It is rated to tow 12k with a 1500 tongue weight rating.
My question to you out there who have "been there and done that".
I'm looking to purchase a Rockwood Signature trailer with a GVW of around 10k.
Is my Burb up to the job?
Thanks
2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010
And I'm jealous. The 8.1 2500 is the King of the Hill SUV tow vehicle.
2008 Suburban 2500 3LT 3.73 4X4 "The Beast"
2013 Springdale 303BHS, 8620 lbs
2009 GMC Sierra 1500 Denali (backup TV, hot rod)
2016 Jeep JKU Sahara in Tank, 3.23 (hers)
2010 Jeep JKU Sahara in Mango Tango PC, 3.73 (his)
RWiederhorn wrote:
I own a 2004 Suburban 2500 with the 8.1 gas engine, tow package ......I'm looking to purchase a Rockwood Signature trailer with a GVW of around 10k.
Is my Burb up to the job?
I own a 2004 Suburban 2500 with the 8.1 gas engine, tow package ......I'm looking to purchase a Rockwood Signature trailer with a GVW of around 10k.
Is my Burb up to the job?
In a nutshell......yes.
If it were my vehicle I'd do a couple of safety factor upgrades.
1) Change the OEM receiver.
The design of the OEM receiver in that era of truck was very poor. Basically, this hitch uses the bumper mounting hardware causing your WD hitch to get horrible transfer of weight to the front axles. Also, the metal was thin with poor welds and some members have had them fail. A well made Class V square tube receiver can be purchased for well under $200 and installed in an hour.
2) Brake Lines...
I would strongly encourage you to replace your brake lines with a stainless steel set. Your location of 'North East' tells me this truck has seen it's share of salt and that is bad JuJu for these lines. I used to have an '04 2500HD truck and the line from the master cylinder to the ABS module just ruptured one day. I knew of these issues so I purchased a complete replacement kit for all of the metal lines for about $125. It was a chore to replace them, but as I inspected each old line it was apparent more ruptures were on the way. I barely bent the old tubing and it would buckle where there was heavy corrosion.
After those safety upgrades I'd say you're all set.
KJ
'14 Ram 2500|Crew Cab Long Bed|4X4|Cummins
Curt Q20 with Ram 5th Wheel Prep
2000 Crownline 205BR
1997 Ranger Comanche 461VS
'01 Polaris Virage TX PWC
'94 Polaris SLT750 PWC
3 Wonderful Sons (21, 15, & 13)
1 forgiving wife!!!
Thank you for the excellent advice and the link for the receiver.
I will do both of your suggestions.
I'm doing a total rebuild on this vehicle, so the brake lines will be replaced. I replaced the power steering cooler and lines and all other coolers will be replaced as well. I am also planning to rebuild all four corners with wheel bearings, heavy duty rotors, pads and calipers. I retire in 2021 and plan to full time in a TT for a couple years. I have a few years to get the Burb in shape.
This vehicle has kind of a cool history. I bought it this year on EBay. It was listed by a dealer in Philadelphia. The original owner was the FBI and this Burb spent all it's time in the Quantico VA area. I figured it got all it's scheduled maintenance and was well cared for. The undercarriage is spotless.
http://www.autoquid.com/car-detail/suburban/2004-Chevrolet-Suburban-2500-4WD-2004-Chevrolet_142409660407.html
2006 E350 V10
Travel Trailer-TBD
Thanks!
Jeremiah
TV-2022 Silverado 2WD
TT - Zinger 270BH
WD Hitch- HaulMaster 1,000 lb Round Bar
Dual Friction bar sway control
It’s Kind of Fun to do the Impossible
~Walt Disney~
2016 6.7 CTD 2500 BIG HORN MEGA CAB
2013 Forest River 3001W Windjammer
Equilizer Hitch
Honda EU2000
"I have this plan to live forever; so far my plan is working"
Ron3rd wrote:
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans.
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans.
And the gas mileage - OUCH!
![[image]](https://i.imgur.com/Td8u86Wl.jpg)
Mine is an 05 with the 8.1 and 373 gears. The TT is 8k dry and I just pulled it through rush hour fort worth traffic stop and go at 95 degrees. Then pulled it home to oklahoma city in a 20mph head wind. No problems at all. Just put mine in 3rd and tried to stay under 70mph because of the trailer tires. Mine also has 285 tires vs 245 working against it. Dealer forgot about the freshwater tank being full but it didn't matter. (another 300+ pounds) Towing MPG's is not good but she will do the job. I don't think you will have any problems with 410 gears.
anw7405 wrote:
Also if you want just a little more grunt out of your 8.1 you can go to Raylar engineering and the sky is the limit. The 8.1 is so tuned down and restricted from the factory its not even funny. I might throw some heads and an intake manifold on in the next couple of years if the funds allow it.
Also if you want just a little more grunt out of your 8.1 you can go to Raylar engineering and the sky is the limit. The 8.1 is so tuned down and restricted from the factory its not even funny. I might throw some heads and an intake manifold on in the next couple of years if the funds allow it.
I looked at their site. About 6k to do their #2 upgrade. That gets you to 525 HP and 580 FT LBs... Sick!!!!
anw7405 wrote:
Mine is an 05 with the 8.1 and 373 gears. The TT is 8k dry and I just pulled it through rush hour fort worth traffic stop and go at 95 degrees. Then pulled it home to oklahoma city in a 20mph head wind. No problems at all. Just put mine in 3rd and tried to stay under 70mph because of the trailer tires. Mine also has 285 tires vs 245 working against it. Dealer forgot about the freshwater tank being full but it didn't matter. (another 300+ pounds) Towing MPG's is not good but she will do the job. I don't think you will have any problems with 410 gears.
Mine is an 05 with the 8.1 and 373 gears. The TT is 8k dry and I just pulled it through rush hour fort worth traffic stop and go at 95 degrees. Then pulled it home to oklahoma city in a 20mph head wind. No problems at all. Just put mine in 3rd and tried to stay under 70mph because of the trailer tires. Mine also has 285 tires vs 245 working against it. Dealer forgot about the freshwater tank being full but it didn't matter. (another 300+ pounds) Towing MPG's is not good but she will do the job. I don't think you will have any problems with 410 gears.
Thanks for telling me about your experience. It really helps to know "real world" stuff.
RW
Tyler0215 wrote:
x2 on replacing the brake lines. 2000 2500 Silverado. Mine let go all at once, NO BRAKES. Luckily i was only going about 25 mph and steered into a parking lot and coasted to a stop. I could not believe how bad the lines were. Most crumbled when bent just a little bit.
x2 on replacing the brake lines. 2000 2500 Silverado. Mine let go all at once, NO BRAKES. Luckily i was only going about 25 mph and steered into a parking lot and coasted to a stop. I could not believe how bad the lines were. Most crumbled when bent just a little bit.
Holy smokes!! Sounds like you got lucky.. I have inspected the lines and they are rust covered so SS lines is a must do before I haul anything. Thanks for relaying your experience.
RW
It's a gasser, so it is what it is.
I had an '01 Burb 8.1L , 4.10 4X4 that I towed roughly 20K miles with (one trip was 9K with 3 teen boys...what a hoot)
My hand calculated average over those towing mies was 8.2MPG towing an 8000 lb trailer. Cruising at 63MPG the beast was barely breathing.
That is in line with most of the current gassers, so I wouldn't get too worried about it.
Driving UNLOADED, well that's another story.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
I drove it like a granny in town and probably never got better than 11-12MPG.
If you decide to "flex your displacement." prepare for many stops for fuel
Cheers.
Mickeyfan0805 wrote:
I have the same truck (2006), with the same configuration. Our trailer runs about 8,500 loaded, and I would go up another 1k or so without too much concern. If you are at 8 or below, dry, I'd say you will be fine - unless you are loading an especially large family or a ton of gear.
I have the same truck (2006), with the same configuration. Our trailer runs about 8,500 loaded, and I would go up another 1k or so without too much concern. If you are at 8 or below, dry, I'd say you will be fine - unless you are loading an especially large family or a ton of gear.
Your trailer is very much in the same ballpark as the one I'm looking at. What has your experience with the Rockwood Signature? Would you recommend The Rockwood?
RW
Mike E. wrote:
MPG concerns....really???
It's a gasser, so it is what it is.
I had an '01 Burb 8.1L , 4.10 4X4 that I towed roughly 20K miles with (one trip was 9K with 3 teen boys...what a hoot)
My hand calculated average over those towing mies was 8.2MPG towing an 8000 lb trailer. Cruising at 63MPG the beast was barely breathing.
That is in line with most of the current gassers, so I wouldn't get too worried about it.
Driving UNLOADED, well that's another story.
I drove it like a granny in town and probably never got better than 11-12MPG.
If you decide to "flex your displacement." prepare for many stops for fuel
Cheers.
MPG concerns....really???
It's a gasser, so it is what it is.
I had an '01 Burb 8.1L , 4.10 4X4 that I towed roughly 20K miles with (one trip was 9K with 3 teen boys...what a hoot)
My hand calculated average over those towing mies was 8.2MPG towing an 8000 lb trailer. Cruising at 63MPG the beast was barely breathing.
That is in line with most of the current gassers, so I wouldn't get too worried about it.
Driving UNLOADED, well that's another story.
I drove it like a granny in town and probably never got better than 11-12MPG.
If you decide to "flex your displacement." prepare for many stops for fuel
Cheers.
Ha! Indeed! I expect to not pass by too many gas stations without stopping... LOL
RW
jerem0621 wrote:
I think you are good to go with that rig. Get your set up right between the truck and the trailer and you should not have any problems. 3/4 Ton sub is a very capable SUV and the 8.1 has torque galore. Keep an eye on the oil. Many users report that the 8.1 can eat about a quart of oil between changes.
Thanks!
Jeremiah
I think you are good to go with that rig. Get your set up right between the truck and the trailer and you should not have any problems. 3/4 Ton sub is a very capable SUV and the 8.1 has torque galore. Keep an eye on the oil. Many users report that the 8.1 can eat about a quart of oil between changes.
Thanks!
Jeremiah
And if they admit to a quart it's probably more! It is with mine. But I just roll with it. It seems to do best with a high mileage synthetic.
Ron3rd wrote:
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
What is your issue with the 4 speed?
captnjack wrote:
What is your issue with the 4 speed?
Ron3rd wrote:
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
What is your issue with the 4 speed?
I am curious as well. I’ve never had an issue with a 4 speed. Except a 700r4 I tore up in my youth. Not the transmissions fault. Been driving 4 speeds for decades!
Thanks.
Jeremiah
RWiederhorn wrote:
Your trailer is very much in the same ballpark as the one I'm looking at. What has your experience with the Rockwood Signature? Would you recommend The Rockwood?
RW
Mickeyfan0805 wrote:
I have the same truck (2006), with the same configuration. Our trailer runs about 8,500 loaded, and I would go up another 1k or so without too much concern. If you are at 8 or below, dry, I'd say you will be fine - unless you are loading an especially large family or a ton of gear.
I have the same truck (2006), with the same configuration. Our trailer runs about 8,500 loaded, and I would go up another 1k or so without too much concern. If you are at 8 or below, dry, I'd say you will be fine - unless you are loading an especially large family or a ton of gear.
Your trailer is very much in the same ballpark as the one I'm looking at. What has your experience with the Rockwood Signature? Would you recommend The Rockwood?
RW
We've been very happy with it. We bought it new in 2012 and have spent and average of 25-30 nights in it each year. We are a family of 5, so the layout is what we needed. We have had minimal issues with construction, and have been able to handle all of it on my own. Based on our experience, I would certainly recommend it to others.
jerem0621 wrote:
I am curious as well. I’ve never had an issue with a 4 speed. Except a 700r4 I tore up in my youth. Not the transmissions fault. Been driving 4 speeds for decades!
Thanks.
Jeremiah
captnjack wrote:
What is your issue with the 4 speed?
Ron3rd wrote:
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
What is your issue with the 4 speed?
I am curious as well. I’ve never had an issue with a 4 speed. Except a 700r4 I tore up in my youth. Not the transmissions fault. Been driving 4 speeds for decades!
Thanks.
Jeremiah
Nothing "wrong" per se. It's just old tech compared to newer autos with more fwd gears, better TC lockup programming and better shift point programming.....and stronger internals.
It's also the only factory option for a big block burb so it is what it is.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
Grit dog wrote:
Nothing "wrong" per se. It's just old tech compared to newer autos with more fwd gears, better TC lockup programming and better shift point programming.....and stronger internals.
It's also the only factory option for a big block burb so it is what it is.
jerem0621 wrote:
I am curious as well. I’ve never had an issue with a 4 speed. Except a 700r4 I tore up in my youth. Not the transmissions fault. Been driving 4 speeds for decades!
Thanks.
Jeremiah
captnjack wrote:
What is your issue with the 4 speed?
Ron3rd wrote:
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
It will pull it; the biggest thing that will kick your arse is the 4 sp trans. If you like the trailer, I say go for it!
What is your issue with the 4 speed?
I am curious as well. I’ve never had an issue with a 4 speed. Except a 700r4 I tore up in my youth. Not the transmissions fault. Been driving 4 speeds for decades!
Thanks.
Jeremiah
Nothing "wrong" per se. It's just old tech compared to newer autos with more fwd gears, better TC lockup programming and better shift point programming.....and stronger internals.
It's also the only factory option for a big block burb so it is what it is.
Little off topic, but I remember reading old articles in Super Chevy about how to properly swap in a 700R4 4 speed into a 67-69 Camaro. New Fangled 4 speed revolutionizing everything. LOL.
Thanks!
Jeremiah
RWiederhorn wrote:
Holy smokes!! Sounds like you got lucky.. I have inspected the lines and they are rust covered so SS lines is a must do before I haul anything. Thanks for relaying your experience.
RW
X4 on brake lines. My GM brake lines blew out in town thankfully.
Tyler0215 wrote:
x2 on replacing the brake lines. 2000 2500 Silverado. Mine let go all at once, NO BRAKES. Luckily i was only going about 25 mph and steered into a parking lot and coasted to a stop. I could not believe how bad the lines were. Most crumbled when bent just a little bit.
x2 on replacing the brake lines. 2000 2500 Silverado. Mine let go all at once, NO BRAKES. Luckily i was only going about 25 mph and steered into a parking lot and coasted to a stop. I could not believe how bad the lines were. Most crumbled when bent just a little bit.
Holy smokes!! Sounds like you got lucky.. I have inspected the lines and they are rust covered so SS lines is a must do before I haul anything. Thanks for relaying your experience.
RW
Nothing wrong with the 4L80E...plug in an aftermarket OD, of say 0.75 or 0.5 that has a splitter ability and my 4 speed 4L80E becomes an 8 speed...
Hughes plus 1,500 HP 4L80E
Jakes Performance plus 1,800 HP
Animal plus 1,200 HP
Know nothing of these companies...just did a quick search, but my tranny guy says there are many out there that are not used as racers and last a long time
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
2012 Keystone Outback 312bh
2003 GMC Yukon XL 2500 4X4 Quadrasteer
2010 VW Routan
2007 Chrysler Pacifica AWD
I think all the brake lines on mine are good though. No rust anywhere or corrosion.
* This post was edited 11/13/17 06:20am by anw7405 *
kevden wrote:
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
anw7405 wrote:
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
kevden wrote:
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
The springs on a 2500 Burb need no help. No need to replace them with any of those products. A half-ton? Maybe. But not a 3/4 ton. See how flat and level mine is sitting? Stock suspension, 1100-lb tongue, no WD hitch. Perhaps the previous poster needed it because his quadrasteer Burb has more unsprung weight on the rear.
Now, on the other hand, the right shock absorbers will make a big difference. I installed Bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners on my Burb and the difference was like night and day. Wonderful, controlled ride, no porpoising at all.
intheburbs wrote:
The springs on a 2500 Burb need no help. No need to replace them with any of those products. A half-ton? Maybe. But not a 3/4 ton. See how flat and level mine is sitting? Stock suspension, 1100-lb tongue, no WD hitch. Perhaps the previous poster needed it because his quadrasteer Burb has more unsprung weight on the rear.
Now, on the other hand, the right shock absorbers will make a big difference. I installed Bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners on my Burb and the difference was like night and day. Wonderful, controlled ride, no porpoising at all.
anw7405 wrote:
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
kevden wrote:
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
The springs on a 2500 Burb need no help. No need to replace them with any of those products. A half-ton? Maybe. But not a 3/4 ton. See how flat and level mine is sitting? Stock suspension, 1100-lb tongue, no WD hitch. Perhaps the previous poster needed it because his quadrasteer Burb has more unsprung weight on the rear.
Now, on the other hand, the right shock absorbers will make a big difference. I installed Bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners on my Burb and the difference was like night and day. Wonderful, controlled ride, no porpoising at all.
My Burb has the AutoRide option, so you have to stay OEM or an aftermarket direct replacement to maintain the active suspension.
intheburbs wrote:
The springs on a 2500 Burb need no help. No need to replace them with any of those products. A half-ton? Maybe. But not a 3/4 ton. See how flat and level mine is sitting? Stock suspension, 1100-lb tongue, no WD hitch. Perhaps the previous poster needed it because his quadrasteer Burb has more unsprung weight on the rear.
Now, on the other hand, the right shock absorbers will make a big difference. I installed Bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners on my Burb and the difference was like night and day. Wonderful, controlled ride, no porpoising at all.
anw7405 wrote:
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
kevden wrote:
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
The springs on a 2500 Burb need no help. No need to replace them with any of those products. A half-ton? Maybe. But not a 3/4 ton. See how flat and level mine is sitting? Stock suspension, 1100-lb tongue, no WD hitch. Perhaps the previous poster needed it because his quadrasteer Burb has more unsprung weight on the rear.
Now, on the other hand, the right shock absorbers will make a big difference. I installed Bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners on my Burb and the difference was like night and day. Wonderful, controlled ride, no porpoising at all.
Did you see a big difference loaded or unloaded with the 4600s? I think all the 8.1's had the autoride right? IMO my autoride sucks.
Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.
mkirsch wrote:
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
I don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere that it takes more torque and hp to turn the Allison than the 4l80. So an Allison would in theory have less hp and torque to the wheels.
anw7405 wrote:
Did you see a big difference loaded or unloaded with the 4600s? I think all the 8.1's had the autoride right? IMO my autoride sucks.
intheburbs wrote:
The springs on a 2500 Burb need no help. No need to replace them with any of those products. A half-ton? Maybe. But not a 3/4 ton. See how flat and level mine is sitting? Stock suspension, 1100-lb tongue, no WD hitch. Perhaps the previous poster needed it because his quadrasteer Burb has more unsprung weight on the rear.
Now, on the other hand, the right shock absorbers will make a big difference. I installed Bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners on my Burb and the difference was like night and day. Wonderful, controlled ride, no porpoising at all.
anw7405 wrote:
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
kevden wrote:
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
The springs on a 2500 Burb need no help. No need to replace them with any of those products. A half-ton? Maybe. But not a 3/4 ton. See how flat and level mine is sitting? Stock suspension, 1100-lb tongue, no WD hitch. Perhaps the previous poster needed it because his quadrasteer Burb has more unsprung weight on the rear.
Now, on the other hand, the right shock absorbers will make a big difference. I installed Bilstein 4600s on all 4 corners on my Burb and the difference was like night and day. Wonderful, controlled ride, no porpoising at all.
Did you see a big difference loaded or unloaded with the 4600s? I think all the 8.1's had the autoride right? IMO my autoride sucks.
Biggest difference in ride was when towing heavy. I bought the truck used, and have no idea about how old those shocks were. Lots of bouncing/porpoising when towing. The 4600 shocks just about eliminated it.
anw7405 wrote:
I don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere that it takes more torque and hp to turn the Allison than the 4l80. So an Allison would in theory have less hp and torque to the wheels.
mkirsch wrote:
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
I don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere that it takes more torque and hp to turn the Allison than the 4l80. So an Allison would in theory have less hp and torque to the wheels.
The HD pickups got the Allison with the 8.1, but not the Suburbans. Reason was simple - the pickups were lifted and the body could clear the Allison bell housing. The non-lifted Suburbans didn't have the clearance, so the 4L80 was used instead.
anw7405 wrote:
I don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere that it takes more torque and hp to turn the Allison than the 4l80. So an Allison would in theory have less hp and torque to the wheels.
mkirsch wrote:
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
I don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere that it takes more torque and hp to turn the Allison than the 4l80. So an Allison would in theory have less hp and torque to the wheels.
It probably does, as it is a much larger transmission with more rotating mass. Simple physics.
The difference won't be enough that you'd feel it in the seat of your pants, and the extra gear more than makes up for it.
anw7405 wrote:
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
kevden wrote:
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
I suggest upgrading the rear suspension with air bags, timbrens, or sumosprings. The suburban will certainly tow without them, but they will make it much more enjoyable.
just a question. Does this just help with absorbing bumps a little better? I don't think the springs need any help on the burb. My tongue weight is probably around 900-1000lbs loaded and the springs seem to be fine.
It helps bumps on mine, but more importantly it is much more stable and controlled overall. I installed air bags on our previous tow vehicle to control porpoising that bilstien shocks could not. The airbags not only cured that, but greatly improved overall handling both towing and empty. I liked the improvements so much that I wanted helpers for the Yukon, but decided on timbrens for simplicity and zero maintenance. Last winter I replaced the autoride shocks with Monroe reflex(front) and Monroe load adjusting(rear). Big improvement there as well.
Good idea to replace brake lines, and if you do, I would replace the fuel lines too as they get just as rusty. Especially considering that you have to drop the main fuel tank to get to the rear brake lines. Bear in mind that you have TWO fuel tanks, each with its own fuel pump and sending unit.
Also good idea to replace the hitch receiver, the OEM does attach to the frame as well as the bumper, but the receiver design is flimsy. I broke mine, and many have reported getting a lot of flex in theirs. When the receiver flexes it's taking that torque that's being applied by the WD hitch and not sending the weight forward to the front wheels to level the truck. Get a good aftermarket hitch with a 12k rating like this one from e-trailer.
AutoRide....probably the most confusing thing that GM did. Both the 1500 and 2500 Suburbans have AutoRide but it is NOT the same system...on the 1500's, AutoRide means automatic load leveling with an on-board compressor and air shocks in the rear. On the 2500's, there is NO auto-leveling or compressor, instead AutoRide uses shocks that have magnetic fluid. There is a ride height sensor at every corner, and a separate ride control computer that uses data from a variety of systems including speed, steering angle, etc, to vary the stiffness of the shocks 1000 times/sec. This is called Real Time Damping (RTD) and is similar to the system GM uses on the Caddys. Replacement shocks are extremely expensive, but there is a way to bypass AutoRide and use regular shocks (I did that).
The springs need no help whatsoever, the leaf springs in the rear are very stout and have an overload leaf. The torsion bars up front are also very tough despite what the haters say about GM IFS...
The 8.1 does use some oil, it's normal. There is a level sensor in the pan that will send a "low oil level" message when you are two quarts low.
I just replaced my stereo with a double-DIN Kenwood touch screen with navigation, I'll post some pics and a how2 if you're interested.
Happy to help if you have any other questions or issues.
mkirsch wrote:
It probably does, as it is a much larger transmission with more rotating mass. Simple physics.
The difference won't be enough that you'd feel it in the seat of your pants, and the extra gear more than makes up for it.
anw7405 wrote:
I don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere that it takes more torque and hp to turn the Allison than the 4l80. So an Allison would in theory have less hp and torque to the wheels.
mkirsch wrote:
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
Too bad GM didn't offer the Suburban with the 8.1 / Allison combination. Having that 5th gear is real nice, though I rarely ever drop below 4th as that puts the engine at maximum torque output at 65MPH.
I don't know if it's true or not but I read somewhere that it takes more torque and hp to turn the Allison than the 4l80. So an Allison would in theory have less hp and torque to the wheels.
It probably does, as it is a much larger transmission with more rotating mass. Simple physics.
The difference won't be enough that you'd feel it in the seat of your pants, and the extra gear more than makes up for it.
The lower gear in first, 3.1 vs 2.48 ally vs 4l80e is a good thing, 3rd is taller than 2nd, so not as many rpm loss when one can not hold direct.
Hp is double needed with the ally vs 3l80e, about 60 vs 30. Enough that one could very well notice it! But as noted, with better, slightly closer gear splits etc, the ally is the better trans option vs 4l80e.
The issue with the older burb bodies, is the frame will not allow the overall size of the ally vs the 4l80. You can install one, but need to do IIRC a minimum body lift of around 2". ALong with moving the crossbeam support for the transmission. Latter is easier than body lift aftermarket.
Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer
Mine started life in a Fire Dept. in Georgia from what I can tell, then an owner in Florida. A previous owner had removed the auto ride shocks and put on Rancho 5000's that were worn out when I got it. I put on Bilstein 4600, they work very well. I also added Hellwig sway bars front and rear on my Suburan. It significantly reduced body roll and I believe provides better control when towing also. I've towed to most of the states in the lower 48 with this combination and it tows great, even with 20-30 mph cross winds. We traveled 5000+ miles out west this summer and it did great.
I've relaced a LOT of parts as it is an old vehicle. All coolers, lines, radiator, etc. Fuel pump, water pump, etc. I've also replaced the accelerator pedal assembly and more recently the throttle assembly as the electronic controls and sensors go bad eventually and it leaves you in low power mode. Low power mode will not move a loaded travel trailer and hardly move an empty vehicle. We nearly got stranded due to the throttle issue this summer on our last day. It eventually started working and we made it, only because I could re-set the Service Engine Soon light on the fly.
Good luck with yours, it pulls fine over the mountain passes if you keep your speed up and keep the RPM at the power peak (4200 RPM). I think we did 60+ over Vail pass as we were unhindered by traffic. If you slow down you'll never get your speed back up, we ended up in 1st gear approaching the Eisenhower tunnel due to traffic.
2014 Wildwood 26TBSS - Upgraded with 5200lb axles and larger Goodyear ST tires
2003 Chevrolet 2500 4x4 Suburban 8.1L 4.10's
![[image]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y134/Burbman/BigBlockTQ.jpg)