Been camping all my life. We recently sold our travel trailer that was sitting on some land we owned. We sold it with the land because I had no way to tow it hence why it sat at that land. Well, that was 4 months ago and since I bought a new half ton truck shortly after selling the land, we got the itch to buy a camper that we could actually go places with. So we went to the dealer with full intent on buying a mid 20's footer travel trailer. Well, thanks to a good salesman and my negotiating wife we got a great deal on a 2018 Arctic Wolf 265dbh8 fifth wheel. I've never owned a 5th wheel!!!!
My truck is a 2015 Chevy Silverado half ton, crew cab with 3.73 gears (10,900lb towing capacity)
I guess my biggest concern is towing this trailer with this truck. Any insight as to what I'm getting into?
Thanks
Matt
-2015 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L Max Trailering Package 3.73 Rear gearing
-2018 Arctic Wolf 265dbh8
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#
"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"
Also your pin weight empty of 1300 empty, by the time you add a hitch, load batteries, and fill the basement and water tanks will get hard on a payload of about 2100 in the truck.
Nice looking unit though.
Unloaded its 8300. Hitch weight is 1300.
Last time I weighed our gear we were under 1000lbs.
Vickie, Me, and "Scruffy" our dog make THREE
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If we were just taking shorter trips I would have probably kept the 1/2 ton.
2016 Silverado 2500HD Z71 CC Duramax
2018 Grand Design Reflection 311BHS
Figure 20 percent of the GVWR of the 5th wheel for hitch weight, since no one hauls an empty trailer.
Howard and Peggy
"Don't Panic"
webejpn wrote:
Why is my truck not enough?
Unloaded its 8300. Hitch weight is 1300.
Last time I weighed our gear we were under 1000lbs.
Why is my truck not enough?
Unloaded its 8300. Hitch weight is 1300.
Last time I weighed our gear we were under 1000lbs.
Pin weight of 1359
Hitch + ???
What type batteries weight = ???
Dresser and other items in Bed room weight= ???
Tools and supplies in basement = ????
Water tanks Forward of axles? = ???
You weigh = ???
DW weight = ???
Other stuff in truck will weigh = ???
Truck payload cap is somewhere between 2100 and 2300
You dont have a lot of wiggle room left
webejpn wrote:
Why is my truck not enough?
Unloaded its 8300. Hitch weight is 1300.
Last time I weighed our gear we were under 1000lbs.
Why is my truck not enough?
Unloaded its 8300. Hitch weight is 1300.
Last time I weighed our gear we were under 1000lbs.
advertised pin weight is 1300# DRY... ADD your 1000# = 2300# . . Noe add your hitch #, and your family . . NOW look on your door sticker and see what your allowable payload is?
Me-Her-the kids
2020 Ford F350 SD 6.7
2020 Redwood 3991RD Garnet
webejpn wrote:
My truck is a 2015 Chevy Silverado half ton, crew cab with 3.73 gears (10,900lb towing capacity)
I guess my biggest concern is towing this trailer with this truck. Any insight as to what I'm getting into?
Thanks
Matt
My truck is a 2015 Chevy Silverado half ton, crew cab with 3.73 gears (10,900lb towing capacity)
I guess my biggest concern is towing this trailer with this truck. Any insight as to what I'm getting into?
Thanks
Matt
Matt, what is the Payload rating on that half-ton? (That's a nice lightweight rig by the way)Still seems a bit much for your truck.
You'll have more peace of mind going to a 3/4 ton.
2006 Chevy 3500 Dually 6.6 Duramax Diesel & Allison Transmission
2010 Northshore 28RK by Dutchmen
Our first fifth wheel!!!
RAWR, based on new trucks on website. 3,950
Approximate weight of rear empty 2,100 - this is probably close but estimated
Max left to reach RAWR. 1,850
Pin weight per brochure 1,300
Battery and propane 100 usually not in brochure weight
Weight of 5th wheel hitch and rails 150
5th wheel storage is in front of trailer axles
and about 60-70% ends up on your
rear wheels - 1,000 X60% 600
Total est weight on rear axle 2,150
Looks like you would be about 300 lbs over your RAWR (and probably tire ratings if P tires) before you put any people or cargo in the truck. Some of my numbers are estimated but I think pretty close. You could take your truck to the CAT scales and see if the empty rear weight is less than my estimate.
That said, if you buy LT tires with enough capacity and add Timbrens or air bags you will probably be OK on shorter trips. It will take a toll on your vehicle. I wouldn't spend the money when it's not the real answer.
If you can afford it, it's time for a new 2500/250 truck of your choice. I would not pull your new 5th wheel with the current truck. It's just not safe IMHO. Good luck.
You would be an accident waiting to happen.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"
"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600
2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable
2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD
webejpn wrote:
Some background.
Been camping all my life. We recently sold our travel trailer that was sitting on some land we owned. We sold it with the land because I had no way to tow it hence why it sat at that land. Well, that was 4 months ago and since I bought a new half ton truck shortly after selling the land, we got the itch to buy a camper that we could actually go places with. So we went to the dealer with full intent on buying a mid 20's footer travel trailer. Well, thanks to a good salesman and my negotiating wife we got a great deal on a 2018 Arctic Wolf 265dbh8 fifth wheel. I've never owned a 5th wheel!!!!
My truck is a 2015 Chevy Silverado half ton, crew cab with 3.73 gears (10,900lb towing capacity)
I guess my biggest concern is towing this trailer with this truck. Any insight as to what I'm getting into?
Thanks
Matt
Some background.
Been camping all my life. We recently sold our travel trailer that was sitting on some land we owned. We sold it with the land because I had no way to tow it hence why it sat at that land. Well, that was 4 months ago and since I bought a new half ton truck shortly after selling the land, we got the itch to buy a camper that we could actually go places with. So we went to the dealer with full intent on buying a mid 20's footer travel trailer. Well, thanks to a good salesman and my negotiating wife we got a great deal on a 2018 Arctic Wolf 265dbh8 fifth wheel. I've never owned a 5th wheel!!!!
My truck is a 2015 Chevy Silverado half ton, crew cab with 3.73 gears (10,900lb towing capacity)
I guess my biggest concern is towing this trailer with this truck. Any insight as to what I'm getting into?
Thanks
Matt
Not =nearly= enough truck. Rule of thumb is 20% of the FW's weight is on the pin. You have to figure worst case at GVW, so 20% of 11,520 is right at 2300 lbs, and that's without a hitch, passengers and "stuff" that you want to carry in the truck. Way, WAY too much to safely carry with that truck. Personally, I'd rescind the deal based on false info provided by the stealer, or see if they have something at least 2k lighter that you could move to, IF you want to continue dealing with a liar.
Lyle
2022 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Denali Crew Cab 4x4 Duramax
B&W OEM Companion & Gooseneck Kit
2017 KZ Durango 1500 D277RLT
1936 John Deere Model A
International Flying Farmers 64 Year Member
Lots of huge trailers on half tons trucks around my parts, and I don't see them in the ditches, and the sky is not falling.
The weight police on this forum may sound like a broken record, but they really do know what they're talking about. When I moved from a half to a 3/4 truck, it made a huge difference, just towing my little 20ft trailer. Almost always, the bigger the truck the better.
2013 KZ Sportsmen Classic 200, 20 ft TT
2020 RAM 1500, 5.7 4x4, 8 speed
I won't weight police you like the rest but i must say i never saw a 1500 pulling a 5th wheel.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
ChuckV1 wrote:
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
I've never owned a fifth wheel, so do I understand correctly that they don't have their own brakes?
ChuckV1 wrote:
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
Truck brakes stop the truck (which includes pin weight), but the fiver axles have brakes rated to stop the same weight they can carry. No trailer should be pushing the tow vehicle, sure way to loose steering control. Proper brake controller setup and brake maintenance are critical. Sure, my 3500 has bigger brakes than a 1500 truck, but last time I checked the published UNLOADED stopping distances were about the same. So there is not excess braking capacity available for stopping the trailer.
* This post was edited 07/26/17 11:15am by Dayle1 *
Larry Day
Texas Baptist Men-Retiree Builders since '01
'13 Silverado 3500HD LT 2wd CCSB SRW, custom RKI bed
'19 Starcraft Telluride 292RLS
Rig Photos
GordonThree wrote:
I've never owned a fifth wheel, so do I understand correctly that they don't have their own brakes?
ChuckV1 wrote:
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
I've never owned a fifth wheel, so do I understand correctly that they don't have their own brakes?
They =do=! This is one of those things that people bandy about all the time who really don't understand how the system works. The truck should stop itself and the trailer should stop =itself=; you should feel little, or no, pushing by the trailer during braking. If you do, then something's wrong. That being said, in a worst case scenario, all bets are off, and that includes semi trucks hauling massive loads. Also, a bigger truck is =heavier= and provides more stability since there's more mass for the times that might occur when the tail wants to wag the dog.
Lyle
laknox wrote:
...Also, a bigger truck is =heavier= and provides more stability since there's more mass for the times that might occur when the tail wants to wag the dog.
Lyle
What? Tail wag the dog? Everyone says tails don't wag the dog with a 5th wheel. They tow so well you don't even know they're back there. Someone's got to get their story straight.
...Also, a bigger truck is =heavier= and provides more stability since there's more mass for the times that might occur when the tail wants to wag the dog.
Lyle
I look d my truck up online and it looks like payplod is just over 2,000
jarata1 wrote:
No way will it tow that plus you bought one of the heaviest brand 5th wheels one good thing is trade in is great on that model
No way will it tow that plus you bought one of the heaviest brand 5th wheels one good thing is trade in is great on that model
Please enlighten me on which rigs are lighter:
troubledwaters wrote:
laknox wrote:
...Also, a bigger truck is =heavier= and provides more stability since there's more mass for the times that might occur when the tail wants to wag the dog.
Lyle
What? Tail wag the dog? Everyone says tails don't wag the dog with a 5th wheel. They tow so well you don't even know they're back there. Someone's got to get their story straight....Also, a bigger truck is =heavier= and provides more stability since there's more mass for the times that might occur when the tail wants to wag the dog.
Lyle
And a Toyota Tundra can tow the space shuttle. 272,000 lbs.
And if we can just get the police to close all the roads where we want to go, and put rolling cops out as barricades all along the route, we can tow that too.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
Until then, most of us have to settle for what the engineers were able to qualify as being the allowable capacities.
You guys aren't making it easy in me to decide if I need to figure out a way to abort this deal before I sign papers tomorrow. They're in the process of putting the hitch on right now.
kerrlakeRoo wrote:
And a Toyota Tundra can tow the space shuttle. 272,000 lbs.
And if we can just get the police to close all the roads where we want to go, and put rolling cops out as barricades all along the route, we can tow that too.
Until then, most of us have to settle for what the engineers were able to qualify as being the allowable capacities.
Where in my post do you see anything that talks about going over the trucks ratings? And a Toyota Tundra can tow the space shuttle. 272,000 lbs.
And if we can just get the police to close all the roads where we want to go, and put rolling cops out as barricades all along the route, we can tow that too.
Until then, most of us have to settle for what the engineers were able to qualify as being the allowable capacities.
The only thing I said is people claim 5th wheels don't wag the dog. They tow like they're not even back there.
What you end up doing is certainly your business, but you came on here for advice and got it.
Without knowing all the actual weights of loaded truck, and loaded FW, I won't say it will not work. Also, I do see many towing heavier FWs, with lesser trucks than yours. Yes, they are way over weight, and it is obvious. I think you need to gather all weight info, and decide yourself, if you are okay towing with what you have.
Hope it works for you,
Jerry
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webejpn wrote:
Well I have no one personally to rely on in this category other than the folks in this forum.
You guys aren't making it easy in me to decide if I need to figure out a way to abort this deal before I sign papers tomorrow. They're in the process of putting the hitch on right now.
Well I have no one personally to rely on in this category other than the folks in this forum.
You guys aren't making it easy in me to decide if I need to figure out a way to abort this deal before I sign papers tomorrow. They're in the process of putting the hitch on right now.
Don't do it
troubledwaters wrote:
The only thing I said is people claim 5th wheels don't wag the dog. They tow like they're not even back there.
kerrlakeRoo wrote:
And a Toyota Tundra can tow the space shuttle. 272,000 lbs.
And if we can just get the police to close all the roads where we want to go, and put rolling cops out as barricades all along the route, we can tow that too.
Until then, most of us have to settle for what the engineers were able to qualify as being the allowable capacities.
Where in my post do you see anything that talks about going over the trucks ratings? And a Toyota Tundra can tow the space shuttle. 272,000 lbs.
And if we can just get the police to close all the roads where we want to go, and put rolling cops out as barricades all along the route, we can tow that too.
Until then, most of us have to settle for what the engineers were able to qualify as being the allowable capacities.
The only thing I said is people claim 5th wheels don't wag the dog. They tow like they're not even back there.
I was agreeing with you on mixed stories, hence the eye roll above.
2002 Chevy DuraMax
2014 jayco eagle
Two Pekingese dogs
donn0128 wrote:
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Did he say the dealer said he could tow the fifth wheel trailer with half ton truck?
2006 Coachman Adrenaline 228FB
2012 Can Am Commander XT 1000
Sprink-Fitter wrote:
Did he say the dealer said he could tow the fifth wheel trailer with half ton truck?
donn0128 wrote:
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Did he say the dealer said he could tow the fifth wheel trailer with half ton truck?
Forest Rivers brochure advertises that unit as being for "light duty" trucks. Likely the dealers folks were running with that.
NOW 2017 Leprechaun 260ds
2005 Forrest River Cardinal 29rkle FW
1998 Lance 980 11'3" TC
2017 CHEVY 3500 SRW 6.0
B@W turnover ball @ companion Hitch
Honda eu3000 generator mounted on cargo rack
Crestliner 1850 Fish Ski boat mostly fishing now!
webejpn wrote:
Well I have no one personally to rely on in this category other than the folks in this forum.
You guys aren't making it easy in me to decide if I need to figure out a way to abort this deal before I sign papers tomorrow. They're in the process of putting the hitch on right now.
Well I have no one personally to rely on in this category other than the folks in this forum.
You guys aren't making it easy in me to decide if I need to figure out a way to abort this deal before I sign papers tomorrow. They're in the process of putting the hitch on right now.
I would at least stop the deal until you thoroughly understand how to calculate how much weight you will be putting on your truck. And understand how much weight your truck is designed to carry.
You are in the right place to get a bunch of opinions from some very qualified "experts". I would trust these guy's opinions over a salesman.
I would suggest you get at lease a 2500 series truck, or pick out a travel trailer. A travel trailer will put much less weight on the truck.
You are not the first person to be fooled by a salesman. I'm speaking from personal experience. Good luck with your decision.
2013 Arctic Fox 27-5L
2014 Ram 3500 6.7L CTD, Crew Cab
Nancy and Doug
2015 KZ Durango 325RL FW
2016 6.7 CTD 2500 BIG HORN MEGA CAB
2013 Forest River 3001W Windjammer
Equilizer Hitch
Honda EU2000
"I have this plan to live forever; so far my plan is working"
I have not seen were you posted back your RAWR, Payload, and GVWR from the door stickers on the drivers seat side door. My guess is even lightly loaded you will not have fun, carrying and towing that 5er. You didn't mention engine size, and tire capacity.
webejpn wrote:
So someone said this is a heavy half ton fifth wheel. I'd be interested to hear which other ones are lighter?
I look d my truck up online and it looks like payplod is just over 2,000
So someone said this is a heavy half ton fifth wheel. I'd be interested to hear which other ones are lighter?
I look d my truck up online and it looks like payplod is just over 2,000
You need to look at the sticker on the drivers side door post, it will have tire and payload numbers. Those numbers are for THAT truck as it roll edmoff the assembly line, the on line number is for a stripper model with no options
How do I know this? Been there and done it and wasted alot of money trying to make a princess out of a frog. What ever you do good luck and enjoy your journeys.
1998 Holiday Rambler Imperial 40 ft.
Dennis and Marcie and Pup the Jack Russell
rhagfo wrote:
You need to look at the sticker on the drivers side door post, it will have tire and payload numbers. Those numbers are for THAT truck as it roll edmoff the assembly line, the on line number is for a stripper model with no options
webejpn wrote:
So someone said this is a heavy half ton fifth wheel. I'd be interested to hear which other ones are lighter?
I look d my truck up online and it looks like payplod is just over 2,000
So someone said this is a heavy half ton fifth wheel. I'd be interested to hear which other ones are lighter?
I look d my truck up online and it looks like payplod is just over 2,000
You need to look at the sticker on the drivers side door post, it will have tire and payload numbers. Those numbers are for THAT truck as it roll edmoff the assembly line, the on line number is for a stripper model with no options
He mentions 3.73 gears and a 2000 lb payload in his posts which can come from the 1500 GM with the NHT package with 7600 gvwr and 4300 RAWR/P tires and possible the 420hp/460 torque 6.2 engine.
If thats the case the truck will be carrying a max load if not over on the trucks rear axle.
All 1/2 ton trucks can tow a 5th wheel trailer. Size of the trailer depends on the trucks weight specs.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides
Dayle1 wrote:
Truck brakes stop the truck (which includes pin weight), but the fiver axles have brakes rated to stop the same weight they can carry. No trailer should be pushing the tow vehicle, sure way to loose steering control. Proper brake controller setup and brake maintenance are critical. Sure, my 3500 has bigger brakes than a 1500 truck, but last time I checked the published UNLOADED stopping distances were about the same. So there is not excess braking capacity available for stopping the trailer.
ChuckV1 wrote:
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
I'm not going to go over weights, it's been done as you have read a number of times, all I will say is think about safety.
At 45 or 50mpg can you stop your truck an trailer within safe limits, ie think about the weight that's pushing you down the road, then someone brakes in front of you, can you stop before hitting them ...
That is why people move up to bigger TV, not only to handle the weight but the stopping power, it's for the safety of your family along with others on the HWY . Can your truck pull the trailer, yes without a problem, but can it stop your trailer in an emergency stop is the real ????
Safe travels
Truck brakes stop the truck (which includes pin weight), but the fiver axles have brakes rated to stop the same weight they can carry. No trailer should be pushing the tow vehicle, sure way to loose steering control. Proper brake controller setup and brake maintenance are critical. Sure, my 3500 has bigger brakes than a 1500 truck, but last time I checked the published UNLOADED stopping distances were about the same. So there is not excess braking capacity available for stopping the trailer.
You are correct, truck brakaes stop the truck an trailer brakes stop the trailer, but if you loose the trailer brakes for some reason then you need a larger truck with bigger brakes to slow you down ... If you drive in the mid west there is only rolling hills for the most part, but if you drive in the western United States you would understand you need all the brakes you can get along with an engine brake if possible ... I've seen to many TT and 5th wheel along side of the road with smoking brakes from coming off a 7 percent grade that was 8 or 9 miles long an know that the driver may have had to change his pants because he was scared spit-less when he lost all of his brakes ...
I will say it point blank, a 1/2 ton pickup no matter what brand will not pull a 5th wheel no matter what the salesman states, it not safe, it will be hard on the truck an you if you go ahead with it...
It's just plan not safe any way you look at it ....
I wish Safe travels but not with a 1/2 pickup trade up to a 3/4 ton
* This post was edited 07/26/17 08:34pm by ChuckV1 *
Congrats and good luck.
Mike
Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
2017 Ram 3500 CTD (aka FRAM)
2019 GrandDesign Reflection 367BHS
kerrlakeRoo wrote:
Forest Rivers brochure advertises that unit as being for "light duty" trucks. Likely the dealers folks were running with that.
Sprink-Fitter wrote:
Did he say the dealer said he could tow the fifth wheel trailer with half ton truck?
donn0128 wrote:
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Did he say the dealer said he could tow the fifth wheel trailer with half ton truck?
Forest Rivers brochure advertises that unit as being for "light duty" trucks. Likely the dealers folks were running with that.
The term "light duty" is quite subjective. My Ram 3500 DRW has a giant emblem on the side that says "HEAVY DUTY", but in terms of trucks, its actually classified as "light duty". My Aisin transmission is advertised as being a "true medium-duty transmission". So why would you put a medium duty trans in my "heavy duty" truck? Oh the conjecture...
If FR says "1/2 ton towable", well that means quite a bit more. But they didn't. Since "light-duty" is defined as everything from a compact truck to a 1-ton, they're pretty well covered.
Duramax + Grand Design 5er + B & W Companion
SBGTF
troubledwaters wrote:
laknox wrote:
...Also, a bigger truck is =heavier= and provides more stability since there's more mass for the times that might occur when the tail wants to wag the dog.
Lyle
What? Tail wag the dog? Everyone says tails don't wag the dog with a 5th wheel. They tow so well you don't even know they're back there. Someone's got to get their story straight....Also, a bigger truck is =heavier= and provides more stability since there's more mass for the times that might occur when the tail wants to wag the dog.
Lyle
Then you've never had your trailer connection go bad and lose the brakes on your trailer. Or had to stop on gravel/sand. Your trailer =will= push you around, even with working brakes. Or had a nasty crosswind hit you. Plenty of videos on YT with FW wrecks, especially from wind.
Lyle
webejpn wrote:
So someone said this is a heavy half ton fifth wheel. I'd be interested to hear which other ones are lighter?
I look d my truck up online and it looks like payload is just over 2,000
So someone said this is a heavy half ton fifth wheel. I'd be interested to hear which other ones are lighter?
I look d my truck up online and it looks like payload is just over 2,000
I've a Forest River Signature Ultralight that weighs 7900 lbs dry. I tried towing it with a 1996 12-valve Dodge Cummins and felt that was under powered. As has been mentioned, once you add water, propane, batteries, etc. you're rolling with significant weight over the dry weight.
I now tow it with a 6.7L one ton Cummins because the wife did not feel safe in the old rig.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/grin.gif "grin")
PZ
TV - 2017 F350 CCSB SRW Platinum 6.7 + 5er - 2021 Grand Design Reflection 311 BHS + B&W Companion
On Order - 2022 F350 CCSB SRW Platinum 6.7
GVWR 7600
GAWR FRT 3950
GAWR RR 4300
Total combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1910
Tire load range E
ChuckV1 wrote:
You are correct, truck brakaes stop the truck an trailer brakes stop the trailer, but if you loose the trailer brakes for some reason then you need a larger truck with bigger brakes to slow you down ... If you drive in the mid west there is only rolling hills for the most part, but if you drive in the western United States you would understand you need all the brakes you can get along with an engine brake if possible ...
I will say it point blank, a 1/2 ton pickup no matter what brand will not pull a 5th wheel no matter what the salesman states, it not safe, it will be hard on the truck an you if you go ahead with it...
It's just plan not safe any way you look at it ....
I wish Safe travels but not with a 1/2 pickup trade up to a 3/4 ton
You are correct, truck brakaes stop the truck an trailer brakes stop the trailer, but if you loose the trailer brakes for some reason then you need a larger truck with bigger brakes to slow you down ... If you drive in the mid west there is only rolling hills for the most part, but if you drive in the western United States you would understand you need all the brakes you can get along with an engine brake if possible ...
I will say it point blank, a 1/2 ton pickup no matter what brand will not pull a 5th wheel no matter what the salesman states, it not safe, it will be hard on the truck an you if you go ahead with it...
It's just plan not safe any way you look at it ....
I wish Safe travels but not with a 1/2 pickup trade up to a 3/4 ton
If you loose the trailer brakes, then the only truck that can handle the added braking requirement is one that has a GVWR in excess of the actual loaded weight of truck AND trailer. Not practical, my 11,400 lb GVWR truck could only handle a loaded trailer weight of 3300 lbs. None of us have a truck and trailer combo like you suggest. Which is something much more restrictive that the truck manufacturer's rated GCWR.
While I use a 1 ton now, I have used a 1/2 ton for towing 5th wheels in the past. 14 years, 2 trucks, 3 different 5th wheels and never felt unsafe in any western state. I have certainly towed fifth wheels more miles with a 1/2 ton than I have with a 1 ton.
But having said that, the OP's planned setup is too much IF he will exceed the truck's GCWR or rear GAWR.
Tow Vehicle:
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500
5.3L engine
6.5ft bed
Crew Cab
3.73 Rear axle gearing
Payload = 1910lb
Brake controller built in
Tires are load rating E w/ 3000lb capacity
GVWR = 7600lb
GAWR FRT = 3950lb
GAWR RR = 4300lb
GCWR = 16,700lb
Curb weight (straight from GM based on my vin#) = 5359lb
Hitch:
Curt A16 = 158lb
5th Wheel:
2018 Arctic Wolf 265dbh8
GVWR = 11519lb
Hitch Weight = 1359lb
UVW = 8284lb
CCC = 3235lb
(2) full 20lb propane tanks = 64lbs
Interstate battery (don't recall specific model) = 45lbs
Occupants:
3 in truck = 600lbs
Misc.:
-I never haul with loaded tanks (fresh, grey or black)
If i think of anything else, i'll add/update this list.
webejpn wrote:
Info from my truck tag:
GVWR 7600
GAWR FRT 3950
GAWR RR 4300
Total combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1910
Tire load range E
Info from my truck tag:
GVWR 7600
GAWR FRT 3950
GAWR RR 4300
Total combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1910
Tire load range E
That info is impressive for a 1/2 ton truck! I think that the loaded pin weight, plus whatever else goes in the truck, may put you a little over on payload. With 4,300 RAWR you should be close. E-rated tires are great. You didn't mention what hitch being installed. If it is a heavy auto slider, that is a lot of wt.
IMHO, your truck/trailer could be used, if you can stay under RAWR, with both truck and trailer loaded to camp.
Your FW GVWR with large CCC, tells me that you have 5,200 lb axles under the FW. That is a good thing too, as not only more trailer capacity, but much larger brake drums/shoes.
If you are comfortable with the towing experience, feel safe, it may work for you. While a HD truck would be a better tool for the job for most, everyones comfort zone is not the same
Didn't see the Curt hitch, before I posted. That is not so heavy.
Good luck,
Jerry
* This post was edited 07/27/17 12:59pm by MFL *
I love towing mine with this incapable half ton
2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost SuperCab Max Tow, 2084# Payload, 11,300# Tow,
Timbrens, PullRite SuperGlide 2700 15K
2013 KZ Durango 2857
Lyle
MFL wrote:
That info is impressive for a 1/2 ton truck! I think that the loaded pin weight, plus whatever else goes in the truck, may put you a little over on payload. With 4,300 RAWR you should be close. E-rated tires are great. You didn't mention what hitch being installed. If it is a heavy auto slider, that is a lot of wt.
IMHO, your truck/trailer could be used, if you can stay under RAWR, with both truck and trailer loaded to camp.
Your FW GVWR with large CCC, tells me that you have 5,200 lb axles under the FW. That is a good thing too, as not only more trailer capacity, but much larger brake drums/shoes.
If you are comfortable with the towing experience, feel safe, it may work for you. While a HD truck would be a better tool for the job for most, everyones comfort zone is not the same
Didn't see the Curt hitch, before I posted. That is not so heavy.
Good luck,
Jerry
webejpn wrote:
Info from my truck tag:
GVWR 7600
GAWR FRT 3950
GAWR RR 4300
Total combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1910
Tire load range E
Info from my truck tag:
GVWR 7600
GAWR FRT 3950
GAWR RR 4300
Total combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1910
Tire load range E
That info is impressive for a 1/2 ton truck! I think that the loaded pin weight, plus whatever else goes in the truck, may put you a little over on payload. With 4,300 RAWR you should be close. E-rated tires are great. You didn't mention what hitch being installed. If it is a heavy auto slider, that is a lot of wt.
IMHO, your truck/trailer could be used, if you can stay under RAWR, with both truck and trailer loaded to camp.
Your FW GVWR with large CCC, tells me that you have 5,200 lb axles under the FW. That is a good thing too, as not only more trailer capacity, but much larger brake drums/shoes.
If you are comfortable with the towing experience, feel safe, it may work for you. While a HD truck would be a better tool for the job for most, everyones comfort zone is not the same
Didn't see the Curt hitch, before I posted. That is not so heavy.
Good luck,
Jerry
Jerry,
Yes, my truck has the Max Trailering Package which was a must when i was looking to purchase.
9.76 REAR AXLE * 3.73 REAR AXLE RATIO * TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER * ENHANCED COOLING RADIATOR * REVISED SHOCK TUNING * HEAVIER DUTY REAR SPRINGS AND INCREASED RGAWR * TRAILERING EQUIPMENT PKG INCL AUTO LOCKING REAR DIFFERENTIAL * WHEELS, 18" BRIGHT MACHINED.
2112 wrote:
Pack light and enjoy your trailer. Come back and tell us how it worked out.
I love towing mine with this incapable half ton
Pack light and enjoy your trailer. Come back and tell us how it worked out.
I love towing mine with this incapable half ton
This is the issue with always only looking at the 5ers GVWR. This one has a 3,000+ payload, that is a lot!!! Likely as OP stated only lost about 1,000# it does look close and possibly doable.
rhagfo wrote:
This is the issue with always only looking at the 5ers GVWR. This one has a 3,000+ payload, that is a lot!!! Likely as OP stated only lost about 1,000# it does look close and possibly doable.
2112 wrote:
Pack light and enjoy your trailer. Come back and tell us how it worked out.
I love towing mine with this incapable half ton
Pack light and enjoy your trailer. Come back and tell us how it worked out.
I love towing mine with this incapable half ton
This is the issue with always only looking at the 5ers GVWR. This one has a 3,000+ payload, that is a lot!!! Likely as OP stated only lost about 1,000# it does look close and possibly doable.
Yes, Russ, the OP is not likely going to put 3,200 lbs of stuff in that FW, obviously not full timing. Many so called 1/2 ton towable FWs only have 4,400 lb axles, with much less CCC. I think OPs trailer has 5,200 lb axles, which is great! I think coming from towing a large TT, the OP is going to love the way his truck handles that FW. Only thing I would not like is always having to be cautious of not overloading, taking everything I want along, including a full fresh tank.
IMO, the OP has one of the best 1/2 tons out there for this trailer. I don't think it will feel unsafe, or break in the middle of the road. I think ratings are important, but so is a good driver, with towing experience. If at or near RAWR, I would do this.
Jerry
webejpn wrote:
Since this discussion has gone longer than i expected, i thought i should recap the factual items:
Curb weight (straight from GM based on my vin#) = 5359lb
Since this discussion has gone longer than i expected, i thought i should recap the factual items:
Curb weight (straight from GM based on my vin#) = 5359lb
GM should also have the curb weight for each axle. Other that occupants, most of the added weight will be on the rear axle. Then you can get a good idea what the loaded rear axle weight will be vs. rear GAWR.
Being slightly over on the truck's GVWR is not nearly as serious as exceeding the axle rating. There are many diesel 3/4 trucks with under 10k lb GVWRs that are being exceeded every day.
I went to the dealership last night to make things final. I straight out told them what i had learned on here, all the folks i called yesterday (GM, Forrest River direct, couple local GM dealers, etc.). They gave me absolutely no hassle that if i wanted to call the deal off, i could without any implications. But they also gave me the opportunity to hitch it up and take it for a spin. If i didn't feel good about the way it dropped my truck or how it handled, again, i could kill the deal. So we hooked her up....boy, if i get nothing out of this other than seeing the ease and simplicity of hooking up a 5'ver.....DANG THAT WAS EASY!!!! I can see how this is a marriage saver!!
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space. Took her out for a spin and she handled like a champ. Now remember, all i have to compare to is TT and flat trailers with wheelers on them.
So needless to say, i felt comfortable and confident with proceeding with the deal.
To the folks that said, go ahead and try it and see what YOU think...thanks for your encouragement.
For the naysayers...stay tuned to my future postings to see how it pans out and if i fail miserably feel free to use me as the "I told you so.." example
webejpn wrote:
I appreciate everyone's feedback/opinions on this matter. I will be the first to admit that unlike every other single purchase i make, i did not research the snot out of it (my wife hates that i do this).
I went to the dealership last night to make things final. I straight out told them what i had learned on here, all the folks i called yesterday (GM, Forrest River direct, couple local GM dealers, etc.). They gave me absolutely no hassle that if i wanted to call the deal off, i could without any implications. But they also gave me the opportunity to hitch it up and take it for a spin. If i didn't feel good about the way it dropped my truck or how it handled, again, i could kill the deal. So we hooked her up....boy, if i get nothing out of this other than seeing the ease and simplicity of hooking up a 5'ver.....DANG THAT WAS EASY!!!! I can see how this is a marriage saver!!
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space. Took her out for a spin and she handled like a champ. Now remember, all i have to compare to is TT and flat trailers with wheelers on them.
So needless to say, i felt comfortable and confident with proceeding with the deal.
To the folks that said, go ahead and try it and see what YOU think...thanks for your encouragement.
For the naysayers...stay tuned to my future postings to see how it pans out and if i fail miserably feel free to use me as the "I told you so.." example
I appreciate everyone's feedback/opinions on this matter. I will be the first to admit that unlike every other single purchase i make, i did not research the snot out of it (my wife hates that i do this).
I went to the dealership last night to make things final. I straight out told them what i had learned on here, all the folks i called yesterday (GM, Forrest River direct, couple local GM dealers, etc.). They gave me absolutely no hassle that if i wanted to call the deal off, i could without any implications. But they also gave me the opportunity to hitch it up and take it for a spin. If i didn't feel good about the way it dropped my truck or how it handled, again, i could kill the deal. So we hooked her up....boy, if i get nothing out of this other than seeing the ease and simplicity of hooking up a 5'ver.....DANG THAT WAS EASY!!!! I can see how this is a marriage saver!!
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space. Took her out for a spin and she handled like a champ. Now remember, all i have to compare to is TT and flat trailers with wheelers on them.
So needless to say, i felt comfortable and confident with proceeding with the deal.
To the folks that said, go ahead and try it and see what YOU think...thanks for your encouragement.
For the naysayers...stay tuned to my future postings to see how it pans out and if i fail miserably feel free to use me as the "I told you so.." example
I think that everyone including the "naysayers" wish you luck. Please keep us updated, especially when you load up the and take your first trip.
I also hope you give a review of the 5th wheel..... the good, the bad and the ugly.
webejpn wrote:
I appreciate everyone's feedback/opinions on this matter. I will be the first to admit that unlike every other single purchase i make, i did not research the snot out of it (my wife hates that i do this).
I went to the dealership last night to make things final. I straight out told them what i had learned on here, all the folks i called yesterday (GM, Forrest River direct, couple local GM dealers, etc.). They gave me absolutely no hassle that if i wanted to call the deal off, i could without any implications. But they also gave me the opportunity to hitch it up and take it for a spin. If i didn't feel good about the way it dropped my truck or how it handled, again, i could kill the deal. So we hooked her up....boy, if i get nothing out of this other than seeing the ease and simplicity of hooking up a 5'ver.....DANG THAT WAS EASY!!!! I can see how this is a marriage saver!!
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space. Took her out for a spin and she handled like a champ. Now remember, all i have to compare to is TT and flat trailers with wheelers on them.
So needless to say, i felt comfortable and confident with proceeding with the deal.
To the folks that said, go ahead and try it and see what YOU think...thanks for your encouragement.
For the naysayers...stay tuned to my future postings to see how it pans out and if i fail miserably feel free to use me as the "I told you so.." example
I appreciate everyone's feedback/opinions on this matter. I will be the first to admit that unlike every other single purchase i make, i did not research the snot out of it (my wife hates that i do this).
I went to the dealership last night to make things final. I straight out told them what i had learned on here, all the folks i called yesterday (GM, Forrest River direct, couple local GM dealers, etc.). They gave me absolutely no hassle that if i wanted to call the deal off, i could without any implications. But they also gave me the opportunity to hitch it up and take it for a spin. If i didn't feel good about the way it dropped my truck or how it handled, again, i could kill the deal. So we hooked her up....boy, if i get nothing out of this other than seeing the ease and simplicity of hooking up a 5'ver.....DANG THAT WAS EASY!!!! I can see how this is a marriage saver!!
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space. Took her out for a spin and she handled like a champ. Now remember, all i have to compare to is TT and flat trailers with wheelers on them.
So needless to say, i felt comfortable and confident with proceeding with the deal.
To the folks that said, go ahead and try it and see what YOU think...thanks for your encouragement.
For the naysayers...stay tuned to my future postings to see how it pans out and if i fail miserably feel free to use me as the "I told you so.." example
Glad you liked it and I hope it works out for you. Remember that it was =empty=, so how it handles, and what it does to your truck will be very different once you start putting stuff in it. 3" squat, while not excessive, is almost sure to get you flashed at night, as that'll for sure raise your headlights' focal point, so be aware of that. I only squat about 2" with my D'max and I occasionally get flashed. I simply try and never tow after dark, but sometimes it simply can't be helped. Good luck and have fun!
Lyle
webejpn wrote:
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3".
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3".
With that much drop you may want air bags, depends on how much suspension travel is remaining. Remember even though the dry pin is like 16%, the gear you add will be front heavy. That floorplan has minimal rear storage and lots of forward storage. You could easily have 30% of the added weight show up as pin weight. So the rear will drop even more.
Be safe.
Thanks!
Jeremiah
TV-2022 Silverado 2WD
TT - Zinger 270BH
WD Hitch- HaulMaster 1,000 lb Round Bar
Dual Friction bar sway control
It’s Kind of Fun to do the Impossible
~Walt Disney~
webejpn wrote:
I appreciate everyone's feedback/opinions on this matter. I will be the first to admit that unlike every other single purchase i make, i did not research the snot out of it (my wife hates that i do this).
I went to the dealership last night to make things final. I straight out told them what i had learned on here, all the folks i called yesterday (GM, Forrest River direct, couple local GM dealers, etc.). They gave me absolutely no hassle that if i wanted to call the deal off, i could without any implications. But they also gave me the opportunity to hitch it up and take it for a spin. If i didn't feel good about the way it dropped my truck or how it handled, again, i could kill the deal. So we hooked her up....boy, if i get nothing out of this other than seeing the ease and simplicity of hooking up a 5'ver.....DANG THAT WAS EASY!!!! I can see how this is a marriage saver!!
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space. Took her out for a spin and she handled like a champ. Now remember, all i have to compare to is TT and flat trailers with wheelers on them.
So needless to say, i felt comfortable and confident with proceeding with the deal.
To the folks that said, go ahead and try it and see what YOU think...thanks for your encouragement.
For the naysayers...stay tuned to my future postings to see how it pans out and if i fail miserably feel free to use me as the "I told you so.." example
I appreciate everyone's feedback/opinions on this matter. I will be the first to admit that unlike every other single purchase i make, i did not research the snot out of it (my wife hates that i do this).
I went to the dealership last night to make things final. I straight out told them what i had learned on here, all the folks i called yesterday (GM, Forrest River direct, couple local GM dealers, etc.). They gave me absolutely no hassle that if i wanted to call the deal off, i could without any implications. But they also gave me the opportunity to hitch it up and take it for a spin. If i didn't feel good about the way it dropped my truck or how it handled, again, i could kill the deal. So we hooked her up....boy, if i get nothing out of this other than seeing the ease and simplicity of hooking up a 5'ver.....DANG THAT WAS EASY!!!! I can see how this is a marriage saver!!
Anyway, i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space. Took her out for a spin and she handled like a champ. Now remember, all i have to compare to is TT and flat trailers with wheelers on them.
So needless to say, i felt comfortable and confident with proceeding with the deal.
To the folks that said, go ahead and try it and see what YOU think...thanks for your encouragement.
For the naysayers...stay tuned to my future postings to see how it pans out and if i fail miserably feel free to use me as the "I told you so.." example
Then do it obviously your not listening and made up your mind GOOD LUCK
webejpn wrote:
Please enlighten me on which rigs are lighter:
jarata1 wrote:
No way will it tow that plus you bought one of the heaviest brand 5th wheels one good thing is trade in is great on that model
No way will it tow that plus you bought one of the heaviest brand 5th wheels one good thing is trade in is great on that model
Please enlighten me on which rigs are lighter:
Artic fox are made for year round camping that is why they are mostly in the colder climates.You can't find them out here in the east I wish you could I would by one.Most all the other 5th wheels in the same length will be lighter
* This post was edited 07/28/17 05:02pm by an administrator/moderator *
* This post was edited 07/28/17 05:02pm by an administrator/moderator *
kerrlakeRoo wrote:
Forest Rivers brochure advertises that unit as being for "light duty" trucks. Likely the dealers folks were running with that.
Sprink-Fitter wrote:
Did he say the dealer said he could tow the fifth wheel trailer with half ton truck?
donn0128 wrote:
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Too much for the truck. Your first mistake is listening to dealers.
Did he say the dealer said he could tow the fifth wheel trailer with half ton truck?
Forest Rivers brochure advertises that unit as being for "light duty" trucks. Likely the dealers folks were running with that.
What I'm getting at is the OP never said "the dealer said I could tow this"
I have used Timbrens for years. I do not know how much sag I would have without them because the Timbens were installed before I bought the FW. I moved them over from my old truck prior to trade.
webejpn wrote:
. . . i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space.
Without knowing how much suspension travel you have empty, 3" of drop may or may not be a good thing. On some trucks 3" of squat/sag is enough to cause the axle bump stops to be in constant contact with the axle housing.. . . i was surprised that as my truck sat as is, she only dropped about 3". So it actually leveled my truck out perfectly in terms of front to rear wheel well space.
Kudos for all the research you did. Unfortunately, the one thing you didn't check/research prior to purchase, which is critical, were your realworld axle weights (i.e., CAT scale ticket). Granted, how well it drives and the amount of squat/rear end sag, may be a good subjective warm and fuzzy. However, for those who put some credence or trust in the manufacturer's ratings, the objective results of a CAT scale ticket easily trump any subjective observation.
YMMV.
1/4 - 1/2 ton trucks are great to fetch the groserys. move a row boat.
want to tow something.
get at a min 3/4 ton supper duty with a diesel set up from the factory for towing.
.
2006 F250 4X4 auto 6.0 short bed
2001 sunnybrook 24 ft
1984 cj7 built up a bit
kg6tgu
never too many toys, just not enought room to keep them
one dog who belives she is the master. rip 12 12 2007
12 loving years and loyal to the end.
just out having fun
Geeze, it goes without saying it needs to be a "Super Duty".
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")