On the other side of the pond they call them "campervans," I believe, but that's far to obvious and straightforward to catch on here.
Jarlaxle wrote:
Can you actually cite the law in question? From ANY state?
JaxDad wrote:
I suspect that most people posting here are unaware that in every jurisdictions I've ever looked at, the RVIA or CSA Z-240 endorsement is required by law in order to stay in a campground in an RV.
In this litigious society we live in I doubt ANY park owner will knowingly 'look the other way' on a legally required safety issue. Sure you might get past a few parks management but the registration form always asks for the make of the RV so 'none' might stick out.
I suspect that most people posting here are unaware that in every jurisdictions I've ever looked at, the RVIA or CSA Z-240 endorsement is required by law in order to stay in a campground in an RV.
In this litigious society we live in I doubt ANY park owner will knowingly 'look the other way' on a legally required safety issue. Sure you might get past a few parks management but the registration form always asks for the make of the RV so 'none' might stick out.
Can you actually cite the law in question? From ANY state?
I've already cited several, it just seems nobody wants to read what's posted, they need to be spoon fed, but just as an example, bear in mind we're talking about National Standards which each State has adopted.
(SIC)
California Health and Safety Code, division 13, Part 2, Chapter 4 -Standards sets out;
"18027.3. (a) The Legislature finds and declares as follows:
(1) The American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) have adopted standards for the design and safety of recreational vehicles,......
(2) The ANSI A119.2 and A119.5 standards and the NFPA 1192 standards are designed to protect the health and safety of persons using recreational vehicles and park trailers.
(3) Compliance with those standards as required by this section may be enforced by any law enforcement authority having appropriate jurisdiction, pursuant to Section 18020.5, which makes it a crime to violate any provision of this part.
(h) It is unlawful for any person to do either of the following:
(1) Remove, or cause to be removed, a label, an insignia, or an insignia of approval affixed pursuant to this section.
(2) Alter or convert, or cause to be altered or converted, any recreational vehicle in a manner that is inconsistent with ANSI Standard No. A119.2 or A119.5 or the NFPA 1192 Standard on Recreational Vehicles when the recreational vehicle is used, occupied, sold, or offered for sale within this state."
So there you are, it is a crime in California to use or occupy an RV which does not meet NFPA 1192 standards, and bear a seal which substantiates its compliance and just as with any other illegal action, condoning, aiding, assisting or abetting such illegal activity is an illegal act unto itself.
Not nearly the same level of course, but legally no different than serving alcohol to an already drunk person, or giving a firearm to someone you know intends to use it to commit a crime.
Legally speaking, knowingly renting a campsite with electrical service to someone in an illegal RV and a fire resulting would likely mean the person renting was at least partly culpable.
Pages back this was mentioned, but it was apparently overlooked by most, an RV going down the road is a vehicle, possibly a motor vehicle (motorhome), but as soon as you park it off a public roadway, it become a 'habitable structure' with plumbing, gas and electrical systems that mean it MUST meet 'life safety standards' no different than a sticks & bricks does.
JaxDad wrote:
I suspect that most people posting here are unaware that in every jurisdictions I've ever looked at, the RVIA or CSA Z-240 endorsement is required by law in order to stay in a campground in an RV.
In this litigious society we live in I doubt ANY park owner will knowingly 'look the other way' on a legally required safety issue. Sure you might get past a few parks management but the registration form always asks for the make of the RV so 'none' might stick out.
I suspect that most people posting here are unaware that in every jurisdictions I've ever looked at, the RVIA or CSA Z-240 endorsement is required by law in order to stay in a campground in an RV.
In this litigious society we live in I doubt ANY park owner will knowingly 'look the other way' on a legally required safety issue. Sure you might get past a few parks management but the registration form always asks for the make of the RV so 'none' might stick out.
Again, the post in question. It was stated that: "in every jurisdictions I've ever looked at, the RVIA or CSA Z-240 endorsement is required by law in order to stay in a campground in an RV."
Please, enough of the regulations (NFPA, NEC, etc.) Unless those codes are incorporated into State law (yes, many states, including CA, have done that, but I don't know of any that state that an RV park or campground can not rent a space to a unit that doesn't have the sticker), they are unenforceable by regular law enforcement personnel.
"Legally speaking, knowingly renting a campsite with electrical service to someone in an illegal RV and a fire resulting would likely mean the person renting was at least partly culpable. " So, that means that it may be ill-advised to rent to such a unit, but that does not mean it is illegal.
Give us the applicable state or provincial law that requires a campground owner to check for an RVIA or CSA Z-240 sticker before renting a space, or admit that there actually is no such law, and, while it may be ill-advised, it is not illegal to rent to a non-RVIA on non-CSA Z-240 unit.
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mowermech wrote:
Unless those codes are incorporated into State law (yes, many states, including CA, have done that, but I don't know of any that state that an RV park or campground can not rent a space to a unit that doesn't have the sticker), they are unenforceable by regular law enforcement personnel.
JaxDad wrote:
I suspect that most people posting here are unaware that in every jurisdictions I've ever looked at, the RVIA or CSA Z-240 endorsement is required by law in order to stay in a campground in an RV.
In this litigious society we live in I doubt ANY park owner will knowingly 'look the other way' on a legally required safety issue. Sure you might get past a few parks management but the registration form always asks for the make of the RV so 'none' might stick out.
I suspect that most people posting here are unaware that in every jurisdictions I've ever looked at, the RVIA or CSA Z-240 endorsement is required by law in order to stay in a campground in an RV.
In this litigious society we live in I doubt ANY park owner will knowingly 'look the other way' on a legally required safety issue. Sure you might get past a few parks management but the registration form always asks for the make of the RV so 'none' might stick out.
Unless those codes are incorporated into State law (yes, many states, including CA, have done that, but I don't know of any that state that an RV park or campground can not rent a space to a unit that doesn't have the sticker), they are unenforceable by regular law enforcement personnel.
I presume you missed part of my earlier post;
"(3) Compliance with those standards as required by this section may be enforced by any law enforcement authority having appropriate jurisdiction, pursuant to Section 18020.5, which makes it a crime to violate any provision of this part."
"..... any law enforcement authority..."
"... which makes it a crime....."
OK, but where does it say that it is illegal to rent a space to an RV that does not have the sticker?
THAT, y'see, is the question! Nothing else, just that.
mowermech wrote:
"(3) Compliance with those standards as required by this section may be enforced by any law enforcement authority having appropriate jurisdiction, pursuant to Section 18020.5, which makes it a crime to violate any provision of this part."
OK, but where does it say that it is illegal to rent a space to an RV that does not have the sticker?
THAT, y'see, is the question! Nothing else, just that.
"(3) Compliance with those standards as required by this section may be enforced by any law enforcement authority having appropriate jurisdiction, pursuant to Section 18020.5, which makes it a crime to violate any provision of this part."
OK, but where does it say that it is illegal to rent a space to an RV that does not have the sticker?
THAT, y'see, is the question! Nothing else, just that.
That's a simple one, it took about 4 seconds on Google.
California Penal Code Section 31 provides in relevant part: “All persons concerned in the commission of a crime … whether they directly commit the act constituting the offense, or aid and abet in its commission, or, not being present, have advised and encouraged its commission…are principals in any crime so committed.”
So, those persons who are commonly referred to as 'accessories' or 'accomplices' as well as those who actually commit the crime can be prosecuted, tried and punished as criminals themselves in California.
Now please, ENOUGH, I'm getting weary of spoon-feeding people too lazy to do their own research or too stubborn to just read what's posted and accept the quoted citations as facts.
I'm sorry if you don't like the truth, but just like death and taxes, you're not going to change anything by being a disbeliever.
Once again, I find a twisted application of the law (IMO), and they would NOT want me on the jury to try that case!
I accept that you think you are right, but I still want to read a law that specifically forbids an RV park or campground from renting to any unit that does not have an RVIA sticker! "Accessory after the fact" is too much of a stretch even for my fertile imagination!
mowermech wrote:
So, if a campground rents a space to a home-built RV that does not have an RVIA sticker, (unless they have it inspected by a Code Enforcement Officer), they are guilty of "aiding and abetting" the crime of not complying with the code(s)? Is that what you are saying or implying?
Once again, I find a twisted application of the law (IMO), and they would NOT want me on the jury to try that case!
I accept that you think you are right, but I still want to read a law that specifically forbids an RV park or campground from renting to any unit that does not have an RVIA sticker! "Accessory after the fact" is too much of a stretch even for my fertile imagination!
So, if a campground rents a space to a home-built RV that does not have an RVIA sticker, (unless they have it inspected by a Code Enforcement Officer), they are guilty of "aiding and abetting" the crime of not complying with the code(s)? Is that what you are saying or implying?
Once again, I find a twisted application of the law (IMO), and they would NOT want me on the jury to try that case!
I accept that you think you are right, but I still want to read a law that specifically forbids an RV park or campground from renting to any unit that does not have an RVIA sticker! "Accessory after the fact" is too much of a stretch even for my fertile imagination!
And yet gas stations do not turn away diesel vehicles or inspect before pumping for missing DPF's, cats, egr, ...
Yeah, I know, "BUT, that's different!"