Deka DC31DT Marine Deep Cycle Battery (Lead Acid) 12V, 650 CCA
Quote:
Our batteries from DEKA are made with the highest quality parts and are guaranteed to be compatible with your original vehicle equipment. Built with advanced technology to insure the highest quality standards for reliability, durability and performance.
Increased Service Life
Protection against acid leakage and corrosion
Impact resistant case and cover
Optimum performance in extreme weather conditions
OEM battery compatible
Made in the U.S.A by East Penn Manufacturing
Extra cranking power
225min @ 23Amp, 185@25
Our batteries from DEKA are made with the highest quality parts and are guaranteed to be compatible with your original vehicle equipment. Built with advanced technology to insure the highest quality standards for reliability, durability and performance.
Increased Service Life
Protection against acid leakage and corrosion
Impact resistant case and cover
Optimum performance in extreme weather conditions
OEM battery compatible
Made in the U.S.A by East Penn Manufacturing
Extra cranking power
225min @ 23Amp, 185@25
I bolded the section to ask about.
IF it is true deep cycle, permitting repeated 50% discharge without harm, then two of these would be 440ah vs two GC2 at 205ah.
I *think* this is the model. It matches the verbal info I got from the dealer. I've bought Group 31 batteries from them many times in the past for diesel equipment. But not sure about his deep cycle batteries.
What do you think, what am I missing?
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/huh.gif "huh")
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Marine-Master-Spec-Sheet-0194.pdf
It's 105 amp hr for 20 so it would only be 210 with 2 Batteries.
2015 Winnebago Forza 34T
pushed by a 2011 Fusion Hybrid or 2020 Escape Hybrid
Retired DFD
I bought four of those from Sam's Club branded as Duracell. Great batteries in my opinion, no complaints here.
2013 KZ Sportsmen Classic 200, 20 ft TT
2020 RAM 1500, 5.7 4x4, 8 speed
DiskDoctr wrote:
... what am I missing?
... what am I missing?
The 20 HR rate - 105 AH for one, 210 AH for two in parallel. The DC31DT is the battery I'll most likely replace my current 9 yr old Interstate G27 with. Here in Canada these Dekas are supplied by East Penn and sold at RV Care dealerships as Traveler's Choice branded batteries.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
The spec I was quoted is 220ah @23amps, which matches what I saw in the specs when I did a search.
IF they are true deep cycle and allow repeated 50% discharge, we would likely start with TWO batteries and add another battery if needed.
I like the idea of being able to add any number of batteries- if all else is close to equal- and more so if the 12v is better
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
The price I'm quoted is $120/ea.
The Crown GC-2 is also $120/ea at this dealer.
I can drive an hour plus and get Interstate GC2 at Sams Club for $86/ea.
I'd really HATE to get them and find out they don't hold up to the repeated 50% discharge cycles and sometimes heavy inverter draws
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/doh.gif "doh")
DiskDoctr wrote:
I'm missing the 105ah/battery part? Unless it is due to 50% usable?
The spec I was quoted is 220ah @23amps, which matches what I saw in the specs when I did a search.
I'm missing the 105ah/battery part? Unless it is due to 50% usable?
The spec I was quoted is 220ah @23amps, which matches what I saw in the specs when I did a search.
OK, one more time - when comparing one deep cycle battery to another you want to be comparing them at the 20 Hr rate. That DC31DT you're referring to is 20 Hr rated @ 105 AH, two would offer 210 AH, so obviously a pair wired in parallel drawn down to 50% SOC would offer you ~ 105 usable AHs. As far as heavy inverter draw is concerned 12 volt jugs will inherently suffer less voltage drop under heavy load than a pair of similarly rated 6 volts in series simply because internal resistance will be lower.
Colo Native wrote:
According to the DATA Sheet
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Marine-Master-Spec-Sheet-0194.pdf
It's 105 amp hr for 20 so it would only be 210 with 2 Batteries.
According to the DATA Sheet
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Marine-Master-Spec-Sheet-0194.pdf
It's 105 amp hr for 20 so it would only be 210 with 2 Batteries.
I was looking at 225 MINS @ 23 amps, not the 105 @ 20hr cap
Please explain this to me, I am reading it wrong? (I'm not a battery expert)
These are two entirely different things.I can assure you that no group 31 12v battery is going to be much above 120 Ah. There's no way that one of these is 220 Ah. Both together would be.
SoundGuy wrote:
OK, one more time - when comparing one deep cycle battery to another you want to be comparing them at the 20 Hr rate. That DC31DT you're referring to is 20 Hr rated @ 105 AH, two would offer 210 AH, so obviously a pair wired in parallel drawn down to 50% SOC would offer you ~ 105 usable AHs. As far as heavy inverter draw is concerned 12 volt jugs will inherently suffer less voltage drop under heavy load than a pair of similarly rated 6 volts in series simply because internal resistance will be lower.
OK, one more time - when comparing one deep cycle battery to another you want to be comparing them at the 20 Hr rate. That DC31DT you're referring to is 20 Hr rated @ 105 AH, two would offer 210 AH, so obviously a pair wired in parallel drawn down to 50% SOC would offer you ~ 105 usable AHs. As far as heavy inverter draw is concerned 12 volt jugs will inherently suffer less voltage drop under heavy load than a pair of similarly rated 6 volts in series simply because internal resistance will be lower.
Okay, I just asked that part...again. But you answered in between my posts. LOL.
Thanks!
These are two entirely different things.I can assure you that no group 31 12v battery is going to be much above 120 Ah. There's no way that one of these is 220 Ah. Both together would be.
KD4UPL wrote:
Your last post match your first. Your first post, highlighted in bold, says 225 min @ 23 amps. Your second post you claim you were verbal quoted 220 Ah at 23 amps.
These are two entirely different things.I can assure you that no group 31 12v battery is going to be much above 120 Ah. There's no way that one of these is 220 Ah. Both together would be.
Your last post match your first. Your first post, highlighted in bold, says 225 min @ 23 amps. Your second post you claim you were verbal quoted 220 Ah at 23 amps.
These are two entirely different things.I can assure you that no group 31 12v battery is going to be much above 120 Ah. There's no way that one of these is 220 Ah. Both together would be.
Yeah
I was expecting to hear Ah, didn't realize a rating ALSO had a minutes at amp rating. *I* mixed those up apparently.
Thanks guys for setting me straight.
So is it correct that these 31's would together have the SAME approx ah as a pair of GC-2's? What about performance, since they wouldn't have the same voltage drop as Soundguy said?
If so, a pair of 31's would be $240, a pair of GC-2 at Sams Club would be $170. Crudd, thought I was onto something
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/frown.gif "frown")
The first number 225*23 gives 86 amp hrs
The second number 185*25 gives 77 amp hrs per battery
Less then 200 amp hrs per pair
Quite a bit less than two golf car batteries at 220~230 amp hrs
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !
....
Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s
GordonThree wrote:
the 2x GC2 for $170 aren't AGM for that price, or yes, they're a good deal. I paid 179 ea for my G31AGM from sams, where are you seeing them for 120 ea?
the 2x GC2 for $170 aren't AGM for that price, or yes, they're a good deal. I paid 179 ea for my G31AGM from sams, where are you seeing them for 120 ea?
Found them at local Battery Warehouse. I didn't find them on their website, but called up. Been dealing with them for a few years, always has something interesting around or can order.
I am NOT certain about the model, though, will have to wait until tomorrow to call back.
MrWizard wrote:
That battery is approx 80 amp hrs
The first number 225*23 gives 86 amp hrs
The second number 185*25 gives 77 amp hrs per battery
Less then 200 amp hrs per pair
Quite a bit less than two golf car batteries at 220~230 amp hrs
That battery is approx 80 amp hrs
The first number 225*23 gives 86 amp hrs
The second number 185*25 gives 77 amp hrs per battery
Less then 200 amp hrs per pair
Quite a bit less than two golf car batteries at 220~230 amp hrs
Hmm...
The GC-2's he said were 205@20amps.
I have both Deka and Crown written down, so not sure which was the initial answer and which one was after he checked.
The GC-2 number by your calcs would be substantially lower than the 205/215 ah that I've heard people quote for the Duracells.
According to the Sams Club page for the Duracell GC-2
Quote:
Description Member reviews & questions Policies & plans
Description
For applications that requires deep-cycle power, this is the battery of choice. Use it in your personnel carrier, aerial lift, electric vehicle, golf car, boat, RV, floor scrubber, or road sign. The biggest innovations lie inside the battery, where we use heavier grids, plates with higher density oxide and improved glass mat envelope separators. The result? Longer life cycles and superior cycle-life performance. The exterior features represent powerful thinking as well. Engineers have designed a battery that is as durable and user-friendly as possible. The heavy-gauge polypropylene cases have been specially engineered to take a pounding without damaging the cells. Twist-and-release vent caps make removing caps a snap, and we’ve maximized convenience by designing a new lifting system.
Specifications
20 amp hour rate:215
5 amp hour rate:157
6 amp hour rate:156
Battery Electrolyte Composition:Acid
Battery End Type:Top Post
Battery Purpose![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/grin.gif "grin")
eep Cycle
BCI Group Size:GC2
Contents![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/embarrassed.gif "embarrassed")
NE EACH
Freight Class:65
Minutes at 25 amps:395
Minutes at 75 amps:105
Terminal TypeIN
Volts:6
Description Member reviews & questions Policies & plans
Description
For applications that requires deep-cycle power, this is the battery of choice. Use it in your personnel carrier, aerial lift, electric vehicle, golf car, boat, RV, floor scrubber, or road sign. The biggest innovations lie inside the battery, where we use heavier grids, plates with higher density oxide and improved glass mat envelope separators. The result? Longer life cycles and superior cycle-life performance. The exterior features represent powerful thinking as well. Engineers have designed a battery that is as durable and user-friendly as possible. The heavy-gauge polypropylene cases have been specially engineered to take a pounding without damaging the cells. Twist-and-release vent caps make removing caps a snap, and we’ve maximized convenience by designing a new lifting system.
Specifications
20 amp hour rate:215
5 amp hour rate:157
6 amp hour rate:156
Battery Electrolyte Composition:Acid
Battery End Type:Top Post
Battery Purpose
eep CycleBCI Group Size:GC2
Contents
NE EACHFreight Class:65
Minutes at 25 amps:395
Minutes at 75 amps:105
Terminal Type
INVolts:6
Now I'm REALLY having trouble reconciling the "20 amp hour rate" of the GC2 vs Group 31
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
(I don't recall the exact thread title, but it is the one where folks speculating the Duracell is the rebranded Trojans at Costco)
DiskDoctr wrote:
Now I'm REALLY having trouble reconciling the "20 amp hour rate" of the GC2 vs Group 31
Now I'm REALLY having trouble reconciling the "20 amp hour rate" of the GC2 vs Group 31
Seems to me you're going to great effort to confuse yourself
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
... neither of these batteries you've mentioned are AGM but rather conventional flooded. As I already mentioned that Group 31 DC31DT Duracell branded battery is actually a Deka manufactured by East Penn and is the exact same battery sold by East Penn here in Canada as an RV Care Traveler's Choice battery, 20 HR rated @ 105 AH, 210 AH for a pair wired in parallel. GC-2 Duracells are likewise East Penn Dekas, also sold here in Canada as the RV Care Traveler's Choice PS2000, 20 HR rated @ 215 AH each and therefore 215 AH for a pair wired in series.![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/SdBrN5tl.png)
Between these 2 choices I wouldn't be worrying about a mere 5 AH difference but rather which ones (Group 31 or GC-2) would best fit where you intend to locate them on the trailer. Secondly, if your intention is to regularly deep cycle these batteries then you'd probably be better served with a pair of GC-2s which are designed for this purpose. Alternately, if you anticipate deep cycling your batteries only occasionally but do expect them to regularly tolerate heavy inverter load then you're probably better off with a pair of Group 31s as they're more likely to suffer less voltage drop under heavy load than will a pair of GC-2s.
105 ahr at the 20hr rate that's a solid number but it also means 5 amp discharge for 20 hrs
225*23 is a reserve minutes number, 23 amps (not 5 amps) for 225 minutes aka 3 hrs 45 minutes ( not 20 hrs )
Which is less amp hrs total you are using power at almost 5 times the 20hr discharge rate, it's called peurkut effect, the chemical reactions of the battery are less efficient producing the electrical energy
Yes both numbers can be valid for the same battery, because they mean two different things
MrWizard wrote:
The problem is numbers and the way they are expressed.
The problem is numbers and the way they are expressed.
For comparison purposes between different makes / models of batteries the 20 HR rate is the most commonly used and as valid as any. However, anyone who takes that 20 HR rate and automatically assumes that simple math will tell them exactly how long the battery will last when drawn down to 50% SOC will be sorely disappointed as no battery will deplete in a linear manner but will vary considerably as the total load varies. Interestingly, while the OP has been agonizing over which batteries to purchase he hasn't said a word about what charger he's using to maintain those batteries, which is critical if he expects to maximize the life of any battery he may invest in, particularly if he opts for AGMs or Gels instead of flooded.
Compare weight and posted performance to competitive batteries to gain an idea of what's beneath the plastic of your choice. Heavy weight, low ampere hour rating, and CCA could demarcate.
It pays to keep in mind, thick plates mean one significant point: More allowance for additional allowable plate shedding and corrosion etch. This revolves entirely around whether a battery is constructed well enough and taken care good enough to let the thicker plates aspect come into play.
SoundGuy wrote:
...while the OP has been agonizing over which batteries to purchase he hasn't said a word about what charger he's using to maintain those batteries, which is critical if he expects to maximize the life of any battery he may invest in, particularly if he opts for AGMs or Gels instead of flooded
...while the OP has been agonizing over which batteries to purchase he hasn't said a word about what charger he's using to maintain those batteries, which is critical if he expects to maximize the life of any battery he may invest in, particularly if he opts for AGMs or Gels instead of flooded
Well, been trying to work that out. Here is where the choice is at the moment, and key points.
1. Flooded batteries. Different chemistry and such would require other charging and higher voltages, which could affect my unregulated LEDs.
2. I have the WF-8955AN 3 stage charger at 55amps (load and charger)
3. We will be out up to a week at a time without shore power, but will have generator use a few hours a day.
4. We have Xantrex 1800 PSW inverter on its way to run 120v lighting and laptop power supplies, and likely try running microwave a few mins each am during quiet hours.
5. Strongly considering Group 31 12v deep cycle batteries, expecting to have 2, possibly 3 in parallel.
6. We will plug in the camper for an extended period when we return from the week+ trip, then a day or two at a time while on the 2-4 week travel trip to different places this summer.
7. I DO have several large chargers that can be used when we return home. Some are multistage, some are not. Most are not easily portable, but I have a 3 stage dual battery charger in the boat that may come out...not all worked out yet.
8. As inverter is direct wired and we move the converter to its own breaker and add NC relay to prevent it from being powered on inverter, and we likely add 30amp transfer switch (the built in ATS on the inverter is only 15amp, probably have to just skip it) to jump between shore/generator power and inverter power.....leads to....
9. A starter solar system could show up by the end of season or before next season, with appropriate charging upgrade that will top off the batteries.
As the system "matures" we are striving to take steps that meet our needs and expected needs without too much waste or replacements necessary.
10. We are adding 12v sockets and USB ports to natively power and charge devices without the inverter
11. I will be moving the cell wireless repeater/booster to this new camper and strategically placing the Mobley that just arrived today to allow my daughter to take her advanced classes this summer while traveling.
12. We *may* provide for the ability to isolate one battery as emergency use for the newly installed electric tongue jack and both 12v slides.
13. I'll be building extra battery mounts for 3-4 batteries.
14. The inverter will be mounted inside the front storage area on the soon to be added pegboard to line the full width compartment, while I pull the LCD monitoring panel, wire in RJ45/RJ11 (not sure which it has) to remote the panel to as of yet undetermined location to monitor, but provide the ability to cover it to shade at night in the master bedroom.
15. Replace the ceiling vent fan in the bathroom with a Fantastic Fan, after washing and resealing the entire roof, slides, sides, etc.
16. Replace the awning
17. Devise rear storage container rack setup and try to fit in all our gear
18. Work out a bike rack, possibly with a front hitch on the Excursion
19. Wash and wax the camper (
)20. Paint any faded plastic, replace all window weatherstripping while cleaning and dry lubing the contact points and sliding channels
21. Finish replacing the cooling unit on the fridge and reinstall it, while making new air chimney/draft above the fridge and allowing for a new storage area above it.
22. Add LED lighting to underside near wheels and stabilizing jacks for night time setup
23. Add backup cameras to Excursion and to the camper
24. Add expansion tank to water system
25. Add quick disconnect to propane system for our Wave 3 propane heater
26. Add light switches inside the door and lights to steps
27. Add extended grab handle to steps/door
28. Replace stove hood vent fan with quiet and efficient fan
29. Possibly add fan to main bedroom vent
30. Add vent hoods (like MaxAir or similar) for powerless ventilation
31. Flush, test, and sanitize water and waste systems.
32. Pull all wheel hubs to inspect and pack bearings and inspect brakes
33. Shampoo all carpeting and wipe down entire camper walls, ceiling, cabinets, etc
34. Figure out where to pack everything we take with us
35. Do service and maintenance on our hybrid to get it ready to sale.
...and probably lots more, LOL
So you can see that batteries and power are very important, but lots of other moving pieces as well. If I miss a few things or make some mistakes, please point them out, but don't get too frustrated with me- lots of things happening and being planned
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
I guess this is all part of coming from a camper we spent years modding and setting up just the way we wanted and then starting over with another camper. Exciting for sure! (but also a lot of work)
Keep the tips and info coming. They are HUGE helps
Thanks!
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
For "Moon Mission" calculation...
For "Moon Mission" calculation...
Did you see my post? Sometimes I feel like we are planning for a Moon Mission, LOL.
I've been keeping a good eye to the weights of the batteries we are looking at.
Thanks
2009 Holiday Rambler 42' Scepter with ISL 400 Cummins
750 Watts Solar Morningstar MPPT 60 Controller
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Bob
DiskDoctr wrote:
2. I have the WF-8955AN 3 stage charger at 55amps ...
2. I have the WF-8955AN 3 stage charger at 55amps ...
And there's your biggest issue ... probably wired with way too much 6 gauge to get to the battery location and almost for sure never bulk charges at it's advertised 14.4 volts. It's the same problem I and just about every other WFCO owner has
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/mad.gif "mad")
... I solved mine by turning the darned thing off and instead using a portable charger that does do a proper 14.4 volt bulk charge and is wired directly to the battery with 6' of 4 gauge.Fact is, charger and battery are directly related - buy a Trojan and you're going to want to bulk charge at 14.8 volts, buy a Deka AGM and you'll want temperature compensated charging which almost no converter / charger is capable of. Getting the most out of whatever batteries you buy isn't just a matter of comparing battery to battery but also matching those batteries to the charger you intend to use to maintain them. Ignore it and you can bet you'll be replacing those batteries sooner rather than later.
CA Traveler wrote:
Doc TMI
Doc TMI
A number of the same folks have contributed to my other threads and questions about many of the items on that list, so it ties together.
Besides, it's a list, not a narrative. Easy to skip through as desired
SoundGuy wrote:
And there's your biggest issue ... probably wired with way too much 6 gauge to get to the battery location and almost for sure never bulk charges at it's advertised 14.4 volts. It's the same problem I and just about every other WFCO owner has ... I solved mine by turning the darned thing off and instead using a portable charger that does do a proper 14.4 volt bulk charge and is wired directly to the battery with 6' of 4 gauge.
Fact is, charger and battery are directly related - buy a Trojan and you're going to want to bulk charge at 14.8 volts, buy a Deka AGM and you'll want temperature compensated charging which almost no converter / charger is capable of. Getting the most out of whatever batteries you buy isn't just a matter of comparing battery to battery but also matching those batteries to the charger you intend to use to maintain them. Ignore it and you can bet you'll be replacing those batteries sooner rather than later.
DiskDoctr wrote:
2. I have the WF-8955AN 3 stage charger at 55amps ...
2. I have the WF-8955AN 3 stage charger at 55amps ...
And there's your biggest issue ... probably wired with way too much 6 gauge to get to the battery location and almost for sure never bulk charges at it's advertised 14.4 volts. It's the same problem I and just about every other WFCO owner has
... I solved mine by turning the darned thing off and instead using a portable charger that does do a proper 14.4 volt bulk charge and is wired directly to the battery with 6' of 4 gauge.Fact is, charger and battery are directly related - buy a Trojan and you're going to want to bulk charge at 14.8 volts, buy a Deka AGM and you'll want temperature compensated charging which almost no converter / charger is capable of. Getting the most out of whatever batteries you buy isn't just a matter of comparing battery to battery but also matching those batteries to the charger you intend to use to maintain them. Ignore it and you can bet you'll be replacing those batteries sooner rather than later.
I was hoping to get away with maybe just replacing the wiring from the converter to the batteries with heavier wire for now and upgrading the converter down the road.
I read that good improvements can be had by upgrading that run. The inverter will be near the batteries as everyone has suggested.
We are planning on a couple of "dry runs" in the next few weeks, probably in Camp Driveway as we test usage and charging/recovery, etc.
Hoping this will tell us:
1. Do we need a 3rd 12v Group 31 battery
2. Must we urgently upgrade the converter/charger
3. Are our inverter/battery bank/wiring/expectations well matched
4. Does everything else work? Any problems electrically or otherwise?
I have some welding cable somewhere I'm going to see if I can find. I also have access to long 4 conductor cable used to power old mobile homes. Have to check the gauge.
We'll upgrade the converter/charger now if we must. Sounds like it is likely?
Thanks guys for sticking with this
DiskDoctr wrote:
We'll upgrade the converter/charger now if we must. Sounds like it is likely?
We'll upgrade the converter/charger now if we must. Sounds like it is likely?
That's the improvement that would gain you the most, especially if you mount it close the battery location. Question is, what to buy when you haven't yet identified just which batteries you intend to also buy.
Connected to 1/2 depleted 31 AGM using terminals on the end of the Wiffie's original factory 6 gauge wires. Maybe 14" long? Zooooooooomed to 14.4 volt "Boooooooooooooooooost" for maybe 15 seconds than wimped to 13.6 volts. Thus was summoned the anger, oops I mean "need" for the BORG.
WFCO the Yugo of converters. Brother is a Lada, sister is a Renault Dauphin. Right up there with Lucas electrical quality and Chinese sales specifications. Oops I forgot about English bolts. Grade 0.2
Does C/10 still count with the Deka 31's I listed?
If so, they are 105ah/ea, so for 3 batteries I would need 30-40 amps max charging rate?
Or is more = better?
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
The Wiffie!
Connected to 1/2 depleted 31 AGM using terminals on the end of the Wiffie's original factory 6 gauge wires. Maybe 14" long? Zooooooooomed to 14.4 volt "Boooooooooooooooooost" for maybe 15 seconds than wimped to 13.6 volts. Thus was summoned the anger, oops I mean "need" for the BORG.
WFCO the Yugo of converters. Brother is a Lada, sister is a Renault Dauphin. Right up there with Lucas electrical quality and Chinese sales specifications. Oops I forgot about English bolts. Grade 0.2
The Wiffie!
Connected to 1/2 depleted 31 AGM using terminals on the end of the Wiffie's original factory 6 gauge wires. Maybe 14" long? Zooooooooomed to 14.4 volt "Boooooooooooooooooost" for maybe 15 seconds than wimped to 13.6 volts. Thus was summoned the anger, oops I mean "need" for the BORG.
WFCO the Yugo of converters. Brother is a Lada, sister is a Renault Dauphin. Right up there with Lucas electrical quality and Chinese sales specifications. Oops I forgot about English bolts. Grade 0.2
Dude...if'n I travel to Mexico, we are gonna share cervezas
Crack me up
All this sounds wonderful until the ladies understand what significance this has for their changing wardrobe, appliances and furniture styles five times a year.
Then I myself become an immediately endangered species.
If it cannot be repaired - do not manufacture it (appliances).
Fat chance.
Just bought one. It will be here by Tuesday. Brand new, full 2 yr warranty, with serial number and pendant.
Bought on Ebay, 100% positive, experienced seller.
Paypal had a 20% up to $20 coupon. I paid $192 with free shipping.
Figure if I'm going to be wiring, may as well do it "once"
Thanks, guys, for the info and the "push" to do it right
* This post was edited 04/19/17 05:07pm by DiskDoctr *
Deka batteries are made in the USA from US materials, Not imported, all home made. I have DEKAs as my primary batteries.
But if it says "MARINE" on it.. It is NOT a true deep cycle.
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times
DiskDoctr wrote:
So a PD9270 converter with pendant is a good choice/
So a PD9270 converter with pendant is a good choice/
Depends, on what you intend to charge with it.
The PD9270, like most other converter / chargers, doesn't offer temperature corrected charging so you shouldn't expect to use it for maintaining any batteries the manufacturer insists must be TC charged, which would include AGM and GEL batteries manufactured by East Penn.East Penn Group 27 AGM
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/p9FvMpil.jpg)
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/j4ZMXxml.jpg)
OR like many pundits here on the forum you can ignore this East Penn warning from those who actually designed & manufactured these batteries, insist it doesn't matter, and replace those expensive AGMs sooner rather than later.
There's no magic to this - the "best" charger is one that "best" matches the charging characteristics of the batteries you intend to charge with it. Perhaps sufficient reason for many to stick with good ol' flooded which are much more tolerant of differing charging profiles.
If the Crown batteries referenced earlier are 70 lbs and can be had for $120, that would be a good purchase. I have the Sam's Club 6V's and also, 3--Deka AGM batteries. All are doing fine but Crown is noted for quality and durability.
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton
FYI here's an East Penn VRLA Tech Manual you might want to read through if you're at all interested in EP non-flooded batteries. It's pretty clear that temperature corrected charging (which your new PD9270 does not offer) is a requirement as far as East Penn is concerned. Personally, I'd be looking for similar documentation that relates to any other make / model of battery you may be interested in before making any battery purchase. For example, AFAIK Trojan calls for a bulk charge rate of 14.8 volts which your new PD doesn't do, in which case you would have wanted to buy the 14.8 volt version.
My questions summary:
1. DC31DT is a True Deep Cycle or hybrid, considering it is listed as "Marine" which is normally used as a distinction between True Deep Cycle batteries and a combinations deep cycle/starting battery.
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
3. Spec sheet says, "Note: The three "DC" deep cycle part numbers above include double insulated glass mat separators." Using the term "glass mat" now makes one think AGM technology.
Responses:
1. Whose part number is that, where did you find it? (he transposed the beginning of the part number to 31DCDT). Seems odd he isn't familiar with his own company's model number method, but okay. It is a true deep cycle. 'Marine' means it can be used for boat applications, like trolling motors and fish finders.
2. First response was it is an 80% battery. Then he said, no I think that is incorrect.
3. It is not AGM battery, but he did find and confirm that same statement is on their current product sheet as well.
I told Tom that not only would I like the information, I would ask for it in a formal manner so I could quote it online and clear up any confusion.
He said he'll talk with someone else, as he has never had such a high tech question before. He said he could Fax it to me.
I asked if he could email it. "Would you like me to fax it to you?" was the non-answer response. A little strange. Can you scan and email it to me, we have limited fax capabilities here. "I can put it in the mail to you"
I asked if he had a scanner, maybe could scan and email it. "Would you like me to fax it to you" was the response. Very odd.
I said, "Tom, if you're telling me you do not have any scanning or email capabilities, it gives a bad impression. I start thinking 1982 technology there. Do you have a scanner?"
Response: "Would you like me to fax it to you"
Okay, thank you, is there someone else I could talk to? Sure.
Turns out Mary, supervisor of customer service is in a meeting until this afternoon. He offered to allow me to leave a message. I told him I'd rather call back.
Where to go from here? Well, I'll call back and talk with Mary. Tom was polite, just not really familiar with batteries and I guess email is a bit out of his comfort zone. Seems odd, but I'm guessing he deals mostly with warranty work, shipments, orders, or whatever else.
I thought it odd there wasn't any offer to speak with someone more technical, but I didn't ask, either.
Shame they are 4.5hrs from me. I'd probably just stop in and clear it all up in about 10 mins.
Why is this important? Well, if we build a battery bank out of these batteries, we're going to stick with the exact same brand and model forever. Not like buying a car battery, where you are only stuck with something until the next change and can always just buy ONE if you don't like it. Buying 2-4 of these at $120/ea adds up quickly.
I can't help but think of the phrase, "Just the fax{sic}"
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/tongue.gif "tongue")
Stay tuned for the actual, definitive results.
Maybe I should just drive the nearly 3hrs round trip to Sams Club and buy 4 6v GC2 and be done with it.
Fax does not
A person can deny sending a fax, or claim it was sent, not their fault you did not receive it
A fax can be tied to a particular office aka phone number
An email IS tied directly to a specific person
Seems like he was in CYA mode
DiskDoctr wrote:
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
None of these Trojans are TRUE now that I know the definition! Sure looks like there is some sort of cycle life at any DoD
![[image]](http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y490/buokis/battery/batt_zps569e3991.jpg)
MrWizard wrote:
Seems like he was in CYA mode
Seems like he was in CYA mode
Unfortunately, I think that was the case. Especially since I called back and got the REAL SCOOP on it all from a much better rep named Jason
Here is the info, suitable for broadcast. 100% accurate, take it to the bank.
1. Duracell GC2 (215ah) and EGC2(230ah) batteries are Sams Club and Batteries Plus are DEKA batteries and should all have East Penn Manufacturing on the labels. (Internal EP designations are GC10, GC15, GC25, based upon capacity, but we know them as GC-2, which is the BCI size designation). They are NOT Trojans.
2. Camping World is starting to get the Deka batteries, which are initially arriving as DEKA branded and shortly as ROADHAWK brands. This is a CHANGE from the Exide mfg batteries CW handles now. Opens up ability for end users to have NATIONWIDE WARRANTY services as RV travelers.
3. DC31DT is true deep cycle, designed for 50% discharge levels. I am waiting for "something in writing" to confirm estimated number of 50% cycles.
4. East Penn *does* have and use email, contrary to the earlier contrary rep's very odd comments
Fortunately EP has more than one person answering phones. One gave a very poor representation of his company and was of no help to the customer. The other was quite excellent and makes his company proud, providing excellent service to the customer.
Moral of the story: Got a useless person on the phone? Hang up and call back. Roll the dice, it can only get better
So that's it. No need to "agonize" (great description of my predicament) over 12v Deka vs someone else's 6v batteries. Going to head to Sams Club this week and pick up either 2 or 4 GC2 6v batteries.
How many? Hmmm....
The inverter arrived. Going to go open the box and see what condition it is in.
red31 wrote:
None of these Trojans are TRUE now that I know the definition! Sure looks like there is some sort of cycle life at any DoD
DiskDoctr wrote:
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
2. Discharge rate is listed as "1500 cycles at 80%" A true deep cycle battery has acceptable repeated discharge of 50% without shortening the life of the battery.
None of these Trojans are TRUE now that I know the definition! Sure looks like there is some sort of cycle life at any DoD
Let me clarify my statement (which someone will likely state better).
A true deep cycle battery will not be harmed or have its life significantly decreased due to regular 50% discharging. I suppose it is okay for them to have LONGER life if they are discharged to a lesser degree, though I do not know at what levels they should be?
Maybe someone else can comment on your chart and what implication, if any, it has in this context?
Nice chart, thanks for posting it
IF IF IF IF IF
Absorbed glass mat batteries were sooooooooooooooooo temperature sensitive, they would not exist. The manufacturers would have gone out of business decades ago.
And yet MOST AGM batteries spend their life underhood in bake oven conditions subjected to pure S&M charge regimens dictated by alternator voltage regulators.
AGMs are FLAGSHIP PRODUCTS. Pure Ego on parade. They demand the very finest lifespan and performance figures they can achieve. So manufacturers put forth maintenance declarations that are stricter than the morals of an 80 year old spinster.
Can you blame them?
For a decent COMPARISON between batteries in order to glimpse perspective of weight, amp hours and CCA refer to the following PDF download manual from Lifeline. Compare with your choice.
Lifeline does not try and represent their AGM a being anything other than a true profoundly cyclable AGM
http://lifelinebatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/manual.pdf
The DEKA is a good battery. Buy it. Install it. Do the best you RATIONALLY can with voltage temperature. Then enjoy the battery.
Sufficient recharging amperage is 100 times as important than tweaking two tenths of an absorb or float volt.
Or is this maelstrom of confusion/perplexity/ambiguity going to continue on?
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Absorbed glass mat batteries were sooooooooooooooooo temperature sensitive, they would not exist. The manufacturers would have gone out of business decades ago.
Absorbed glass mat batteries were sooooooooooooooooo temperature sensitive, they would not exist. The manufacturers would have gone out of business decades ago.
East Penn AGM Temperature Adjusted Charging Voltages
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/qkEHC3Zl.png)
Interesting - at least a volt difference in temps many of us would expect to camp in. But hey, what would East Penn know?
SoundGuy wrote:
Interesting - at least a volt difference in temps many of us would expect to camp in. But hey, what would East Penn know?
Lifeline temp differences are similar but what would Concorde know? Interesting - at least a volt difference in temps many of us would expect to camp in. But hey, what would East Penn know?
Many of these products rest in UPS duty. Years and decades. When battery company X's AGM battery lasts 12 years instead of 13 years battery Y's AGM because Battery X goofed and recommended two tenths of a volt excess float potential...
Management goes berserk.
This gets transcribed where Joe Average and his RV encounters this information. It is inevitably regarded as an Eleventh Commandment. Sacred and inviolate.
To hell with common sense. All those vehicles running around cooking underhood AGM batteries SUCCESSFULLY do not count. They can't. It isn't presented in a shiny format that has an imprint of the company logo. Ignore it. It cannot exist.
I take it all back. Plug N Play. Press button and resume comatose regimentation. Because the alternative would be to create customers who who who (gulp)
Analyze...
But there area many on here that have the battery on charge in storage, only go to hookup sites, have solar that charges for weeks or months before they go out glamping
Not everyone who reads and responds to these threads is a dry camper
Or like you and me a tech who full times
For the hookup resort users, or the week end only
The mfg recommended way, seems to them the best route
They will try to get that ten or twelve years of mainly stand by duty
Me I work them hard
As stated many times very one use is different
Besides that battery under hood is not asked to go down to 50 percent day after day,
Nor do many of them last ten years, that heat and the awful voltage regulation you mentioned does take its toll on the the battery
Most of us who need and USE our battery power understand
Who has a battery box for 4 GC-2 batteries, inverter, and deck mounted converter/charger?
Pics?
Want to save the storage space proper and use/make an addon box for the tongue to handle these things.
A good AGM underhood will endure 10-12 years unless it is in Frostbite Falls or Phoenix AZ.
To choose an AGM for power princess pole duty is rather poor to begin with. Fine China for a Power Lunch. Forgot how many but I have recommended the cheapest warehouse engine starting battery for many users. 1% antimony, less electrolysis, less quiescent loss and well able to endure rest area duty once or twice a year. Money well saved.
But to dither over minuscule variations in float voltages is less than worthless. Many have obviated AGM because of seeming float temperature ambiguity. This is just plain nuts.
I'm going to give up on this. Facts have been presented and people are going to be people. I don't get paid to argue these points. But I do have hope that folks who can reason this out can arrive at their own conclusion.
I will say this: Stuff a Lifeline under the hood of a car, and compare lifespan to any flooded battery. Cost per year. That's the only thing that matters. Why is reality (perspective) so hard for some folks?
By the way for the OP ... you have stated that you like the idea that one can merely add more 12V voltage batteries in parallel to increase capacity as needed. This shouldn't be done "too simply". Two or more 12 volt batteries need to be wired together in parallel in a balanced configuration so each battery supplies the same current into loads or so each battery accepts the same current when being charged. Here's an article that helps to explain balanced interconnection methods for batteries in parallel: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
2005 E450 Itasca 24V Class C
pnichols wrote:
By the way for the OP ... you have stated that you like the idea that one can merely add more 12V voltage batteries in parallel to increase capacity as needed. This shouldn't be done "too simply". Two or more 12 volt batteries need to be wired together in parallel in a balanced configuration so each battery supplies the same current into loads or so each battery accepts the same current when being charged. Here's an article that helps to explain balanced interconnection methods for batteries in parallel: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
By the way for the OP ... you have stated that you like the idea that one can merely add more 12V voltage batteries in parallel to increase capacity as needed. This shouldn't be done "too simply". Two or more 12 volt batteries need to be wired together in parallel in a balanced configuration so each battery supplies the same current into loads or so each battery accepts the same current when being charged. Here's an article that helps to explain balanced interconnection methods for batteries in parallel: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
You're right about the balancing. I was reading heavily into that yesterday.
Now that I have learned the GC2's at Sams Club are Deka/East Penn Mfg, I think we're going to go that direction.
Cost wise:
3- 12v @ $120/ea = $360 = 315ah
4- 6v @ $ 85/ea = $340 = 430ah
Wiring and storage box will be more complex, but we'd like to put the Inverter and new PD charger/converter in there, too. It's going to be a real project (!)
Our batteries will be stored in a single row, not a square as some people can do in their storage compartments. Think "truck tool box" style.
The plan is to have the batteries in the middle section, partition it off and vent it, use one of the sides for the inverter, charger/converter, switches, etc and use the other side for tool storage.
Here is a pic of the tongue area
![[image]](http://www.diskdoctor.us/camper/Tongue%20area_sm.jpg)
I can move the Propane storage forward 4.5"-6" and not interfere with the electric jack (well, require moving the regulator if I ever have to use the manual override).
I can move or remove the current battery mount.
I cannot move the WDH linkages and must have unfettered access to them for the pipe/bar I use to set them when hitched.
I've seen toolboxes that are stepped in the front, so that could be an option, but I'm strongly considering making a custom box.
I like the idea of recessing the batteries (and weight) down in side the tongue.
The front edge of the camper is rounded, so as we come up vertically, we eventually lose about 6" of space between the propane bottles and the front edge of the camper.
I'm considering building a reinforced frame inside the box that would support a "shelf" on top to store the generator as some have done.
If we choose to later, the generator storage area could eventually be a generator box to provide for running it in place and connect to the electrical systems and chargers in the box below.
That's the "grand plan" anyways. Not sure how far we'll go with it, but as long as we don't inhibit the possibility for the future.
But for now, some front electrical box and management pics would be more appreciated so we can steal...ahem...consider those ideas.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/cool.gif "cool")
Stare and stare and stare and stare at Concorde's recommended BULK CHARGE and FLOAT VOLTAGE / temperature charts, for the Lifeline.
Eyes Crossed? Good.
Whatever Lifeline recommends as the ideal voltage for the temperature
Add one whole volt
Yeah, bulk max or float..
ADD A WHOLE VOLT
1.000000000 volts
14.4 Bulk to 15.4 bulk
13.3 Float to 14.3 float
Got it absorbed? Calculated?
Now take a WILD GUESS
Maintained at that incredible high level of voltage
How many lifespan cycles will be taken AWAY from optimum Lifeline lifespan cycles published data?
Careful now. We're talking about CYCLE LIFE. Not Tick-tock clock time.
Cycle life could care less about wristwatches or Big Ben.
Gimme a percentage. How many cycles are lost.
It's time this went to bed...
Quote:
But for now, some front electrical box and management pics would be more appreciated so we can steal...ahem...consider those ideas.
But for now, some front electrical box and management pics would be more appreciated so we can steal...ahem...consider those ideas.
I have a storage box on the tongue:
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/YxZSNZ7l.jpg)
It has been painted black.
Inside the box there is a terminal strip for trailer exterior wiring, a dedicated battery for the break-away brake system, and the rest is used for storage.
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/aw2UYGkl.jpg)
I chose to locate my batteries and electronics inside the trailer, for weight distribution and security. I can fit two grp 31's in the right side partition should I choose to do that.
westend wrote:
I have a storage box on the tongue...
I have a storage box on the tongue...
That looks like a nice way to organize things!
Our will be similar, but bigger and with some more "stuff" in it
We have only one really large storage area and I do not want to clutter it with a charger/converter and the inverter. Not smart to leave it exposed to the elements or other risks, either.
So the box will hold it all. The big ol' mystery box. Of Doom. The big ol' silver mystery box of doom