Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Travel Trailers: Lippert brake assistance, help please!

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Topic: Lippert brake assistance, help please!

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 08:09pm

I went to adjust the self adjusting brakes (didn't know when i started) and i was able to get it tight but can't back it down. I keep hearing that there is a tab to push in to be able to rotate the star wheel down. The family and I are supposed to be leaving tomorrow for a few night trip but i can't figure out how to loosen it up. Any help with pics is greatly appreciated! Supposedly i need to lift the spring plate up and push in some tab that I've heard is on the right or left of the star wheel but i can't find anything that would allow me to push. Removing the wheel to expose the brakes looks like a job too.

Thanks in advance!

Posted By: Old-Biscuit on 04/12/17 08:30pm

Brakes too tight you won't be able to get drum off

Self-adjusting brakes have a 'tab' that engages the teeth on star wheel

To back off adjuster you should have 2 slots on back of wheel. Look with bright narrow beam flashlight to see tab (left or right slot)
Then using a flat screw driver you push tab outward (away from you) while using brake tool (or another flat screw driver) to rotate star wheel.

Takes 2 hands, 2 tools and eye/hand coordination

[image]

Is it time for your medication or mine?

2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
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Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 08:37pm

i keep looking for this tab but i dont see anything that moves whatsoever but i'm sure i'm missing due to the tiny holes that all the work has to be done through. Can you describe the tab?

Thanks!

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 08:42pm

the plate that blocks all of this is a super PITA as well. Trying to keep it up while using 2 tools is an art form i haven't mastered yet. I don't know why this is so freaking difficult. I'm usually pretty good at figuring things out especially when it's spelled out but the spring plate and tiny holes makes this job super tough. I was just reading about removing the wheel but I guess that is a pointless effort since i've cranked this star wheel down so much. I was looking at another wheel and every time i moved the spring plate blocking everything, its moving the star wheel so i stopped messing with it in fear of goofing that one up too. Your help is beyond appreciated!

Posted By: Old-Biscuit on 04/12/17 08:59pm

the adjuster tab is on the other side of brake shoe ....place end of flat screw driver against it and push it away from star wheel.
Hold it away then using the other slot and tool move star wheel to loosen (move teeth DOWNWARD)

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 09:15pm

Old-Biscuit wrote:

I think that is the part I've been missing! Hopefully that will be the missing piece to the puzzle.

Posted By: time2roll on 04/12/17 09:16pm

Do you even have self adjusting brakes with a sawtooth wheel that only goes one way?

Otherwise you should be able to see a bracket or arm that automatically turns the adjusting wheel. Of course if working there is no need to manually adjust. Need to push or pull that adjusting arm away from the wheel.

2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
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Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 09:21pm

It feels right now it only goes one way but the only thing I know for sure is that they are lippert and I'm guessing self adjusting. I called them earlier and they said to adjust the self adjusters once every 3 months or 3k miles. Pretty sure these haven't ever been adjusted. Power on the P2 is all the way up and I feel them but no where close to locking them up. So I'm looking for an arm and not a tab? The drawing above looks like it's pointing to a spring attached to an arm. Is that right that I'm looking for an arm?

Appreciate it!!!!

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 09:23pm

Would the plate looking thing that's on a spring be it. It blockes the wheel but from above, I'm looking on the other side.

Posted By: pickjare on 04/12/17 09:26pm

Well if you can't find the tab, then you will have to force the star wheel. My guess is your trying to turn it the wrong way too making shoes even tighter. Figure out which way you need to go to loosen the brake, then just force the star adjuster to turn. That tab is not that hard to overcome. It will skip or bend out of the way so you can loosen the shoes. Then remove the drum and replace the tab. Or take it to a qualified person who can replace the linkage and tab. But for now, just force the star wheel to loosen the shoes. That tab will move out of the way.

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 09:39pm

pickjare wrote:

If I forced it, could it be used for the weekend. 2 hours there and 2 back?

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 09:39pm

If i force it will I be able to use it this weekend? I'm assuming down is the way I need to go on the drivers side. No?

Posted By: Old-Biscuit on 04/12/17 09:46pm

Move teeth on star wheel DOWN to loosen adjuster ------regardless of which side

Place brake spoon on top tooth and move it dow...repeat until wheel freely rotates

Then you can properly adjust.

tab/lever/self adjuster whatever....is item #2 in drawing. It is a metal plate that sits on star wheel teeth. SO if it is IN a tooth grove you will need to move it out of way OR FORCE it

I was never in the BIGGER HAMMER group. But do as you see fit

Lippert Self Adjusting-----'silver' piece to the right of magnet behind brake shoe is the 'self-adjuster tab'
[image]

And that Lippert statement about adjusting brakes every 3mos/3000 miles----they were referring to Standard drum brakes. But their self-adjusting do it automatically when braking. (Forward adjusting)
Marketing hype.

* This post was edited 04/12/17 09:53pm by Old-Biscuit *

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 09:50pm

Many thanks all! I feel more confident about being able to take the family on the promised trip! And I'm tired of being under that thing while being parked on the street.

Posted By: time2roll on 04/12/17 09:50pm

waltheraustin wrote:

If i force it will I be able to use it this weekend? I'm assuming down is the way I need to go on the drivers side. No?

I remember it as down-and-out
Push the lever (brake tool in your hand) down to move the shoes out.

You are too tight so move the lever up to move the shoes in. Same for both sides as one side is reverse thread.

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 10:03pm

Old-Biscuit wrote:

That pic helps a ton! So after this is fixed so I just drove backwards to help the others. Braking really stinks. I put on the P2 thinking it would help but they are far from locking up. Leave the others as is once this gets fixed or go after the other 3?

Thanks again!

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 10:27pm

Thanks for the quick help! Really appreciate the assistance! Hope to have some good news from the road tomorrow.

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 10:40pm

Hopefully I'll fix this one and won't need to mess with the others but I'm betting this haven't ever been touched except during build.

Posted By: time2roll on 04/12/17 10:45pm

Assuming you get this corrected I recommend adjusting the other 3.
Go slow so you are not backing anything up. Get a helper to spin the wheel while you adjust.

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/12/17 10:47pm

Ok, thanks! It will be much more methodical this next time. Good stopping power would be nice

Posted By: Old-Biscuit on 04/12/17 11:56pm

Once brake(s) are loosened IF they are 'self-adjusting' you can 'adjust' them by driving FORWARD ---apply trailer brakes...forward/brakes etc. Repeat.

Use brake controller manual lever...that applies full battery voltage

You don't have to go fast just apply brakes then off...move apply brakes then off....move etc

Each brake application causes tab to move brake star wheel WHEN it engages a tooth.....takes SEVERAL braking applications to get tab to engage.
After brake shoes are making slight contact with drum (no braking going on) then brake shoe material has to wear down enough for tab to again engage star wheel tooth and move it

Loosening star wheel ---DOWN on tooth (end of brake spoon UP)

Other wheels.......IF NO Braking action you may have to jack wheel up, rotate wheel and adjust star wheel until shoes just slightly touch (scraping noise) then let self adjuster finish finally adjstment

Posted By: westend on 04/13/17 05:00am

It is sometimes easier to find the self adjusting lever that holds the star wheel by placing a small flat blade screwdriver against the adjustment barrel and push inward. If the star wheel and barrel are in good shape, it will be easy to move the star wheel (no noise).

'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/13/17 06:09am

Got it, thanks!

Posted By: time2roll on 04/13/17 09:26am

When you get back from the trip it will be time to pull the brakes apart and see why the self adjusters have stopped working. With car drum brakes I found the issue was usually the adjusting screw needed to be disassembled, cleaned and dab with a small amount of white lithium grease. Or there could be some hardware out of place. Need to inspect.

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/13/17 10:19am

There must be a ton of pressure on the wheel from that plate that fits in the teeth of the wheel. Finally took tire of so I could get a better look. I've got a screwdriver and hitting it with a hammer but it doesn't budge. This officially seems to be the first thing I can't fix that I boogered up. I guess hitting it with a bigger hammer might finally break it free. I dunno but this is frustrating.

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/13/17 10:22am

how stable would you think this is with the arms out and 4 jack stands spread out? I hate being under stuff without tires on.

Posted By: Old-Biscuit on 04/13/17 10:24am

Take a 'loose wheel/drum assembly off and SEE how those self-adjusters are installed....then you will have a better idea on what is with the TIGHT one

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/13/17 11:44am

That's a good idea!

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/13/17 04:31pm

So ended having to get help to remove hub from axle to finally pry it off. Never saw a tab when it was completely taken apart. Wheel was just stuck. At least the hub got packed but now we're loaded up and about to hit the road.

I suppose I don't need to adjust but just drive and let them adjus themselves. Have to take it for safety inspection soon so I'll have it checked

Whelp, time for a 3 hour drive

Posted By: opnspaces on 04/13/17 06:00pm

Glad you got it apart and working enough to get on the road. Unfortunately no locking tab on the star wheel means no self adjusting brakes. When you get back from your trip pull each hub one at a time and make sure the star wheel is loose and can spin. Then put it back together and adjust the brakes up. I'll bet your brake controller is set too tight after adjustment.

2001 Suburban 4x4. 6.0L, 4.10 3/4 ton
2005 Jayco Jay Flight 27BH
1986 Coleman Columbia Popup.

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/13/17 06:13pm

It actually feels more grabby now after 40 min on the road. Definitely an improvement

Posted By: JBarca on 04/13/17 06:45pm

waltheraustin wrote:

Hi,

It sounds like you on the road and rolling for now. But there are some miss-conceptions I think still going on here.

On "self adjusting" brakes, you do not have to adjust them. They do it for you.

Something is miss-understood about your call with Lippert. The "manual" adjusting brakes you have to crawl under and adjust every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. They do not compensate for wear.

This explains why you never found the parts to unlock the adjuster pawl, as there may never have been any if they are manual adjusting brakes.

On manual adjust there is nothing but a spring across the adjuster to keep it from rotating.

[image]

The adjuster
[image]

The holding spring. As long as the adjuster is not froze up or jammed from being bottomed out, you just flick the adjuster to move it a click or 2 as needed either tight or loose.
[image]

If you have under-slung axles, I made this tool to help get in there
[image]

Take a piece of 1/4" round rod, pound (swedge) the end flat and bend as needed to get in
[image]

See this thread which may help Annual Brake Inspection and Axle Re - Lube (Pic's)

If by chance, you do have self adjusting brakes, they look like the ones of Old Biscuit's photo and they have a few more parts.

Here are mine, these are Dexter but they work the same as the Lippert. Now that Lippert owns Dexter, the Lippert's may even be made by Dexter for Lippert??

Notice the cable which is used to pull the adjusting pawl
[image]

The cable attaches to the silver adjusting pawl down by the adjuster
[image]

And here is the adjusting pawl that everyone was telling you about since you said you had self adjusting brakes. This silver pawl needs to be pulled back away from the brake drum side (pull towards you when facing the back side of the brake plate) to allow the pawl to unlock from the adjuster so you can manually "UN" adjust if you ever wanted to. To tighten them, you just rotate it, no need to move the locking pawl as it will ratchet over the pawl teeth. To un-adjust, you have to move the locking pawl first then turn the adjuster.
[image]

This post may help if you actually have self adjusting brakes. Dexter Self Adjusting Brakes (long W/pics and details)

I am still using those same self adjusting brakes I installed in 2009. I have never yet had to adjust one tighter. They stay right at full ideal settings all the time until the shoe lining is worn out.

If you have an out of round running brake drum by more then 0.015" TIR (total indicator reading) of runout on the brake shoe area, then you will have issues with that brake over adjusting and you have to crawl under and "un" adjust it. Then fix the out of round running brake drum or the issue will come back. Manual adjust brakes do not care if the drum is out of round, they still partly work as the break shoe wears and creates it own running clearance from the out of round drum. But self adjusters, need to have good true running drums.

Have a good trip and when you get back let's talk about what you learned and what you actually have on the camper.

Sorry I was late to the party....

Hope this helps

John

John & Cindy

2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
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Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver

2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/13/17 10:03pm

Thanks a lot everyone! Made it! Backing in with no light was fun but we're all setup. My star wheel has a spring around it. The guy helping me said they were self adjusting brakes. Does the spring wrapped around the star wheel make it self adjusting? This is all new to me. I should've taken pics when they were exposed.

Drove through a ton of rain so looks like pop out is leaking. That'll be my next adventure.

Thanks again! You guys are great!

Posted By: JBarca on 04/14/17 08:15am

waltheraustin wrote:

My star wheel has a spring around it. The guy helping me said they were self adjusting brakes. Does the spring wrapped around the star wheel make it self adjusting?

Hi,

If your brakes look like this:
[image]

With the spring over the top of the adjuster, then these are "manual" adjusting brakes that need to be adjusted approx every 3,000 miles. In this case, the spring acts like a detent lock to keep the adjuster from moving so vibration does not allow the adjuster to move. They will "never" adjust themselves properly. If the spring is bad (weak) they may vibrate out of adjustment. The spring also helps hold the 2 brakes shoes in place.

If you want to adjust them, you just use a brake tool or screw driver through the slot and ratchet the adjuster, either to make them tighter or looser. You will overcome the spring pressure and the adjuster will start moving. No need to try and push the spring out of the way.

Does yours look like this?

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/14/17 10:24am

No sir, it has a spring wrapped around the shaft that the star wheel is attached too.

Posted By: JBarca on 04/14/17 11:46am

waltheraustin wrote:

No sir, it has a spring wrapped around the shaft that the star wheel is attached too.

OK then let's try this. See these 3 pics

These are self adjusting trailer brakes. Look for the "cable" that starts at the top and wraps around a small pulley on the front shoe and stops at the adjusting ratchet pawl near the adjuster. There is also a "yellow" spring wrapped around the adjuster.
[image]

Here is a different view of the yellow spring
[image]

And here is a closer shot of the adjusting pawl. You can see the end of the yellow spring and there is a blue spring on the adjusting pawl holding it too the adjuster ratchet teeth
[image]

These self adjusting brakes, if they are working right, you will not need to adjust them.

Did yours look like this? They have the cable and the yellow looking spring. Your spring may not be yellow, but will be in the same location.

Hope this helps

John

Posted By: waltheraustin on 04/14/17 05:57pm

Those are them! I won't touch them again. I did learn that there is a zerk so is that sufficient for packing the bearing?

Thanks!

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