acutally, you WILL be shocked just how much additional weight in "stuff" you WILL "add" to the trailer.
No one ever travels and camps with an empty trailer.
I will also reiterate that if you are going from SALES BROCHURES you will also be mistaken on the empty weight.
Sales brochures only give you an APPROXIMATE empty weight, typically the BATTERY AND PROPANE are not included in the brochure empty weight and the brochure weight is often without any factory "options"..
You ALSO need to take the WD hitch weight into consideration, some folk who wish to justify a badly overweight condition like to say the WD weight is "shared" by the trailer and vehicle.. In truth, it IS DEAD WEIGHT ADDED TO THE TONGUE.
WD systems are about 80 lbs - 100 lbs of weight so you NEED to allow for that.
Additionally, at 4211 lbs, at 15% you ARE not only way over your vehicles available cargo but also the HITCH weight.
4211 lbs at 10% hitch weight plus 100 lbs for WD puts you at 521 lbs on the hitch putting you OVER the vehicles hitch rating.
RETHINK, GO LIGHTER.
Something like 2,600 lbs empty which at 15% hitch gives you 390 lbs and add on WD gives about 490 lbs tongue, which gives you a whopping 10 lbs of hitch weight or 100 lbs of "gear" you can take..
Trust me, you DO NOT WANT TO TOW AT OR BELOW 10% TONGUE WEIGHT.. The results will be white knuckle driving..
hjcihak46 wrote:
Well folks, here's what I've learned.
My 2008 Nissan Xterra has a GVWR of 5400 lbs. and a GCWR of 9658 lbs.
I weighed it this morning loaded as it would be if I were towing a travel trailer (full gas tank, all my photo gear in the back, spare tire, tools, and 1 passenger (me), and it tipped the scale at 4830 lbs. I calculate that as meaning it could handle a hitch weight of up to 570 lbs although the Xterra is only rated by Nissan for 500 lbs.
The good news is I've been looking at a 24 foot Keystone Passport Ultralight (Mod. 195RB) and, fully loaded, it would top out at 5200 lbs. However, since I will be traveling alone I can't imagine adding more than 500 lbs of cargo just for me. That would make the TT's loaded weight at around 4211 lbs.
The big question mark now is the Xterra's trailer frontal area is limited to no more than 60 sq. ft. The 195RB is either going to just make that or just miss it. So far, I haven't been able to pin down that statistic. Guess I'll have to take a tape measure to a dealer and check it for myself.
Now, have I miscalculated any of the above or overlooked anything I ought to have considered?
Well folks, here's what I've learned.
My 2008 Nissan Xterra has a GVWR of 5400 lbs. and a GCWR of 9658 lbs.
I weighed it this morning loaded as it would be if I were towing a travel trailer (full gas tank, all my photo gear in the back, spare tire, tools, and 1 passenger (me), and it tipped the scale at 4830 lbs. I calculate that as meaning it could handle a hitch weight of up to 570 lbs although the Xterra is only rated by Nissan for 500 lbs.
The good news is I've been looking at a 24 foot Keystone Passport Ultralight (Mod. 195RB) and, fully loaded, it would top out at 5200 lbs. However, since I will be traveling alone I can't imagine adding more than 500 lbs of cargo just for me. That would make the TT's loaded weight at around 4211 lbs.
The big question mark now is the Xterra's trailer frontal area is limited to no more than 60 sq. ft. The 195RB is either going to just make that or just miss it. So far, I haven't been able to pin down that statistic. Guess I'll have to take a tape measure to a dealer and check it for myself.
Now, have I miscalculated any of the above or overlooked anything I ought to have considered?
To give you an idea of dry weight, here’s my experience with my present camper. The factory sticker proclaimed a weight of 3820 pounds leaving the factory. On the way home, I stopped at the cat scales. The camper weighed 4150 pounds without me putting a thing in it.
That Passport has a published weight of 3711 pounds. Unless you have seen the actual sticker, that is probably under the leaving the factory weight. Then, there is the real weight when leaving wherever you buy it.
I have not read of anyone that has not had this experience.
hjcihak46 wrote:
Now, have I miscalculated any of the above or overlooked anything I ought to have considered?
Now, have I miscalculated any of the above or overlooked anything I ought to have considered?
GrandpaKip wrote:
To give you an idea of dry weight, here’s my experience with my present camper. The factory sticker proclaimed a weight of 3820 pounds leaving the factory. On the way home, I stopped at the cat scales. The camper weighed 4150 pounds without me putting a thing in it.
That Passport has a published weight of 3711 pounds. Unless you have seen the actual sticker, that is probably under the leaving the factory weight. Then, there is the real weight when leaving wherever you buy it.
I have not read of anyone that has not had this experience.
To give you an idea of dry weight, here’s my experience with my present camper. The factory sticker proclaimed a weight of 3820 pounds leaving the factory. On the way home, I stopped at the cat scales. The camper weighed 4150 pounds without me putting a thing in it.
That Passport has a published weight of 3711 pounds. Unless you have seen the actual sticker, that is probably under the leaving the factory weight. Then, there is the real weight when leaving wherever you buy it.
I have not read of anyone that has not had this experience.
Another example ...
My own trailer has a published dry weight of 3535 lbs ...
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/eiJUaz7l.jpg)
... but it's stickered dry weight as it left the factory was 280 lbs heavier ...
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/we3We5Fl.jpg)
... and this is before anything was added to the trailer. Install a battery, fill the two 20 lb propane tanks, fill the water heater tank, and with a few gallons of water in the fresh water holding tank my so-called 3535 lb trailer weighed ~ 4000 lbs before I added anything else. Averaging ~ 4800 lbs loaded & ready to camp it's almost 1300 lbs heavier than it's so called advertised dry weight of 3535 lbs.
2012 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab
2014 Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS
2003 Fleetwood Yuma * 2008 K-Z Spree 240BH-LX
2007 TrailCruiser C21RBH * 2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe
1998 Jayco 10UD * 1969 Coleman CT380