Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Fifth-Wheels: 5er overhang vs. 2017 truck height

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Topic: 5er overhang vs. 2017 truck height

Posted By: Durb on 02/11/17 06:12pm

I went to a local RV show with a tape and measured the height off the ground of the bed overhang of many leveled trailers. They ranged from 59" to 62" with the norm being around 60".

On the way home I stopped at a couple of dealerships and measured 2017 trucks' tailgate heights. The trucks are new and are 4X4 as none had 2WD models on their lots.

Ram 3500 4X4 SRW - 59"
Ram 3500 4X4 DRW - 57"
Ford F350 4X4 SRW - 60 1/2"
Ford dealership did not have a dually

What gives? Do buyers of new trailers have to have them lifted right off the lot to fit a new truck and allow bed clearance or are they just going to tow really nose high? I suppose the 62" high trailer behind the dually and some truck squat could be made to work. Maybe the overwhelming recommendations of 1 ton SRW trucks should take the extra 2" of bed height into consideration.

Frustrating for me as my 5er overhang is at 54" and would hit the middle of their tailgates.

Posted By: IdaD on 02/11/17 06:22pm

I like the taller trucks but the trailer manufactures need to follow suit. My Ram is as tall stock as a several year old version would have been with a lift.

2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB

Posted By: fj12ryder on 02/11/17 06:42pm

The tall trucks are just for looks, gives them the "macho" look that most guys seem to like. Serves no useful purpose since probably 90% of them never leave the blacktop. It's like the silly cars that are slammed, both serve no purpose other than for looks. Utility falls to a distant second.

Howard and Peggy

"Don't Panic"

Posted By: Roger10378 on 02/11/17 06:49pm

With many of the new 5th wheels already over 13 ft. there is no way to make them fit on the new trucks. It seems like the truck makers need to wake up and make a useful vehicle.

2005 Cardinal 30TS
2007 Chevy 2500HD D/A

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 02/11/17 07:13pm

My 15 RAM Duallywith factory rear air ride sits 55" to top of bed at back corner loaded or not in alt ride mode. Guessing the SRW 3500's are the same.

2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Posted By: mrkoje on 02/11/17 10:51pm

Durb wrote:

What gives? Do buyers of new trailers have to have them lifted right off the lot to fit a new truck and allow bed clearance or are they just going to tow really nose high?

I have a 16 Ram 3500 and a 16 Raptor FW. No problems at all with the hitch height. I suspect this mostly a problem with older FW trailers that were manufactured when the new trucks of the time were closer to the ground.

With that being said a colleague of mine purchased an entry level FW last year that needed to have the axles flipped so that he was not towing nose high. I believe it was a Springdale or somthing.

Best bet would be to make sure the truck/trailer combo you are wanting is compatible before you buy either!

RAPTOR 300MP
RAM 3500 MEGA CTD 4X4

Posted By: FLY 4 FUN on 02/11/17 11:13pm

I had only ever seen the problem with very old 5ers vs very new trucks. I guess its one more thing to consider when choosing a new combo. I shall file this away for if I get a newer TV

Daryll

2012 Dodge Ram 3500 crew SB 4x4 CTD 3.73
2015 Brookstone 315RL
2009 Colorado 29BHS (sold 2015)
05 Jayflight 29BHS (sold 2008)
99 Jayco Eagle 12SO (sold 2005)

Posted By: mtofell1 on 02/11/17 11:26pm

OP you might need to measure again. Yes, bed rails on newer truck are a couple inches higher (not sure why) but the manufacturers of newer fifth wheels have adapted and there shouldn't be a problem. I stressed over this exact thing when buying my 5th.

In the end my 2016 Keystone Hideout fit perfectly with my 2014 Ram 2500 4X4. Keep in mind the truck will squat a couple inches once loaded. I actually ended with about 7.5" of clearance which was way more than I thought I'd have.

The only thing to worry about is if you have an older 5th and are trying to match it with a new truck.

Posted By: ChuckV1 on 02/12/17 12:00am

We have an older Ford F350 dually 4x4 at 60" and both our old Coachmen 5th wheel and our new Kz Durango G384RLT fit perfect with no adjustments ......

Again you can adjust not only your pin box on the trailer but also the 5th wheel in the bed of your truck .....I do agree that there are some new trucks of all brands that there is no way you would hook a 5th wheel to, they are what I call all show and no go [emoticon]

Shoot look at one of those dressed up Hummers with all the racks on them, chrome guards all around the front and rear, you think they will ever see mud LOL, same with some of these new tucks that you need a ladder to get into....We are looking at newer Ford F350 and F450's DWD 4x4's long beds, all were within a inch of what I already have now across the back of my truck ...

Posted By: Dayle1 on 02/12/17 06:53am

OP is just stating what has been a growing problem for years. Back when fiver manufacturers actually listed pin height on their brochures, the typical number was around 46-47 inches. FYI, small units with 13" tires had a number of 42" for 1/2 ton and mini trucks, but that is a different topic.

Anyway, the rise from pin to underside of the trailer is, and has been around 12" as delivered. So, 60" is just a few inches higher than older fivers. Truck heights have increased much more than that over the years. Meanwhile, trailer heights cannot increase and still maintain a 6ft+ bedroom height along with reasonable bridge clearance. Seems truck manufacturers really are not paying attention to the fifth wheel segment of the market.

Larry Day
Texas Baptist Men-Retiree Builders since '01
'13 Silverado 3500HD LT 2wd CCSB SRW, custom RKI bed
'19 Starcraft Telluride 292RLS
Rig Photos

Posted By: Durb on 02/12/17 09:16am

mtofell1 wrote:

I know how to read a tape measure.

Let's see, the overhang on a new Cougar 5er is 59" and the rails of the new Super Duty are 60 1/2". The truck would have to squat 9" to deliver your 7 1/2" of clearance.

I didn't measure any Hideouts but did measure Creekside, Montana, Grand Design, Cougar and others. These were all brand new trailers waiting to be sold. I didn't measure Ram 2500 rail heights.

Posted By: kab449 on 02/12/17 10:43am

Guess you just have to upgrade the trailer when you upgrade your truck. The new Trailers do fit the additional height trucks. My combo has 7" clearance on the tailgate and rides slightly nose high.

2017 Heartland Bighorn 3160Elite/2017 F250 Lariat Ultimate
2018 Coachmen Galleria 24Q Class B Mercedes Van
Keith & Brenda
Marley the Maltese
Central PA

Posted By: 2naEagle on 02/12/17 12:42pm

I do agree the trucks are to high.

I have a 2017 F350 SRW CCSB and a 2017 North Point 315RLTS.
I had the trailer adjusted up to the one adjustment it had.
[image]

I was able to get a pretty level ride.
[image]

And 7.5 to 8 inches of clearance
[image]

Trailer is 13'6" at the highest point.

2020 F350 Limited CCSB SRW
2017 North Point 315RLTS
2021 Jayco Greyhawk 29MV

Posted By: mileshuff on 02/12/17 04:28pm

My 2007 Ram 4x4 is a perfect fit for my 2014 5'er. But the newer trucks have much higher beds that would pose a problem for even my 2014 5'er.

Are the newer trucks actually lifted higher or are the beds higher or are the beds deeper resulting in higher rails?

2014 Winnebago 26FWRKS 5th Wheel
2007.5 Dodge 2500 6.7L Diesel
2004 Dodge Durango Hemi 3.55 (Used to tow TT)

Posted By: fj12ryder on 02/12/17 05:35pm

I've looked a couple of newer trucks and they have 4-5" blocks between the spring stack and the axle. Can't serve any purpose I can think of other than to lift the truck for a "more aggressive stance". Yeah right.

Posted By: Jimf1234 on 02/12/17 08:28pm

Mine sits pretty level 2016 3500 srw, 2013 Sandpiper 365saq [image]

2013 Sandpiper 365 SAQ
2016 Dodge 3500 900ftlbs Limited

Posted By: kohai on 02/13/17 08:41am

Yes, had to add a lift to the trailer and it still wasn't enough. Ugh.

2014 Primetime Crusader 296BHS
2015 GMC 2500HD Denali

Posted By: PhoneDude 8289 on 02/13/17 09:12am

I have a 2014 Ram 2500 TCD and a 2014 Rockwood 5th wheel. Had to raise the trailer 2.5" to ride level. The Ram squats 2" with the pin weight. 6" clearance from top of the tailgate to the bottom of the 5er overhang. Now I have 13' 1" from the level ground to the tallest point on the trailer.

8289WS
Ram 2500 TCD SB 4WD

Posted By: Izzy211 on 02/13/17 06:42pm

I just went from a 2013 F150 CC to a 2016 F350 SWD CC. I measured the ground to top of rail on the 2013 and I had almost 59". On the 2016 I have 60". Both of these measurements were taken on level garage floors. Now the difference I have found is the 2013 box depth is 23" and on the 2016 it is only 20". This makes the pin box sit higher in the 2016 giving me 7" clearance and I am about 1" nose high. These are actual measurements between the two trucks. I made double sure before I bought the 2016.

Posted By: mowin on 02/14/17 05:31am

2014 Ram 3500 SRW and a 2014 Keystone Laredo. Perfect fit, no mods needed. I even have a tonneau cover that sticks a inch or so above the rails. 6" of clearance. If anything I'm slightly lower in the nose.

[image]

Posted By: goducks10 on 02/14/17 07:58am

You should measure the bed at the center of the axle. After you load up the rear drops about 2" on average which puts the center of the bed level with the rear of the bed.

Posted By: goducks10 on 02/14/17 07:58am

goducks10 wrote:

You should measure the bed at the center of the axle. After you load up the rear drops about 2" on average which puts the rear of the bed level with the center of the bed.

Posted By: Veebyes on 02/14/17 08:06am

You would think that truck builders would consult with trailer builders since so many buy the trucks to tow the trailers. NAH...makes way too much sense.

Also, since there is a whole industry finding ways to lift trucks, there must be ways to drop trucks. What are those with older trailers but needing a new truck supposed to do?

Boat: 32' 1996 Albin 32+2, single Cummins 315hp
40+ night per year overnighter

2007 Alpenlite 34RLR
2006 Chevy 3500 LT, CC,LB 6.6L Diesel

Ham Radio: VP9KL, IRLP node 7995

Posted By: oldtown2 on 02/14/17 08:06am

I bought a KZ 23.5 fifth wheel and have a 2013 2500HD. I measured before I bought it and knew there was a problem. The salesman kind of avoided the question. They assured me that it would work. It ended up being 8 inches nose high. I lowered the rear of the truck 2 inches using shackles, adding three inch blocks to the trailer springs and changing the wheels and tires from 14 inch to 15 inch, total cost $1400. It is now level but the pin box would still hit the box if it is turned to much.

Posted By: Greene728 on 02/14/17 08:18am

The SRW Ram 3500 actually sits about 1 to 1.5in lower than the 2500. Coils vs. leaves is my guess as to why. With my 15 Ram SRW my ne GD 303 is almost perfectly level with right at 7in bedrail clearance. The 2011 Crossroads OTOH was almost 3in nose high even after all adjustments such as raised pinbox to highest setting and hitch in lowest. So the newer trailers must be doing something to account for the height. Biggest difference was the GD came from the factory with subframe between axles. Both trailers have 15in wheels.

2011 Crossroads Cruiser 29BHS ( Traded )
2017 Grand Design 303RLS ( Sold )
Currently camperless ( Just taking a break )
2016 Chevy Silverado 2500 4x4 6.0 and 4:10’s
Me and the wife and our two daughters. Life's good!

Posted By: otrfun on 02/14/17 11:03am

For those that may be considering a 5th wheel purchase with a newer truck with a higher bed, be careful which 5th wheel hitch you purchase. Some 5th wheel hitches will adjust as low as 13-17", while others only adjust from ~17-21". This difference in adjustment can be critical in some situations.

Our TV is a '16 Ram 3500 SRW. To get our 2016 5th wheel reasonably level (1.0 - 1.5" nose high), with 6" of bed clearance, we had to adjust our hitch to its lowest, 13" position. This 5th wheel came from the factory with the axles already flipped. We almost spent $1200 on a hitch that would only adjust down to 17"---glad we didn't. This hitch would have pushed our 5th wheel 5 - 6.5" nose high with it adjusted to its lowest position. BTW, our 3500's suspension sags about 2.75 - 3.00" with 2,800 lbs. of pin weight. Suspension travel empty is 5.25".

Just something to think about.

Posted By: fishermanbb on 02/14/17 12:31pm

2naEagle wrote:

I do agree the trucks are to high.

I have a 2017 F350 SRW CCSB and a 2017 North Point 315RLTS.
I had the trailer adjusted up to the one adjustment it had.
[image]

I was able to get a pretty level ride.
[image]

And 7.5 to 8 inches of clearance
[image]

Trailer is 13'6" at the highest point.

I have the same truck on order as well as a 2017 Pinnacle 38 REFS. I was wondering if you could tell me what hitch you are using? Your rig looks good. I think I will need airbags and was planning on a Pullrite Superglide.

Posted By: 2naEagle on 02/14/17 02:13pm

fishermanbb wrote:

I have the B&W RVK3300 and a 50gal aux tank. I also put lower Torklift StableLoad on.
The truck is level. I put it on the scales full of fuel and trailer loaded ready to camp (I have W/D no gen). F-5000, R-7300, T-10640, G-22940. My truck, hitch, and aux tank full is 8500lb. That is a pin of 3800lb. I don't care what the books say in the real world these thins are heavy.

Posted By: fishermanbb on 02/14/17 02:46pm

Thanks! My trailer will be a heavier overall ( about 2000 lbs.) but the pin weight will be a little less as I have no aux tank and no W/D. Listed dry pins are only 50 Lbs. apart. I'm sure I'll have to fuss with it a bit but I think I can get it right. Pullrite offers a mounting kit that will lower the hitch by an inch and a half and Lippert sells a "correct Track kit that will raise the trailer 2 inches. I'm not going to start with any of that but if needed I'm sure I can get it close.

Posted By: Learjet on 02/14/17 02:58pm

I guess we will have to get lowering kits for the new trucks

2017 Ram Big Horn, DRW Long Box, 4x4, Cummins, Aisin, 3.73
2022 Jayco Pinnacle 32RLTS, Onan 5500, Disc Brakes, 17.5" tires
B&W Ram Companion

Posted By: WolfFox on 02/14/17 07:58pm

We have a 2017 Ford F350 DRW King Ranch Ultimate, with a 2017 Grad Design, Solitude 16K 40 1/2' and I have no issue. Everything is level. I did raise my pivot arms one notch today to get a little more clearance. I haven't hooked it up yet to see the difference.

2017 F350, Bronze Fire, King Ranch, DRW, 4x4 Off Road, LED, Adaptive Cruise/Steering, CLSN WRN, Lane Alert, BLIS, Tow Tech, Power Steps, Dual Alt's, 3.55 LS Axle, LINE-X, B&W Companion Hitch

2017 Grand Design Solitude 384GK-R, 16K, 40 ft. 5th Wheel

Posted By: retispcsi on 02/17/17 06:00pm

See truck and trailer in sig. A two inch riser is almost a standard option for DRV. It is easily done when you order your new unit. Assuming you have the Mor Ryde 8000 IS. I had mine done at Mor Ryde after market. I have 9 inch of clearance and the fiver is 13'5" at the highest point. It depends on the rig you choose.
.

2015 Mobile Suites 38 RSSA. 2014 Ram CC DRW 4x4 60 gal RDS Aisin 4:10.
DW, Shadow, Remington and Ron. Living the good life till the next one arrives.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 02/18/17 05:35am

retispcsi wrote:

Interesting, My 15 RAM Dually sits 55" to top of bed at tailgate at that area I have about 7" clearance. It took 3" risers to level my RV. The max height is 13' 5". Your truck rear suspension must compress to 53" ? Based on your numbers you did NOT need the risers. I am wondering where you took your dimensions.

Posted By: retispcsi on 02/20/17 06:27pm

Well Cummins I am glad you know how my truck sits. You even know how much I sag. I never measure sag. My fiver was nose high went to Mor Ryde and had them do the math. three inches would have been to much. My rig sits fairly even and My height is 13'5" again measurements done at Mor Ryde. I run air bags and my B & W is all the way up. I can bend at some pretty good angles to squeeze into the state and federal parks I camp at. I even run with a bak flip fold up tonneau cover that sits about 3'1/2" above the rails with no issues. The fiver rides fairly even. Been doing this for 33 years not the first one I set up.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 02/21/17 08:54am

retispcsi wrote:

I made my comments based on YOUR info provided. I have the same truck and basically the same RV. My RV is 13' 5" per MORryde your is the same height. My bed clearance is 7" yours is 9". My truck sits level and 55" to top of bed at tailgate. Based on that info your truck should be riding lower in the rear by 2" or your RV is 2" nose high.

* This post was edited 02/21/17 07:17pm by an administrator/moderator *

Posted By: High5er on 05/01/17 07:43am

This is my 13 Ram that was 60" to the top of the Tailgate. The Cardinal was 62" when level. (big problem) I ended up taking it to a professional axle shop. They lifted the fiver an additional 5 inches by removing the axles and welding a 5 inch tube frame parallel to the original frame (Very sturdy). I have been driving with this setup for 3 years now and here is what you may need to consider if you are pondering raising your rig.

* It rides it rides like a dream. No issues with high winds or rocking of any sort.
* It's 13.7"ish at the AC so it's extremely important to know your top height at the AC before you lift so you don't end up donating an AC to a bridge. I have an excellent phone app that keeps me informed of all bridge heights in the US. (Gas stations are still a concern so I only use truck stops)
* You will need to remove and lower your leveling jacks. (This is easy as they simply unbolt and adjust can be re-mounted in a lower position. The base/foot of the leveling jacks should be directly in line with the center hub of your wheels.
* I also replaced my three step entry with 4 steps. (Love that too)
* I think It looks a bit funny sitting so high but the setup works quite well.
* MAKE SURE YOU GET A PRO WELDING SHOP THAT CAN INSTALL AXLES ON PERFECTLY STRAIGHT AND ALIGNED. Truck trailer axle alignment shops are best.
* Lastly...Heart medication for traffic lights that look too low);-)

Happy RV'ing all!!!

[image]

Moderator edit to re-size picture to forum limit of 640px maximum width.

* This post was last edited 05/01/17 08:42am by an administrator/moderator *

Posted By: 1jeep on 05/01/17 08:46am

mine sites level, no adjustment needed....BUT the F350DRW is almost 2 inches lower than the F350SRW in 2016. Its 57 inches to top of tailgate, F350 SRW is 59 and I have seen the new 2017 is taller.

2016 Ford F350 crew cab dually 6.7 platinum with heavy tow and 4:30 gears
2015 Carbon 327 with a BMW k1600 and Canam 1k inside

Posted By: Gib3633 on 05/01/17 09:06am

High5er:
The legal height limit is 13 feet six inches. 13feet 5inches sounds better to me. Funny no comments from GM owners. All the complaints come from Ford and Ram owners.
Possibly when my 17 GM gets here I will have a big bad story.

Posted By: High5er on 05/01/17 12:00pm

Gib3633 wrote:

High5er:
The legal height limit is 13 feet six inches. 13feet 5inches sounds better to me.

Thanks Gib, I certainly studied up on height restrictions before the work was completed. I asked the shop for a 4-inch lift. They screwed up and did a 5-inch lift. [emoticon]

I gave them an ear full about the height at the top but nothing really came of it. I'm pretty careful now as stated. I have a height sensor on my truck and that app that I spoke of as well. The only good thing that came out of it was I was able to keep the chrome rails on the truck.

As for GM. I'm sure those tails will be going up as well. Enjoy your new ride [emoticon]

Posted By: laknox on 05/01/17 12:28pm

High5er wrote:

Gib3633 wrote:

High5er:
The legal height limit is 13 feet six inches. 13feet 5inches sounds better to me.

Thanks Gib, I certainly studied up on height restrictions before the work was completed. I asked the shop for a 4-inch lift. They screwed up and did a 5-inch lift. [emoticon]

I'm curious about your height sensor. Can you please post details? TIA...

Lyle

2022 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Denali Crew Cab 4x4 Duramax
B&W OEM Companion & Gooseneck Kit
2017 KZ Durango 1500 D277RLT
1936 John Deere Model A
International Flying Farmers 64 Year Member

Posted By: buc1980 on 05/01/17 12:51pm

Durb wrote:

2017 F350 DRW 4X2 56 in.at the tail gate no load.

2017 Ford F350 DRW,2005 Kountry Star 35ft,16750 lb weight on SAILUN tire,6 points LIPPERD Level-up.New Mor/ryde IS suspension install.Full body paint 2022.RV flex roof 2023

Posted By: Durb on 05/01/17 07:55pm

Durb wrote:

mtofell1 wrote:

I am sympathetic to an OP of a thread that is running concurrently with a newer Jayco and a newer truck. He is exploring costly modifications to make his trailer fit. Apparently manufacturers haven't adapted as well as we hoped they would.

* This post was edited 05/01/17 10:37pm by Durb *

Posted By: High5er on 05/02/17 07:21am

Gib3633 wrote:

I'm curious about your height sensor. Can you please post details? TIA...

Lyle

Lyle, I PM'ed you a message. I don't think I can publicly post products [emoticon]

Posted By: fj12ryder on 05/02/17 07:38am

^^^^^I don't think posting a link to a product you're using is forbidden, unless you have a business interest in promoting it.

Posted By: Gib3633 on 05/02/17 09:25am

High 5er
Isn't it interesting how the repair shop can get paid for not listening and the customer gets to pay.

Posted By: High5er on 05/02/17 09:48am

^^^^^^ So True ^^^ LOL and crying at the same time! [emoticon]

Posted By: laknox on 05/02/17 12:04pm

High5er wrote:

Gib3633 wrote:

I'm curious about your height sensor. Can you please post details? TIA...

Lyle

Lyle, I PM'ed you a message. I don't think I can publicly post products [emoticon]

Thanks, Doug. PM'd you back. Products aren't an issue, only sales of said products, especially if you work for the company. [emoticon]

If you ever have a question about something, the mods are pretty good about answering quickly. Me, I "just post it all and Mod sort it out later". [emoticon]

Lyle

Posted By: PhoneDude 8289 on 05/02/17 08:39pm

I have a 2014 Ram 2500 4 X 4 TCD all stock. I pull a 2014 Rockwood 8289WS 5th wheel. My 08 Tundra towed the 5r level with air bags on the tundra. When I bought the Ram I had to put a 3" lift on the RV. No air bags on the Ram and all is level towing the 5r with the 3" lift on the RV.

Posted By: Woodwalker2010 on 07/24/17 07:46pm

I just ran into this problem 2 weeks ago,when I traded my 2014 F250 Crew cab in for a new 2017 F350 SRW crew cab. With the F250, my 2015 Rockwood 5er towed perfectly level. Now with the new F350, I have to raise the front so much to gain bed clearance, I am taking more wait off the front axle of the 5er than I want to. I'm afraid it's putting to much weight on the rear axle. The 5er has Dexter torsion axles under it, and they don't equalize the weight like a typical dual spring axles with an equalizer (correct me if I'm wrong here). I'm still hashing out what I'm going to do, right now I'm thinking the lift kit from dexter axles to fit these particular axles (D axle, 4000 lb). I will repost later with pics and actual measurements of before and after.

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