Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Travel Trailers: Surge protector

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Topic: Surge protector

Posted By: crazyro on 05/13/17 07:21am

I know the best kind are the ones which would be wired into the system, but saw this today and wondered if it would be any good. Is this a "better than nothing" or "you get what you pay for" situation? There is also a digital version available. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[image]

Posted By: tvman44 on 05/13/17 07:23am

Save your money and buy a similar unit from Progressive Industries, besides being a superior unit PI has a life time warranty.

Papa Bob
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Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/13/17 07:30am

crazyro wrote:

You get what you pay for, which in this case isn't much. Yes, that particular model is a TRC surge protector but that's all it is - does nothing to protect your rig from the many electrical errors one can suffer with campsite power, particularly damaging low voltage. What you want is a fully featured EMS (Electrical Management System) that offers not only surge protection but protection from low / high voltage, reverse polarity, open neutral, open ground, etc, etc. TRC units have a one year warranty, those from Progressive have a lifetime warranty. It's your money, your choice. [emoticon]

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/13/17 07:32am

tvman44 wrote:

Save your money and buy a similar unit from Progressive Industries, besides being a superior unit PI has a life time warranty.

Disagree completely. A similar surge protector from Progressive may be "better" in that it has a lifetime warranty but it still won't offer protection from the many electrical errors one can suffer in any campground. Either invest in a fully featured EMS or don't bother at all.

Posted By: bobndot on 05/13/17 07:44am

Actually i was going to buy the same one in order to offer some kind of protection for my Hughes. Mfg website suggests it to be first in line from the pedestal, then comes my Hughes Autoformer then third in line, just before the TT the model 34830 which offers:

Shuts Off Power in Event of:
•Open Neutral
•Open Ground
•Low (132V) Voltage
•Thermal Line/Load Overtemperature
Indicates:

•Voltage and Amp Draw (RMS)
•Surge Failure (light indicates when surge protection has expired)
•Reverse Polarity (miswired pedestal, elevated ground voltage)
Features:

•2450 Joules surge protection
•6500 amps spike protection
•120 volts, 30 amps
•10/3 cord
- See more at: http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/portable-surge-guard-with-lcd-display-30-amp/81277&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&scid=scplp81277&sc_intid=81277?utm_campaign=SC_Shopping_Low&affiliateid=6338&gclid=CjwKEAjw3drIBRCOwfC-_qqyjQ8SJADvoWQpdC6_AnHNJKFREt_tJvYyugUYnsO5p2p2fQNLjPoTCBoClFDw_wcB#sthash.CgVo4hXQ.dpuf

If it helps , i based my thought on this thread (p2 TechWriter and Mexicowanderer )
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fusea........d/tid/28543300/srt/pa/pging/1/page/2.cfm

* This post was edited 05/13/17 07:51am by bobndot *

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/13/17 07:44am

crazyro wrote:

I know the best kind are the ones which would be wired into the system ...

And how do you "know" this? That portable surge protector you've illustrated is just that - a surge protector - and has no hard wire equivalent. Both TRC and Progressive do offer EMS units in both portable and hard wire versions but they're electrically equivalent, 'though delay for the Progressive hard wire models is user adjustable whereas delay for the portable versions is not. The only significant differences between portable and hard wire are the obvious - easier use with the portable but greater concern over potential theft. Regardless, whether your preference is portable or hard wire, you'll be far better served with a fully featured EMS unit such as a Progressive EMS-PT30X or the previous EMS-PT30C which are still in stock at many dealers.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/13/17 07:50am

bobndot wrote:

And that's exactly correct as you obviously don't want to be using an EMS before your Hughes. Having owned a TRC voltage regulator that failed and for which TRC refused to supply replacement parts I'd never again buy a TRC product and would always recommend Progressive which will supply replacement parts and/or repair for their products.

Posted By: CA Traveler on 05/13/17 08:03am

SoundGuy wrote:

tvman44 wrote:

Save your money and buy a similar unit from Progressive Industries, besides being a superior unit PI has a life time warranty.

The PI unit also has "better" surge protection.

For many years I had no protector until 2004 with a rig with significantly more electronics and I installed a full PI protector. Since then I've encountered high voltage (one time 160V), 2x times of reverse polarity and numerous times of low voltage.

Since 2004 I've never had a surge (or at least one that caused the PI unit to shut down) so for me a surge only protector doesn't have much value. But we all make choices.

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Bob

Posted By: GrandpaKip on 05/13/17 08:05am

I have used the PI surge protector for about 5 years with 2 different campers. It will tell you if a pedestal is miswired. I also have a volt meter plugged into an outlet. This is minimum protection. I intend to install the PI hardwired version with remote display in the near future.

Kip
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Posted By: bobndot on 05/13/17 08:14am

SoundGuy wrote:

bobndot wrote:

ah ha, ok thank you.

Posted By: DutchmenSport on 05/13/17 09:18am

I've been using one like that for over 3 years now. My camper is plugged in 24x7x365 as we are able to park it at home. I put it inside the cabinet where the trailer cord shoves into, shorted the cord and put on a new female end. I then plugged the protector in there and shove the protector female end out the hole. I then use another 30 amp extension cord outside the camper to plug into.

I have this set-up for over 3 years now. Plug in and forget. Either it's working real well, or it's not working at all, because we've never had problems with anything funky happening with our power. For us, it's worked very well. And like I said, plugged in almost 100% of the time for over 3 years now.

I recommend it, if you want protection without breaking the bank. Granted, it's not got all the bells and whistles like some of the more advanced ones, but for us, this works just fine.

[image]

Posted By: crazyro on 05/13/17 10:03am

SoundGuy wrote:

crazyro wrote:

I know the best kind are the ones which would be wired into the system ...

And how do you "know" this?

What I meant by "I know" is that an integrated system would be better than just a plug-in surge protector. Wasn't making a scientific statement. [emoticon]

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/13/17 10:31am

don't cheap out with the $99 specials, get a MULTI-FUNCTION surge protector. $250 and up. as has been said, you want/need more than simple protection from surges. and you CAN get suitable ones in a portable.
bumpy

Posted By: myredracer on 05/13/17 10:44am

The PI EMS is the only one to get! Unfortunately TRC causes much confusion by labelling their equivalent a "Surge Guard".

Besides some already noted reasons, it shuts down at 104 volts as opposed to the Surge Guard @ 102. Even 104 is a bit too low IMO. The PI is made in the US as opposed to Ch*na for the TRC. The lifetime warranty of the PI is simply worth it's weight in gold. I believe 2 or 3 specs on the PI are better if you look at them in detail side-side.

Our PI EMS has only shut us down once and I am really glad it did because we had low voltage and a simultaneous open ground. Low voltage isn't lethal but an open ground can be. Low voltage is probably the most common electrical issue by far. Besides getting an EMS, another useful tool is a permanent voltmeter inside, either a plug-in or hardwire LED type.

Note: the hardwire Surge Guard carries a warning This Surge Guard device must be installed by a licensed electrician or by an RV dealer. So don't even think of installing it yourself. [emoticon]

My preference is the hardwire version. You won't forget it at the pedestal, it won't walk away, you eliminate an additional plug/connector connection and it's always there looking after you (even at home).

Posted By: Ron3rd on 05/13/17 10:51am

crazyro wrote:

Actually, there is nothing wrong with the external type like you show in the photo. The internal "hardwired" type is not necessarily better IMO, just more convenient. I use the old style external Progressive Industries in the big black box with the digital readout. I've had it for about 2 years. I think PI replaced that model with something else. PI units have a lifetime warranty

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Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/13/17 11:01am

myredracer wrote:

Note: the hardwire Surge Guard carries a warning This Surge Guard device must be installed by a licensed electrician or by an RV dealer. So don't even think of installing it yourself. [emoticon]

give me a break, not rocket science to fasten one in. just a CYA warning IMHO
bumpy

Posted By: bobndot on 05/13/17 11:46am

Bumpyroad wrote:

myredracer wrote:

Note: the hardwire Surge Guard carries a warning This Surge Guard device must be installed by a licensed electrician or by an RV dealer. So don't even think of installing it yourself. [emoticon]

give me a break, not rocket science to fasten one in. just a CYA warning IMHO
bumpy

Maybe the winking eye means something [emoticon]

Posted By: myredracer on 05/13/17 11:53am

Bumpyroad wrote:

myredracer wrote:

Note: the hardwire Surge Guard carries a warning This Surge Guard device must be installed by a licensed electrician or by an RV dealer. So don't even think of installing it yourself. [emoticon]

give me a break, not rocket science to fasten one in. just a CYA warning IMHO
bumpy

It was a snide joke, if that's what you meant... [emoticon]

In comparison, PI only "recommends" using an electrician or an RV dealer so maby they neglected to hire a lawyer? I did the hardwire installation myself several years ago and nothing has blowed up yet. [emoticon]

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/13/17 01:24pm

myredracer wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

myredracer wrote:

Note: the hardwire Surge Guard carries a warning This Surge Guard device must be installed by a licensed electrician or by an RV dealer. So don't even think of installing it yourself. [emoticon]

give me a break, not rocket science to fasten one in. just a CYA warning IMHO
bumpy

It was a snide joke, if that's what you meant... [emoticon]

remember people of all persuasions read these comments. some may take your comment seriously.
bumpy

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/13/17 02:35pm

DutchmenSport wrote:

I've been using one like that for over 3 years now.

I recommend it, if you want protection without breaking the bank. Granted, it's not got all the bells and whistles like some of the more advanced ones, but for us, this works just fine.

Protection from what? Surges are just one part of the story and it's much more likely one will suffer any one of a number of other electrical failures - low / high voltage, open neutral, open ground, reverse polarity, etc, to name but a few. I typically will have my Progressive EMS-HW30C shut down several times each season while we're camping and just as often when plugged in here at the house. Any of these simple surge protectors which may monitor for some line errors but do nothing about it are in fact next to useless. Ever see that commercial for LIfelock? - bank robbery in place, bank robbery monitor declares there's a robbery, but when asked by a terrified customer if he's going to do anything about it he replies that he's just a monitor, not a police officer. [emoticon]

Same with these simple surge protectors - they may monitor for certain line errors but they do nothing about it. [emoticon]

In every case a full function EMS with surge protection is FAR superior as it not only monitors for errors but will do something about it when it does detect an error - instantly shut down power to the trailer. These additional features are not "bells and whistles" but rather essentials.

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Posted By: CA Traveler on 05/13/17 03:14pm

I'm so glad I have a a HW50C full protector. It won't connect the power if the pedestal has a problem and it will later shut down in a few milliseconds if a problem occurs.

My 160V incident occurred as I was going to bed and without the HW50C I have no doubt everything on standby like MW, TV, HW, charger etc would have been toast. Instead I had a high and short stress moment until I could get the power cord pulled. I knew what was happening because I saw the 160V right on the inside monitor.

I'm sure I was quite a sight running outside at night dressed in whatever...

Posted By: CA Traveler on 05/13/17 03:17pm

The HW50C paid for itself in the first year and then it's been totally free for the last 12 years. [emoticon]

Posted By: Acdii on 05/13/17 04:37pm

Look around, maybe you can find a discontinued model, the 34520 was discontinued so they are discounted pretty good. Got mine for $141. It will not connect power until it verifies voltage, polarity and ground, then it will connect power, that and the surge protection is what you need.

The problem I have, they can't be mounted horizontally, so I have to figure out a way to mount it under the refer.

Posted By: rbpru on 05/13/17 10:13pm

I wonder how many people have actually had their surge protectors prevent anything except odd wiring.

I was at an State Park where my protector showed that on one side of the road the park power was wired wrong; the other side showed okay. Based on the occupancy this did not seem to pose a problem. I chose the properly wired side because I had a choice of spots.

Also how many Joules is enough? Pick a number and why not twice that amount or half that amount?

How do you know how much is enough.

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Posted By: CA Traveler on 05/13/17 10:37pm

rbpru wrote:

Some don't know or care about reverse polarity if that is what you are referring to. But the higher safety risk exists with reverse polarity.

There are not anywhere enough Joules to protect against lightning which is likely not possible.

Although my PI unit has the highest Joule protection that is not why I have it.

We all make choices and a simple surge protector is not on my list, full power management is my concern.

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/14/17 04:51am

Acdii wrote:

I also need a delayed restart to protect AC compressor, etc.
bumpy

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/14/17 05:50am

JMO but I suspect 9 out of 10 - or perhaps even 99 out of 100 [emoticon]

- who buy a simple surge protector such as that mentioned by the OP buy it for the wrong reason - price. [emoticon]

These simple surge protectors do exist for a reason, bobndot being one of few who does have a legitimate use - to surge protect his expensive Hughes Autoformer voltage regulator, a case in which one obviously can't use an EMS with low voltage shutdown before the VR.

While surge protection is better than no protection at all I likewise suspect most who own a simple surge protector are using it incorrectly. In an earlier post DutchmenSport said -

"I've been using one like that for over 3 years now. My camper is plugged in 24x7x365 as we are able to park it at home. I put it inside the cabinet where the trailer cord shoves into, shorted the cord and put on a new female end. I then plugged the protector in there and shove the protector female end out the hole. I then use another 30 amp extension cord outside the camper to plug into.

I have this set-up for over 3 years now. Plug in and forget. Either it's working real well, or it's not working at all, because we've never had problems with anything funky happening with our power."

In reality lots of "funky" things have been happening with his input power - he's just not aware of it because his surge protector doesn't have the ability to do anything about it. If in fact he's leaving this surge protector permanently plugged in then he's using it incorrectly, just as I suspect most who own a unit like this also use theirs incorrectly. Since this unit can only monitor for various line errors but has no ability to do anything about it one should always plug it into shore power without the trailer plugged into it. That way, if a line source error is detected and displayed by virtue of a combination of lights on the front panel the owner will avoid passing that error on to the trailer. If one simply leaves the trailer permanently plugged into the surge protector then whatever error it detects will be passed instantly on to the trailer since it has no ability to disconnect power to it's output whenever an error is detected.

The bottom line is you get what you pay for. These simple surge protectors only monitor for error but have no ability to do anything about it - for that you want a full feature EMS.

Posted By: CavemanCharlie on 05/14/17 06:51pm

I suppose it depends on where you camp. I have had one of the simple cheap ones for 5 years. It did kick out on me once, I don't know why. I'm happy enough with it.

How dirty of electricity do some of you have ? I have a simple surge protector on my computer too. Most people I know around here don't even use one for that. The electric company has countless protections on their lines. And, here in MN all electrical wiring has countless numbers of regulations and inspectors to make sure everything works OK. I've never heard of anyone having a problem because of bad power,,, in my area.

I guess it all depends on how much risk you personally want to take.

Posted By: rbpru on 05/14/17 07:21pm

I will admit, I use my surge protector to monitor polarity, Twice I have found errors and picked another spot. Both were State Parks, one in IN the other in IL. We camp off season so we can usually choose our camp site.

Now for the real world, if you arrive at a campsite with the family on a busy weekend and are assigned a campsite, there is not much you can do.

Explaining the issue to a Ranger or summer help probably will not help much.

Posted By: daka320 on 05/14/17 09:08pm

Been using the EMS-PT30C for 4 yrs now. Just plug it in, secure it, then plug in your rv. I throw it in the front pass thru of our tt and forget about it till the next trip. Been rained on numerous times. Bought it at online at Camping World when it was on sale. Well worth the $$$.

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Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/15/17 05:36am

CavemanCharlie wrote:

A classic response, typical of those who really don't understand just how frequently shore power does fail to meet required standards. It's not just a matter of shore power being "dirty", whatever that means, but being aware of these errors which do happen with regularity. Fact is, power vagaries occur all the time, from surges and spikes to over / under voltage to loss of ground. Add to that wiring errors such as reverse polarity, open neutral, no ground, created when the local campground maintenance person miswires a pedestal - dangerous scenarios which in some cases can kill. A simple surge protector may warn you of an open ground but that only serves a purpose if you actually look at the warning display and do something about it - i.e. not plug the trailer in. DutchmenSport's use of his own simple surge protector - leaving his trailer plugged into his SP 24/7 - is a classic case of how not to use one of these simple surge protectors as it has no ability to do anything about a missing ground, open neutral, incorrect polarity, etc - it can only warn you there is an error but does nothing to protect the trailer (and it's occupants) if it's already plugged into the surge protector.

Quote:

I guess it all depends on how much risk you personally want to take.

At least on this count you're absolutely correct. [emoticon]

* This post was edited 05/15/17 05:43am by SoundGuy *

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/15/17 05:55am

CavemanCharlie wrote:

I would bet that your local power company has a more reliable bit of juice than some home handyman slapped together RV park. yep, that park probably passed with flying colors, but that was 35 years ago and it has been slapped together since then to increase sites, to 50 amp, etc.
bumpy

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/15/17 07:27am

CavemanCharlie wrote:

How dirty of electricity do some of you have ? I have a simple surge protector on my computer too. Most people I know around here don't even use one for that. The electric company has countless protections on their lines. And, here in MN all electrical wiring has countless numbers of regulations and inspectors to make sure everything works OK. I've never heard of anyone having a problem because of bad power,,, in my area.

Bumpyroad wrote:

I would bet that your local power company has a more reliable bit of juice than some home handyman slapped together RV park.

Shore power anomalies aren't just about what the "local power company" supplies but also about errors that may exist within the park. It's also about spikes & surges created within the park by users themselves, something as simple as your neighbour's A/C unit triggering on / off. Anyone who believes shore power being fed to any trailer is as pristine as CavemanCharlie suggests would be sorely disappointed to learn that this is anything but the case. Just because you're not aware of these issues doesn't mean they're not happening - they are, and the best solution is to do what you can to protect yourself and your rig from these many incoming power vagaries by investing in a full featured surge protector / EMS. No, an EMS is not a 100% guarantee that nothing untoward will ever happen to your rig but it is a darned sight better than doing nothing at all AND is FAR superior to using just a simple surge protector.

Posted By: crazyro on 05/15/17 09:24am

Thank you for all the info folks. Sounds like I should buy this type of surge protector only to be used as a testing device before actually plugging in the TT into the post and not actually using it. Or maybe leaving it plugged in after all checks out. We don't camp a lot (we're still new to this whole thing, have done one trip and have three more scheduled but will still only camp a handful of times every year) so price is unfortunately a big consideration.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/15/17 10:15am

crazyro wrote:

Sounds like I should buy this type of surge protector only to be used as a testing device before actually plugging in the TT into the post and not actually using it. Or maybe leaving it plugged in after all checks out.

If you insist on buying this type of simple surge protector and not a full featured EMS then absolutely, plug it in first without the trailer plugged into it, then if no source power errors are indicated plug your trailer into the surge protector and leave it plugged in during the duration of your stay. Just keep in mind that some line conditions can change, most notably excessively low voltage that can damage electrical devices in your rig. An EMS will detect this and instantly disconnect power to the rig, a simple surge protector will not and you will be at risk of damaging your rig - your choice. FWIW, Progressive sets their low voltage threshold @ 104 vac, TRC is 102 vac.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/15/17 10:29am

To the OP ...

If you're still inclined to discount the argument that source power errors are much more common that many would think and that investing in a full featured EMS is an unnecessary expense you might want to take a look at pics of my own Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C. A series of 10 pics start here, including 2 pics which clearly show an open ground event and another showing a low voltage event. Pundits can deny all they want, reality is I see numerous errors throughout each season, both while camping and while the trailer is parked here at home and plugged in 24/7. An EMS, while not perfect, is IMO an absolute essential for any RV owner that ever intends to plug into shore power. Invest in an EMS and the first time it saves your bacon you too will agree. [emoticon]

Posted By: crazyro on 05/15/17 11:12am

SoundGuy wrote:

Nice setup! That doesn't look like it would be hard to install. Some of the stuff I've seen required a lot more wiring.
I'm not discounting the need for an EMS at all. Honestly, I've never even considered any type of protection until I saw the unit I posted come through my email. As mentioned, I'm still learning about the whole RV'ing thing and slowly but surely adding things to my arsenal. Thank you for sharing the photos.

Posted By: gmw photos on 05/15/17 11:48am

In the five years I have been using my TRC unit, it has shut down power four times that I know of. It could be it shut it down more times, such as when I was away from the trailer.

If nothing else, I see these things as good insurance from a electrical safety standpoint for the humans involved. It could save a person from being shocked due to a miswired pedestal.

Of course it may also save some electrical components in the camper too, but that pales in comparison to it's value as a safety net for the people involved in the RV.

Posted By: rbpru on 05/15/17 12:00pm

I have put surge protectors in the same class as chicken soup, it can't hurt.

But their usefulness is still open to debate.

Sure it is handy to know that the electrical box you plug into is wired correctly, but what if it is not? I have selected alternate spots when they were available. However, if it is a popular CG and an alternate spot is not available am I going to leave? Probably not, I will just plug in and see if it powers the TT like everybody else did.

Just how many Joules of protection do you need, 1000, 3000, 5000, 10,000? who knows? A Joule is 1/3600 of a watt hour so it is a unit of power. Just how many Joules have snuck down my shore power before I bought a surge protector I do not know. How many have snuck down my line after I plugged into the surge protector I do not know that either.

What is the protector protecting? The Microwave and TV are the only items that would have sensitive electronics on the 120 volt line. The frig and water heater electronic controls are 12 volt. They both use 120 volt resistive elements and are not typically bothered by line transients.

So like must folks, I plug in my surge suppressor and rest safe and secure in the knowledge that my shore power line is Joule free.

If a lighting bolt strikes it will not even make a good fuse.

Posted By: delwhjr on 05/15/17 12:01pm

As an electronics/computer professional when people say they don't need any type of power protection, I just smile and say okay. They are the ones who eventually will need service and wonder why things failed so soon. To those who say I've never had a problem, good for you, I hope your luck continues.

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Posted By: myredracer on 05/15/17 12:04pm

Electrical problems at CGs are often the result of poorly maintained electrical systems and components, if they even get maintained at all. Many CGs have staff that do electrical work who are not trained & licensed to do any electrical work. Low voltage is usually a result of the NEC electrical code min. wiring requirements not being able to handle all the high-demand RVs of today and high occupancy rates in CGs. Can also be due to a high demand placed on power company systems in the heat of the summer with homes & businesses all running AC units that drags down the system voltage. Spike & surges are often caused by lightning but can also be due to things like a vehicle accident knocking over a utility pole, a storm or a tree falling over from water-logged roots.

Every year the forums have reports of their 30 amp RVs being fried from an accidental 240 volt connection. This often happens even when a homeowner hires a licensed electrician to install a dedicated RV recept. and they don't pay attention to what they are connecting to and read what's on a 30 amp RV recept. An open neutral can also do serious damage to a 50 amp RV and can happen in a CG or at home. AN EMS would prevent this.

To think you will never be a victim of an electrical problem while plugged into a pedestal at a CG is like thinking you will never be in a vehicle accident, never have a serious illness, never get cancer from smoking or never get aids from unprotected **x. Ask an electrical engineer who RVs if they think you're fine with never using an EMS.

Mike Sokol has a blog called the "no shock zone" and has some excellent articles on the dangers of pedestal issues and what causes them here and here. The most dangerous condition of all is an open ground which can result in a "hot skin" and can kill as this tragic story illustrates.

In regards to low voltage, if you know you have low voltage near 105 and lower (with voltmeter or LED readout inside) and don't have an EMS, just because your AC unit will start, don't think all is okay. Damage is cumulative over time, not instantaneous, and will cause premature failure of the AC. New AC units aren't cheap.

Electrical inspection authorities cannot force a CG/RV park to upgrade their systems to the latest NEC edition or force them to repair old tired & worn out components unless something is clearly dangerous. For ex., this terrible looking pedestal was in a CG of around 300 sites and every one looked the same. Had to prop our cord's plug up with a stick so it wouldn't fall out. This CG should redo their entire system but they won't.

[image]

* This post was edited 05/15/17 12:55pm by myredracer *

Posted By: four22 on 05/15/17 12:15pm

Here's an option from progressive.

Hopefully its a decent one because that is the one I bought... [emoticon]

4.8/5 stars with 600+ reviews is decent though

Protector

Posted By: myredracer on 05/15/17 12:37pm

four22 wrote:

Here's an option from progressive.

Hopefully its a decent one because that is the one I bought... [emoticon]

4.8/5 stars with 600+ reviews is decent though

Protector

As long as you know that one only protects against surges and only indicates if you have an open ground, open neutral, reverse polarity or mis-wired pedestal condition. If you are going to use it, at least plug it into a pedestal by itself to check the lights for a problem before plugging the TT into it. (Note that you should not plug your TT in while the power is live, so shut the breaker off first, then back on.)

An open ground or neutral can still happen any time after you are plugged into a pedestal so don't assume you are 100 percent safe. We had an intermittent open ground at a CG once so it can happen.

Still better than nothing as mentioned somewhere above, but for the extra $150-200, I would have sprung for the top of the line PI EMS.

* This post was edited 05/15/17 12:46pm by myredracer *

Posted By: krobbe on 05/15/17 12:57pm

For anyone that is not sure of the difference between a SmartSurgeProtector(SSP) and an ElectricalManagementSystem(EMS), here is a chart of ProgressiveIndustries models with their capabilities.
The EMS will interrupt power on low/high voltage, and when other various faults happen.
The SSP will provide surge protection, but will not interrupt power on the various faults. Only detect them. You know, like the security monitor in the tv commercial.
[image]

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Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/15/17 01:58pm

rbpru wrote:

What is the protector protecting? The Microwave and TV are the only items that would have sensitive electronics on the 120 volt line.

Converter will fry in an instant, along with any other 120 vac device that may be plugged in and powered at the time. Several years ago, before I learned about the value of protecting our rig with an EMS, we lost the Dometic MW in our KZ Spree, I suspect because of either a surge / spike or a high voltage event. [emoticon]

Local dealer has also replaced several electric fireplaces. Last year he had a brand new Coachmen returned for "warranty" service days after being delivered ... turns out the new owner had a "qualified" electrician install a 30 amp drop at his house for the new rig. You guessed it - electrician wired it for 240 vac so when the owner plugged in $2000 in damage was the result. [emoticon]

Why Coachmen covered this under warranty when this failure was clearly owner induced is a mystery [emoticon]

... dealer repaired the damage but warned the owner to not return with the same problem again. [emoticon]

An EMS would have prevented ALL of this.

Mike Sokol's articles talk a lot about HOT SKIN, the result of an open ground. For whatever reason I notice that when my EMS disconnects it often sees an open ground when power is initially restored and as a result will refuse to reconnect it to the trailer until that open ground is cleared. Hot skin I can do without and for that alone an EMS is unquestionably worth the cost. [emoticon]

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/15/17 03:36pm

crazyro wrote:

I assume your RV doesn't have an Air Conditioner, TV, microwave, any electronic equipment? then yeah, go cheap.
bumpy

Posted By: rbpru on 05/15/17 09:11pm

I still have yet to have anyone tell me how they know their surge protector worked or is still working.

I know some of the high dollar units will tell you, about high and low voltage but do they kick out when a surge occurs or what?

Posted By: CA Traveler on 05/15/17 09:30pm

rbpru wrote:

I still have yet to have anyone tell me how they know their surge protector worked or is still working.

The HW50C displays 11 different PREVIOUS errors PLUS current error if any.

I know some of the high dollar units will tell you, about high and low voltage but do they kick out when a surge occurs or what?

How can they provide protection if they don't disconnect power?

My Power Protector is NOT just a "surge" protector - you've been schooled.

Posted By: CA Traveler on 05/15/17 09:40pm

rbpru wrote:

or is still working.

Installed in 2004 and now in my second MH.

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/16/17 04:13am

rbpru wrote:

you previously stated that you have moved when your SP gave a message of a problem. I would guess then that yours worked.
now, none of them (I guess) will stop a direct lightning strike, but I do know that years back at a campground in Austin lightning hit awfully close and rattled the dishes and after that when I looked around and I was about the only RV that had lights on. But to prove a negative, very difficult.
bumpy

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/16/17 05:12am

rbpru wrote:

Whether a simple surge protector or "high dollar" EMS any surge exceeding the rating of the unit will destroy the MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) used to direct excessive current flow to ground. Progressive units will indicate if surge failure has occurred and no voltage will be outputted. Clearly, if the unit still is outputting correct voltage then it's still working. [emoticon]

If the unit has failed all it takes is a call to Progressive to request repair under the unit's lifetime warranty - in the case of a hard wire unit which is field serviceable Progressive will mail the parts to you.

This is an inside view of my own Progressive EMS-HW30C ...

[image]

It contains two circuit boards - at the top left is the surge protection circuit board containing MOVs ... in any case where these may have sustained a damaging hit it's simply a matter of removing the damaged board and replacing it with another that Progressive will mail to me at no cost under the lifetime warranty.

At the top right is the EMS circuit board that monitors for any line errors and should any be detected causes the contactor in the centre of the pic to open and thereby disconnect power to it's output and therefore the trailer. This circuit board also is field replaceable, again at no cost under the Progressive lifetime warranty.

I've not opened a Progressive portable EMS-PT30C as it's sealed and considered by the manufacturer to not be field serviceable so if damaged it must be returned to Progressive for repair. That said, it functions electrically the same as the hard wire version so there's little reason for the interior parts to be any different.

A simple surge protector such as that mentioned by the OP contains only a surge protection circuit board with MOVs - no EMS circuit detection, no contactor. The reason an EMS costs so much more should therefore be obvious. [emoticon]

* This post was last edited 05/16/17 06:05am by SoundGuy *

Posted By: gmw photos on 05/16/17 07:35am

rbpru wrote:

On two separate occasions I wills say my TRC "worked" that I know of. Once it shut off due to low voltage. It was a crowded, older CG in Texas. Since I noticed it shut the trailer off, I went out to the pedestal with my little plug in meter and plugged it in at the ped.
Voltage was around 100V. I just unplugged for the rest of the afternoon, and switched my fridge to propane.

On one other occasion, there was a storm pretty far in the distance at night. Far enough I could see the flashes of lightning, but could not hear the thunder. I am "guessing" here, but with one flash of lightning, the TRC shut the trailer off. My guess is it saw a spike on the line, but that's all it is...a guess. Could have been coincidence. That time, again, I just went out and disconnected and left it unplugged overnight since the forecast was for storms. Again, I have no idea if that was really what caused it to trip out, and further, I have no idea if that if it was a spike, would have hurt anything or not, had I not had the TRC in the line.

Again though, as I and several others have said in this thread, the "people safety" aspect of this device makes it worth it to me. They are only $300 or so....that's cheap in my mind for a safety device that could save you from a shock.

So to answer the question, mine has shut off for a couple of the reasons it's supposed to, and still goes thru a normal start-up procedure when I plug it in. So I'd say "it's working".

Posted By: CA Traveler on 05/16/17 07:56am

I'd guess that PI wants the portable units returned because they need to be properly sealed for outside usage.

Posted By: westom on 05/16/17 08:05am

SoundGuy wrote:

Whether a simple surge protector or "high dollar" EMS any surge exceeding the rating of the unit will destroy the MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) used to direct excessive current flow to ground.

That is not what a Progressive does. Word 'surge' has numerous unrelated meanings. Some call reverse polarity a surge. Some call an undervoltage a surge. The Progressive disconnects power when some types of anomalies (surges) exist. MOVs are irrelevant to those anomalies.

Nothing can report on MOV states (good or failed). Normal MOV failure (degradation) is not detected. Catastrophic (completely unacceptable) failure sometimes (might be) reported.

Protector MOVs are ineffective for that other type of surge if not mounted on (attached at) the pole. If mounted inside, it is too far from earth to be effective. MOV type protection is not effective by disconnecting power.

Surges such as lightning (or created by stray cars, tree rodents, etc) are irrelevant to typical campground protectors. AC anomalies such as overvoltage, floating ground, reverse polarity, etc are its concern. Protection from this type of surge is to disconnect. Obviously, MOVs cannot do what Progressive type protectors as designed to protect from.

"Electrical problems at CGs are often the result of poorly maintained electrical systems and components, if they even get maintained at all." That is what a campground protector addresses. Completely different from sometime, also called a surge protector, does for homes. Expression 'surge protector' defines many completely different and unrelated devices. Discussion must detail each separate function since all those devices, call protectors, are so different.

Posted By: rbpru on 05/16/17 08:27am

Okay thanks, that is what I wanted to know. If a surge pops the MOVs, the unit will no longer work.

I have one of the less expensive units that I use to check for proper wiring. It is rated for 1080 Joules. When I use it I often wondered how I would know if it was still working.

If I was only worried about polarity I could check that at my outside 120 volt outlet with a $10.00 gizmo from Home Depot.

I will say the little Camco unit is the simplest to use, but the power box door will not close completely.

Posted By: westom on 05/16/17 08:48am

rbpru wrote:

Okay thanks, that is what I wanted to know. If a surge pops the MOVs, the unit will no longer work.

MOVs can pop. Progressive protective functions still operate.

MOVs (even in completely different devices called protectors) must never pop. That is an unacceptable (catastrophic) failure even described on page one of MOV datasheets. MOVs must be designed into a protector so that MOVs disconnect; and all other items (protector circuits, interior appliances, etc) remain connected to AC power.

Described are MOVs that will only absorb 360 joules and never more than 720 joules. All appliances make such tiny surges irrelevant. Protection inside every appliance is more robust. Those joules are doing near zero protection - especially from potentially destructive surges that can be tens or hundreds of thousands of joules. But that is a rare anomaly. How often is a home dishwasher and dimmer switches replaced every year?

Reverse polarity can even be reported by a $6 three light tester. Floating ground may also be detected. But let's be clear about this. That tester can only report defects. It cannot report good wiring. And it can do nothing (fast enough) to avert damage.

Faults that cause concern can happen at any time. A Progressive, et al type protector will (must) disconnect fast enough to avert damage. And remain disconnected until the anomaly is corrected. No manual testers can perform that essential function.

Nothing can disconnect from lightning (and other similar anomalies) fast enough. But those anomalies are quite rare. Frequent type anomalies are what Progressive, et al devices protect from - by disconnecting AC power.

* This post was edited 05/16/17 08:55am by westom *

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/16/17 10:03am

it never fails to amaze me.
folks will spend $700 for a "smart" phone, $9,000 for full body paint, but cringe about $250 for a surge protector or $1,000 for a toad braking system.

and yes the term Surge Protector is not totally accurate but neither is scotch tape, xerox copies etc. terms that are used generically.
bumpy

Posted By: rbpru on 05/16/17 10:23am

Westom,

So if a 3000 Joule spike hit my 1080 Joule rated protector;
1. Would it ruin my protector?
2. Would I see any signs that told me if my protector was no long providing its 1080 Joule rated protection?

Like I said, it is handy for checking polarity, I would like to think that in addition it is providing some level of protection. If there is no way to tell, then it is little more than a feel good device.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/16/17 11:02am

SoundGuy wrote:

Whether a simple surge protector or "high dollar" EMS any surge exceeding the rating of the unit will destroy the MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) used to direct excessive current flow to ground.

westom wrote:

Well here we go again, yet another of your over complicated technical replies that almost no one else will understand, or in fact even care to understand. [emoticon]

The point of this discussion is that there are significant differences between so-called "simple surge protectors" and more costly EMS units that not only include surge protection but offer features designed to protect an RV from the many vagaries encountered with park power systems. How an EMS does this is of little concern to the vast majority, the only important issue being that it DOES. [emoticon]

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/16/17 11:29am

SoundGuy wrote:

Well here we go again, yet another of your over complicated technical replies that almost no one else will understand, or in fact even care to understand. [emoticon]

eloquent in its simplicity. sums it up nicely, if somebody wants to cheap out, go right ahead. but don't try to convince folks that it is the smart decision. JMHO
bumpy

Posted By: delwhjr on 05/16/17 11:53am

MOVs in surge devices degrade over time. If you have a catastrophic failure in a MOV you could be looking at a fire issue. Most of the better surge devices have a built in circuit to indicate MOV failure. True surge suppressors should be replaced after a period of time because of the MOV degradation.
Regardless of which one you get make sure it is UL listed to guaranty it will do the job.

Posted By: myredracer on 05/16/17 01:13pm

Nothing wrong with getting technical about MOVs or anything else to do with EMS units. Who knows, maybe someone out there might prevent some expensive damage armed with a little more info. Having MOVs is a good thing but it's possible a poor connection can affect it's performance and even still result in some damage in the event of a high surge current.

One thing I don't like about the PI EMS is that they want you to connect the incoming and outgoing ground wires using a small nut/bolt connection and ring terminals which could possibly loosen or not provide a good connection. I've read of a few cases where an EMS went up in smoke & flames after a lightning strike or surge and I suspect it could potentially have been due to a poor ground connection. Photo below shows a 30 amp hardwired model and note that this owner simply wrapped a ground wire around one of the studs. I spliced the incoming and outgoing ground wires together using a wire nut ("vibration-proof" type) and then ran a ground wire from that over to one of the studs (using a ring terminal).

Also, if you were to look closely at their contactor terminals as 2nd photo shows, they are a square opening and you are trying to tighten a round solid wire against flat surfaces which could also not be a good connection and could loosen over time. I ran stranded #10 cable from the EMS to the converter/panel and short lengths of #10 stranded between the contactor and incoming romex cable inside the EMS to improve the connection.

[image]

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/16/17 01:50pm

myredracer wrote:

Nothing wrong with getting technical about MOVs or anything else to do with EMS units. Who knows, maybe someone out there might prevent some expensive damage armed with a little more info.

a little more info is don't think you are buying a Prevost when you pay Bounder prices.
bumpy

Posted By: westom on 05/16/17 01:56pm

SoundGuy wrote:

Well here we go again, yet another of your over complicated technical replies that almost no one else will understand, or in fact even care to understand.

Consumers who beg to be scammed do not want to know how anything works. Then assume more money means a better product. Reality: especially with protectors. A highest price may mean an inferior product.

Everyone (should have) learned this in school. If something is new, then at least three rereads (even for a genius) are required to grasp it. Every sentence in a previous post was at a layman simple level. But some never even learned high school science - then assume it is too complex.

Another grasped concepts and asked a relevant question. An incoming 3000 joule surge may catastrophically destroy those 360 or 720 joules (in a 1080 rated protector). Catastrophic failure (or protectors that degrade in decades) is ineffective protection. Best called a scam. Effective protectors never protect by failing. And remain functional for decades.

A same surge current incoming to a protector is also outgoing into camper appliances. Robust protection, routinely inside appliances, makes that current irrelevant - causes no damage. Yes, some protectors are grossly undersized to fail; to get the naive to promote more sales. They market to consumers who cannot bother to learn what a protector must do.

Meanwhile, that first (above) type of surge is rare. It might occur once every seven years to household appliances constantly connected to AC mains. Is significantly less probable in campers.

A completely different anomaly, called a surge, is the concern. These completely different anomalies are averted by disconnecting. As stated previously and so layman simple that even high school students can learn it. But again, if these different anomalies were not understood, then multiple rereads are required.

A protector that might protect from the above first type of surge must connect within single digit feet to earth ground. Protector mounted on and connected at the pole can make that low impedance connection. Protector is not inside a camper. So, yes, that protector (distant from camper appliance) can make MOVs effective. But again, that is not the anomaly that so often causes problems.

Each informed (high school educated) consumer first learns which anomalies are a concern. Then selects from fewer items (call surge protectors) that address that anomaly. Progressive is highly recommended because it addresses certain anomalies (that MOVs ignore and do nothing to avert). Some anomalies that cause concern are overvoltage, undervoltage, floating safety ground (not to be confused with earth ground), and reverse polarity. All are ignored by MOVs. A protector for campers should specifically address (avert) those four anomalies.

An informed consumer selects a protector by first identifying the relevant electrical anomaly - with numbers. Consumers who want to be scammed complain that learning is too hard. Nothing here is complex - only new.

Posted By: westom on 05/16/17 02:01pm

delwhjr wrote:

Regardless of which one you get make sure it is UL listed to guaranty it will do the job.

UL says nothing about an item's performance. UL is only about one thing - human safety. Does not matter how good or inferior it performs. UL's only tests for human safety threats such as fire, electrocution, etc.

Performance guarantees come from numbers such as manufacturer specifications. And by first identifying what it is suppose to do (or avert).

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/16/17 02:21pm

westom wrote:

delwhjr wrote:

Regardless of which one you get make sure it is UL listed to guaranty it will do the job.

from your research which of the ones mentioned is best. now is the $90 one as good as the $288 one? how about some practical information?
bumpy

Posted By: myredracer on 05/16/17 03:25pm

westom wrote:

delwhjr wrote:

Regardless of which one you get make sure it is UL listed to guaranty it will do the job.

When it comes to RVs, there is no standard a surge suppressor has to comply with other than UL/CSA for safety? Not IEEE, IEC, ANSI, or any other org. standard?

I see the PI says their surge protection will respond within 1 nanosecond but I don't see anything in the Surge Guard data. PI is rated to handle 1790 joules vs 2450 for the TRC (comparing 30 amp hardwire models) and PI is rated 44,000 amps "surge" current while the TRC is rate 6500 "spike" amps per MOV. What does this all mean to the average consumer? Where do the numbers even come from - the particular components they simply happen to be using?

Posted By: delwhjr on 05/16/17 03:59pm

westom wrote:

delwhjr wrote:

Regardless of which one you get make sure it is UL listed to guaranty it will do the job.

You need to update your knowledge of UL. They do each of the following type of testing:
UL Listing - Safety
UL Classification - Standards for other organizations
UL Performance Verification - National and International Standards, even Propriety Standards
UL Component Recognition - Individual components tested to standards
UL Functional Safety Certification - Usage Safety

Posted By: Travel'n'Wrestle on 05/16/17 06:21pm

Just purchased our first TT and ordered the PI HW30C. I am a little concerned hearing that the grounds could shake loose. Especially considering in my Jay Flight 26BH my only access to the junction box and power cord is behind the fuse box...which is under the fridge [emoticon]

I won't have easy access to the unit to check those grounds. What exactly did you do to shore them up?

2015 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z-71 LTZ Midnight Edition
2017 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH

Posted By: rbpru on 05/16/17 08:23pm

From all this discussion I have ascertained that there is no way to know if my surge protector is working or not. Also if it is over stressed there is a chance it could over heat and become a potential fire source.

So I guess I will just leave my inexpensive unit plugged into the box safe outside the TT.

Since my unit still determines proper polarity and the chance of a surge damaging my non-electronic gear is just slightly more than my chances of being carried away by giant condors the next time I visit California; I will put it in the "unexplained" files and go fishing.

If I worried about all the what-ifs, I would have stopped camping years ago.

Posted By: Travel'n'Wrestle on 05/16/17 10:38pm

rbpru wrote:

Sage advice. Found out an easier way to access the cord by removing a panel from under my sink from posters on the jayco forum. Gonna enjoy sweating my ass off in my rig this weekend putting it in, and fishing the next. Maybe I'll share a drink with a wise man who will tell me about these dang Condors I gotta watch out for.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/17/17 04:34am

delwhjr wrote:

Regardless of which one you get make sure it is UL listed to guaranty it will do the job.

westom wrote:

UL says nothing about an item's performance. UL is only about one thing - human safety. Does not matter how good or inferior it performs. UL's only tests for human safety threats such as fire, electrocution, etc.

Performance guarantees come from numbers such as manufacturer specifications. And by first identifying what it is suppose to do (or avert).

Bumpyroad wrote:

from your research which of the ones mentioned is best. now is the $90 one as good as the $288 one? how about some practical information?

No. The "$90 one" is just a simple surge protector, the "$280 one" is not only a surge protector but also an EMS that detects a multiplicity of line errors AND does something about it when any errors are detected, all of which is detailed on manufacturers' product websites. Different devices, different results = you get what you pay for. [emoticon]

Posted By: DutchmenSport on 05/17/17 05:32am

rbpru wrote:

... I have ascertained that there is no way to know if my surge protector is working or not. ... become a potential fire source.

So I guess I will just leave my inexpensive unit plugged into the box safe outside the TT.

... my chances of being carried away by giant condors ... I will put it in the "unexplained" files and go fishing.

If I worried about all the what-ifs, I would have stopped camping years ago.

rbpru!!! I like your way of thinking! How about we get camp sites side by side, kick back with a good brew and do some "giant condor" watching TOGETHER while sitting on the side of that lake with fishing poles at hand!

Posted By: westom on 05/17/17 08:26am

Which one is a best one? Nobody can say until each 'anomaly of concern' is defined. Obviously a more expensive ones address more anomalies. But a cheap one might address the only anomaly of concern. No recommendation is possible without first listing which anomalies cause concern.

Defined were four anomalies that are problematic in campgrounds. These are averted by disconnecting. No protector disconnects in nanoseconds. Disconnecting is done in milliseconds or longer. Sufficiently fast enough for all appliances - from anomalies that are averted by disconnecting.

A different anomaly that requires nanosecond responses also requires the protector to be as close to the pole (and earth ground) as possible. And with a greater separation between protector and appliances. That anomaly is rare compared to those other anomalies averted by disconnecting.

As defined by a list (in a denial), UL is about protecting humans. UL does not test for protection of appliances. Appliance protection never was and still is not the purpose of a UL listing. Human protection is UL's concern.

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/17/17 10:11am

westom wrote:

Defined were four anomalies that are problematic in campgrounds. These are averted by disconnecting. No protector disconnects in nanoseconds. Disconnecting is done in milliseconds or longer. Sufficiently fast enough for all appliances - from anomalies that are averted by disconnecting.

OK, lets try again on these 4 anomalies. what I am interested in would be of course over/under voltage, mis-wiring, some surge protection, and delayed restart to protect AC compressor/motor.

bumpy

Posted By: rbpru on 05/17/17 12:19pm

It is true that UL does not guarantee the performance of a product. However they are real stickler when it come to the product being safe to use.

Their goal is to protect the consumer while the product does what it does.

Posted By: myredracer on 05/17/17 12:49pm

This summary from NEMA Surge Protection Institute says regarding UL 1449, the standard for surge protection devices:

As a generalization, UL addresses electrical product safety in areas that involve a risk of fire, electric shock, or injury to persons. UL verifies the safe operation of SPDs through a listing or component recognition process including a series of stringent destructive and non-destructive tests. These ensure safe operation during normal operation and at the unit’s end of life.

This summary outlines the changes in the 3rd (2006) edition and the classification of SPD's into 4 basic types.

Performance falls under IEEE as outlined here.

There are of course, other safety orgs. standards that may sometimes be used instead of UL like CSA and ETL. Any electrical product bearing a UL or CSA label has passed an extremely rigorous list of tests in a lab before it can become listed/certified. Only products that have these labels should be used in the US and Canada.

Posted By: rbpru on 05/17/17 01:21pm

Yup that is UL. Random in-plant sampling and inspection, examination of processing documentation and laboratory testing and evaluation of products.

I worked with them for years.

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/17/17 01:48pm

Bumpyroad wrote:

OK, lets try again on these 4 anomalies. what I am interested in would be of course over/under voltage, mis-wiring, some surge protection, and delayed restart to protect AC compressor/motor.

Then you want an EMS.

Posted By: samhain7 on 05/21/17 01:05pm

I have been following this thread and had to reply. I have had the portable PI unit for two years now. Never a problem.
This weekend the power was cut to my trailer three times with a low voltage code.
Today the guy next to me woke up and nothing 12 volt is working in his trailer. Coincidence or not, I am glad I was protected.

Final notice from MasterCard. Good! I'm sick of hearing from them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2016 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins, E2 WD w/sway
2015 Starcraft Autumn Ridge 289BHS

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/21/17 01:27pm

SoundGuy wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

OK, lets try again on these 4 anomalies. what I am interested in would be of course over/under voltage, mis-wiring, some surge protection, and delayed restart to protect AC compressor/motor.

Then you want an EMS.

yes, but which one? westom gave lots of variables.
bumpy

Posted By: RPreeb on 05/21/17 02:56pm

Bumpyroad wrote:

SoundGuy wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

OK, lets try again on these 4 anomalies. what I am interested in would be of course over/under voltage, mis-wiring, some surge protection, and delayed restart to protect AC compressor/motor.

Then you want an EMS.

yes, but which one? westom gave lots of variables.
bumpy

Progressive Industries is the consensus standard which the others are always measured against. It's a great product, and their customer service has always been second to none. If you have a 50 amp service in your RV, then get the 50 amp. If 30 amp, then get that one. I have the 30 amp portable.

Rick
2016 F-150 XLT 4x4 3.5 EB
2017 Jay Feather X213

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/22/17 01:16pm

Bumpyroad wrote:

OK, lets try again on these 4 anomalies. what I am interested in would be of course over/under voltage, mis-wiring, some surge protection, and delayed restart to protect AC compressor/motor.

SoundGuy wrote:

Then you want an EMS.

Bumpyroad wrote:

yes, but which one? westom gave lots of variables.

That's the problem - westom gave you TOO MUCH information. [emoticon]

Make it simple for yourself - buy a Progressive Industries EMS with a lifetime warranty. [emoticon]

If your rig is wired for 30 amp service then buy a 30 amp model, if it's wired with 50 amp service then buy a 50 amp version. If you prefer simplicity and ease of use buy a portable version (EMS-PT30X or EMS-PT50X), if you're willing / able to wire the unit into your rig and would prefer the advantages a hard wire model can offer then buy a hard wire version (EMS-HW30C or EMS-HW50C).

It's really quite simple, despite westom's exhortations that only serve to over complicate the issue of choosing an appropriate electrical protection device for your rig. [emoticon]

Posted By: dee74 on 05/22/17 06:55pm

I have the PI HW30C. Great peace of mind and I like the remote display. The unit was easy to wire into the system, there are plenty of you tube videos if you need help. My seasonal campground had a partial brown out this weekend, it was good to know that I could read the display and see I had nothing to worry about. Apparently it was something down he road as the electric company made several passes down the road for a few hours.

Posted By: westom on 05/22/17 07:13pm

Even some Progressive models do not do what some campers want. If that is too complicated, then all life is too complicated. Nobody can make an informed recommendation until the appropriate anomaly is first defined. Some want a magic box - do not first learn what is required.

Four typical anomalies were defined. Honest products explicity state protection from each. Many items, call surge protectors, do not. Some were even recommended here.

Layman simple to first define anomalies. Then select a product that actually claims to protect from each anomaly. Many protectors do not.

Some recommendation did not bother to define what the product protects from. What it must do. Or why it is necessary. Those recommendation made everything complex. What works was defined. Why those disingenuous recommendations were bogus also had to be explained.

Recommendations that do not say why are best challenged as if bogus. Informed layman do that routinely in everything in life. If it does not also say why - with numbers, then it is probably a lie - maybe a scam.

First an anomaly is defined. Then an item that defines protection (with numbers) is selected. That layman simple.

Posted By: temccarthy1 on 05/22/17 08:59pm

The ONLY way to totally protect your RV is to get a Progressive Industries EMS system, either portable or hard wired. In it's first season in 2016, ours saved our TT from serous OVER voltage several times a day for 5 days at a NY State Park ( Cayuga Lake State Park). In speaking to a park ranger, he acknowledged they were fully aware that there were over voltage problems at the Park for "several " years and had not received funding to fix them. He said very few campers have an advanced EMS like mine so are unaware of the cumulative long term damage and shortening of life they are causing to their major electronics and systems in their RV's. In the very next NY State Park in Ithaca, we had our system shut us down several times for UNDER voltage! GET ONE OF THESE UNITS NOW!

Tim, Ramona and dog Scruffy
1982 Coleman Sun Valley PUP (retired)
2014 Keystone Bullet 285RLS Ultralite TT
2013 Ford Expedition XLT 5.4L Triton V8
Equalizer E2 hitch

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/22/17 09:25pm

Posted By: SoundGuy on 05/22/17 09:26pm

westom wrote:

Even some Progressive models do not do what some campers want. If that is too complicated, then all life is too complicated.

You're a lone wolf howling in the wind westom. [emoticon]

No one claims these EMS devices to be "perfect", just that any RV owner is far better off using one to assist in protecting their rig than not - period. If anything in these discussions is complicated it's your constant analyses that are way beyond the interest & understanding of most here on the forums and serve only to confuse. Time to give up the preaching, no one cares. [emoticon]

Posted By: Bumpyroad on 05/23/17 04:34am

SoundGuy wrote:

You're a lone wolf howling in the wind westom. [emoticon]

well stated SG
bumpy

Posted By: Route 66 Traveler on 06/10/17 03:08pm

Well, reading this Forum can be expensive! I have been using a Surge Guard without any issues, but this past weekend while at an RV Park they were doing "maintenance" and the power went on/off numerous times. I got nervous and just unplugged from the pedestal until they were finished. That incident, and the comments in this Thread, prompted me to buy an EMS-PT50X from Progressive Ind. My only concern is having it shut down with my animals inside while we are gone, but then at least the AC won't get fried and will restart with normal power. I like the fact that if I have to use a 30Amp pedestal I can see the current being drawn before I exceed 30 Amps and pop the breaker. Anyone want to buy slightly used Surge Guard in good cond.....

By the way the EMS is On Sale at camping world for $366.15

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/ems-pt50x-50-amp-ems-with-surge-protection/102485

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