We would welcome any insights or opinions you might have about these.
Some questions I have....Fuel mileage on diesel?....enough improvement over the V10 to make up for the difference in fuel price?.....What about diesel noise in the cab while driving?.....Anyone know if there were major construction changes in the Born Free between '04 and '07?.....Is that 5.4 Triton engine going to be a dog in the Phoenix Cruiser?.....Has anyone ever slept on one of those Phoenix Cruiser triple jackknife sofas? How's your back?...If you have knowledge or opinions about anything on these rigs, I would be glad to hear it.
* This post was edited 01/16/17 05:37am by Travelin2 *
John & Gloria
South West, Florida
2009 Leisure Travel Serenity
We love our Phoenix Cruiser and are impressed with its quality. Especially, we love the fact that it is a little more narrow than most Cs and more aerodynamic. Personally, I am not a fan of diesel on a small rig for more reasons than I have time to list or you have time to read.
Paul
PSW
2013 Phoenix Cruiser 2350
2014 Jeep Cherokee behind it
and a 2007 Roadtrek 210P for touring
PSW wrote:
No generator on the Phoenix Cruiser? Will that work for you? Do you have a generator on you Pleasure Way you show in your signature line?
We love our Phoenix Cruiser and are impressed with its quality. Especially, we love the fact that it is a little more narrow than most Cs and more aerodynamic. Personally, I am not a fan of diesel on a small rig for more reasons than I have time to list or you have time to read.
Paul
No generator on the Phoenix Cruiser? Will that work for you? Do you have a generator on you Pleasure Way you show in your signature line?
We love our Phoenix Cruiser and are impressed with its quality. Especially, we love the fact that it is a little more narrow than most Cs and more aerodynamic. Personally, I am not a fan of diesel on a small rig for more reasons than I have time to list or you have time to read.
Paul
We sold our Pleasure Way. It did have a generator and we used it some. It's definitely needed. The Phoenix cruisers all come generator ready from the factory according to the literature so I can add that. Hopefully they mean that the fuel line is there and capped and not just an electrical connection.
4 whopping cylinders on Toyota RV's. Talk about great getting good MPG. Also I have a very light foot on the pedal. I followed some MPG advice on Livingpress.com and I now get 22 MPG! Not bad for a home on wheels.
DownTheAvenue wrote:
That 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine is a deal breaker for me and should be for you!
That 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine is a deal breaker for me and should be for you!
Hubby says these motors are so crammed into the nose that they're HARD to work on..... a lot of mechanics won't work on them (or you'll pay through the nose for labor)
Deb and Ed M wrote:
Hubby says these motors are so crammed into the nose that they're HARD to work on..... a lot of mechanics won't work on them (or you'll pay through the nose for labor)
DownTheAvenue wrote:
That 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine is a deal breaker for me and should be for you!
That 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine is a deal breaker for me and should be for you!
Hubby says these motors are so crammed into the nose that they're HARD to work on..... a lot of mechanics won't work on them (or you'll pay through the nose for labor)
The 6.0 was not Ford's best diesel engine, from everything I've read. It had quite a few problems (some of which were at least partly corrected during the production run).
Any engine in an E series chassis is crammed into the nose--or, more accurately, into the middle of the dashboard. The V10 is not very easy to work on in that application either, beyond the basics like changing the oil. Fortunately, it doesn't need a lot of intricate care and feeding.
bumpy
I received some sage advice from a member here on RV Net and have marked the Phoenix Cruiser off the list also. I really like the Phoenix Cruisers but this model was discontinued and probably for good reason.
That leaves the 2007 Born Free 24RB with a V10. It is about an hour drive to get there and something came up here at home so I didn't get there today. You know how life is. Good ol' "Bumpy" has some misgivings about them and I have to admit they seem just a bit different. Having a bed that requires making up and taking down is a big minus for us really.
Three things carry a lot of weight in our decision. First we would like to stay 25 ft or less. Have a dedicated bed and a booth dinette.
The search continues.
Having a gas V10 engine with gas generator and 55 gallons of gas is much better anyways. Save your propane for the fridge, furnace, hot water heater, and stove.
2007 Phoenix Cruiser model 2350, with 2006 Jeep Liberty in-tow
1. It was de-tuned in the E-Series, so you don't get the high performance the pickup is known for
2. It takes the Front Axle right to rated capacity, limiting weight carrying and weight distribution opportunities.
Now for what I really wanted to say in this reply, and I'll SHOUT:
YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED THE FEATURES YOU WANT, LIKE THAT BED. DON'T COMPROMISE AND GET SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T MEET YOUR NEED JUST BECAUSE IT'S CLOSE BY OR AVAILABLE NOW.
* This post was edited 01/17/17 09:53am by j-d *
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB
bumpy
You might also want to consider the 24V 2005 version of the Itasca we have on the optional E450 V10 chassis - it's been a great Class C for us since we bought it new. Note such things as tank sizes, interior wall construction, interior/exterior storage, and roof construction. The last year that Winnebago offered this same model with the same set of features was 2007. Don't look at this model earlier than 2005 or you'll not get Ford's great 5-speed (6 ratios internally) computer controlled transmission in it:
https://winnebagoind.com/resources/brochure/2005/05-Spirit-bro.pdf
2005 E450 Itasca 24V Class C
Currently RV-less but not done yet.
Travelin2 wrote:
Three things carry a lot of weight in our decision. First we would like to stay 25 ft or less. Have a dedicated bed and a booth dinette. The search continues.
You sound like us 10 years ago. To avoid a very long winded list of reasons, I will just say that our PC-2350 fit the bill quite well. Click on my signature below to see many pictures of it. It was important to us to be under 25 feet long and 10 foot tall to fit in our garage, sleep together on a main floor bed for two, a good dinette, and all the "practical use" amenities of the big class Cs. Not novelty features like a fridge that won't hold much of anything, a sink you can't do dishes in, run out of water too quickly, take a shower with a toilet in between your legs, things like that.Three things carry a lot of weight in our decision. First we would like to stay 25 ft or less. Have a dedicated bed and a booth dinette. The search continues.
May I suggest considering shopping the internet more intensely with the notion of flying out to buy what you want at the right price.
j-d wrote:
The Diesel added a lot to the original cost. It may actually deduct from the resale, since 6.0 was problematic. But, in addition to whatever the mechanics might be, and maybe the noise, two factors we haven't discussed, remain:
1. It was de-tuned in the E-Series, so you don't get the high performance the pickup is known for
2. It takes the Front Axle right to rated capacity, limiting weight carrying and weight distribution opportunities.
Now for what I really wanted to say in this reply, and I'll SHOUT:
YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED THE FEATURES YOU WANT, LIKE THAT BED. DON'T COMPROMISE AND GET SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T MEET YOUR NEED JUST BECAUSE IT'S CLOSE BY OR AVAILABLE NOW.
The Diesel added a lot to the original cost. It may actually deduct from the resale, since 6.0 was problematic. But, in addition to whatever the mechanics might be, and maybe the noise, two factors we haven't discussed, remain:
1. It was de-tuned in the E-Series, so you don't get the high performance the pickup is known for
2. It takes the Front Axle right to rated capacity, limiting weight carrying and weight distribution opportunities.
Now for what I really wanted to say in this reply, and I'll SHOUT:
YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED THE FEATURES YOU WANT, LIKE THAT BED. DON'T COMPROMISE AND GET SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T MEET YOUR NEED JUST BECAUSE IT'S CLOSE BY OR AVAILABLE NOW.
Thanks for "shouting" that out to us. It's odd that you say that because last night my wife and I found some good deals on rigs on the internet that did not have those main features and we found ourselves saying "well we could live with that". Then this morning I see your post. Thanks for bringing us back into focus.
ron.dittmer wrote:
May I suggest considering shopping the internet more intensely with the notion of flying out to buy what you want at the right price.
Travelin2 wrote:
Three things carry a lot of weight in our decision. First we would like to stay 25 ft or less. Have a dedicated bed and a booth dinette. The search continues.
You sound like us 10 years ago. To avoid a very long winded list of reasons, I will just say that our PC-2350 fit the bill quite well. Click on my signature below to see many pictures of it. It was important to us to be under 25 feet long and 10 foot tall to fit in our garage, sleep together on a main floor bed for two, a good dinette, and all the "practical use" amenities of the big class Cs. Not novelty features like a fridge that won't hold much of anything, a sink you can't do dishes in, run out of water too quickly, take a shower with a toilet in between your legs, things like that.Three things carry a lot of weight in our decision. First we would like to stay 25 ft or less. Have a dedicated bed and a booth dinette. The search continues.
May I suggest considering shopping the internet more intensely with the notion of flying out to buy what you want at the right price.
Ron, I looked through your picture album and you are right, that is just what we are looking for. It's a beautiful rig. Quite crafty the way you mounted the coffee maker out of the way. I am going to take your advice and widen our search area.
I widened an internet search to 300 miles and found a very nice rig similar to your layout. It is a Winnebago Aspect 26A with full body paint and Alcoa aluminum wheels. Beautiful rig. It's a 2007 for $35K. What's you thoughts on that model and the value? It's a foot longer than we intended but we have a 50ft boat shed so not a problem at home. Would the extra 3ft have seriously affected your use while on the road?
Here's the 2007 Aspect brochure: https://winnebagoind.com/resources/brochure/2007/07-Aspect-bro.pdf
Note that it's overhead cab area is not the usual Class C motorhome full size bed/storage area, but the Class B+ motorhome style of entertainment overhead cab area.
That type of overhead cab area makes for a more streamlined look and may provide a slightly improved gas mileage. However, I actually sleep up in our Winnebago Itasca's larger Class C style of overhead cab area in it's full size queen bed. Since this Class C style of overhead cab area runs the full width of the motorhome ... it's about a foot wider (6 inches at the foot and 6 inches at the head) than what is needed for the length of the queen bed. I store two foldup outside chairs, a foldup outside table, and many other items in these foot/head areas while at the same time sleeping in the queen bed up there. The queen bed portion of the area up there is in two lengthwise halves so that you just push one half up unto the other half when traveling so as to provide headroom above the driver and passenger. This allows the driver and passenger to be able to stand up when getting out-of/into the front cab seats withouut having to bend over. So what you get is another bed and more storage - but with entertainment equipment being mounted and stored some other place in the coach.
Note also that the 2007 Aspect 26A has slides. Some folks do not want slides in their ClassB+/C motorhomes for several reasons. But in the case of the Aspect 26A slide motorhome you get a narrower motorhome (95 inches) when traveling, but of course additional room when camped with the slides out. I wouldn't recommend buying any slide motorhome where: A) You couldn't use crucial conveniences in the coach with the slides in and, B) You couldn't tilt back the driver's seat and passenger's seat with the slides in.
* This post was edited 01/19/17 02:00pm by pnichols *
As far as over-all length increase to 26'-7", I don't see it being a big deal. The issue is parking the rig at home of which you say you can accommodate. The wheel base to rear over-hang ratio might be an issue with handling like we had with our PC until I had some suspension upgrades done to make it all better.
BTW, the coffee maker in the cabinet door was a factory feature of the era. It had its challenge making coffee and getting the coffee out of it. Like most PC owners who had it, we eventually removed it to utilize the space inside that cabinet better, and going with a smaller sized conventional coffee maker to place on the counter.
* This post was edited 01/19/17 04:46pm by ron.dittmer *
Best advice, Look for the floor plan that you like first, then the others to sway your decision.
2012 Itasca Cambria 28T
John
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on a Ford 550
2018 Rubicon
Boo Boo a Mi Kie
42' 36' & 34 Foretravels sold
2007 Born free 24 sold
2001 Wrangler sold
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland sold
Susie Dolly, Lolly &Doodle (CKC) now in our hearts and thoughts
Here are a few shortcomings. Look for clearcoat peeling, especially along the radius where the sides meet the roof and the front cap. Also the bathroom is very tight for anyone who is not tiny. We decided to overlook those issues to get everything else we wanted. No regrets yet after 2 years. Ours has 44 K miles on it.
I am NOT a mechanic although I do play one in my garage!
They're kind of hard to find, but they are out there.
Here's some construction and design aspects of the 24V Itasca Class C and 24V Outlook Class C that came stock ... or were available as options ... on them:
- No slides
- Permanent queen bed in the back, plus queen overhead cab bed, plus a dinette that makes into a full bed
- Single piece fiberglass roof that is crowned - not flat - with rolled over edges the entire length along each side
- Storage tanks often larger than other Class C RV's of this length ... 29 gal GW, 39 gal BW, 43 gal FW, 18 gal propane
- The GW and BW tank gauges are external ones that measure through the tank walls ... so are less likely to foul from gunk ... hence more accurate day-in/day-out
- Can be found on either the Ford E350 chassis or optional (and rare) Ford E450 chassis ... 2005 and later having the 5-speed computer controlled transmission behind the V10
- Seven(7) lockable steel walled and carpet lined external storage cabinets, with two of them being long ones transverse across the chassis for shovels, fishing poles, beach umbrellas, etc.
- High ground clearance everywhere, with no plumbing or the built-in Onan generator hanging lower than the chassis walls ... all external plumbing is way up high
- All electricall hook-up and sewage plumbing is in one lockable outside storage cabinet ... no bumper box storage of the drain line
- A spare tire stored in the rear up in between the chassis frame rails just like in a pickup triuck ... so plenty of room for a larger than stock tire if you want to switch tire size
- A full height shower with an accordian door to separate it from the commode
- The bathroom sink drains into the BW tank - not the GW tank - so as to better balance the filling of these tanks
- Plenty of 120 V AC and 12 V DC receptacles in the coach
- Winnebago's built-in Onan generator installation design provides for fairly quiet operation inside and out ... and can be tolerated running for hours when inside the coach
- Microwave, oven, three burner cooktop with vent fan, and foldout counter extension in the galley
- Six(6) cubic foot refrigerator
- Digital controller for the furnace and the air conditioner
- Full size dinette so four(4) people can comfortably eat, talk, or play board games there
- Each dinette seat has it's full underneath volume for storage ... no furnace or water heater under the seats
- The rear bed and cabover bed have privacy curtains
- The cab has a curtain that can be drawn to separate it from the coach for better maintenance of coach temperature in cold or hot weather
- The weather band/CD cab radio has a switch on the dash for it to be powered from either the engine battery or coach batteries
- The coach battery storage area is right under the step so as to not take up storage cabinet space and so that the batteries can be checked from inside the coach
- The coach battery storage area is large enough for up to two(2) Group 31 deep cycle batteries or one(1) 8D deep cycle battery
- In addition to speakers in the cab, the weather ban/CD cab radio has coach speakers above the dinette and above the cooktop in the galley
- The flooring in the coach is a combination of vinyl and carpeting ... for both easy cleaning in the galley and comfort/ambiance in the dinnette and lounge chair feet areas
- The lounge chair swivels to face the galley or dinette or forward ... and slides forward/back to permit using a dinette seat as a foot stool
- The forward facing dinette seat and lounge chair have seat belts ... for a total of five(5) belted seats for travel in the motorhome
- Some of them may have the important options of heated tanks, a powered coach step, and pre-wiring for dual batteries ... in addition to other options
- The rear coach walls start angling immediately from the rear tires back up to the rear coach wall/rear bumper ... providing for a good rear approach angle for going up sloped driveways
* This post was last edited 01/28/17 06:55pm by pnichols *
* This post was last edited 01/29/17 01:33pm by Travelin2 *
Are you really, really sure that the 26A isn't a bit too long? (just kidding) Good luck in your hunting for a rig ... and make sure that 26A is on the E450 chassis ... it should be, knowing Winnebago.
P.S. Here's our E450 24V out in the Utah desert camping in a small spot we had to slowly and carefully jockey into to so as to get the view just right from our dinette
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
:![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/1pvRO8yl.jpg)
https://www.rvtrader.com/dealers/Optimum........ing/2006-Winnebago-Outlook-24V-119723050
http://www.mwrvcenter.com/rv/2005-Itasca-Spirit-24V-0185
This is actually rather serendipitous since it is located only about 2 miles from the Aspect we are going to see. I am liking the storage, roof and overall simplicity for easy upkeep.
* This post was edited 01/29/17 06:34pm by Travelin2 *
I notice that Winnebago no longer has a Class C they call an "Itasca", but they do have a Spirit Class C line (... or something like that).
I never quite understood where Winnie Minnie fit in (... or something like that).
![[emoticon]](http://www.coastresorts.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
Keep us informed on what you decide!
Travelin2 wrote:
ol'yeller, I'm glad to hear it's a good rig for you. The owner of the one we are going to look at Monday(it's a 2007) told me that during those years the manufacturer put a clear coating of some kind of armoring around the lower portion of the rig to protect from rock chips. I guess it only comes up 18 inches or so. He said it was found to be a less than desirable product as it discolors with age. According to him it can be removed without damaging the paint. Did/does yours have this? Have you heard of the stuff?
ol'yeller, I'm glad to hear it's a good rig for you. The owner of the one we are going to look at Monday(it's a 2007) told me that during those years the manufacturer put a clear coating of some kind of armoring around the lower portion of the rig to protect from rock chips. I guess it only comes up 18 inches or so. He said it was found to be a less than desirable product as it discolors with age. According to him it can be removed without damaging the paint. Did/does yours have this? Have you heard of the stuff?
No, my issue is along the roof line where the roof meets the side panels as well as the front cap. My RV came from AZ sand it is the dark maroon full body paint. I assume mine was due to the hot climate and dark color. I know the years prior had more of an issue of clear coat peeling due to poor paint application even on the light colored ones.
The Winnebago Aspect 26A was a very nice rig, 52,000 miles, very well kept, tires dated in mid 2015. The dark maroon portion of the paint showed lots of clear coat peeling. Same as ol'yeller. Also clear coat peeling above the windshield on the white. I would guess a thousand dollars at the paint shop to spruce it up.
The biggey was upon driving it there was a very noticable drivetrain vibration. Driveline problem I would guess. Prominent at 30 to 45 mph....started to lessen at 55 to 60. Maybe not a huge deal but since it wasn't my problem I left it just like that...not my problem. The search continues. I did learn one thing today. I like the Winnie 24v. Just need to find a garage queen.
We like the 24V basically because it seems to pack everything needed in a small size, with the only thing missing being unnecessay (for us) room that would have to be kept cleaned, heated, and cooled. Two lounge chairs would be nice, but it takes a swiveling cab passenger seat to get that. Adapters are available to allow the Ford cab passenger seat to spin around, but the Winnebago 24V design is of a "basement" type - that's where the tall outside storage cabinets come from. But ... a basement design means that the coach floor is enough higher than the cab floor such that a spin-around passenger seat would put the user's legs almost straight out in front of them. However, if I were to list all of the stuff we are able to pack along in those outside storage cabinets it might look like we had a much larger rig.
Keep on looking ... you'll hit pay dirt if you're patient. We looked for a used one for a year before we unexpectedly saw a new 24V at an RV show priced way lower than we thought a new one would be. I think the dealer had it priced low because he couldn't get rid of it due to it not having slides ... which was the hot thing back then. However we did not want slides.
* This post was edited 01/31/17 01:08pm by pnichols *
It is funny you mention vibration as when we were looking we saw a Cambria that also had a driveline vibration and the rig only had around 12,000 miles. It also had other issues that a low mileage rig shouldn't have so we passed on that one. Our rig now drives very well so don't let 1 bad rig sour you on the whole line. The clearcoat issue is pretty bad and is especially prevalent in the hotter climates and the darker colors. It is a shame on Winnebago to have allowed this to happen without making it right.
Has anyone dealt with this before? When you see it do you run and not look back? How is this repaired? Is it not doable? I like the rig if I can fix this reasonably. Another question....these 2 small spot show now is the coach destined to continue delaminating further?
Here's some pictures...Look just beyond the window.
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/bJ4PLssb.jpg)
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/zzU2hIOb.jpg)
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/scgarMnb.jpg)