A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 Super Duty 7.3 XLT 4x4 longbed (non-dually), with stock heavy duty helper springs; am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper, preferably w/ toilet & shower (even if the shower is just an outside shower), weighing at no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable my wife an I to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement-king) and still tow my zodiac dive boat.
Hard-side (HS) VS Pop-Up (PU) TC's Pros and Cons (?)
First, I am getting the feeling that this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with First-Hand Experience hauling/using BOTH. HS'ers often make comments like, "It's just a tent in the back of your truck!" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and PU'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between a HS & PU) are:
Hard-Sides (HS)
-Stay Warmer/Cooler
-Heavier Dry Weight (generally)
-More 'Top Heavy', w/ more Sway/roll issues, etc.
-Less Versatile (for off road/non-campground camping)
-Usually Cheaper to Buy Used than PU's
-More 'Standard' Creature Comforts
-Quieter Inside and Easier to 'Stealth' Camp/rest/eat/etc.
Pop-Ups (PU)
-Better for Gas Mileage
-Lighter Dry Weight, Lower Center of Gravity & Lower Profile
-Get Colder/Hotter Quicker
-Can be Obtained with all the 'Comforts' of HS, however w/weights approaching small HS's
-Are Harder to Find and are More Expensive to Buy Used than HS
-Easier to Drive and Store
-More of the 'Real Camping' Experience (i.e., closer to nature)
Thanks!
* This post was last edited 02/21/17 08:15pm by DiverDan80 *
Quote:
Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups
Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides
Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups
Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides
I have owned both, an Alaskan for ten years and two hard sides since around the mid '80s. Both have their place. If you do a lot of 4x4 off road driving the pop up will likely work better. Otherwise, the limitations of the pop up need to be taken into consideration as to basic amenities like showers, larger refers, more storage, etc. typically found in the hard side campers. Both can be very expensive and both can be quite heavy, sometimes surprisingly heavy for pop ups. If you are into expedition overland off road stuff the pop up would definitely be my choice. Otherwise I would look at a hard side. One thing I found with my Alaskan was the depreciation after ten years was only $500; of course, the new ones kept getting more and more expensive that kept the price of a good used unit from much depreciation. I have not enjoyed that kind of limited depreciation on my two hardsides. I carried a small boat on the roof rack of my Alaskan. Extreme care would have been needed if I carried the boat on my hard side campers as to height. If you are into parking garages neither will work. If you want to tow something and can live without slides and lots of amenities the pop up might be the better option. I found drivability with the pop up to be easier than either hard side. My second hard side was just under eleven feet and basically required a dually. Most pop ups can be easily carried on a single rear wheel one ton or maybe a gas engine heavy duty three quarter ton.
'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.
The HS do keep out both heat and cold better, but I was able to stay plenty warm in the PU during my hunting trips when done properly. If by "less versatile" on the HS's you mean less able to get into places, well that is true, but how off road will you go? I took my PU into some real deep back woods areas of the Rocky Mountains and I cannot get there with my current set-up, I feel (generally) that most TC'ers here do not go really off raoding like I did... there are some who do but you need to ask yourself: will you be going deep into off road situations where the PU will make that much of a difference.
I like both and if I could I would have one of each... there is nothing like camping in the hills next to a stream and hearing the rushing waters at night or coyotes howling in the distance. Yes, the HS's keep out natures sounds.
For me I like the even simpler aspects of the HS by not needing to crank it up. I find a spot, level it, open a beer and I am camping. The HS also gives a better advantage of "stealth" camping. With a PU in the up position it sort of gives it away that someone in inside for the night. With an non-slide HS then it is more like "parking incognito."
Sold the TC, previous owner of 2 NorthStar pop-ups & 2 Northstar Arrows...still have the truck:
2005 Dodge 3500 SRW, Qcab long bed, NV-6500, diesel, 4WD, Helwig, 9000XL,
Nitto 285/70/17 Terra Grapplers, Honda eu3000Is, custom overload spring perch spacers.
DiverDan80 wrote:
First off, I wanted to thank everyone for responding to my first/last post! Now a new question for all you TC gurus!
A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 SD 7.3 XLT 4x4 long bed (non-dually) with heavy duty overload springs and am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper (preferably with toilet & shower) no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable me to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement king) and tow my zodiac dive boat.
Hard-side VS Pop-Up TC's Pros and Cons (?)
First, I am getting this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with first-hand experience hauling/using BOTH. Hard-siders make comments like, "It's a tent in the back of your truck" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and pop-up'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between the two types) are:
Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups
Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides
Thanks!
First off, I wanted to thank everyone for responding to my first/last post! Now a new question for all you TC gurus!
A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 SD 7.3 XLT 4x4 long bed (non-dually) with heavy duty overload springs and am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper (preferably with toilet & shower) no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable me to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement king) and tow my zodiac dive boat.
Hard-side VS Pop-Up TC's Pros and Cons (?)
First, I am getting this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with first-hand experience hauling/using BOTH. Hard-siders make comments like, "It's a tent in the back of your truck" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and pop-up'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between the two types) are:
Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups
Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides
Thanks!
I have a 2002 Lance 815, bought it new and still have it. When you refer to "light" I guessing you mean weight. The manufacture uses "light" in options up can get as in my Lance 815 just about everything was a option. As far as having a wet bath in a pop-up your going to be almost as heavy as a Lance 815 or a Lance 165s. I bought a hardside because I didn't want to have to raise and low the roof section especially during bad weather. I don't known if your looking for new or used, Lance 815 can only be found used. If you a tall person this camper could be a problem since it has a low profile for a hardside. I'm 5'6" tall and the ceiling is only about 4" higher. The bottom line is what YOU want.
Death Valley NP, Ca.
![[image]](https://photos.smugmug.com/Travel/Death-Valley-A-Weekend-Trip/i-xKR2cwH/0/L/Death%20Valley%2C%2011-10-2012%20part1%20307-L.jpg)
Mojave Road Trail,Ca.
![[image]](https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zjq96nm/1/L/i-zjq96nm-L.jpg)
2007 F-250 4x4 /6.0 PSD/ext cab/ 2020 Bunduvry
Lance 815/ 85 watts solar panel (sold)
2020 Bunduvry by BundutecUSA
Travelingman2 Photo Website
Truck Camper Trip Reports 3.0
travelingman21000 YouTube Videos
Alex and Julie's Travels Blog
Also the popup did not fare as well in cold and rainy weather. It was dry allright, but still you have the wet fabric, and that is all that separates you from the sometimes not so great outdoors.
When it is warm and dry and nice and sunny, nothing beats the popup :-)
2014 Ford F350 XLT 6.2 SCLB + 2017 Northstar Arrow
Almost ended up in a Northstar PU. Very nice units. Weights were a wash between the Wolf Creek HS and the Northstar PU -- The Northstar would have been much easier to drive. The Wolf Creek is more luxurious.
Ranger Tim
2006 F-350 Super Crew King Ranch SRW Bulletproofed
2016 Wolf Creek 840
Upper and Lower StableLoads
2012 ram 2500 hemi crew cab sb 4x4 2015 northstar 850 sc 14.5 g3 guide custom fly fishing boat
Ranger Tim wrote:
How old are you? If I had been ten or fifteen years younger I would have gone with a Popup. We are generally less adventurous now so we opted for the convenience of a HS and accept its limitations to accessibility. That and the ability to use it as a warm room for astronomy make the HS a winner for us.
How old are you? If I had been ten or fifteen years younger I would have gone with a Popup. We are generally less adventurous now so we opted for the convenience of a HS and accept its limitations to accessibility. That and the ability to use it as a warm room for astronomy make the HS a winner for us.
Here's were I truly agree. We have an Outfitter Apex 8 (pop-up) and while I love the lower profile, lighter weight and all of the windows, as I get older (DW stays the same age) I'm finding less and less "fun" to climb up/down that uncomfortable ladder (especially in the middle of the night). Also, popping DOWN requires I bring an extra step stool to latch the top after lowering. Lastly, as others have said, when on a road trip, stealth camping is out of the question - I'd say impossible.
For these reasons the DW has had me looking at alternatives (Fiver, motorhome, etc.) and I just can't bring myself to do it. Consequently I think the Apex 8 is getting sold and we'll be looking for something like an AF-865 or small, hardside slide camper --- really soon.
You really have to ask yourself, how much HARD off roading are you looking to do and how often. Compare that to the time spent camping in "more conventional" spots (even mildly off road) and then ask if the drawbacks of the pop-up are worth it for the difference in time spent in either location. BTW - when I was a younger (more adventurous) lad, I used to get my SixPac (hardside) into some pretty tough off road areas in the high Sierra. As I age I find it less desirable to take my $65,000 truck (and Camper) into perilous conditions that put the rig and us at any danger of damage or rescue.
Just my thoughts - I'm sure you'll hear many pros/cons for both.
2018 Arctic Fox 811
2015 RAM 3500 SRW Laramie Longhorn 6.7 Cummins 68RFE Timbren SES, Lower Stableloads
2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Laramie 5.9 Cummins 48RE TRADED
2006 Outfitter Apex 8 TRADED
There are a lot of pros and cons listed above. IMO it really depends on what you want to do with the camper. Like I wrote, when the weather is right, camping in a popup is the best there is - for me.
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/IXviPsx.jpg)
2012 Chevy 2500HD LTZ CCSB 4x4 gas
2012 Four Wheel Camper Hawk
2008 Harley Street Glide
jmtandem wrote:
I have owned both, an Alaskan for ten years and two hard sides since around the mid '80s. Both have their place. If you do a lot of 4x4 off road driving the pop up will likely work better. Otherwise, the limitations of the pop up need to be taken into consideration as to basic amenities like showers, larger refers, more storage, etc. typically found in the hard side campers. Both can be very expensive and both can be quite heavy, sometimes surprisingly heavy for pop ups. If you are into expedition overland off road stuff the pop up would definitely be my choice. Otherwise I would look at a hard side. One thing I found with my Alaskan was the depreciation after ten years was only $500; of course, the new ones kept getting more and more expensive that kept the price of a good used unit from much depreciation. I have not enjoyed that kind of limited depreciation on my two hardsides. I carried a small boat on the roof rack of my Alaskan. Extreme care would have been needed if I carried the boat on my hard side campers as to height. If you are into parking garages neither will work. If you want to tow something and can live without slides and lots of amenities the pop up might be the better option. I found drivability with the pop up to be easier than either hard side. My second hard side was just under eleven feet and basically required a dually. Most pop ups can be easily carried on a single rear wheel one ton or maybe a gas engine heavy duty three quarter ton.
x2. Fully agree with your comments. I might add that after having a WHITE KNUCKLE blowout at interstate speeds on the left rear of our f-250 the hard side had to go or buy a DRW truck. Bottom line that is why we now have a DRW truck and a popup.That is just my personal safety margin.
Quote:
Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups
Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides
Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups
Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides
I have owned both, an Alaskan for ten years and two hard sides since around the mid '80s. Both have their place. If you do a lot of 4x4 off road driving the pop up will likely work better. Otherwise, the limitations of the pop up need to be taken into consideration as to basic amenities like showers, larger refers, more storage, etc. typically found in the hard side campers. Both can be very expensive and both can be quite heavy, sometimes surprisingly heavy for pop ups. If you are into expedition overland off road stuff the pop up would definitely be my choice. Otherwise I would look at a hard side. One thing I found with my Alaskan was the depreciation after ten years was only $500; of course, the new ones kept getting more and more expensive that kept the price of a good used unit from much depreciation. I have not enjoyed that kind of limited depreciation on my two hardsides. I carried a small boat on the roof rack of my Alaskan. Extreme care would have been needed if I carried the boat on my hard side campers as to height. If you are into parking garages neither will work. If you want to tow something and can live without slides and lots of amenities the pop up might be the better option. I found drivability with the pop up to be easier than either hard side. My second hard side was just under eleven feet and basically required a dually. Most pop ups can be easily carried on a single rear wheel one ton or maybe a gas engine heavy duty three quarter ton.
05 dodge 3500 cummins diesel, 8.5 alaskan on flatbed
We can have lunch without popping the top. (I can actually stand with the top down but I'm short.) I don't think I'd use the stove without popping up though. It doesn't take long to pop it up or down. Northstar claims that their new models allow use of the toilet with the top down (when I was looking you couldn't).
My pop-up experience has only been with an Alaskan camper and it is a hard side pop-up as fabric is not used between the top and the bottom of the camper. So, some of the comments about water/dampness/drying and noise are not really relevant with the Alaskan. While I never felt that my Alaskan was especially light nor inexpensive to purchase, it was the truck camper equivalent of an Airstream trailer. Extremely well made, hydraulic pump raises and lowers the top, no rubber roof nor filon/gel in the sides. They are clearly designed for longevity.
MKish wrote:
I have a Northstar 800 popup. It's short on storage because cabinets don't go all the way up (obviously!) and we travel with 2 children and sometimes a large dog. The fridge is a little small. It's nice and airy and I prefer the tenty feel to the RV feel. It fits in my garage (NOT on the truck though). It's warm and waterproof. We've been in heavy rain and wind and stayed dry. Only taken it down to about 30F but it was fine (we don't sleep with the furnace on).
We can have lunch without popping the top. (I can actually stand with the top down but I'm short.) I don't think I'd use the stove without popping up though. It doesn't take long to pop it up or down. Northstar claims that their new models allow use of the toilet with the top down (when I was looking you couldn't).
I have a Northstar 800 popup. It's short on storage because cabinets don't go all the way up (obviously!) and we travel with 2 children and sometimes a large dog. The fridge is a little small. It's nice and airy and I prefer the tenty feel to the RV feel. It fits in my garage (NOT on the truck though). It's warm and waterproof. We've been in heavy rain and wind and stayed dry. Only taken it down to about 30F but it was fine (we don't sleep with the furnace on).
We can have lunch without popping the top. (I can actually stand with the top down but I'm short.) I don't think I'd use the stove without popping up though. It doesn't take long to pop it up or down. Northstar claims that their new models allow use of the toilet with the top down (when I was looking you couldn't).
x2. We've lunched, napped, used the stove, used the toilet, all with the top down. Having seen a bunch of hard-side campers and trucks not dealing well with crosswinds, winding corners where the whole truck looks like it's going to tip over, etcetera, helped steer us towards a pop-up.
2021 Winnebago Micro Minnie 1708FB
2014 Toyota Tundra Double Cab
300W solar, MPPT controller, LED lights
Xantrex Freedom X Inverter 3000W
2 Fullriver 105AH AGM batteries
Air Lift WirelessAIR and air bags
Hankook Dynapro ATM 10-ply tires
My current camper with the wife and kids is an 11' hardside. WE use it more for traveling than off road camping. It's the only thing I would want for our use. We can stop anywhere and use the bathroom which is great with the kids. We often pull into a rest area for lunch and can use everything without having to put the top up and then back down. Our stuff is secure when we leave a campsite for a hike. The interior is nice and quiet no matter where we stop. Sometimes My wife will fire up the generator and take an air conditioned nap in the parking lot while the boys and I look at some attraction that doesn't interest her. I don't think that would be happening with a pop-up.
DW and I were happy with our popup for ten years. We became less so as we got older.
Our three main reasons for switching to a hardside: (1) Not having to pop or drop the top or switch from travel to dining to sleeping mode. (2) Wanting a bathroom (not a porta-potty). (3) Having a fridge with a freezer. Oh and our hardside is much easier to get into and out of bed – not to mention being able to sit up in bed.
Though our popup had better fuel economy, was much better on bumpy, dirt roads, AND was a dream on the highway, we would not want to go back – though as I mentioned previously, it was a fine choice when we were younger and just graduating from a tent.
I really like the hardside. Any RV dealer can work on it if needed, I'm not hitting my head going in/out the door, and it's always "up" and ready to use or travel.
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD,4X4,NV5600
2014 Adventurer 86FB
![[image]](https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t31.0-8/15675683_1454431261234454_6803860836109233377_o.jpg?oh=a47722aa95295c68bcd4f2ebca98294b&oe=59311E66)
* This post was edited 02/20/17 08:57am by Jack Hart *
Handling was significantly better with the Outfitter. You could tell ont the first few feet driving off the parking lot. And I agree that it has the same amenities as a hardwall, up to and including the trick fold-up bathroom.
We are going back to a Hardwall (Northstar Arrow) for the 2017 season, but there are more reasons at play than just some minor disadvantages the popup had for our specific usage.
The truck was the same all the time, btw.
I disagree with the comments about stealth camping in a pop-up. I've stealth "camped" on several occasions with the top DOWN --- simply sleeping on the dinette. With the top down, my pop-up still has access to the frig, cupboards, and porta potti. The stove, cab over bed and sink are unusable. I can't make coffee in the morning, but, since I camped in a Starbucks parking lot twice, coffee was not an issue.
BTW --- I find the pop-ups plenty warm in sub-freezing weather, and, I like all the screened windows in warmer months.
I think the right camper for you is the one you find that "feels" right and fits your budget.
Whizbang
2002 Winnebago Minnie
http://www.raincityhome.com/RAWH/index.htm
jefe
![[image]](http://s194.photobucket.com/user/jefe4x4/media/DSCN0807_zpsz135gcom.jpg.html)
'01.5 Dodge 2500 4x4, CTD, Qcab, SB, NV5600, 241HD, 4.10's, Dana 70/TruTrac; Dana 80/ TruTrac, Spintec hub conversion, H.D. susp, 315/75R16's on 7.5" and 10" wide steel wheels, Vulcan big line, Warn M15K winch '98 Lance Lite 165s, 8' 6" X-cab, 200w Solar
We fish night tournaments some and the noise during the day when we were trying to sleep was a little bit of a factor in the soft side. Also, the light that I loved from the canvas sides were not a plus during those times.
Lisa, Bobby & Dorothy the Wonder Dog
2013 F250 crew cab/6/5 foot bed w/
Firestone airbags
2006 KZ Jag - 29 ft
Ranger Z518
22 ft Suntracker Pontoon
I think I'm going to go for a HS if I go for a TC, mainly because for a good chunk of the year, the TC will be dropped onto a campsite for a renaissance faire, so the fewer things that can go wrong, the better.
bcbouy wrote:
the biggest difference for me? 360 degree view and you can open every window in a pop up.no need for a/c.you can order them with top cabinets if you want them,but they will partially block 2 of your 10 windows.as for wet fabric.???don't know what your apex was made from but my northstar shrugs off water no problem.
The view is much dependent on the camper(s) involved. With our Phoenix popup, we could see very little when sitting at the dinette. With our Northern Lite HS, the view is much better. As far as not needing A/C, that would depend on where you camp. We used our A/C in the popup far more than the furnace. Wet fabric was never a problem.
the biggest difference for me? 360 degree view and you can open every window in a pop up.no need for a/c.you can order them with top cabinets if you want them,but they will partially block 2 of your 10 windows.as for wet fabric.???don't know what your apex was made from but my northstar shrugs off water no problem.
Quote:
The Apex was dry (well, condensation is a bit of an issue and water started seeping through the sewing holes after a couple of days).
DW waterproofed the stitching of our Phoenix popup shortly after we started using it,and we never had a problem with seepage. Condensation? Yes, that was a problem in cold and/or wet weather.
The Apex was dry (well, condensation is a bit of an issue and water started seeping through the sewing holes after a couple of days).
The one extra to add to your list is if you don't have or want air conditioning the popup has much better ventilation for natural cooling. We have a Maxxair fan and seldom miss AC. I can run the Maxxair for a long time on battery, air conditioning requires AC, either a hookup or a generator. Lots of places I camp have no hookups and I hate listening to a generator.
1. NOISE NOISE NOISE
2. wet fabric to deal with
3. cold as ****!
4. no place to put anything
5. bull-pucky bathrooms
Nope, no advantages worth bragging about.
Buy a cheap hard-side. 100% sure you'll thank me later.
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Needs to be less than, or right around, 2K dry weight...and I know I may have a road trip from CA to find one. Now...Is there any consensus as to which 'larger' PU is the highest-quality/best made/longest lasting? I am looking to buy used and pay less than 15K cash (I still have some mods to do on the truck). Here is what I have so far based on my research of stats and opinion:
- Palomino: Great on price, low on quality. Campers start breaking down quickly, but generally accepted as OK for an 'intro' PU/TC camper. Older Palomino's (up to 2011) better built than current PU's ($9K-$17K New, $4K-$6K Used)
- Jayco: (do they even make these any more?) Cheaper than Northstar, but higher quality than Palomino...harder to find with toilet & shower ($3.5K-$7K Used)
- Northstart: Decent quality, decent price, not quit as nice or well thought out as Outfitters, but much better than Palomino ($21K-$25K New, $8K-$13K Used)
- Alaskan: The classic 'Cadillac' PU camper, great campers, long lasting, high quality/value, hold there value, and hell on the wallet, even when used. Camper heaver than other PU's, due to it not being a 'soft-side'. Also less options than some (no indoor shower, etc.) ($27K-$30K New, $19K-$25K Used)
- Four Wheel: Surprisingly lightweight and compact/low-profile, these PU's are designed for taking off-road while still having most PU options available. Unfortunately, these PU as so compact that storage / cooking / living space is even more limited that other PU's. High-quality construction means these PU's hold there value ($18K-$28K New, hard to find used)
- Outfitter: High quality, and higher price than most. Quality campers that can withstand some real camping ($28K-$38K New, $9K-$14K Used)
- Hallmark: High quality, high priced lightweight campers. Well thought out. ($33K-$40K New, $14K-$17K Used)
Thanks!
* This post was last edited 02/23/17 10:32am by DiverDan80 *
2014 Ram 3500 CrewCab Diesel DRW 4x4 4.10 Aisin, Torklift Fastguns, Upper Stableloads, Timbrens
2017 Northstar 12' STC
640W solar, 400Ah lithium LiFeMnPO4 batteries
I'm thinking Alaskan is the best of both worlds, a hard sided pop up.
Grant
Dodge 3500 CTD.
Northstar 850SC
Constant companions - Scoter and Skye - Black Labs (better than most people)
A Northstar 800 or 850 will probably be easiest to find used.
Moving to a hard side side (140" to the top of the AC) we had to find another solution. Now they are either in a trailer or on top of the the towed Jeep.
1999 F350 Super Cab, DRW, 7.3 4" Exhaust, Ford AIS Intake, RideRites, Gauges, Exhaust Brake, PHP Chip
2003 Lance 1030 295W Solar
Rick
04 GMC 1500 4X4X4
04 Sunlite SB
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/L8vZ4x0l.jpg)
* This post was edited 02/23/17 06:10pm by bcbouy *
Dan
Jack Hart wrote:
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
I've heard it said that all you need to do is turn on the vent fan to get those walls to fold right. Can anyone confirm?
'18 Bigfoot 1500
Torklifts and Fastguns
'17 F350 Powerstroke Supercab SRW LB 4X4
We are looking at getting another popup, for quick trips without the troubles and loss of mileage of the HS.
2000 F-250 7.3 Powerstroke
2018 Arctic Fox 27-5L
stevenal wrote:
I've heard it said that all you need to do is turn on the vent fan to get those walls to fold right. Can anyone confirm?
Jack Hart wrote:
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
I've heard it said that all you need to do is turn on the vent fan to get those walls to fold right. Can anyone confirm?
Closing the door and windows and turning on the vent fan will suck in the side walls, but in most cases a little help is needed to get them to fold properly behind the overhead cabinets. The biggest time is spent folding down the shower walls, clearing things that are stacked too high and closing all the windows.
Tell me about the rear awning, please.
DiverDan80 wrote:
bcbouy - Nice rig! Question - I noticed you have an outdoor kitchen set up...as a new TC camper, is there a reason you don't just use the kitchen on the TC? Thanks!
Dan
we just prefer to do it all outside.been doing it that way since the first tent we got,and we use the bbq almost every dinner.we use the camper kitchen to make morning coffee or heat up some canned lunch.that's about it.plus we don't burn all the camper propane cooking and we always have enuff for the hot water and the furnace,fridge,especially on our longer trips.you can't see it in the pic,but we also have a 10x10 commercial grade easy up shelter that we always put up over the table as well.it's got privacy panels and a bug screen if we need them.we prefer to be outside,rather than hiding in the camper.
bcbouy - Nice rig! Question - I noticed you have an outdoor kitchen set up...as a new TC camper, is there a reason you don't just use the kitchen on the TC? Thanks!
Dan
* This post was last edited 02/25/17 11:24am by bcbouy *
stevenal wrote:
I've heard it said that all you need to do is turn on the vent fan to get those walls to fold right. Can anyone confirm?
i can confirm,it is incredibly simple and quick.close the door and windows,open the fan cover and turn it on full power,lower away,just make sure your mattress. topper is pulled away from the front of the bed.mattress topper you ask? you'll see.
Jack Hart wrote:
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
I've heard it said that all you need to do is turn on the vent fan to get those walls to fold right. Can anyone confirm?
s1214 wrote:
bcbuoy:
Tell me about the rear awning, please.
both are made by fiamma.made in italy i think. it's a 6 foot f35,and the side is an 8 foot f 45.both are roll out hard covers and have the track for add a rooms or privacy panels.they are a little spendy,but i can assure you they are very sturdy.
bcbuoy:
Tell me about the rear awning, please.
* This post was edited 02/25/17 11:21am by bcbouy *
bcbouy wrote:
stevenal wrote:
I've heard it said that all you need to do is turn on the vent fan to get those walls to fold right. Can anyone confirm?
i can confirm,it is incredibly simple and quick.close the door and windows,open the fan cover and turn it on full power,lower away,just make sure your mattress. topper is pulled away from the front of the bed.mattress topper you ask? you'll see.Jack Hart wrote:
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
Preparing to lower and lowering takes longer because items need to be stowed and the sidewalls properly folded in.
I've heard it said that all you need to do is turn on the vent fan to get those walls to fold right. Can anyone confirm?
X3 Only time it was hard was trying to lower the top in 30-40 mph wind.
Then, the wife and I bought property in Northern Michigan accessable via seasonal road and I took one look at our new camping and hunting property and I knew the Lance had to go. For one, it was too high to negotiate a seasonal road with trees and too heavy to drive off road, even though I have a long bed diesel 4x4, I knew I'd get in trouble real fast so I put it up for sale (still have it) and bought a Palomino SS1500.
The older Palomino's got a bad rap and deserved it. You had to manually crank up the roof, you could not open the rear door without raising the roof and the rear door leaked in the rain, like a sieve. The fit and finish was poor and over quality was lacking but, it was cheap.
That is all gone now. The roof is electric push button. Unlatch 4 latches, push a button and the roof extends. Open the one piece solid door (with glass tinted window) and get in. Fit and finish is first class and you can even get air conditioning if you want it (I cannot see it as the sides all around open up to screens with all kinds of ventilation plus it comes with a powered roof fan). 4 cubic foot Dometic fridge with freezer, 3 way, hot water heater, outside shower furnace, comfortable queen sized bunk with a convertible dinette. I got mine with a full wet bath for my wife. I would have preferred a cassette toilet but it wasn't available at the time. Oops, forgot to add, 2 burner cook top and single bowl sink....
You can access everything in the unit (but the upper bunk) without raising the roof and that includes the toilet, fridge and dinette (for those quick rest area sandwich stops) All the interior lights as well as the exterior lights are LED and the grey and black dumps are easily accessable on the drivers side.
Very comfortable, plenty of room for 2 or 3, up and down in literally seconds and roadability is excellent compared to a hardside plus the weight is manageable. 1900 dry, 2350 wet. Don't even know it's back there unless I look in the mirror or glance at the dash (it comes with a wireless rear view camera setup for watching your backside.)
I'm really happy for $13,000.00. and it fits in my garage as well, a huge plus. Campers last almost forever when stored inside when not in use. It's the keeping them outside in the elements that causes issues and deterioration.
Is a perfect fit for my wife and I.
2015 Backpack SS1500
1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB
2017 Northern Lite 10-2 EX CD SE
99 Ram 4x4 Dually Cummins
A whole lot more fuel, a whole lot more boost.
4.10 gears, Gear Vendors overdrive, exhaust brake
Built auto, triple disc, billet shafts.
Kelderman Air Ride, Helwig sway bar.
Page 131 about half way down....
* This post was edited 02/26/17 07:25am by SidecarFlip *
Jack Hart wrote:
both Hallmark and Outfitter have basements which should be a consideration for extreme cold weather camping.
both Hallmark and Outfitter have basements which should be a consideration for extreme cold weather camping.
Are you sure of that? Hallmark certainly did NOT have a basement when I was looking (but that was 10 years ago). From a quick look at their website, the Cuchara and Ute models don't seem to have a basement.
I agree that both are high quality -- but I wanted the Outfitter basement, with bigger tanks.
* This post was edited 02/26/17 09:19am by cewillis *
Cal
bcbouy wrote:
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.
The 1500 has an east west bunk and I prefer it over the north south arrangement because I sleep on a CPAP machine at night and I use the outlet on the front wall below the bunk to power my machine with the machine sitting on the kitchen counter. I converted that outlet to a 110 volt non shore powered outlet running from a Xantrex 1000 watt PSW inverter. Of course that also predicated going from one battery to a pair and building a custom battery box to contain both.
I bet your Northstar was appreciably more money than my Palomino was. I looked at value received versus cost besides build and convenience. I'm retired and on a fixed income.
bcbouy wrote:
close to double the price,and all i've done is add 2 better deep cycles.on the upside,they hold their resale value up here.i sold my old 1989 sunlite pop up for what i paid for it the day i put it on craigslist,after owning it for 3 years,but i did change out the old vinyl.
close to double the price,and all i've done is add 2 better deep cycles.on the upside,they hold their resale value up here.i sold my old 1989 sunlite pop up for what i paid for it the day i put it on craigslist,after owning it for 3 years,but i did change out the old vinyl.
Double the price puts you in hard side territory. If I was going to use my camper many. many days every year and span 4 seasons, I'd be investing that much. I'm not.
I am going to Alaska next summer with my Palomino. Should be a fun trip
I was always happy with the Lance 915 but it really limits you as to where you can go. Just too high and the Cg was too high as well.
I have a friend in Minnesota that has a Sunlite. He's like me. uses his a few times a year for fishing trips.
cewillis wrote:
Are you sure of that? Hallmark certainly did NOT have a basement when I was looking (but that was 10 years ago). From a quick look at their website, the Cuchara and Ute models don't seem to have a basement.
I agree that both are high quality -- but I wanted the Outfitter basement, with bigger tanks.
Jack Hart wrote:
both Hallmark and Outfitter have basements which should be a consideration for extreme cold weather camping.
both Hallmark and Outfitter have basements which should be a consideration for extreme cold weather camping.
Are you sure of that? Hallmark certainly did NOT have a basement when I was looking (but that was 10 years ago). From a quick look at their website, the Cuchara and Ute models don't seem to have a basement.
I agree that both are high quality -- but I wanted the Outfitter basement, with bigger tanks.
You may be right. I read somewhere that Hallmark was introducing a basement model in 2007, but I haven't been able to find any evidence that it actually happened. My outfitter has batteries, tanks, heating ducts, plumbing and wiring in the basement. One advantage to a basement is that it makes the entry door a little taller.
bcbouy wrote:
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.
I believe Northstar now has an electric roof as standard equipment.
bcbouy wrote:
i'll stick to the proven heco system.the reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properlythe reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properly.i'm never level.so maybe it's not as good as i'd thought.
i'll stick to the proven heco system.the reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properlythe reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properly.i'm never level.so maybe it's not as good as i'd thought.
In the past year (last summer and fall) using the RT electric lift system, I never found that to be true and I was, many times, not square or level, in fact a couple times I had to reposition the unit to get the fridge to operate properly. I carry a 12" torpedo level with me and set my camper within 1/2 bubble at all times for the fridge to operate properly. That always entails dropping the jack legs and squaring the camper accordingly.
I have to disagree with your statement... "the reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properly"... from personal experience. That is not true.
I have read of a few instances where the limit switches were not set properly causing a corrked up or crooked down condition but if the limits are set correctly, the roof raises and lowers perfectly, every time.
realter wrote:
I believe Northstar now has an electric roof as standard equipment.
bcbouy wrote:
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.
I believe Northstar now has an electric roof as standard equipment.
I believe you are right. The RT system is gaining popularity.