Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Plastic tote Portable 2000W Generator quieting box

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Topic: Plastic tote Portable 2000W Generator quieting box

Posted By: cfcubed on 06/08/17 04:10am

Hi, first post to this forum. Having tent camped, then used a pop-up for a decade, find ourselves now towing a 27ft Airstream (which was to be a sailboat then an R-Pod [emoticon]

Anyway now have occasional need for small generator to charge batteries during boondock trips more than a couple/few days.

Having gleaned info for years from this forum (& others) via web search hits thought I'd try to give something useful back.

Anyway, I found myself wanting to quiet down my already quiet Yamaha EF2000is. This after camping in a couple/few parks/campgrounds allowing generators but with mostly tent campers OR rules allowing only onboard generators. After lots of searching for a lightweight, portable, inexpensive solution decided there wasn't any ready-made & would have to make my own. This project could probably be adapted/modded for use with other 2000W class generators like Honda EU2000i & others.

See also UPDATE 06/30/17 09:23am post I built it in fall of 2015 have used it a few times since and been quite happy with the way its been working so felt it may be good & proven enough to document. I did so in Instructables "EF2000is Portable Generator Sound Deadening Enclosure Box" project (link removed). Here's a few pictures:

[image]

Stored for travel:
[image]

There's been a few somewhat similar projects around but I didn't find any like this one with powered ventilation, automobile hood adhesive-backed insulation, easy to tote around, etc. (<<< UPDATE: Oops, at least at this point in the size/cost/weight/effort/efficacy continuum - Thanks SoundGuy & others!) Maybe this will be helpful to others considering this sort of thing.

Chris

Standard disclaimers apply, you build this project at your own risk and take full responsibility for any consequences. This project directly violates product warnings and warranties and introduces possibly flammable materials in close proximity to the generator.

* This post was last edited 06/30/17 08:17am by cfcubed *

Posted By: SoundGuy on 06/08/17 04:48am

cfcubed wrote:

There's been a few somewhat similar projects around but I didn't find any like this one with powered ventilation, automobile hood adhesive-backed insulation, easy to tote around, etc.

Mine's been online for several years now, pics & videos start here ... based on a very effective custom EU1000i quiet box designed by rv.net member jauguston back in 2006.

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Posted By: cfcubed on 06/08/17 05:02am

Oops, right you are... Sorry, don't know how I missed those. Should know by now "new" ideas are super rare in theses internet days [emoticon]

Well maybe my project's incarnation is different enough to warrant documenting.
It's appears either less involved construction OR more involved construction compared to some others. And on the lower end as far as sound deadening/weight/size/cost goes.

Well if other project links make it to this thread that's be swell.... IIRC they didn't come up in forum's default (1-yr) thread search.
Thanks!

* This post was edited 06/08/17 05:38am by cfcubed *

Posted By: gbopp on 06/08/17 05:02am

Both designs look like they will do a good job. Did anyone check them using a decibel meter?

I'm curious how much the box will lower the sound from the generator.

My Kindle will not play the video provided by SoundGuy so I don't know if the sound level has been checked with a meter.

Posted By: cfcubed on 06/08/17 05:07am

gbopp wrote:

Both designs look like they will do a good job. Did anyone check them using a decibel meter?

I did in a fashion using a pretty good iPhone app & posted pics of before/after walk around averages & youtube videos with sound for my walk arounds (in the Instructables project).

Posted By: DutchmenSport on 06/08/17 06:27am

Both look like they are very well done. Looks nice ... both of you! Well done. Amazing though, both are independent of each other, yet the final outcome is very similar! Good job!

Posted By: SoundGuy on 06/08/17 08:12am

jauguston's discussion on the topic can be found here where you can also find a link to pics of his EU1000i quiet box. My own version was a budget version based on his design ... never did take sound level meter readings but 20' away, as illustrated in my videos, one could barely tell the genset was running at all. [emoticon]

Posted By: SoundGuy on 06/08/17 08:28am

BTW, anyone seeking to maximize the effectiveness of any quiet box would achieve better results than I did by lining the box with this West Marine Noise Control Barrier.

Posted By: profdant139 on 06/08/17 10:24am

cfcubed, thanks for posting your version of the sound box! I think your box is considerably less expensive than the alternatives, and possibly less bulky. I would guess that SoundGuy's box reduces the decibel rating somewhat more than yours does, but there is the issue of "diminishing returns:" if it costs twice as much to reduce the noise by another twenty per cent, is the expense worthwhile?

There is no answer to that question. It is like driving a Mercedes -- the car costs a lot more than an ordinary sedan and is somewhat better. Is it worth the money? To some folks it is, and not to others.

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Posted By: cfcubed on 06/08/17 10:54am

SoundGuy wrote:

BTW, anyone seeking to maximize the effectiveness of any quiet box would achieve better results than I did by lining the box with this ***Link Removed***.

Thanks - That's a great idea, I'd not thought of boat/marine insulations. Much more expensive than what I used BUT like most everything you get what you pay for, bet it'd be a big improvement. One doesn't know the full cost/impact of little compromises in projects until they've added up in the final product.

WRT this project vs others like it - I'd bet other more robust ones are a whole lot more quieting. I hit what I was shooting for, inexpensive/small/light/not much fabrication & "good enough" for *my* uses. But you sure can still hear my gen from 20/30ft+ away.... (Must resist modding it w/West Marine stuff...)

Posted By: SoundGuy on 06/08/17 11:19am

cfcubed wrote:

WRT this project vs others like it - I'd bet other more robust ones are a whole lot more quieting. I hit what I was shooting for, inexpensive/small/light/not much fabrication & "good enough" for *my* uses. But you sure can still hear my gen from 20/30ft+ away.... (Must resist modding it w/West Marine stuff...)

Google Japanese genset quiet box designs and you'd be shocked at the lengths some of these people go to and how some of them dramatically reduce, in fact almost eliminate, generator noise. I've got a link somewhere and if I can find it I'll post it.

Posted By: MrWizard on 06/08/17 01:34pm

OP
nice work.. thanks for sharing

I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !
....

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Posted By: SoundGuy on 06/08/17 06:20pm

Not the link I was looking for but darned impressive nonetheless.

Yamaha Inverter Genset Quiet Box

And here's a Honda Quiet Box sold in Japan.

Lots of examples in Japan that offer far better noise control than I see here in N America.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 06/09/17 06:03am

Wow, look at this demo of how effective this noise control barrier is! I used a translator and the English text says - "Sponge-like soundproof material with irregularities is common. Waveber Quad zero is a soundproof material whose surface is reinforced with Al. The thickness is amazing 1.2 mm."

And here's another of a similar material.

Now if we could only source this product here in N America!

EDIT: I think these may be the same Wavebar and Quad Zero products manufactured in Australia.

Very impressive results!

Posted By: cfcubed on 06/09/17 07:15am

Thanks guys for the references & accolades WRT the project. Like anything looks like theres a range of possibilities to meet varying wants/needs. E.g. some survivalists are into the super quiet thing.

My minimalist (cost-, weight-, difficulty-, efficacy-wise) project is more toward the something is better than nothing end, which was my target. Looks like it cost < $150 or so all-in. Adding a bit more for 2X+ thicker engine insulation might make a nice improvement & maybe lower CFM/quieter fans. Guess the key "innovation" was IDing the bread keepers as endcaps which allow for at least some baffling.

So my gen setup ends much quieter than most other little gensets in the campground & LOTS quieter than the monsters my neighbors use during power outages (OT, don't get me started). Does the job for that too because I made my forced-air furnace pluggable using heavy grounding plug/receptacle so I can round robin the gen between fridge, furnace, etc.

Posted By: cfcubed on 06/30/17 07:23am

UPDATE 6/17 (from the Instructable): Having re-tested this design with generator under moderate -> heavy load, not in econo mode, for a sustained period I felt exhaust side temps were too high. Small sections of plastic bread keeper on exhaust side got > 90c. Ordered 240CFM replacement fans & will be using a $18 steel mailbox on exhaust side, with larger/taller outlet side hole, to see how that works/helps. My prior tests were shorter / lighter load / econo mode ones.

Posted By: popeyemth on 06/30/17 09:41am

Thanks for the update please keep us informed ??

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Posted By: SoundGuy on 07/01/17 07:42am

cfcubed wrote:

Having re-tested this design with generator under moderate -> heavy load, not in econo mode, for a sustained period I felt exhaust side temps were too high. Small sections of plastic bread keeper on exhaust side got > 90c. Ordered 240CFM replacement fans & will be using a $18 steel mailbox on exhaust side, with larger/taller outlet side hole, to see how that works/helps. My prior tests were shorter / lighter load / econo mode ones.

JMO but adding a fan to draw hot cooling air and hot exhaust out of your genset quiet box is the wrong approach. Both the Honda & Yamaha inverter series of gensets have carefully designed enclosures which draw in cooler air on the intake side, direct it to critical areas of the generator, and properly exhaust it out while not allowing it to mix with more incoming cooling air. Examine jauguston's pics and you'll see he used no fan for his own EF1000iS quiet box and while I did install one in my own box I placed on the intake side, not the exhaust side. If you're convinced the engine is running hotter than it should the key IMO is to increase intake cooling air.

Posted By: cfcubed on 07/01/17 08:05am

Thank you SoundGuy, think I'll follow the advice WRT to trying w/o fan on exhaust side. It's questionable how long these computer-style fans would last at exhaust temps anyway. Will go ahead w/steel mailbox for exhaust side - think bigger hole/higher flow-through is needed on that side, especially if going passive on that side, with material that can better stand the heat (steel).

As far as intake/right side of box, think this design probably needs a fan there it because it doesn't/won't "properly" isolate exhaust gasses from intake (allowing gen's flow to evacuate box) like some other, more involved/chambered designs.

Hope to get to the mods + assoc tests in the next couple weeks... Maybe [emoticon]

Otherwise later this summer.

Posted By: ependydad on 07/13/17 01:09pm

Man, this all inspires me to try and build a collapsible quiet box. I don't really have the storage to add a fixed box for over the generator but something that I can assemble periodically would be perfect.

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Posted By: Sonora108 on 07/15/17 02:56pm

I cannot look at these designs without thinking of overall operating temperatures of the generators. Has anyone placed any type of thermometer inside to read operating temps? Since by design, intake air adds to cooling where are the air intakes on these boxes? I love this idea, we have a pair of Honda EU2000's and I usually only operate one unless I need the AC. I would love to know how much the DB readings are after the box.
Bill

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Posted By: cfcubed on 07/16/17 05:00am

Traildust wrote:

Prior to my attempt I'd searched for others (missed some [emoticon]

& if you search you'll find (sometimes anecdotal) info on their experiences e.g. "used this about X times for about X hours & working fine". Some talk about intake/exhaust/baffling can be found.

I'd checked gen case temps for my initial design in/out of box & they'd been "fine" the few times of less-than-heavy testing I'd done. But temps got too high for my comfort during a heavy/max load session (running A/C that just had an EasyStart installed).

I'm modding the design to have single intake fan w/about 2X the CFM (240) & larger, passive, 12" long cut from a steel mailbox for exhaust port/exit. Will do more thorough testing / temp measurements of that design. Will get to it in a couple/few weeks & expect it to perform pretty well.

Traildust wrote:

I
I love this idea, we have a pair of Honda EU2000's and I usually only operate one unless I need the AC. I would love to know how much the DB readings are after the box.
Bill

Posted this info for my initial design in my instructables dot com project. IMO the noise reduction was well worth the effort as its not just about ave DB but frequency profile & any box should reduce the most "offensive" mid- & upper-frequency components of the noise.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 07/16/17 05:06am

Traildust wrote:

Check out the link I provided back on Page 1 to jauguston's description from 10 yrs ago of his own EU1000i quiet box and you'll find discussions that address all of these issues. [emoticon]

Posted By: ICamel on 07/16/17 12:12pm

Traildust wrote:

I did..............here is my post from a year ago.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fusea........d/28956619/gotomsg/28964092.cfm#28964092
With a remote sensor placed near the exhaust outlet of my box the temp recorded was 134F after running for 15 minutes.
The inside box temp with the sensor placed near the top handle of the Honda remained at the outside air ambient temperature of 72F. No fans added to move air inside the enclosure.

The key as others have noted is to isolate the exhaust(both genset and motor) from the engine side.

ICamel

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Posted By: Sonora108 on 07/16/17 02:25pm

OK you got me, I will not ask anymore questions before I do the research myself. I just spent over an hour reading one link that lead to another link and so on. I know a lot of you have spent a lot of time working on this and I hope I did not upset anyone with my stupid questions.
Bill

Posted By: rickhise on 07/21/17 09:32pm

Have u given any thought to the life of these engined
Heat is its demise.
Don't kid your self put a thermostat that reads the temp
sometime, you will quickly learn regardless how many
times u change the oil. The heat has this motor doomed

Posted By: cfcubed on 07/22/17 06:26am

rickhise wrote:

Don't kid your self put a thermostat that reads the temp
sometime, you will quickly learn regardless how many
times u change the oil. The heat has this motor doomed

Of course this is a primary concern, one that "proper" testing & temp readings should address, at least to the satisfaction of builders/users of boxes. Though it'll be tricky to get internal temp measures (engine,gen,inverter) I'm going to try.
As always in DIY, you research/assess info & reports and decide cost/benefit for yourself.

Posted By: jjrbus on 07/22/17 06:35am

Traildust wrote:

Don't worry about stupid questions, some of us have lot's of stupid answers.

When I did my Honda box I started with premise that it needed no fans, which seems to work for some. After thinking about running gen while traveling and vacuum and vortex and black holes decided it might not be the best idea.

So utilized a fan. I have a $1000 genny on the line here so did many tests observing the temp. Little difference in temps under any conditions in the box.

Honda in Asia sells a sound box for their Honda inverter generators, no auxiliary cooling. So all the hype on not enclosing is questionable.

[image]

Edit, so now of course the picture won's show.

[image]

[/img] Hopefully?

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