Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Truck Campers: Help! New to Truck-camper Camping

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Topic: Help! New to Truck-camper Camping

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/10/17 07:50pm

Hello, new to the forum and to trying to getting my family into truck camper camping (we are done with tents!). I have a 2001 Ford F250 SD 7.3 XLT 4x4 long bed (non-dually) with heavy duty overload springs and stock front swaybar that was basically given to me (everything else is stock). I bought a nice 1978 Lance cab-over-camper with a dry weight of 1,950 lbs. Needless to say, for some reason, this was WAY to much camper for the truck...even when driving like a granny the sway was almost uncontrollable. I ended up giving away the camper.

I don't know if it was the camper (which may have had heavy mods before I bought it, i.e. weighing more than the stated 1,950lbs) or the truck's suspension just couldn't handle it. FYI, the ride is crazy bouncy when not under load, which tells me the suspension is doing its job (?) Other info, the camper I had was fricking huge...it stuck out over the rear bumper 4+ feet and was very tall.

I will mostly have the camper on the truck towing a small zodiac inflatable boat for SCUBA diving, however, I will use the truck unloaded. I also want my wife to be able to drive the rig if necessary...i.e., simple and straightforward driving without white knuckling it. Long story short, I have decided to go the pop-up camper route...however, quite a few of theses campers still have a dry weight of 1,650+ lbs. and I am worried about ending up in the same situation.

Do I:

- Remove the overload spring and replace with air bags (they say it's an either/or situation)
- Keep the overload springs and add full StableLoad kit
- Choose either one and add a rear sway bar

I know there is probably something I have left out, but I hate feeling at the mercy of a non-camper hauling dude telling me what mods I need to do. I see older and same year/model F250's and even F150's hauling massive campers with multiple popouts with no problem...what am I missing?? Thanks!!

Dan

* This post was last edited 02/17/17 07:47pm by DiverDan80 *

Posted By: KD4UPL on 02/10/17 08:06pm

I find it hard to believe that a 1978 model that hung over your bed 4' had a dry weight of 1,950 pounds. Is this a long bed truck? That would make it an 11' or 12' camper. My own 11' camper with no slides weights over 3,000 pounds dry. (Yes, I weighed it empty).
What tires were on the truck? Fairly stock size in a load range E I hope. Is this also a crew cab where you loaded up a bunch of family? That adds considerable weight.
I would keep the overload springs and add the StableLoad kit. You will probably also need airbags and a sway bar.
The real short answer is that you might simply not have enough truck. As an exampel, with my family of 4 in my Chevy crew cab dually and my 11' camper loaded on the back I am over my GVWR by 1,500 pounds. I can't image how far it would be over on a F250.
I've got wider tires, air bags, and HD shocks and the truck has thousands of trouble free miles of hauling the camper.

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/10/17 08:37pm

KD4UPL - Thank you for replying! Yes sir, it's a long bed XLT cab...I knew I was leaving something out. And yes...4 feet off the rear bumper. It was crazy big inside...friends who are RV'ers kept saying it was the size of a small-to-medium size class C inside! It literally was like three rooms...table/dining with bath, kitchen and over cab 'bedroom'. But the info plate on the back said '1,950 lbs' dry. As far as tires, I have Kelly Safari load range 'E' with a max load of 3,415 LBS.

Posted By: KKELLER14K on 02/10/17 08:42pm

Hello and welcome to the family. Well KD4UPL pretty much gets you started in the right direction. I personally would not start with a pop up, it is a tent in the back of your bed. You have a good truck and with the right setup, you shoul be able to carry a smaller hardside no problem. Now right off...it has overloads but does not have a sway bar in the rear? Umm well this is a must have. Do not remove your overload springs as this is why they are there, to help support the load. Tires are a huge factor here also. You need to tell us what those are. Tell me the truck does not have a lift either. There are many ways to custom up a hauler and we are here to help. Jump in and ask away....you came this far so lets talk. Get some payload info for us also...check your door sticker and give us your axle weight ratings and gross weight. These all play a part in the big picture. Don't be discouraged there is something that will work for your truck. Glad you made it!

Posted By: GeoBoy on 02/10/17 08:44pm

Did Lance make a 11'+ model back in 1978?

Posted By: KKELLER14K on 02/10/17 08:54pm

You chimed in while I was typing lol!....I'm going to say that the placard on that TC was way off...you had that truck way overloaded in my opinion.

* This post was edited 02/10/17 09:06pm by KKELLER14K *

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/10/17 08:58pm

I have Kelly Safari tires with a load range 'E' with a max load of 3,415 LBS.

Front GAWR: 4,800 LB
Rear GAWR: 6,084 LB
GVWR: 8,800 LB

PS, how do I add photos to the forum? Thanks!

Dan

Posted By: KKELLER14K on 02/10/17 09:12pm

There is a new way of posting pictures here. I will get you the info. Wait for it..

Ok here is the link...

click on this

I will try and make this simple. You are going to click this link and save it to your toolbar. Now, if you save pictures in your computers picture folder, click the link and when it opens, click the blue "or select" button. Find your pictures folder. When you find a picture, just click on it. It will load a link in the box below with the pic above on the upload page, it tells you what to do.. Copy that link. Come back to the forums and when you want to post the pic, just right click and paste it into the message box. That simple...lol it used to be way harder. Hit enter after you paste it to add dialogue under the pic.

* This post was last edited 02/10/17 10:20pm by KKELLER14K *

Posted By: KKELLER14K on 02/10/17 10:02pm

Ok there you go!

Posted By: jimh406 on 02/10/17 11:10pm

Sounds like a shock or low tire pressure issue. What was the tire pressure and what shocks are you running?

Either way it will feel different with the tc loaded.

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member

Posted By: Reddog1 on 02/11/17 10:01am

I think you have several issues.

1. Not being used to driving and/or riding in a truck/TC can be really scary for some people. Being new to the TC experience, it really helps to adapt by riding and/or driving a setup that has been on the road for a while. Keep in mind we each have our own comfort level.

2. Without actually seeing what your suspension is, in person or maybe photos, our advice may not be what you need. On a given truck manufacturers have several different suspensions. We can give you advice that would require you to take a 2nd mortgage.

3. The most common upgrades are overloads, airbags, anti-sway bar, and tires. I think it is important to understand the effect each of these have. I encourage you to do a search on each.

4. Sway is probably the toughest thing to control. It will be the single most important item to upgrade. The anti-sway bar only helps control sway, and does nothing else. Although tires must cary the load, they play a big roll in sway. The stiffer the sidewall, the less sway. Airbags are primarily used to provide lift. They typically have little effect on sway, with the exception of them being over inflated.

5 Weight of the TC has to be supported. Tires, Springs, overload springs, and airbags are the primary things to consider. In my opinion, the tires are most important. If one of them fail, you have a potential for a serious accident. Modifying the springs require serious thought. Adding leafs will usually make for a rough riding truck when empty. I suggest you leave them stock. There are many configurations of overload springs. Most trucks have a single overload on the bottom of the main springs. About all you can do there is add a lower Stable Load. Depending on the truck, the options on the upper overloads is almost endless. My experience with airbags has been positive. I have a '96 Dodge that has hauled my 4200 pound TC (11.5 ft) for over 13 years with no problem. It has the same load capacities on the door sticker as your truck. It has no upper overload.

In my opinion, your truck can haul pretty much any of the hard side non-slide TCs. I must say, I understand the door sticker to be the manufacturers suggestion with the tires and wheels listed. I no longer am willing to argue this point. I believe most hard side non-slide TCs will weigh in between 3000 and 4000 lbs.

I question that you must remove your overload springs to install airbags. Who told you that? My '96 had an aftermarket overload, and I did have to remove it due to its design.

Wayne

Posted By: Area13 on 02/11/17 10:34am

I have almost the same truck and have a huge camper on. With a lot of mods and $, i'm comfortable with it, but it was a journey.
You say you have settled on a pop up, so those are much lighter than a hard sided slide camper like mine so I will give you my suggestions on suspension upgrades for your truck.

#1 Almost every dry weight you will see is a lie. Loaded up on top of that unknown dry weight is a wet weight (loaded up gear and water). That is what is important to know and your new setup should be weighed, especially the rear axle as soon as you get it.
#2 Fully air your tires up to the max, especially the rear.
#3 Leave your overloads, very important. I suggest upper stable loads to engage them sooner. I rarely have any air in my bags and don't really need them. If I put just a little too much air in my bags it lift my truck off of the overloads and I start to sway, BADLY.
#4 Get a rear sway bar. I like Roadmaster, Hellwig popular also.

Tires are the weakest link. Weigh your rear axle "Wet" and see if it's close to 6830 lbs. If so, I suggest new tires that can handle more weight. I used have 285X75X16 that were rated for 3750 (7500) for my old lighter camper, worked good.

I think with a small pop up and the mods I suggested, you will be fine. Those trucks (maintained properly) are very serviceable..

Here's the pig I haul on my 2002 Super Duty 7.3. Again, lots of mod$...

[image]

2020 Outdoors RV 21RD
2015 F-150 FX4 5.0 3.73

Posted By: Buzzcut1 on 02/11/17 10:43am

Dan

I have a 2003 F350 CC 4x4 long bed that I used to carry my heavy TC on

To make your truck work you need better shocks, a Rear Antisway bar (I went with Roadmaster) and probably a mix of the following Torklift upper and lower Stableloads, Airbags or Timbrebns (or similar). I also upgraded my wheel and tires to 19.5 commercial to give me the load capacity and take out sidewall flex( sway).

[image]

2011 F350 6.7L Diesel 4x4 CrewCab longbed Dually, 2019 Lance 1062, Torqlift Talons, Fast Guns, upper and lower Stable Loads, Super Hitch, 48" Super Truss, Airlift loadlifter 5000 extreme airbags

Posted By: ppine on 02/11/17 10:50am

I put a TC on my one ton Ford diesel and the camper was flush with the tail gate. In the wind it felt like we were at sea. On mountain roads it felt like we were going to miss a few curves. I sold it and went to a TT.

Posted By: KKELLER14K on 02/11/17 03:08pm

Good advice with pics...does it get any better?
[image]

Here is an airbag set up just to wet your whistle...

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/11/17 06:52pm

Thank you for all the help/responses! More info & photos of the truck suspension:

Tires: Kelly Safari load range 'E' with a max load of 3,415 LBS.
Shocks: PB Monroe Reflex shocks (front & rear)

Pics of shocks & overloads (hope this works)

Front

***Link Removed***
[image]

***Link Removed***.***Link Removed***
[image]

***Link Removed***.

Rear

***Link Removed***
[image]

***Link Removed***.***Link Removed***
[image]

***Link Removed***.

* This post was edited 02/11/17 06:58pm by DiverDan80 *

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/11/17 07:06pm

KKELLER14K - I am following your directions however photos that I post keep saying "Link Removed" when I post (?)

Posted By: whizbang on 02/11/17 08:24pm

DiverDan,

Welcome to Truck Camping.

What you have is a math problem. The math is, your truck weighs more than you think it does. Ditto the camper.

You will need to weigh your unloaded truck at a scale. I'm guessing it with come in right around 7,300-7,400 pounds. My 6.8L, Crew cab, long bed, 4X4 was 7000 pounds. The diesel is a heavier engine than my 6.8L gasser. You will also need to then weigh the truck and camper together.

With a GVWR of 8800, your Super Duty does not have a lot of payload capacity. As others have pointed out, you can carry more with appropriate suspension upgrades.

Most of the advice you are getting so far is very good. Once you have your truck and truck/camper weights, the folks on this forum can give you very specific, helpful advice. I have one thing I'd like to add:

With your truck, I would recommend staying with a 8 or 8-1/2 foot camper that weighs no more than 2700 pounds fully loaded with all your tanks, and gear and stuff. By the time you stiffen your springs, shocks, sway bar, etc. to take out the side-to-side sway, you end up with a kidney busting stiff ride that porpoises at highway speeds. It is far and away better to simply carry a smaller camper. You are already at a disadvantage by driving a heavier truck.

I have had four truck/camper combos the past 16 years and have been badly overloaded on two of my four set-ups. Properly loaded is a better way to go.

The Alpenlite on the F350 is the pic below was one of my overloaded set-ups. The truck weighed 7000 pounds empty and had a GVWR of 9900#. My Alpenlite had a 3000 pound "sticker" weight but actually weighed 4,400 fully loaded. The F350 and camper weighed 11,400 and drove like **** despite air bags, heavy duty sway bars, adjustable Rancho 9000 shocks, etc.

[image]

Whizbang
2002 Winnebago Minnie
http://www.raincityhome.com/RAWH/index.htm

Posted By: Wagonqueen Truckster on 02/12/17 07:11am

I have a 1976 11.5 foot camper and boy is it heavy. It says it us 2700 lbs, but it is closer to 3400. I carry it on a Ford 350 dually with no air bags but sway bars. It handles pretty good, but I see my knuckles turning white on occasion. And yes, I ( as the wife) drive it all of the time.

Posted By: KKELLER14K on 02/12/17 12:39pm

Mmmm...well lets go back a bit. Forgive me if this sounds rudimentary. When you open the"RV.NET: Photo Upload & Post" you click on the "or select" blue button right? Then you search for your pictures folder where your pictures are kept. When you click on a picture does it say uploading and the picture appears in the box above and with the link below in the box saying copy the link and insert it in your post? Left click hold it down at the end of the code, drag your mouse to the left until it turns blue then right click..hit copy. Come back to the forum and in quick reply, right click and hit paste...it should work. Keep trying...I seen where it said "Link Removed"...never seen that before...lol, your a first. We all might learn something new from this one.

Posted By: KKELLER14K on 02/12/17 02:03pm

With that said...whizbang pretty much covered the bases. Again, the right way to do this is don't over do it. You want this to be a fun time as you venture out not a nightmare in the woods.

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/13/17 07:38pm

Pics of shocks & overloads (hope this works)

Front
[image]

Rear

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/13/17 07:45pm

Previous Camper on Truck

[image]

Inside (just for fun)
[image]

Truck

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/13/17 07:52pm

Thank you everybody for your help!

I have decided to
-Upgraded my tires for firmer side walls
-Keep stock overloads and add Stable Load kit (full)
-Add Rear Sway bar, and replace stock front sway bar both with Hellwig's (Bigwig)
-Replace stock 'bumpers' with Sumo Springs
-Get a 'light' popup camper (<2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded, true weights)

Just one last question before I go (if anyone is still visiting this forum): Does that mean that MOST of the F250's I see rolling down the road with huge campers with multiple pop outs, towing a boat, have done crazy modifications to their truck to allow for this weight and are nevertheless VERY overloaded/dangerous? Thanks again guys!

Dan

* This post was edited 02/17/17 01:35pm by DiverDan80 *

Posted By: jimh406 on 02/13/17 08:57pm

DiverDan80 wrote:

Does that mean that MOST of the F250's I see rolling down the road with huge campers with multiple pop outs, towing a boat, have done crazy modifications to their truck to allow for this weight and are nevertheless VERY overloaded/dangerous?

There is no way to know. Not all TCs weigh the same even if they look like it.

Posted By: 1971amerigo on 02/14/17 05:21am

Also check rear brake lines.
I have the same truck and had the rear brake lines go the second time the camper was on the truck.

Good luck

Posted By: NRALIFR on 02/14/17 06:45am

Dan, since it appears that your truck has 16" wheels an excellent tire option would be Michelin XPS traction tires. These are an on/off road tire with an all-steel casing, which means the steel belts extend up into the sidewalls. The XPS only comes in two 16" sizes, but if you can use them you won't find a better tire for hauling heavy loads. They are very tough, and will help reduce the wallowing and sway a heavy truck camper will induce on your truck. Make sure your wheels load and pressure ratings are equal to or higher than the tires.

[emoticon]

Posted By: DiverDan80 on 02/15/17 04:17pm

NRALIFR - Thanks! I will do that

Posted By: sonuvabug on 02/16/17 10:51am

Hey DiverDan, you've received some really good input so far.

Looking at your description, we have very similar trucks. Mine came with the factory equipped camper and towing package. Once I loaded our approax. 3200 lbs. TC, I needed to add some mods to reduce the swaying and sagging.

I already had the OEM front and an OEM rear anti-sway bar (1-1/16" thick) and an upper helper spring on the rear spring packs. Here is my thread and final solution which I'm super happy with.

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseac........d/tid/27915755/srt/pa/pging/1/page/4.cfm

Hope my experience helps you. ~ BugJr ~

2007 Adventurer 90fws Truck Camper
2001 FORD F250 SuperCab; 8' box; 4x4, 7.3l diesel, rear Sumo Springs

Posted By: ppine on 02/17/17 01:16pm

You can modify your suspension, but the axles and bearings still won't be happy.

For a camper, a long bed is vastly superior, and dually is even better.

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