I recently bought a TC, (see signature for rig set up), and the previous owners, one who is a trucker, and the other who repairs them, put the TC on my truck for me, and they used brophy screw ons, not the stakes, and steel turnbuckles. They seem sturdy, very.
My truck box fit the TC like a glove. The tailgate was removed to eliminate extra weight AND because I had no choice anyway, as the TC fit so well and snug in the bed, it wouldn't go in with the tailgate still attatched.
Ok...When I first drove it, it seemed to rock with the motion of the truck bed, and I can SEE it moving overhead out my peripheral vision. FREAKED ME OUT! THEY both laughed and said it was normal. Is it?????
These two guys were so nice they even hooked up my auxillary battery system for me off my alternator for free, and checked my truck engine for safety etc and adjusted my mirrors. WHY wouldn't I trust them that they know what they're doing?
The trucker marveled at how well my truck drove, and bragged about it to his buddy. "Smooth as molasses," he said. That was without the TC in it.
The diesel mechanic said he didn't notice a thing wrong. So, I drove it 300 miles on interstate with no problems. I don't think the truck noticed the weight at all, at least I didn't notice it handling any different EXCEPT...it bucked like a horse ONCE, and that was mild and short lived. (10 seconds) (Hence my rush for new tires)
The truck also has a new beautiful Line-X liner. Would that make the camper slide?
I was a little afraid that my camper was too heavy, so I bought four new state of the art tires to increase the axle payload. My axle and suspension are free floating limited slip 4.1 see signature.
Am I just not use to it?
All help appreciated.
Is this normal? Do I need a different set up?
* This post was edited 06/06/17 02:10pm by Katajojo *
Camper:
1995 Shadow Cruiser 1160 11'
1895 lbs
Truck:
1992 Ford F250 XL 8' box
7.3 IDI diesel banks turbo
GVWR: 8800 lbs
Rear & Front GAWR: 8000+ lbs w/2017 Hercules 901H tires
Trans : automatic 4OD
Axle : 10.25 limited slip w/gear ratio = 4.10
Spring: F&R leaf
2002 F-350 7.3 Lariat 4x4 DRW ZF6
2008 Lance 1191 - 220w of solar - Bring on the sun!
But I also use Torklift.
Always a good idea to get an honest weight to see where you really are.
Cal
the campers nose moves alot in relation to front of truck. Normal yes, frame flexes/twists between bed and cab but after a while you wont notice.
A rubber mat, even with the spray in liner will help alot if there is actually movement.
As to rocking, not sure. Center of gravity is a lot higher so truck will handle/react different to any side forces. If camper is actually rocking in the bed, really not likely given weight of camper (11' under 2000#?) better tie downs could help. Unfamiliar with Brophys other than the old stake pockets. Umm I just looked, crbrophy.com I think Id start saving for Torklift or HappiJac tie downs.
01 Ford F250 4x4 DRW Diesel, 01 Elkhorn 9U
Our camper projects page
I don't have TL tiedowns. When I got my first TC, TL wasn't even around. I have HappyJac's front and rear, never an issue, not one hiccup. At some point I may purchase a set of TL cam lock tie down's but HJ has come out with their own (and a lesser price point) so I may get them, not that I'm unhappy with the HJ turnbuckles, it's just the cam locks are quicker on and off. having said that, I usually leave the camper on the truck all season except right now when I'm using the truck for the farm (to haul tractor fuel) Once I'm done planting, the camper goes in the bed and stays there until winter, when it comes off and goes in the garage.
I quit watching my camper out the window (I have a crew cab so I cannot see the nose in the windshield )and yes it moves, but, if it didn't something would be wrong as the bed needs to move independently from the cab and the camper is in the bed so it moves with the bed.
All this phooey about TL being the best... is, in my opinion and 20 plus years of TC experience, a bunch of phooey perpetuated by people who have never used anything else.
Happyjac was around a long time before TorkLift and I've never heard of any campers coming off the truck using them.
If there is, please enlighten me.... If not, quit bragging about TL because it's just that bragging.
TL produces some outstanding products but so does HappyJac.
2015 Backpack SS1500
1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB
The thread is about a new TC owner asking about couple of things shes not comfortable with..one being the Brophy mounts. The other how much camper moves. Few who have never driven truck with a T/C would not find the camper nose bobbing around a bit disconcerting.
* This post was edited 06/06/17 08:39pm by AnEv942 *
The movement you're seeing is normal. That's why truck cabs and beds are separate rather than one piece. (OK except for those '61-'63 Ford "Unibody" trucks... and those didn't work out!) Trucks flex.
I carried 4000+ pound campers for years with Brophys. They work fine. There are lots of guys on here who think you need Torklift tiedowns, but as mentioned, show me an example of a camper held on with Brophy-style tiedowns that came off. It's all just a bunch of sky-is-falling speculation. The older the truck, the better Brophy style tiedowns work, because the beds were stronger and stiffer. I dare say that on my old '67 Chevy with clamp on camper brackets, the camper would be torn apart before you pulled those things off.
Having said that, Torklifts are very excellent tie downs.
The only reason I quit using the Brophy style tiedowns is they're an extra chore to install and remove every time I want to load my camper, and they're ugly if I just leave 'em on.
I actually like "belly bar" tiedown mounts.
Weigh your rig with and without that camper... if it's an 11-footer, it weighs around 4000-ish.
I guarantee you it doesn't weigh anything close to 1895!
2017 Northern Lite 10-2 EX CD SE
99 Ram 4x4 Dually Cummins
A whole lot more fuel, a whole lot more boost.
4.10 gears, Gear Vendors overdrive, exhaust brake
Built auto, triple disc, billet shafts.
Kelderman Air Ride, Helwig sway bar.
AnEv942 wrote:
When we first got our camper I use to drive with the sun visors down,
the campers nose moves alot in relation to front of truck. Normal yes, frame flexes/twists between bed and cab but after a while you wont notice.
A rubber mat, even with the spray in liner will help alot if there is actually movement.
As to rocking, not sure. Center of gravity is a lot higher so truck will handle/react different to any side forces. If camper is actually rocking in the bed, really not likely given weight of camper (11' under 2000#?) better tie downs could help. Unfamiliar with Brophys other than the old stake pockets. Umm I just looked, crbrophy.com I think Id start saving for Torklift or HappiJac tie downs.
When we first got our camper I use to drive with the sun visors down,
the campers nose moves alot in relation to front of truck. Normal yes, frame flexes/twists between bed and cab but after a while you wont notice.
A rubber mat, even with the spray in liner will help alot if there is actually movement.
As to rocking, not sure. Center of gravity is a lot higher so truck will handle/react different to any side forces. If camper is actually rocking in the bed, really not likely given weight of camper (11' under 2000#?) better tie downs could help. Unfamiliar with Brophys other than the old stake pockets. Umm I just looked, crbrophy.com I think Id start saving for Torklift or HappiJac tie downs.
I'm a she.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/grin.gif "grin")
Yea, camper is exactly 11.5' and weighs exactly 1895lbs dry. (So says the plate on the camper and the original sales receipt from the dealer.)
The Brophys are the super heavy duty ones from the link you gave.
I dont see any movement side to side through the back mirror, or even when I kept looking over my shoulder every five seconds to make sure the thing was still connected to the planet. It's just over the cab that I see it move OR when Im out watching someone else drive it into a dock. (When I got new tires.) The truck bed and camper moved in unison, but it seemed to me to be a lot. It feels STRANGE, looks strange, and Ive nothing to compare. Never watched a TC move slowly into a dock.
Yes the liner is a spray in. I can't remove it.
It handled fine, even when big 18 wheelers drove by me at warp speed. Just "moved" a bit to the right, then recovered instantly. (but I do credit myself to good driving skills.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
)Yea, im terrified of being overweight. My truck is a monster. My diesel engine weighs a lot. Id just be sick if I had to get rid of either one of these beauties. The TC is spotless, never used, no rust, no leaks, no dust or mold, and the pickup no rust, pristine paint, also a beauty. Took me 3 years holding out to get exactly what I wanted, then realized I might of just made a dreadful mistake on total weight. The guys told me my truck would handle the TC. I believed them. It probably will. Ive had so many diesel mechanics offer to buy my truck while I'm standing there, so there has to be something they like about it. The guy who put in my new fuel line said I had a gem.
I bought the heavy duty tires to increase my payload as the Ford guy told me the axle rating is based on the tires you have, so I bought the highest weight rated tires I could find that would fit my rims. They had to special order them.
I figured my springs can handle extra weight? I wanted one of the old diesels bc I didn't want any computerized gizmos in my truck engine, and I wanted a sturdy body.
I'm just kinda freakin out. I cant afford TL right now bc my tires cost around $1000. I'm traveling to central states to see the eclipse in August, so I wanted reassurance it will be OK...at least for that trip?
I guess I will look at happy jacks, and have someone look at it. Im so terrified to go to the scales. I hope it's not a weight isdue that makes it move. But lije I said...the bed and TC move in unison...the TC is NOT moving independently of the truck.
TL just seem so much better, but one post here said hes been just fine without them.
Ahhhhh. Sheesh.
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!
As to weight, number wise you may be over a tad- but cant imagine to a point of not safe.
Your first post made it sound like camper was moving around. It doesnt sound like anything other than 'first introduction' and nothing, at least from here, reason for concern. Or more like 'relax- your doing ok.
Swapping tires a good move.
burningman wrote:
First of all, where did you get the idea your 11' camper weighs 1895 pounds? That's got to be about HALF the actual weight.
The movement you're seeing is normal. That's why truck cabs and beds are separate rather than one piece. (OK except for those '61-'63 Ford "Unibody" trucks... and those didn't work out!) Trucks flex.
I carried 4000+ pound campers for years with Brophys. They work fine. There are lots of guys on here who think you need Torklift tiedowns, but as mentioned, show me an example of a camper held on with Brophy-style tiedowns that came off. It's all just a bunch of sky-is-falling speculation. The older the truck, the better Brophy style tiedowns work, because the beds were stronger and stiffer. I dare say that on my old '67 Chevy with clamp on camper brackets, the camper would be torn apart before you pulled those things off.
Having said that, Torklifts are very excellent tie downs.
The only reason I quit using the Brophy style tiedowns is they're an extra chore to install and remove every time I want to load my camper, and they're ugly if I just leave 'em on.
I actually like "belly bar" tiedown mounts.
Weigh your rig with and without that camper... if it's an 11-footer, it weighs around 4000-ish.
I guarantee you it doesn't weigh anything close to 1895!
First of all, where did you get the idea your 11' camper weighs 1895 pounds? That's got to be about HALF the actual weight.
The movement you're seeing is normal. That's why truck cabs and beds are separate rather than one piece. (OK except for those '61-'63 Ford "Unibody" trucks... and those didn't work out!) Trucks flex.
I carried 4000+ pound campers for years with Brophys. They work fine. There are lots of guys on here who think you need Torklift tiedowns, but as mentioned, show me an example of a camper held on with Brophy-style tiedowns that came off. It's all just a bunch of sky-is-falling speculation. The older the truck, the better Brophy style tiedowns work, because the beds were stronger and stiffer. I dare say that on my old '67 Chevy with clamp on camper brackets, the camper would be torn apart before you pulled those things off.
Having said that, Torklifts are very excellent tie downs.
The only reason I quit using the Brophy style tiedowns is they're an extra chore to install and remove every time I want to load my camper, and they're ugly if I just leave 'em on.
I actually like "belly bar" tiedown mounts.
Weigh your rig with and without that camper... if it's an 11-footer, it weighs around 4000-ish.
I guarantee you it doesn't weigh anything close to 1895!
Actually, the plate bolted right on the camper AND the original dealer sales receipt both say 1895 lbs. It's part fiberglass part aluminum. The shadow cruisers were made light. But it realky is 11.5' It hangs off the back of my 8ft bed by a yard when I measured. It has a very large wet/dry bath and storage in the back.
There's NO sag at all, up front or in the rear. It's perfectly level. No air bags. And I was wondering about those too, but they were not recommended based on how well the camper fit the truck. Said I didnt need them, but do I?
Your post raises my spirit about those brophys, very much, but what is a "belly bar?"
Technically my Gvwr is 8800lbs. I figure the truck itself weighs 7000? Would that be a good guess? If youre right, Im screwed. Except everyone I ask seems to tell me the tires just did me a world of good, and I dont know what to believe...axle weight or total gvwr?
Ford themselves told me the axle weight is set based on the tires, and that payload can be increased by getting better tires. And they told me that the rear axle and spring in the 1992 f250 was the same as the 350, (I have not looked up the validity of that however), and that my free floating, 4.1, limited slip was an excellent axle/suspension.
He said those numbers on the door sticker, are based on studies, and laws, and overall life safety and endurance of the truck. He did say that trucks can be overweight and be fine for years provided the weight per axle never exceeds the tires combined weight rating on that axle. Change your tires and the sticker inside the door means nothing. I did go read my sticker and it DOES say,
Rear GAWR : 6084 lbs w LT235/85R16E tires, 16X7K rims @ 80 psi cold
Front GAWR: 3965 lbs w LT235/85R16E tires, 16X7K rims @ 51 psi cold
So...I put Hercules H-901 tires on my truck whose weight rating each is over 4000 pounds, and can be filled to 110 cold psi
As you can see, I want everything to be safe, and perfect. I plan on going full time starting April 2018. I want to go back roading and live outdoors, and have a blast! I want to have fun, I dont want to be worrying.
Watch...I'll be that person that you see going down the road, with brophys, TLs, AND happyjacks. Just honk and wave when you see me.
Any advice you give is appreciated, and I am grateful! Im not one of those types who asks for help then argues with the people who took time out of their day to write a helpful message. (I always wonder why those people ask questions in the first place.) At this point, I don't know cr*p. I dont even know what I dont know, so EVERY piece of advice given to me is getting printed off and read over in detail.
I hope I give enough information so you all know what I have, and the things Ive been told which has led to confusion. I agree im going to have to bite the bullet and go weigh everything. I truly hope that sticker plate is accurate.
But if youre accurate...what then? My truck doesnt think he's overweight.
Off topic: have you BEEN to burningman?
AnEv942 wrote:
If your camper isnt moving around- upgrading can be done when it seems worthwhile. Semi pushing truck w/camper to be expected, a lot of surface area to catch wind. Your bed is probaly a lot heavier gage than mine- so likley OK. T/Ls are considered to be 'cream of the crop' by many but H/J work as well. Given weight T/L cost may be not justifiable.
As to weight, number wise you may be over a tad- but cant imagine to a point of not safe.
Your first post made it sound like camper was moving around. It doesnt sound like anything other than 'first introduction' and nothing, at least from here, reason for concern. Or more like 'relax- your doing ok.
Swapping tires a good move.
If your camper isnt moving around- upgrading can be done when it seems worthwhile. Semi pushing truck w/camper to be expected, a lot of surface area to catch wind. Your bed is probaly a lot heavier gage than mine- so likley OK. T/Ls are considered to be 'cream of the crop' by many but H/J work as well. Given weight T/L cost may be not justifiable.
As to weight, number wise you may be over a tad- but cant imagine to a point of not safe.
Your first post made it sound like camper was moving around. It doesnt sound like anything other than 'first introduction' and nothing, at least from here, reason for concern. Or more like 'relax- your doing ok.
Swapping tires a good move.
Thank you so much! This makes me feel way better, and that, yea, Im a newbie and on edge until I get use to things and that my Summer trip need not be stayed.
Did your first introduction feel the same?
What upgrades? Do you mean TLs and HJs? Or are you talking truck suspension overhaul type stuff?
mellow wrote:
I had a similar shadow cruiser on my f250, you're fine truck wise but I would get torklifts or happyjacs, I have seen brophys in action and it scares me how much movement they allow. Also ditch the plastic liner if it has one as the TC will slide and get a rubber mat instead.
I had a similar shadow cruiser on my f250, you're fine truck wise but I would get torklifts or happyjacs, I have seen brophys in action and it scares me how much movement they allow. Also ditch the plastic liner if it has one as the TC will slide and get a rubber mat instead.
Thanks for assuring me about my truck being able to handle the TC, especially since you had a similar set up. Shadow cruiser on an F250. Was it the large shadow cruiser? The 11.5? 1160 model? Seems to be some discrepancy on what the actual weight might be. My sticker plate says 1895lbs dry weight but a wonderful gentleman said he thought it was around 4000# based on its size.
See, i was wondering this very thing if there's too much movement. I really dont know, but got some good advice already from those wwho've had brophys and liked them. In that respect it appears that im just not use to them.
Its not a plastic liner but a permanent spray in liner.
Yes referring to tie downs. Though most any truck will benefit from suspension upgrades, shock, sway bar etc, if truck is driving straight, sets level, not white knuckling to control, its as you wish or feel you need or want. Anything can be made better.
AnEv942 wrote:
I ah gotta ask SidecarFlip, what ARE you going off about?- replied to wrong thread? No one mentioned Torklift was the best. No one mentioned camper sliding on the spray in lining. Closest was me saying IF it was actually moving a mat would help or the other was IF it had a plastic liner to remove.
The thread is about a new TC owner asking about couple of things shes not comfortable with..one being the Brophy mounts. The other how much camper moves. Few who have never driven truck with a T/C would not find the camper nose bobbing around a bit disconcerting.
I ah gotta ask SidecarFlip, what ARE you going off about?- replied to wrong thread? No one mentioned Torklift was the best. No one mentioned camper sliding on the spray in lining. Closest was me saying IF it was actually moving a mat would help or the other was IF it had a plastic liner to remove.
The thread is about a new TC owner asking about couple of things shes not comfortable with..one being the Brophy mounts. The other how much camper moves. Few who have never driven truck with a T/C would not find the camper nose bobbing around a bit disconcerting.
Probably because I read on here about how superior TL tie downs are.. They aren't.
now, interestingly, the guy who bought my Lance has a plastic bed liner in his new Ford (factory liner) and we added a sheet of marine plywood and it's not moving either. He bought the TL front tie down's and we fabricated the rear tiedown set using the Ford factory receiver hith and square tubing inserted in the ends. works great.
I agree with Burningman, the older the truck the better the Brophy's work because the beds are stronger (thicker metal). The new stuff is thin and flexes a lot more.
Finally, my comment to the young lady is, That shadow cruiser weighs a lot more than the weight sticker on the camper states. I believe builders, for years, have 'guesstimated' camper weights based on a camper without anything inside, just the complete shell and basic appointments. I bet it weighs at least 700-1000 pounds more. The only real way to find out is weigh the truck without the camper and the load the unit and weigh again, then add an additional 500 - 750 pounds for 'stuff'.
On the plus side, older trucks (like my 1997 F350) came with much heavier spring packs from the factory than new trucks come with today. Back then, a 1 ton rode empty like a lumber wagon,because they had serious springs but people want a 'car like ride' today so manufacturers complied with softer springs. Is there a 1 ton 4x4 built today with leaf springs on the front? Not sure but I don't believe so. I do know that the empty ride on my F350 is punishing for my wife, but with a load in the bed (my TC) the ride is much softer.
Never had either of my campers move at all and I have a spray in bed liner and nothing between the camper and the bed, well, my camper has steel channels affixed to the bottom so it sits on the steel channels on the bed.
Considering the age of her pickup, I don't see why the Brophy tie downs won't work.
Because of the flexing, there is a chance that one of the four 3/8" hardened bolts holding the bed to the truck frame has come loose or overcome its welcome with the surrounding sheet metal. This has happened to me a couple times now and I keep patching it up with larger and larger fender washers hoping to get a few more years out of the connection. With my Dodge hydro formed frame and on a short bed truck there is very little twisting/flexing. So, when I see one side or the other of the camper overhead seem to have more range of motion than usual, I instinctively head for the usual suspect: the pass side front bolt on the truck bed for an answer.
About tie downs: you need to have adjustability. There is a 'sweet spot' at which there is enough tension to keep the box on the bed, but not so much as to pull your camper apart. Neophytes invariably apply too much tension to the tie downs. For me, this is an on going situation, depending on how much the axles are twisted up and transferring that twist through the suspension to the truck frame. I suspect you will set and forget if you are staying off really bad roads. After putting the camper back on the truck for the next trip, I manually check the tie downs at intervals to see what has changed and readjusting the tension as needed (PRN).
One more thing. A good bet to keep your camper centered in the bed is some kind of centering system. I use the Lance Camper Centering Guides because that was what was available 15 years ago, and have had great luck with them. I've seen some much improved versions made by our own on this forum. When the camper shifts, side to side, it puts undue pull on one side's tie downs, and loosens the other side. Over time, this is not good.
'01.5 Dodge 2500 4x4, CTD, Qcab, SB, NV5600, 241HD, 4.10's, Dana 70/TruTrac; Dana 80/ TruTrac, Spintec hub conversion, H.D. susp, 315/75R16's on 7.5" and 10" wide steel wheels, Vulcan big line, Warn M15K winch '98 Lance Lite 165s, 8' 6" X-cab, 200w Solar
If it is just rocking with the vehicle, that is normal and unavoidable. There is some flex in the truck frame, some flex in the truck box, and some flex in the camper itself. You will see some motion.
Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.
AnEv942 wrote:
Ha-first trip with our camper, bought new bringing it home 120 miles scarred the bejesus out of me.... whole new ball game that I (or truck) wasn't prepared for.
Yes referring to tie downs. Though most any truck will benefit from suspension upgrades, shock, sway bar etc, if truck is driving straight, sets level, not white knuckling to control, its as you wish or feel you need or want. Anything can be made better.
Ha-first trip with our camper, bought new bringing it home 120 miles scarred the bejesus out of me.... whole new ball game that I (or truck) wasn't prepared for.
Yes referring to tie downs. Though most any truck will benefit from suspension upgrades, shock, sway bar etc, if truck is driving straight, sets level, not white knuckling to control, its as you wish or feel you need or want. Anything can be made better.
ROFL! Yep...that was me. Though I did have a kid driver pull right in front of me, and I had to slam on my brakes. The rig held tight. I couldn't believe it stopped so fast. I figured someone was dyin' my first day! I was so mad, when I saw him at a parking lot, he saw me too, so I said to him..."I should've just run RIGHT OVER you. My rig would've just thought you were a squirrel! If you enjoy your life buddy you gotta stupid way of showin' it! But let me tell you something...if you pull in front of me again...and I hit you, and I have to get out of my truck...one way or another, youre gonna need an ambulance. New rule: If you see me on the road...find another route." He was like "oops."
I feel better about my brophys, EXCEPT that (sidecar) thinks my camper is too heavy. What was I supposed to do? Take it to the scales before purchase? Seriously...what if it really does weigh 4000lb?? Id be 3000lbs overweight by GVWR!!!!! Even a f350 couldnt handle that. Id needed to buy a 550 or something. Gees. (Except the tires can hold 16000lbs.) But if the springs cant?
Ok i went to your website, and your camper weighs 3500lbs? And you have it on an '01 f250 diesel???? So I should be OK bc you are overweight too then and doing fine! I looked at another shadow cruiser page and the 1989 9ft camper is 1395lbs, so I think Im ok, but seriously, im calling the company tomorrow!
How much does YOUR truck weigh??
* This post was edited 06/07/17 05:29pm by Katajojo *
SidecarFlip wrote:
Probably because I read on here about how superior TL tie downs are.. They aren't.
now, interestingly, the guy who bought my Lance has a plastic bed liner in his new Ford (factory liner) and we added a sheet of marine plywood and it's not moving either. He bought the TL front tie down's and we fabricated the rear tiedown set using the Ford factory receiver hith and square tubing inserted in the ends. works great.
I agree with Burningman, the older the truck the better the Brophy's work because the beds are stronger (thicker metal). The new stuff is thin and flexes a lot more.
Finally, my comment to the young lady is, That shadow cruiser weighs a lot more than the weight sticker on the camper states. I believe builders, for years, have 'guesstimated' camper weights based on a camper without anything inside, just the complete shell and basic appointments. I bet it weighs at least 700-1000 pounds more. The only real way to find out is weigh the truck without the camper and the load the unit and weigh again, then add an additional 500 - 750 pounds for 'stuff'.
On the plus side, older trucks (like my 1997 F350) came with much heavier spring packs from the factory than new trucks come with today. Back then, a 1 ton rode empty like a lumber wagon,because they had serious springs but people want a 'car like ride' today so manufacturers complied with softer springs. Is there a 1 ton 4x4 built today with leaf springs on the front? Not sure but I don't believe so. I do know that the empty ride on my F350 is punishing for my wife, but with a load in the bed (my TC) the ride is much softer.
Never had either of my campers move at all and I have a spray in bed liner and nothing between the camper and the bed, well, my camper has steel channels affixed to the bottom so it sits on the steel channels on the bed.
Considering the age of her pickup, I don't see why the Brophy tie downs won't work.
AnEv942 wrote:
I ah gotta ask SidecarFlip, what ARE you going off about?- replied to wrong thread? No one mentioned Torklift was the best. No one mentioned camper sliding on the spray in lining. Closest was me saying IF it was actually moving a mat would help or the other was IF it had a plastic liner to remove.
The thread is about a new TC owner asking about couple of things shes not comfortable with..one being the Brophy mounts. The other how much camper moves. Few who have never driven truck with a T/C would not find the camper nose bobbing around a bit disconcerting.
I ah gotta ask SidecarFlip, what ARE you going off about?- replied to wrong thread? No one mentioned Torklift was the best. No one mentioned camper sliding on the spray in lining. Closest was me saying IF it was actually moving a mat would help or the other was IF it had a plastic liner to remove.
The thread is about a new TC owner asking about couple of things shes not comfortable with..one being the Brophy mounts. The other how much camper moves. Few who have never driven truck with a T/C would not find the camper nose bobbing around a bit disconcerting.
Probably because I read on here about how superior TL tie downs are.. They aren't.
now, interestingly, the guy who bought my Lance has a plastic bed liner in his new Ford (factory liner) and we added a sheet of marine plywood and it's not moving either. He bought the TL front tie down's and we fabricated the rear tiedown set using the Ford factory receiver hith and square tubing inserted in the ends. works great.
I agree with Burningman, the older the truck the better the Brophy's work because the beds are stronger (thicker metal). The new stuff is thin and flexes a lot more.
Finally, my comment to the young lady is, That shadow cruiser weighs a lot more than the weight sticker on the camper states. I believe builders, for years, have 'guesstimated' camper weights based on a camper without anything inside, just the complete shell and basic appointments. I bet it weighs at least 700-1000 pounds more. The only real way to find out is weigh the truck without the camper and the load the unit and weigh again, then add an additional 500 - 750 pounds for 'stuff'.
On the plus side, older trucks (like my 1997 F350) came with much heavier spring packs from the factory than new trucks come with today. Back then, a 1 ton rode empty like a lumber wagon,because they had serious springs but people want a 'car like ride' today so manufacturers complied with softer springs. Is there a 1 ton 4x4 built today with leaf springs on the front? Not sure but I don't believe so. I do know that the empty ride on my F350 is punishing for my wife, but with a load in the bed (my TC) the ride is much softer.
Never had either of my campers move at all and I have a spray in bed liner and nothing between the camper and the bed, well, my camper has steel channels affixed to the bottom so it sits on the steel channels on the bed.
Considering the age of her pickup, I don't see why the Brophy tie downs won't work.
YAY! On the brophys!
BOO! If you're right about the weight. Like I said to AnEv942, what was I supposed to do? Take it to the scales before purchase? If it's 4000#, Ill be overweight by 3000lbs. I have a hard time believing it weighs that much, but if it does, what do I do? (Im taking it to the scales in 2 weeks.) The tires will hold 16000 pounds.
Katajojo wrote:
YAY! On the brophys!
BOO! If you're right about the weight. Like I said to AnEv942, what was I supposed to do? Take it to the scales before purchase? If it's 4000#, Ill be overweight by 2000lbs. I have a hard time believing it weighs that much, but if it does, what do I do? (Im taking it to the scales in 2 weeks.) The tires will hold 16000 pounds.
SidecarFlip wrote:
Probably because I read on here about how superior TL tie downs are.. They aren't.
now, interestingly, the guy who bought my Lance has a plastic bed liner in his new Ford (factory liner) and we added a sheet of marine plywood and it's not moving either. He bought the TL front tie down's and we fabricated the rear tiedown set using the Ford factory receiver hith and square tubing inserted in the ends. works great.
I agree with Burningman, the older the truck the better the Brophy's work because the beds are stronger (thicker metal). The new stuff is thin and flexes a lot more.
Finally, my comment to the young lady is, That shadow cruiser weighs a lot more than the weight sticker on the camper states. I believe builders, for years, have 'guesstimated' camper weights based on a camper without anything inside, just the complete shell and basic appointments. I bet it weighs at least 700-1000 pounds more. The only real way to find out is weigh the truck without the camper and the load the unit and weigh again, then add an additional 500 - 750 pounds for 'stuff'.
On the plus side, older trucks (like my 1997 F350) came with much heavier spring packs from the factory than new trucks come with today. Back then, a 1 ton rode empty like a lumber wagon,because they had serious springs but people want a 'car like ride' today so manufacturers complied with softer springs. Is there a 1 ton 4x4 built today with leaf springs on the front? Not sure but I don't believe so. I do know that the empty ride on my F350 is punishing for my wife, but with a load in the bed (my TC) the ride is much softer.
Never had either of my campers move at all and I have a spray in bed liner and nothing between the camper and the bed, well, my camper has steel channels affixed to the bottom so it sits on the steel channels on the bed.
Considering the age of her pickup, I don't see why the Brophy tie downs won't work.
AnEv942 wrote:
I ah gotta ask SidecarFlip, what ARE you going off about?- replied to wrong thread? No one mentioned Torklift was the best. No one mentioned camper sliding on the spray in lining. Closest was me saying IF it was actually moving a mat would help or the other was IF it had a plastic liner to remove.
The thread is about a new TC owner asking about couple of things shes not comfortable with..one being the Brophy mounts. The other how much camper moves. Few who have never driven truck with a T/C would not find the camper nose bobbing around a bit disconcerting.
I ah gotta ask SidecarFlip, what ARE you going off about?- replied to wrong thread? No one mentioned Torklift was the best. No one mentioned camper sliding on the spray in lining. Closest was me saying IF it was actually moving a mat would help or the other was IF it had a plastic liner to remove.
The thread is about a new TC owner asking about couple of things shes not comfortable with..one being the Brophy mounts. The other how much camper moves. Few who have never driven truck with a T/C would not find the camper nose bobbing around a bit disconcerting.
Probably because I read on here about how superior TL tie downs are.. They aren't.
now, interestingly, the guy who bought my Lance has a plastic bed liner in his new Ford (factory liner) and we added a sheet of marine plywood and it's not moving either. He bought the TL front tie down's and we fabricated the rear tiedown set using the Ford factory receiver hith and square tubing inserted in the ends. works great.
I agree with Burningman, the older the truck the better the Brophy's work because the beds are stronger (thicker metal). The new stuff is thin and flexes a lot more.
Finally, my comment to the young lady is, That shadow cruiser weighs a lot more than the weight sticker on the camper states. I believe builders, for years, have 'guesstimated' camper weights based on a camper without anything inside, just the complete shell and basic appointments. I bet it weighs at least 700-1000 pounds more. The only real way to find out is weigh the truck without the camper and the load the unit and weigh again, then add an additional 500 - 750 pounds for 'stuff'.
On the plus side, older trucks (like my 1997 F350) came with much heavier spring packs from the factory than new trucks come with today. Back then, a 1 ton rode empty like a lumber wagon,because they had serious springs but people want a 'car like ride' today so manufacturers complied with softer springs. Is there a 1 ton 4x4 built today with leaf springs on the front? Not sure but I don't believe so. I do know that the empty ride on my F350 is punishing for my wife, but with a load in the bed (my TC) the ride is much softer.
Never had either of my campers move at all and I have a spray in bed liner and nothing between the camper and the bed, well, my camper has steel channels affixed to the bottom so it sits on the steel channels on the bed.
Considering the age of her pickup, I don't see why the Brophy tie downs won't work.
YAY! On the brophys!
BOO! If you're right about the weight. Like I said to AnEv942, what was I supposed to do? Take it to the scales before purchase? If it's 4000#, Ill be overweight by 2000lbs. I have a hard time believing it weighs that much, but if it does, what do I do? (Im taking it to the scales in 2 weeks.) The tires will hold 16000 pounds.
mkirsch wrote:
Moving how? If the camper is sliding around visibly in the bed that is NOT normal. You need a rubber bed mat to stop this.
If it is just rocking with the vehicle, that is normal and unavoidable. There is some flex in the truck frame, some flex in the truck box, and some flex in the camper itself. You will see some motion.
Moving how? If the camper is sliding around visibly in the bed that is NOT normal. You need a rubber bed mat to stop this.
If it is just rocking with the vehicle, that is normal and unavoidable. There is some flex in the truck frame, some flex in the truck box, and some flex in the camper itself. You will see some motion.
No, not moving in the bed at all. It fit too perfectky for any movement to occur. There's no distance between the front of the camper and the bed front. I dont see any floor space either. It's sitting in it like it was custom made or something.
It's just rockin' with the bed. Seems to me that bed ain't on so tight or it's got some mighty fine strong "gadgets" letting it do that. But apparently the comment below yours states ford made their trucks for a rock n' roll experience. Well...
jefe 4x4 wrote:
One aspect of an older Ford/Camper lashup is Ford's famously flexible frame. (This is National Alliteration day, isn't it?) During the 1990's, and by design, Ford's pickup frames flexed and twisted a LOT more than its competitors. It was actually a small addendum to the suspension. This is why campers on Ford's must have more cab overhead clearance so as not to come into contact with the cab roof.
Because of the flexing, there is a chance that one of the four 3/8" hardened bolts holding the bed to the truck frame has come loose or overcome its welcome with the surrounding sheet metal. This has happened to me a couple times now and I keep patching it up with larger and larger fender washers hoping to get a few more years out of the connection. With my Dodge hydro formed frame and on a short bed truck there is very little twisting/flexing. So, when I see one side or the other of the camper overhead seem to have more range of motion than usual, I instinctively head for the usual suspect: the pass side front bolt on the truck bed for an answer.
About tie downs: you need to have adjustability. There is a 'sweet spot' at which there is enough tension to keep the box on the bed, but not so much as to pull your camper apart. Neophytes invariably apply too much tension to the tie downs. For me, this is an on going situation, depending on how much the axles are twisted up and transferring that twist through the suspension to the truck frame. I suspect you will set and forget if you are staying off really bad roads. After putting the camper back on the truck for the next trip, I manually check the tie downs at intervals to see what has changed and readjusting the tension as needed (PRN).
One more thing. A good bet to keep your camper centered in the bed is some kind of centering system. I use the Lance Camper Centering Guides because that was what was available 15 years ago, and have had great luck with them. I've seen some much improved versions made by our own on this forum. When the camper shifts, side to side, it puts undue pull on one side's tie downs, and loosens the other side. Over time, this is not good.
One aspect of an older Ford/Camper lashup is Ford's famously flexible frame. (This is National Alliteration day, isn't it?) During the 1990's, and by design, Ford's pickup frames flexed and twisted a LOT more than its competitors. It was actually a small addendum to the suspension. This is why campers on Ford's must have more cab overhead clearance so as not to come into contact with the cab roof.
Because of the flexing, there is a chance that one of the four 3/8" hardened bolts holding the bed to the truck frame has come loose or overcome its welcome with the surrounding sheet metal. This has happened to me a couple times now and I keep patching it up with larger and larger fender washers hoping to get a few more years out of the connection. With my Dodge hydro formed frame and on a short bed truck there is very little twisting/flexing. So, when I see one side or the other of the camper overhead seem to have more range of motion than usual, I instinctively head for the usual suspect: the pass side front bolt on the truck bed for an answer.
About tie downs: you need to have adjustability. There is a 'sweet spot' at which there is enough tension to keep the box on the bed, but not so much as to pull your camper apart. Neophytes invariably apply too much tension to the tie downs. For me, this is an on going situation, depending on how much the axles are twisted up and transferring that twist through the suspension to the truck frame. I suspect you will set and forget if you are staying off really bad roads. After putting the camper back on the truck for the next trip, I manually check the tie downs at intervals to see what has changed and readjusting the tension as needed (PRN).
One more thing. A good bet to keep your camper centered in the bed is some kind of centering system. I use the Lance Camper Centering Guides because that was what was available 15 years ago, and have had great luck with them. I've seen some much improved versions made by our own on this forum. When the camper shifts, side to side, it puts undue pull on one side's tie downs, and loosens the other side. Over time, this is not good.
THANK YOU!!!!!
I WILL check those bolts. And seek out those centering guides. I just hand tighten my turnbuckles. They warned me about overtightening so i dont. I DO check them at every stop though. If everything checks out, I guess Im just in for a "rockin' roll" experience. Not sure I'm thrilled with that. I will say there's PLENTY of space between the truck and cab over section.
Thats the fantasy-land so-called "dry weight". It means the shell with NOTHING in it. No water, no battery, no propane or even propane tanks, zero options (which can be the A/C, heater, appliances...)
Seriously, no 11' camper weights under 2000 pounds. It really is more like 4000. Go actually weigh it yourself, you'll see.
If large truck campers were that light, there would be none of the pages and pages of discussion of overload springs, air bags, sway bars, stiffer shocks, etc to beef up already stout pickups. 2000 is nothing, people would be carrying 11-footers on half-tons.
Straight up, 1895 pounds for that camper is comedy.
Never could figure out why manufacturers are not honest about actual weights.
I do get a kick out of the current crop of camper names. Seems the camper buzzword is Lite. Lite this and lite that. Nothing light about them except the name....
I thing the young lady should weigh her new camper. I bet she will be amazed and dismayed at the same time. An F250 is seriously overloaded with an 11 footer.... Don't know back then if the put GAWR on the door sticker but I bet she's way over on the back axle.
I LOVE these things. My truck AND my TC. So...real advice please. Cause Im about to be illegal and not give a rats ass if I am. Suggestions? I guess if my tires can handle 16000lbs Im safe as far as blowouts go. So I guess if I want to ruin my springs so be it? (Since youve all decided Im overweight.) (Again...no diet jokes lol)
Only then will you be able to address what modifications you need or don't need.
One thing I would do no matter what (seeing as you live in a hot climate) is get an add on transmission cooler. I run 2 Hayden Swirl-Kool coolers on my F350 7.3 and that may be overkill, but, heat will kill an automatic trans, especially when it's working hard all the time. My trans fluid temp never gets above 200 no matter how hard I'm running the truck. Additionally, I change my transmission fluid and filter at least yearly, sometimes more, depending on how many miles I run.
Your trans and my trans take Dexron-Mercon which is relatively inexpensive (compared to the synthetic stuff used today). I get it in 5 gallon pails from my jobber. Fluid is cheap. A new trans isn't.
While you are under there, might be a good idea to pull the level plugs on your differentials and stick your finger in the hole (s) if you have 4wd) and see if your hypoid oil is where it should be and if it's contaminated or not. If it's milky, it has water in it and needs changed.
Go weight heavy and light and then we all can talk about what if...
What were you supposed to do beforehand? Yes, take it to a scale and get it weighed. Obviously that is almost never a practical suggestion. What you REALLY needed to do was go into the whole deal with a little better understanding of the reality of camper weights and truck payloads. You may not have gone with this particular combination if you had realized how heavy it was.
What do you do now? Well, you can put a for sale sign on the camper and look for something lighter. You can put a for sale sign on the truck and try to find something heavier. You can throw caution to the wind and hit the road.
Since you've already hauled it you know how it handles to a degree. If you're happy with it, then make sure your maintenance is up to date, make sure your insurance premiums are paid up, and go camping.
You might consider some suspension upgrades to the truck if you don't already have them, as tires are only part of the puzzle. Options here include airbags, helper springs, or reworking the factory spring pack to eliminate any rear end sag you might be experiencing. The truck handles better when it sets level. Better shocks and a heavier sway bar will help with cornering and lane changes on the highway.
Go to a scale and weigh the thing, weigh the rear axle separately, divide by two, that's how much is on each rear tire. Find the fine print on the tire that tells the weight rating.
Remember that max weight rating is at max inflation, for heavy duty pickup tires thats usually 80 psi. If you're too heavy, physically larger wheels and tires can get you some "room" for your weight.
F250s have been hauling 11 foot campers since nineteen-O-nothing. It CAN do it.
However, I've said this a lot but here goes again, the first time you drive a dually with a large camper you'll never go back to a single rear wheel pickup again!
It won't have that creepy top-heavy scary feeling. That's the ultimate best way to go, and when you're talking about older models like you and I drive, they don't cost any more than single-wheel trucks.
You're fine, your truck is probably more capable at this point than most people's camper trucks are.
Your truck does indeed have the same axle as an F350, all the stuff you said the Ford people told you is right. A rear sway bar might be a nice thing to add if you haven't got one, there's an outfit called Hellwig that makes good ones, I use one myself. They don't cost a lot, there's really not much to them, and it'll help control the side to side sway.
And yes, I've been to Burning Man since back in the '90s, that's the primary reason I have a camper.
My avatar photo is my rig on the way there, that big cabin cruiser boat behind the camper is actually a land vehicle, what they call a "Mutant Vehicle". No longer seaworthy but it does a whole lot better on the desert than most people's boats do!!
Belly bars... those are a metal bar, usually square-tube, that goes under your truck from left to right and has brackets to attach it to the frame. Then you attach your camper tie downs to the ends of the bar. I love those, they're simple cheap easy and super effective.
This website appears to show them being available, for some reason they're hard to find.
http://www.billisrve.com/display.php?catid=1
They're pretty easy to make though. Torklift's price is crazy, I'd sooner weld up my own set.
Now if you really wanna know the ultimate best and BY FAR easiest way to deal with a camper, here's what I did. I searched until I found a deal on one, the price new is steep, but it's a total game changer:
https://youtu.be/xOy5VoYg8Xk
* This post was edited 06/09/17 05:59am by burningman *