Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Truck Campers: Another overload topic

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Topic: Another overload topic

Posted By: Kayteg1 on 02/27/17 03:52pm

Click For Full-Size Image.
This is my new F350 dually with about 5000 lb camper on it.
I did not had a chance to drive it yet, as need some more parts, but looking at the suspension, the top overload is just barely under the tension, while I still have space to lower overload.
The bed over axle squat 3 1/2" under the load.
What are the chances I will need any upgrade or addition?

Posted By: towpro on 02/27/17 04:14pm

Is it riding level loaded?

2022 Ford F150
Sold: 2016 Arctic Fox 990, 2018 Ram 3500, 2011 Open Range
Sold Forest River Forester 2401R Mercedes Benz. when campsites went from $90 to $190 per night.

Posted By: Area13 on 02/27/17 04:18pm

With my older SD SRW, the more i'm mashed into those overloads, the less sway I get. I put a little too much air in my bags to where it looks like your picture, i'm wobbelin. 2 different animals I know, but I would think about upper stable loads unless you're totally rock solid.

2020 Outdoors RV 21RD
2015 F-150 FX4 5.0 3.73

Posted By: Kayteg1 on 02/27/17 04:19pm

The camper come to perfect level on the truck.

Posted By: Farmerjon on 02/27/17 04:42pm

I agree with area13. I would want those overloads to be helping more.

2015 F350 Lariat CC LB 4x4 DRW 6.7, 6sp auto, 3.73
2000 F350 lariat SC LB 4x4 DRW 7.3, 6sp manual 3.73
1987 F250 Lariat SC/LB 4x4 SRW 460 4sp stick 4.10
1995 Jeep wrangler
99 Star Craft 953

Posted By: MudChucker on 02/27/17 04:42pm

Looks good to me, youve got lots of room to go.

2017 Cougar
2015 Ram 3500 Megacab 6.7 Cummins Aisin transmission

Posted By: Rubiranch on 02/27/17 04:57pm

So that'a what it looks like underneath a brand new truck [emoticon]

Posted By: towpro on 02/27/17 06:31pm

Mine is level, and stock springs. I Plan on keeping it that way. If you want to lower the sway, buy a bigwig sway bar. They are designed to be a torsion spring that only reduces sway. It does not provide lift.

Posted By: jefe 4x4 on 02/28/17 09:35am

I'm impressed with Ford engineers' ability to adapt the upper secondaries to modern use. Alex concocted this set up to haul his Lance 815 camper on his 2007, F-250: note the homemade block:

Here's my 2001 Dodge 2500 set up with 3 upper secondaries, and one helper spring in the main pack. You don't see the upper Stable Loads. This is the spring tension without the camper on.

As always, try it out as is and then assess whether you need more secondary capacity. If the pic above is your dry set up, without all your camping or traveling goods, chances are you will need more help. Just looking at the set up tells me you could use one more stock, upper secondary leaf. These do not come into play until you have a load. You will still have some suspension travel. The actual thick lower overload spring has virtually no flex and is just the last resort for your suspension to bottom out on without hyper extending the leaves. Anytime you 'fix' your overload spring to the rest of the pack (like with a lower StableLoad) you doom yourself to a very minimum of flex and a stiff ride. If you find you get too much sway, add a thicker anti sway bar but know that it's a two edged sword.
It's still nice to see a brand spanking new truck suspension with shiny black paint reflecting back some great trips to come.
jefe

* This post was edited 02/28/17 09:46am by jefe 4x4 *

'01.5 Dodge 2500 4x4, CTD, Qcab, SB, NV5600, 241HD, 4.10's, Dana 70/TruTrac; Dana 80/ TruTrac, Spintec hub conversion, H.D. susp, 315/75R16's on 7.5" and 10" wide steel wheels, Vulcan big line, Warn M15K winch '98 Lance Lite 165s, 8' 6" X-cab, 200w Solar

Posted By: tattoobob on 02/28/17 06:10pm

I wonder if anyone has tried to fab some thicker stops using Hockey pucks, My 73 Chevy Caprice convertible I had, had 3 puck lift which lifts the body from the frame

2005 Ford F350 SRW 4x4

2000 Lance 1010

Posted By: jimh406 on 02/28/17 06:39pm

tattoobob wrote:

I wonder if anyone has tried to fab some thicker stops using Hockey pucks, My 73 Chevy Caprice convertible I had, had 3 puck lift which lifts the body from the frame

Yes, people have used hockey pucks.

I use Energy Suspension bump stops to add a little more overload when I have air bags inflated. They are inexpensive and seem work fine. They obviously don't take up as much space as Torklift StableLoads.

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member

Posted By: Bedlam on 02/28/17 07:26pm

I was going to suggest ES bump stops for Kayteg. They will compress to half the height of TL pads but will still be twice as thick as the stock ones.

Chevy Sonic 1.8-Honda Passport C70B-Host Mammoth 11.5-Interstate Car Carrier 20-Joyner SandViper 250-Kawasaki Concours ZG1000-Paros 8' flatbed-Pelican Decker DLX 8.75-Ram 5500 HD

Posted By: pcoplin on 02/28/17 08:14pm

I would say go drive it before you make a decision. If it's stable, then run it.

2005 F350 CCLB Dually 6.0/5R110
2009 Adventurer 950B

Posted By: Rubiranch on 02/28/17 11:52pm

I was told before I purchased my camper that my truck would handle it fine.

They told me all airbags would do is help with the sway which is not enough for me to even worry about.

If your truck is level with the camper I don't know why you would worry about overloads. It apparently isn't overloaded.

Posted By: Terrick down Under on 03/01/17 12:40am

I simply fitted 4 bump stops to the bottom overload spring and that worked really well me.

* This post was edited 03/05/17 01:53pm by an administrator/moderator *

Posted By: towpro on 03/01/17 05:57am

Here is what the Dodge SRW (2006) looks like with the Energy Suspension blocks installed.

[image]

I think they are Energy Suspension 9.9109G 2-1/2". change G to R and they will be Red.

On that truck road stock height empty, but settled about 1-2" higher loaded. I put them on when I used to tow a 5er. They still were higher than level with Wolf Creek 840 loaded.

Wish I had a picture of them loaded, they really used to crush up pretty well.

But look at the trucks with factory air suspension. they ride level when loaded. I want my spring suspended truck to also ride level when fully loaded.

Posted By: stevenal on 03/01/17 08:56am

http://www.torklift.com/index.php/products/suspension/stableload

'18 Bigfoot 1500
Torklifts and Fastguns
'17 F350 Powerstroke Supercab SRW LB 4X4

Posted By: Kayteg1 on 03/01/17 10:10am

I will drive the camper on new truck on Saturday, so post my impression then.
Not only the new ties don't fit too well, but new truck has taller sides, so I had to buy 3/4" plywood to shim it.
Still I have like 1/8" clearances to load it and seems wheels are wider than my 2007 had as I have to drive over jack foot to get under.
Its been years since I was practicing mechanics, but still the lower stableloads look to me like spring breaker.
They put the load on main pack in the point and shape the springs were never design for.
How many owners had broken springs when using lower SL ?

Posted By: jimh406 on 03/01/17 10:20am

I don't remember reading about anyone breaking a spring pack with the lower StableLoads, and I watch this forum pretty closely. I guess it's possible, but I don't think they have that much load on them.

Posted By: towpro on 03/01/17 12:30pm

Keyteg, if your riding level but feel you have a problem with sway, I don't see how any kind of spring additions or gizmos will help. This is designed to combat sway. Not sure if its the correct one for your application but if the cost is the same, it will be the best $250 you can throw at any sway problem.

add anything to your suspension can have a down side.

The down sides I have experience in my Ram with a sway bar are as follows.
1) if going slow over a speed bump empty, where one wheel goes over bump before the other wheel, the suspension will feel rough as the sway bar trys to keep both rear wheels moving at same time.

2) Going around off ramps I don't feel much lean and I can tend to go faster than I should.

3) Now I don't go off road 4-wheeling, but my brother broke a link on his jeep sway bar in an off road situation.

Posted By: sonuvabug on 03/02/17 01:59pm

If you're looking for earlier contact with your upper, then perhaps these will help give you a little more engagement.

Supersway-stops

I added the rear Sumo Springs to help my older truck. But then I was looking for three things: 1) more load handling capacity; 2) less sag and; 3) less sway. I go all three with the Sumo Springs.

2007 Adventurer 90fws Truck Camper
2001 FORD F250 SuperCab; 8' box; 4x4, 7.3l diesel, rear Sumo Springs

Posted By: Grodyman on 03/02/17 06:52pm

sonuvabug wrote:

These are nice products for sure, but the price is outrageous. Energy Suspension should have something that will fit the bill for about 1/10 the cost. Good luck.
Gman

2017 F150 CC/5.5' 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost/3.55
2018 Passport Ultra-Lite 153ML

Posted By: Kayteg1 on 03/04/17 05:24pm

So I drove with the camper 40 miles today.
Driving motion added about 1" to the squat, so now the main springs are firmly engaging overloads. Still about 1.5" to rubber axle bumpers.
I also weight the truck and I have 9250 lb on 9900 lb rated rear axle.
I drove 70 mph on the freeway and it was 1-hand driving, so can't complain beside sensitivity to side wind.
Driving via the scales show that my camper has center of gravity behind the axle as it took off +- 100lb from front axle.
Another observation - my 4300lb winterized camper "grew" to 5600lb with just regural stuff and full water tank.
I had rear holding tanks empty, while full water tank is right behind the cabin, so there is not much I can do to move center of gravity.
Generator is in the rear, propane tanks and batteries as well.
I can move 15lb tool box from the rear into truck cabin and that is about it.
Bottom line, I am already pretty happy and will be happier gaining the 1" back, so I placed order on sack of hockey pucks.

Posted By: GeoBoy on 03/05/17 11:53am

Kayteg1 wrote:

Only 750 lbs. to spare on your rear axle is too close for comfort for me.

Posted By: Reddog1 on 03/05/17 01:51pm

Kayteg1 wrote:

I also weight the truck and I have 9250 lb on 9900 lb rated rear axle.

If I understand correctly, the 9900 lb is from the door sticker/decal. If so, I would be comfortable with that.

It does make me question the 9250 on the rear axle. If the TC is 5600 lb, that means the rear axle load is 4300 without the TC. Am I missing something or is that correct?

Kayteg1 wrote:

Driving via the scales show that my camper has center of gravity behind the axle as it took off +- 100lb from front axle.

I don't think the COG is behind the axle. I think it is directly over the axle.

On my extended cab 2500, my TC added about 200 lbs to the front axle. On my Quad Cab, it lightened the load. I do not recall the amount, but it had to be more than 200 lb. I think the front end weight change is due to wheelbase, not the location of the axle in this case. On my two trucks, the TC location relative to the rear axle is the same.

I moved the TC back one inch on the Quad Cab, and it only reduced the front axle load by less than twenty pounds.

Wayne

Posted By: Kayteg1 on 03/05/17 08:37pm

If the camper weights 5600lb and the rear went from 3500 to 9250 lb, the remaining load had to come from front axle.
All those measurements come with +- 100lb error margin as one time I had DW + dogs, the other time some tools in the cabin.
I don't mind overloading the axle as long as the tire have some room to spare. My 4 rear tires give me 11,640 lb load capacity, so I am good.
Today I put another 250 miles to finish 300 miles tomorrow.
Averaging 12 mpg with CC at 65mph.
The truck enter 5th hundred on odometer. So far everything looks very good.
I know not much can be done to side wind sensitivity, but on freeway joints, occasionally the truck porpoise more than my liking.
I remember such issue with F450 and air bags cure it quite nicely, but bags for 2017 models are priced out of proportion and the problem is too small to justify the expense.

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