We like to boondock a lot, and I like the idea of heating with diesel rather than propane.
I think the hydronic systems are quieter, is that correct?
I wonder about battery use as well, does a hydro system use more or less electrical power to run the boiler, pumps, and fans?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
49 States, 6 Provinces, 2 Territories...
We also have electric hot water, but again when it gets cold, the Oasis delivers pretty much unlimited hot water.
However, you are wrong regarding being quieter. Ours sounds like a get engine when it is running.
I love the fact that we do not need to carry propane.
Ken
2016 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
Our Blog: Lawrence Adventures
Battery use is s little more I would guess because the multiple fans in each or 6 radiators plus the pumps moving the heating fluid would seem to be using a bit more. We boondock a bit and have no problems but then we aren’t in really cold weather.
That said the agua hot is the best system we have ever had. Comfortable heat less moisture in the air ,unlimited hot water. We won’t own another large motorhome without one.
Bill
2013 Winnebago Itasca Meridian 42E
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara Towed
Our first coach had the Aqua Hot system which was excellent. I know that there are different levels of those type systems. Our Aqua Hot heated water and had two electric elements. We could heat the coach electrically thru the Aqua Hot with the two elements activated when the outside temperature was down in the upper 40's, low 50's.
Our system was rather quiet and didn't smoke much. Usually the 'smoky' systems needed service. I would have ours done every two years changing the fuel nozzle, fuel filter and blowing out the chamber. I kept a jug of boiler fluid for topping off the reservoir if needed.
Our new coach (owned 3 yrs. now) has the Espar 83,000 btu system that works very similar to the Aqua Hot. It will heat the antifreeze which runs through the water tank and it will also heat the engine block if I hit the switch to warm the engine.
The difference between the Espar and Aqua Hot is that I don't have a separate boiler fluid, it uses the same engine antifreeze. Our exhaust is located in the engine compartment and radiates out the roof ventilation where the engine exhaust is located.
You will love a diesel fired furnace no matter which brand.
Safe travels,
MM.
Mr.Mark
2021.5 Pleasure Way Plateau FL Class-B on the Sprinter Chassis
2018 Mini Cooper Hardtop Coupe, 2 dr., 6-speed manual
(SOLD) 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach, 45 ft, 500 hp Volvo
(SOLD) 2008 Monaco Dynasty, 42 ft, 425 hp Cummins
Mr.Mark wrote:
The difference between the Espar and Aqua Hot is that I don't have a separate boiler fluid, it uses the same engine antifreeze.
The difference between the Espar and Aqua Hot is that I don't have a separate boiler fluid, it uses the same engine antifreeze.
Espar is German (?) made and was originally developed for the trucking industry. Yes, It requires antifreeze, but you can plumb that into one side of a heat exchanger and make hot water.
Performance and your comfort are going to be very dependent on the installation, especially if you are doing in-floor radiant heat (by far the most comfortable). Underfloor insulation is mandatory.
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theoldwizard1 wrote:
Espar is German (?) made and was originally developed for the trucking industry. Yes, It requires antifreeze, but you can plumb that into one side of a heat exchanger and make hot water.
Performance and your comfort are going to be very dependent on the installation, especially if you are doing in-floor radiant heat (by far the most comfortable). Underfloor insulation is mandatory.
Mr.Mark wrote:
The difference between the Espar and Aqua Hot is that I don't have a separate boiler fluid, it uses the same engine antifreeze.
The difference between the Espar and Aqua Hot is that I don't have a separate boiler fluid, it uses the same engine antifreeze.
Espar is German (?) made and was originally developed for the trucking industry. Yes, It requires antifreeze, but you can plumb that into one side of a heat exchanger and make hot water.
Performance and your comfort are going to be very dependent on the installation, especially if you are doing in-floor radiant heat (by far the most comfortable). Underfloor insulation is mandatory.
We also have electric heated flooring (4 zones) that are done with heat pads. Heated flooring is absolutely wonderful. Unless it's frigid outside, the heated flooring can maintain interior temp.
We also have two electric 'toe-kick' heaters, one in the kitchen/living area and one in the rear bath. It's just a redundant system as we can heat four ways depending on the exterior temp:
-Four roof-top heat pumps
-Espar diesel fired furnace
-Electric floor heat
-Electric toe-kick heaters thermostatically controlled.
MM.
* This post was edited 12/26/17 06:01pm by Mr.Mark *
Executive wrote:
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
This is my experience too with the Aqua-Hot DE 450.
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This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.
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Executive wrote:
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
Question....How does all this work and let's say the AquaHot/Hydronic, system fails and whether or not you're boon docking or not, what do you do for hot water, heat, etc....and until you get it fixed?
I would guess the genset for space heaters, but how about the hot water and if I'm to understand this thing correctly, most everything is dependent upon it working, instead of having individual self contained appliances. I'm also assuming that the range is electric and needs the genset, correct?
"We are often so caught up in our destination that we forget to appreciate the journey."
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As for heating I use my heat pumps most of the time, even down to freezing. I do have a 1500W electric heater as a Just in Case. When it's really cold or boondocking for more than a day you need the boiler to work...like last night when it was 30 degrees out parked in the doctors parking lot for a 8 AM appointment. I only heated the back of the coach last night and my batteries went from 12.2V to 12.1V BUT I have plenty of AHs and this included the residential refrigerator.
What I post is my 2 cents and nothing more. Please don't read anything into my post that's not there. If you disagree, that's OK.
Can't we all just get along?
tropical36 wrote:
Question....How does all this work and let's say the AquaHot/Hydronic, system fails and whether or not you're boon docking or not, what do you do for hot water, heat, etc....and until you get it fixed?
I would guess the genset for space heaters, but how about the hot water and if I'm to understand this thing correctly, most everything is dependent upon it working, instead of having individual self contained appliances. I'm also assuming that the range is electric and needs the genset, correct?
Executive wrote:
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
Question....How does all this work and let's say the AquaHot/Hydronic, system fails and whether or not you're boon docking or not, what do you do for hot water, heat, etc....and until you get it fixed?
I would guess the genset for space heaters, but how about the hot water and if I'm to understand this thing correctly, most everything is dependent upon it working, instead of having individual self contained appliances. I'm also assuming that the range is electric and needs the genset, correct?
If your Aqua Hot system failed completely, you would not have hot water or the ability to heat the coach beyond what you could do with electric heaters (generator or shore power) or overhead heat pumps.
The Aqua Hot has both electric heating element/s and the diesel burner. It seems that issues with the diesel burner (Webasto) are more common than any issue with the electric heating element. However, if the burner will not work, the electric element is limited in how much hot water or heat it can provide. But, you can still have some hot water with just the electric element.
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Mile High wrote:
For the MHs we looked at, in general the hydronic heated units had 150 gal diesel tanks whereas the others only 100 gal.
For the MHs we looked at, in general the hydronic heated units had 150 gal diesel tanks whereas the others only 100 gal.
Are you comparing diesel vs. Propane fuel? If so, that would likely be 150 gal. of diesel VS. 100# or propane or something more like 25 gal.
Executive wrote:
The Aqua Hot has both electric heating element/s and the diesel burner. It seems that issues with the diesel burner (Webasto) are more common than any issue with the electric heating element. However, if the burner will not work, the electric element is limited in how much hot water or heat it can provide. But, you can still have some hot water with just the electric element.
The Aqua Hot has both electric heating element/s and the diesel burner. It seems that issues with the diesel burner (Webasto) are more common than any issue with the electric heating element. However, if the burner will not work, the electric element is limited in how much hot water or heat it can provide. But, you can still have some hot water with just the electric element.
To follow-up with with how well the electric side of our Aqua-hot system operates, admittedly, we are somewhat conservative water users but, the electric element provides all of our hot water and heat needs unless outside temperatures fall much below 45 deg F or so. If we have guests onboard, the diesel burner gets fired at times. However, for boondocking, remember the electric element is dependent upon shore power or genset whereas the diesel burner is not.
I have no data to support this comment but, I suspect operating a hydronic Aqua-hot heat system with the diesel burner and then using batteries only to operate the pump and the small fans at each heat exchanger on our coach would require significantly less battery power than running a propane fired furnace like we've had in our other motorhomes.
Smelly and noisy would not be my description of a properly operating Aqua-hot hydronic system.
* This post was edited 12/27/17 07:17am by Solo *
Solo
2011 Itasca Ellipse 42QD, 450 HP ISL Cummins
2012 Jeep JKU with SMI DUO Braking System
Bill.Satellite wrote:
Are you comparing diesel vs. Propane fuel?
No-no, not really. Just pointing out that the manufacturer typically increased the diesel fuel tank size for units equipped with hydronic heating in case anyone was concerned about the heat eating into the chassis overall travel range.
Mile High wrote:
For the MHs we looked at, in general the hydronic heated units had 150 gal diesel tanks whereas the others only 100 gal.
For the MHs we looked at, in general the hydronic heated units had 150 gal diesel tanks whereas the others only 100 gal.
Are you comparing diesel vs. Propane fuel?
Solo wrote:
I have no data to support this comment but, I suspect operating a hydronic Aqua-hot heat system with the diesel burner and then using batteries only to operate the pump and the small fans at each heat exchanger on our coach would require significantly less battery power than running a propane fired furnace like we've had in our other motorhomes.
I suspect you are correct - Both my SF25QW and SF20QW suburban furnaces draw 7.0 amp each. That 14.0 amps when both running. The furnaces are tough on battery draw.
I have no data to support this comment but, I suspect operating a hydronic Aqua-hot heat system with the diesel burner and then using batteries only to operate the pump and the small fans at each heat exchanger on our coach would require significantly less battery power than running a propane fired furnace like we've had in our other motorhomes.
smlranger wrote:
If your Aqua Hot system failed completely, you would not have hot water or the ability to heat the coach beyond what you could do with electric heaters (generator or shore power) or overhead heat pumps.
The Aqua Hot has both electric heating element/s and the diesel burner. It seems that issues with the diesel burner (Webasto) are more common than any issue with the electric heating element. However, if the burner will not work, the electric element is limited in how much hot water or heat it can provide. But, you can still have some hot water with just the electric element.
tropical36 wrote:
Question....How does all this work and let's say the AquaHot/Hydronic, system fails and whether or not you're boon docking or not, what do you do for hot water, heat, etc....and until you get it fixed?
I would guess the genset for space heaters, but how about the hot water and if I'm to understand this thing correctly, most everything is dependent upon it working, instead of having individual self contained appliances. I'm also assuming that the range is electric and needs the genset, correct?
Executive wrote:
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
Question....How does all this work and let's say the AquaHot/Hydronic, system fails and whether or not you're boon docking or not, what do you do for hot water, heat, etc....and until you get it fixed?
I would guess the genset for space heaters, but how about the hot water and if I'm to understand this thing correctly, most everything is dependent upon it working, instead of having individual self contained appliances. I'm also assuming that the range is electric and needs the genset, correct?
If your Aqua Hot system failed completely, you would not have hot water or the ability to heat the coach beyond what you could do with electric heaters (generator or shore power) or overhead heat pumps.
The Aqua Hot has both electric heating element/s and the diesel burner. It seems that issues with the diesel burner (Webasto) are more common than any issue with the electric heating element. However, if the burner will not work, the electric element is limited in how much hot water or heat it can provide. But, you can still have some hot water with just the electric element.
Thanks for that and kind of what I thought, with the kind of specifics, I was looking for.
I'm getting old and still a little old school as well, so with our two overhead heat pumps, two independent forced air furnaces, elect/propane hot water and of course, portable on board space heaters, I feel that we're good to go, no matter. Still have the RV fridge, too, but just as soon not, with having a 2KW inverter.
Eventually these modern systems will be the only thing out there and pretty much bullet proof, as well. For right now, I am hearing about a lot of failures surrounding these systems, that don't sound like an easy fix, while out there on the road.
tropical36 wrote:
Thanks for that and kind of what I thought, with the kind of specifics, I was looking for.
I'm getting old and still a little old school as well, so with our two overhead heat pumps, two independent forced air furnaces, elect/propane hot water and of course, portable on board space heaters, I feel that we're good to go, no matter. Still have the RV fridge, too, but just as soon not, with having a 2KW inverter.
Eventually these modern systems will be the only thing out there and pretty much bullet proof, as well. For right now, I am hearing about a lot of failures surrounding these systems, that don't sound like an easy fix, while out there on the road.
smlranger wrote:
If your Aqua Hot system failed completely, you would not have hot water or the ability to heat the coach beyond what you could do with electric heaters (generator or shore power) or overhead heat pumps.
The Aqua Hot has both electric heating element/s and the diesel burner. It seems that issues with the diesel burner (Webasto) are more common than any issue with the electric heating element. However, if the burner will not work, the electric element is limited in how much hot water or heat it can provide. But, you can still have some hot water with just the electric element.
tropical36 wrote:
Question....How does all this work and let's say the AquaHot/Hydronic, system fails and whether or not you're boon docking or not, what do you do for hot water, heat, etc....and until you get it fixed?
I would guess the genset for space heaters, but how about the hot water and if I'm to understand this thing correctly, most everything is dependent upon it working, instead of having individual self contained appliances. I'm also assuming that the range is electric and needs the genset, correct?
Executive wrote:
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
While not the Hydronic system, we have it's brother, AquaHot. If it smokes, it needs servicing. It will smell a bit though. That said, our unit has separate blowers at each of the registers so it's very quiet when it's running. We leave ours on electric most of the time and only need to fire up the unit for showers as DW likes long hot showers in the morning. Heating the rig is just a humming sound. Wouldn't have another coach without it....Dennis
Question....How does all this work and let's say the AquaHot/Hydronic, system fails and whether or not you're boon docking or not, what do you do for hot water, heat, etc....and until you get it fixed?
I would guess the genset for space heaters, but how about the hot water and if I'm to understand this thing correctly, most everything is dependent upon it working, instead of having individual self contained appliances. I'm also assuming that the range is electric and needs the genset, correct?
If your Aqua Hot system failed completely, you would not have hot water or the ability to heat the coach beyond what you could do with electric heaters (generator or shore power) or overhead heat pumps.
The Aqua Hot has both electric heating element/s and the diesel burner. It seems that issues with the diesel burner (Webasto) are more common than any issue with the electric heating element. However, if the burner will not work, the electric element is limited in how much hot water or heat it can provide. But, you can still have some hot water with just the electric element.
Thanks for that and kind of what I thought, with the kind of specifics, I was looking for.
I'm getting old and still a little old school as well, so with our two overhead heat pumps, two independent forced air furnaces, elect/propane hot water and of course, portable on board space heaters, I feel that we're good to go, no matter. Still have the RV fridge, too, but just as soon not, with having a 2KW inverter.
Eventually these modern systems will be the only thing out there and pretty much bullet proof, as well. For right now, I am hearing about a lot of failures surrounding these systems, that don't sound like an easy fix, while out there on the road.
Frankly, I don't think you can count on any new 'systems' on modern RV's being bullet proof. In fact, it seems they fail more often as they get more complex. Not unlike home appliances these days. They are fully featured but don't have seem to be as reliable or durable as what many of us came to expect over the years. Just the way it is, IMO.
Mile High wrote:
Believe me, there is nothing bullet proof about the LP furnace in an RV. Every winter on the forum you can read the complaints from folks that have board failures, thermostat problems, etc. Between the two type of systems, I don't think either has a reliability advantage.
Believe me, there is nothing bullet proof about the LP furnace in an RV. Every winter on the forum you can read the complaints from folks that have board failures, thermostat problems, etc. Between the two type of systems, I don't think either has a reliability advantage.
So very true, but with these old systems, they pretty much all work independently of each other and the point, I was trying to make.
The best example is with my two separate forced air furnaces and the hot water tank, which have nothing to do with each other. Of course, they share the propane tank, but not like the tank is prone to failure with gadgets and moving parts to keep it operational.
Mile High wrote:
Bill.Satellite wrote:
Are you comparing diesel vs. Propane fuel?
No-no, not really. Just pointing out that the manufacturer typically increased the diesel fuel tank size for units equipped with hydronic heating in case anyone was concerned about the heat eating into the chassis overall travel range.Mile High wrote:
For the MHs we looked at, in general the hydronic heated units had 150 gal diesel tanks whereas the others only 100 gal.
For the MHs we looked at, in general the hydronic heated units had 150 gal diesel tanks whereas the others only 100 gal.
Are you comparing diesel vs. Propane fuel?
Ah, thanks. I get it now.
tropical36 wrote:
So very true, but with these old systems, they pretty much all work independently of each other and the point, I was trying to make.
The best example is with my two separate forced air furnaces and the hot water tank, which have nothing to do with each other. Of course, they share the propane tank, but not like the tank is prone to failure with gadgets and moving parts to keep it operational.
I agree, it's a valid point. Our first trip out we had one furnace that wouldn't run and 1 AC down but we made out fine. Mile High wrote:
Believe me, there is nothing bullet proof about the LP furnace in an RV. Every winter on the forum you can read the complaints from folks that have board failures, thermostat problems, etc. Between the two type of systems, I don't think either has a reliability advantage.
Believe me, there is nothing bullet proof about the LP furnace in an RV. Every winter on the forum you can read the complaints from folks that have board failures, thermostat problems, etc. Between the two type of systems, I don't think either has a reliability advantage.
So very true, but with these old systems, they pretty much all work independently of each other and the point, I was trying to make.
The best example is with my two separate forced air furnaces and the hot water tank, which have nothing to do with each other. Of course, they share the propane tank, but not like the tank is prone to failure with gadgets and moving parts to keep it operational.
Turns out I had erased them from the thermostat and had to program them back in
Took some nice feedback from the forum to get me back up with all running.