Although we do want to save money where we can, this is going to be our Long Term camper for extended trips of about a month or so at a time.
Some factors.
1. We do have a generator: Champion 3100 wireless remote start with 30 amp receptacle
2. Roof mount, ducted 13,500 AC
3. Likely upgrading to dual 6v golf cart batteries
4. Possibly a *little* solar in the next year or so
5. Charging line from Ford Excursion 7.3L Diesel through the 7 pin, or possibly a separate connector in the near future
6. 2 slides. Apparently these things "eat" power. Manuals say shore power might not be enough to operate them if your battery is low (!)
7. We're switching our lights over to LEDs
8. We have an upcoming WEEK without electrical hookups in June. We'll have the generator for an hour or so in the am and the eve.
9. Possible inverter in our future for short 120v usage (big maybe)
I asked similar questions for our Hybrid a few weeks ago, but we've upgraded to this 2005 Cougar 304BHS and will upgrade it instead.
Edit to add link to previous thread: earlier thread
Thanks for any help and suggestions.
* This post was edited 03/23/17 07:31am by DiskDoctr *
Not mine. Very well done: Removing charger portion of converter
WF-8955 specs page
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afidel wrote:
It's 3 stage but it's very weak and will not stay at 14.4V bulk charging for long even if it happens to get there. There's little chance that you'll be able to replenish your batteries in 2 hours a day with it unless you're in extreme conservation mode (no direct experience here but it's been a big topic of research for me)
It's 3 stage but it's very weak and will not stay at 14.4V bulk charging for long even if it happens to get there. There's little chance that you'll be able to replenish your batteries in 2 hours a day with it unless you're in extreme conservation mode (no direct experience here but it's been a big topic of research for me)
Thanks for your post.
Two questions come to mind then.
1. Should I plan on replacing the charger portion with something like PD 9260C
2. What about my un-regulated 12v LEDs? Will the converter hurt them, or does "filtered" mean also regulated?
Sorry for the amateur questions
There are 2 wires in (AC), 2 wires out (DC) and one ground. 2 Screws - and videos as noted but it is real simple to replace.
The voltage is 14.6 max which is a shade higher than most, that should not hurt LED lights.
The algorithm it uses is simple, and better than most units. If it determines the batteries need charging when AC is first applied it goes to 14.6 (max, current limit may prevent that at first) for 4 hours.
Note officially the unit you have is three stage. Some people with large battery banks and very short wires claim to have even seen it go into boost. Few people manage to actually see that as it has a terrible algorithm for deciding when to boost the voltage. I could not get mine to go into boost even with the battery hooked directly to the bus bar and with a near dead battery (12.1 volts).
......................................
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DiskDoctr wrote:
According to this specs page, it is already a 3-stage charger. Maybe I do not have to replace it?
WF-8955 specs page
Give it a go if you like. If working properly to charge low batteries you should see voltage steadily climb above 14.2 volts and hold for four hours. Good luck.According to this specs page, it is already a 3-stage charger. Maybe I do not have to replace it?
WF-8955 specs page
When you realize the WFCO is a fail I recommend this one: PD9260-14.8
The PD4655 is fine also at 14.4 volts if you are worried about the LEDs. Although most good ones I see are good from about 9 to 30 volts.
IOTA is also an excellent converter.
I would stay away from Boondocker. While it always starts in boost mode, boondocker cuts down to normal mode too soon. Depending on rating, wire connection, and battery boondocker drops voltage at about 75 percent charged. Then it is just a trickle to 90+ percent.
* This post was edited 03/23/17 09:18am by time2roll *
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horton333 wrote:
This is what I replaced mine with (I used the 75 Amp model).
There are 2 wires in (AC), 2 wires out (DC) and one ground. 2 Screws - and videos as noted but it is real simple to replace.
The voltage is 14.6 max which is a shade higher than most, that should not hurt LED lights.
The algorithm it uses is simple, and better than most units. If it determines the batteries need charging when AC is first applied it goes to 14.6 (max, current limit may prevent that at first) for 4 hours.
Note officially the unit you have is three stage. Some people with large battery banks and very short wires claim to have even seen it go into boost. Few people manage to actually see that as it has a terrible algorithm for deciding when to boost the voltage. I could not get mine to go into boost even with the battery hooked directly to the bus bar and with a near dead battery (12.1 volts).
This is what I replaced mine with (I used the 75 Amp model).
There are 2 wires in (AC), 2 wires out (DC) and one ground. 2 Screws - and videos as noted but it is real simple to replace.
The voltage is 14.6 max which is a shade higher than most, that should not hurt LED lights.
The algorithm it uses is simple, and better than most units. If it determines the batteries need charging when AC is first applied it goes to 14.6 (max, current limit may prevent that at first) for 4 hours.
Note officially the unit you have is three stage. Some people with large battery banks and very short wires claim to have even seen it go into boost. Few people manage to actually see that as it has a terrible algorithm for deciding when to boost the voltage. I could not get mine to go into boost even with the battery hooked directly to the bus bar and with a near dead battery (12.1 volts).
x2. it looks at charger output voltage AFTER it applies full current and if it is above a very low level, it drops to 13.6V.
The PD looks at converter voltage before it applies full current and if it below a reasonably high voltage it goes into boost mode.
myself and 4 others never could get a WFCO to go into boost mode, and we all went with a PD unit. Now we are happy
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Yeah, I'm pretty much convinced that we have to BUY a charging system of some sort after you guys reporting problems with the 8955.
time2roll- I'm catching up with the suggestions. I may be a little slow, but I'll get there! Love the 'try it if you want, then come back after you're sick of the trouble' comments. Wife looks at me strange when I chuckle at the keyboard
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
DiskDoctr wrote:
Isn't there a problem with the Boondockers going into boost mode or something?
They do boost mode every time. Trouble is they drop out too soon.
Isn't there a problem with the Boondockers going into boost mode or something?
time2roll wrote:
They do boost mode every time. Trouble is they drop out too soon.
They do boost mode every time. Trouble is they drop out too soon.
Thanks for clearing that up. Certainly looks like a replacement is in order...the Boondockers okay, or go for the PD?
time2roll wrote:
DiskDoctr wrote:
Isn't there a problem with the Boondockers going into boost mode or something?
They do boost mode every time. Trouble is they drop out too soon.Isn't there a problem with the Boondockers going into boost mode or something?
My understanding of them from the tech support guy (for the specific unit that replaces the WFCO under discussion here anyway) is that on detecting a battery needing charging it stays at 14.6V for 4 hours. I experimentally confirmed it is pretty smart about going into boost mode, and that for the 3 hours that is the longest I've run it it stays there even though current had gone way down. If you flip the AC power off and the battery still needs a charge it should then time another 4 hours.
Is there something I am missing or have not yet experienced?
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time2roll wrote:
OK that is the first post I have read where Boondocker holds boost more than a few minutes after reaching the set point of 14.6 volts. This is the BD1245, BD1255, and BD1275 main board replacement not the deck mount converters. If it holds 14.6 volts for four hours on the battery then it will work well. Many posts on the deck mount dropping out early and virtually no literature to confirm either way.
OK that is the first post I have read where Boondocker holds boost more than a few minutes after reaching the set point of 14.6 volts. This is the BD1245, BD1255, and BD1275 main board replacement not the deck mount converters. If it holds 14.6 volts for four hours on the battery then it will work well. Many posts on the deck mount dropping out early and virtually no literature to confirm either way.
I've no direct experience on the deck mount one to comment. Tech support there are quick to reply and seemed competent. Have they been contacted?
For something designed specifically for Boondocking that would be a significant design flaw.
I was just reviewing the information I was sent. It does make a note that it can drop out in only 15 minutes if the battery is determined to be charged. I wonder if it is possible for it to get fooled and I have just not seen it, I assume it was dropping out on people who had batteries that needed full voltage?
* This post was edited 03/23/17 10:27am by horton333 *
westend wrote:
Just get a progressive Dynamics converter. If you ever run two 6V GC2 golf cart batteries, you will need the 14.8V.
Just get a progressive Dynamics converter. If you ever run two 6V GC2 golf cart batteries, you will need the 14.8V.
Do they make a drop in 75 Amp replacement unit .....
See link above.
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DiskDoctr wrote:
I'll look into the 60 or 70 amp PD. I think 80 is larger from the pics
I'll look into the 60 or 70 amp PD. I think 80 is larger from the pics
According to the pics and listed dimensions, the 80 amp is 3 inches longer and just under 2 lbs heavier and $28.
Quote:
Input: 105-130 VAC, 1300 Watts
Output: 13.6 VDC, 80 Amps
Dimensions: 3.6" X 11.5 X 9
Weight: 7.5 lbs.
Input: 105-130 VAC, 1300 Watts
Output: 13.6 VDC, 80 Amps
Dimensions: 3.6" X 11.5 X 9
Weight: 7.5 lbs.
Any reason NOT to go with the 80 amp? On battery power, will it run hotter, use more 12v, or anything else?
I'd really appreciate an opinion on PD 9280C 80 Amp RV Converter/Charger, found at Best Converter
Progressive Dynamics is pretty much top of the line, right?
Quote:
Progressive Dynamics is pretty much top of the line, right?
Progressive Dynamics is pretty much top of the line, right?
Pretty much, and their customer service is excellent. FWIW, I have a PD converter that is 45 yrs old and is still operating perfectly.
DiskDoctr wrote:
According to the pics and listed dimensions, the 80 amp is 3 inches longer and just under 2 lbs heavier and $28.
Any reason NOT to go with the 80 amp? On battery power, will it run hotter, use more 12v, or anything else?
I'd really appreciate an opinion on PD 9280C 80 Amp RV Converter/Charger, found at Best Converter
Progressive Dynamics is pretty much top of the line, right?
DiskDoctr wrote:
I'll look into the 60 or 70 amp PD. I think 80 is larger from the pics
I'll look into the 60 or 70 amp PD. I think 80 is larger from the pics
According to the pics and listed dimensions, the 80 amp is 3 inches longer and just under 2 lbs heavier and $28.
Quote:
Input: 105-130 VAC, 1300 Watts
Output: 13.6 VDC, 80 Amps
Dimensions: 3.6" X 11.5 X 9
Weight: 7.5 lbs.
Input: 105-130 VAC, 1300 Watts
Output: 13.6 VDC, 80 Amps
Dimensions: 3.6" X 11.5 X 9
Weight: 7.5 lbs.
Any reason NOT to go with the 80 amp? On battery power, will it run hotter, use more 12v, or anything else?
I'd really appreciate an opinion on PD 9280C 80 Amp RV Converter/Charger, found at Best Converter
Progressive Dynamics is pretty much top of the line, right?
the only reason I have for not going as big as you can get relates to your generator choice. In the case of the OP he is probably ok with anything. with a honda 2000, A PD 60A is pushing the limit for the honda VA rating, Power factor is terrible. the 80A exceeds the honda 2000 VA rating when at max output current.
PD, Iota, boondocker are all good units. I have a 45A in my small trailer and a 55A drop in the WFCO box along with a 60A in the pass through I can parallel with in my big trailer. That way with shore power or honda's paralleled I can get over 100A into my 4GC bank if needed.
80amp vs 60amp, I was reading the input requires 20 amp breaker vs 15 amp. My current system has a 15 amp breaker, but I can easily change the Square D Homeline breaker.
I also read an upgrade to 4 gauge wire to the batteries should be used for 80 amp. My distance is probably 25ft from converter to batteries.
Does this sound about right?
BTW, 100 amps with 4 GC batteries? Cool! #jealous#
And 45 YEARS! Wow. That's quite the endorsement
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DiskDoctr wrote:
7. We're switching our lights over to LEDs
7. We're switching our lights over to LEDs
I switched to these lights several years ago and they are still working perfect.
For a charger/converter. a 3 stage charging system will be the best you can buy.
Bob
DiskDoctr wrote:
Thanks all for the input and good discussion. If I can pick your brains just a bit longer...
80amp vs 60amp, I was reading the input requires 20 amp breaker vs 15 amp. My current system has a 15 amp breaker, but I can easily change the Square D Homeline breaker.
I also read an upgrade to 4 gauge wire to the batteries should be used for 80 amp. My distance is probably 25ft from converter to batteries.
Does this sound about right?
BTW, 100 amps with 4 GC batteries? Cool! #jealous#
And 45 YEARS! Wow. That's quite the endorsement
Thanks all for the input and good discussion. If I can pick your brains just a bit longer...
80amp vs 60amp, I was reading the input requires 20 amp breaker vs 15 amp. My current system has a 15 amp breaker, but I can easily change the Square D Homeline breaker.
I also read an upgrade to 4 gauge wire to the batteries should be used for 80 amp. My distance is probably 25ft from converter to batteries.
Does this sound about right?
BTW, 100 amps with 4 GC batteries? Cool! #jealous#
And 45 YEARS! Wow. That's quite the endorsement
Hmm, at 25' I think I'd go with a deck mount charger, even if you put in 14.8V and used massive 1AWG cable you'd still only be putting 14.3V into the battery which is barely enough to really charge it at a decent pace. That's the one drawback of low voltage DC, distance kills your efficiency.
afidel wrote:
Hmm, at 25' I think I'd go with a deck mount charger, even if you put in 14.8V and used massive 1AWG cable you'd still only be putting 14.3V into the battery which is barely enough to really charge it at a decent pace. That's the one drawback of low voltage DC, distance kills your efficiency.
Hmm, at 25' I think I'd go with a deck mount charger, even if you put in 14.8V and used massive 1AWG cable you'd still only be putting 14.3V into the battery which is barely enough to really charge it at a decent pace. That's the one drawback of low voltage DC, distance kills your efficiency.
Deck mounted...as in MOVE the charger/converter, or use a separate one?
Doesn't the charger also supply 12V to the coach?
So I'd have potential voltage loss going back to the circuit panel, but likely never use the number of amps the battery charging would, right?
DiskDoctr wrote:
Deck mounted...as in MOVE the charger/converter, or use a separate one?
Doesn't the charger also supply 12V to the coach?
So I'd have potential voltage loss going back to the circuit panel, but likely never use the number of amps the battery charging would, right?
afidel wrote:
Hmm, at 25' I think I'd go with a deck mount charger, even if you put in 14.8V and used massive 1AWG cable you'd still only be putting 14.3V into the battery which is barely enough to really charge it at a decent pace. That's the one drawback of low voltage DC, distance kills your efficiency.
Hmm, at 25' I think I'd go with a deck mount charger, even if you put in 14.8V and used massive 1AWG cable you'd still only be putting 14.3V into the battery which is barely enough to really charge it at a decent pace. That's the one drawback of low voltage DC, distance kills your efficiency.
Deck mounted...as in MOVE the charger/converter, or use a separate one?
Doesn't the charger also supply 12V to the coach?
So I'd have potential voltage loss going back to the circuit panel, but likely never use the number of amps the battery charging would, right?
I'd use a separate one and disable (disconnect) the one in your converter, and yes the idea is that you'd never be drawing anywhere near 80A from your 12V outlets so the voltage drop is less of an issue.
afidel wrote:
I'd use a separate one and disable (disconnect) the one in your converter, and yes the idea is that you'd never be drawing anywhere near 80A from your 12V outlets so the voltage drop is less of an issue.
I'd use a separate one and disable (disconnect) the one in your converter, and yes the idea is that you'd never be drawing anywhere near 80A from your 12V outlets so the voltage drop is less of an issue.
And run a new 115 volt line form the box, thick gauge for an 80 Amp converter. A lot of work all told as compared to a dropin that gets you 95% of the way there.....just sayin'
If you are a typical RV owner and use the usual amount of 12V power while boondocking, the generator only comes out every other day or once a day. The larger converters will only shave off a few minutes of generator runtime as the last bit of charging at lower amps is what the batteries need to be fully charged.
One last wrinkle: Nearly all 6V GC2 golf cart batteries like a charge voltage of 14.8 or higher. The plate construction and consequent charge acceptance is in play with that. AFAIK, no WFCO converter delivers that. The PD converters will operate at 14.8 V. The overall result of charging at a lower voltage will be loss of battery capacity and will somewhat effect longevity. How much that will be is an experiment I'm still carrying out.
My suggestion is to either install a deck mount converter close to the batteries, keeping your WFCO in place and the OEM wiring. A 120V AC wire would be needed to power the converter and, possibly, an additional circuit breaker installed. An alternative is to buy a replacement PD converter, a drop in (PD4060 or PD4045)and either live with the OEM wiring or, if possible, upgrade the wire. Most travel trailers have the converter->battery wire run along the frame so upgrading is not that difficult.
Good luck with your converter upgrade.