I knew the unit I bought would not have as many features as higher-end Keystone coaches. I did, however, assume that the basic design and construction quality would be consistent throughout the range of Keystone's TT coaches. Without boring anyone with the specific details, I will say that I am already very disappointed in the overall quality of the product. Multiple warranty repairs have already been needed. I don't know if it's just my coach or the Keystone line as a whole, but I'm already considering getting rid of it and trying another manufacturer's product.
Right now, I'm seriously considering the following 3 coaches:1) Jayco's White Hawk, 2) Grand Design's Imagine and 3) Forest River's Surveyor. Feedback on any of these vs. Keystone's Hideout would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
* This post was edited 12/26/16 10:19am by kwise_6 *
Don't rule out Northwood products...Arctic Fox, Nash, Snow River...
Northwood ......LINK
Good luck with your search.
"If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane."
Arctic Fox 25Y
GMC Duramax
Blue Ox SwayPro
Forest River TTs seem to be hit and miss. I'd check the FR forum for specific info. on various brands/models. Don't know much about Grand Design but *think* they have a good reputation.
One important thing to look at first is frames. Check axle ratings (tag on axle) and tire load capacity rating vs. GVWR. Some (like Keystone) load these right up to their ratings. Look for at least 10 percent reserve capacity on tires. If a manufacturer offers the option, get higher load range tires. Look at CCC/NCC vs the GVWR. More CCC is better and can indicate strength of frame/suspension. Expect to add 500-1000 lbs of camping "stuff" including factory options plus upgrades/mods you do. Some TTs can have CCC as high as around 3K lbs and some under 1K lbs.
I'd also see what you can find out about factory support on issues and also how good/bad your dealer will be. Some are good, some are bad.
Since you're on the west coast, def. take a look at Outdoors RV (Northwood) TTs. They are better built than the majority of others and have many desirable features such as a heavy duty, off-road certified, in-house built frame c/w shocks and better insulation with 2" thick walls. Have a pretty good reputation. They're not part of a big conglomerate either.
2015 Jeep Willys Wrangler
2014 Fleetwood Bounder 33C
States camped: all but Hawaii
more than 1700 days on the road
Build a life you don't need a vacation from.
2016 Silverado 3500HD DRW D/A 4x4
2018 Keystone Cougar 26RBS
2006 Weekend Warrior FK1900
2019 Grand Design Reflection 230RL
2020 Ford F250 Lariat CC SB 4X4 6.7 B&W Companion RVK3300
grampscamper wrote:
We've owned Forest River, Keystone and now Grand Design. In my opinion Grand Design is the best of the three. It's been the most trouble free. Their customer service is outstanding. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another.
We've owned Forest River, Keystone and now Grand Design. In my opinion Grand Design is the best of the three. It's been the most trouble free. Their customer service is outstanding. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another.
Is there much price difference in the 3 ?
We made the mistake of buying by a floor plan and not the quality.
The quality and workmanship is terrible and their warrantee will keep you from using your trailer it takes so long to get anything done.
It is not the dealers fault, but it is Forest Rivers. the dealer has to submit pictures to Forest River, and then they look for the cheapest way out and sit on the claim for ages.
Do yourself a big favor and take Forest River off our list.
I have been waiting for over a month for a simple rerouting of some water pipes that have been leaking because they were installed between the frame and the structure.
Jack L
Jack & Nanci
Check out the Grand Design owners forum. GD seems to do more for the customer than other brands. And yes, GD was recently bought out by Winebago.
2017 Grand Design Imagine 2650RK
2019 F250 XLT Supercab
Just DW & me......
Lance Travel Trailers
Grand Design also make a pretty darn good unit. I just prefer the way mine is built. Look at the Lance website and they should have a factory tour on there somewhere.
2014 F-250
2014 Minnie Winnie 2351DKS (Traded In-Burnout-Use A Surge Protector!)
2015 Arctic Fox 22G (Great Trailer But Heavy - Traded In)
2018 Lance 1685 w/ Solar & 4 Seasons Package
1999 Beneteau 461 Oceanis Yacht
En Norski i en Fransk båt - Dette må jeg se!
theoldwizard1 wrote:
Is there much price difference in the 3 ?
grampscamper wrote:
We've owned Forest River, Keystone and now Grand Design. In my opinion Grand Design is the best of the three. It's been the most trouble free. Their customer service is outstanding. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another.
We've owned Forest River, Keystone and now Grand Design. In my opinion Grand Design is the best of the three. It's been the most trouble free. Their customer service is outstanding. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another.
Is there much price difference in the 3 ?
From what I've been able to determine, Grand Design is about 15% to 20% more than Forest River and Jayco.
2020 Jayco Eagle 355 MBQS
2011 Ford F-350
I've had a FR product (Rockwood) and a KZ. Both were low-end units and were ok, but nothing great.
Mike G.
Liberty is meaningless where the right to utter one's thoughts and opinions has ceased to exist. That, of all rights, is the dread of tyrants. --Frederick Douglass
photo: Yosemite Valley view from Taft Point
theoldwizard1 wrote:
Is there much price difference in the 3 ?
grampscamper wrote:
We've owned Forest River, Keystone and now Grand Design. In my opinion Grand Design is the best of the three. It's been the most trouble free. Their customer service is outstanding. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another.
We've owned Forest River, Keystone and now Grand Design. In my opinion Grand Design is the best of the three. It's been the most trouble free. Their customer service is outstanding. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase another.
Is there much price difference in the 3 ?
I think a lot depends on the dealer. We got a great deal on a Grand Design. In my opinion the Grand Design offers the best value. At least for the deal we were able to negotiate.
We thought the Keystone was comparable but didn't offer a floorplan that we liked as much. We also looked at Jayco. They had a very similar layout but were a little more expensive. We loved the layout of the Grand Design the best. We thought the fit & finish was as good if not better than anything in it's price range.
* This post was edited 12/27/16 04:56am by grampscamper *
2020 F250 STX CC SB 7.3L 10spd 3.55 4x4
2010 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
2017 Jayco 28RLS TT 32.5'
One year warranty isn't much. If I bought a new camper today the warranty would be half gone the first time I'd use it.
2018 Ram 3500 DRW CCLB Aisin 4.10 4x4
2018 Jayco Talon 413T
B&W Companion
If you want something different then you need to buy from a different type MFG.
Lance, Airstream, Northwoods and Outdoors RV are the only ones that are stepping outside the box. They still use many of the same components but they assemble than differently. If you want better quality then you need to pay a little more for it.
This is important if we are talking about an expensive repair . Many times, dealers have to dip into their own pocket to resolve an issue for their good customers.
Remember to be diplomatic when talking to your dealer, it might pay off for you if the mfg. offers resistance.
Double check the specs on the White Hawk series if you choose Jayco.
Many people prefer the Jay Flight series due to axle and tire ratings.
Go to the Jayco Owners Forum for best results between the WH and JF.
So far, im very happy with my Jay Flight. My dealer and Jayco have taken care of a few minor things 100%.
We have had mixed results with our latest TT so far, it is a Coachmen (Forest River), bought new 2/2016.
Some of the things have been awesome, for example:
We have camped in 105F days in West Texas with no shade, and still held 69F inside. (this is a major upgrade over our older RVision MaxLite)
It seems insulated well, three slides and no obvious drafts. The AC actually cycles in anything other than mid afternoon without shade.
It pulls very well mannered, the axles are spaced apart substantually more than our previous unit, I haven't dealt with sway much with this unit, only time will tell how this spacing will affect the tires, but I can feel the turning resistance when making sharper turns, more tire marks on clean concrete also.
There are a lot of "niceitys" that are new to us, but are common on most new rigs. The pull out sink faucets, large ergonomic bathroom, storage everywhere, all LED lighting (including most compartments), electric fireplace, power jacks, just to name a few.
Some other things have been somewhat problematic:
Our outdoor kitchen, the luggage door leaked, the wood inside was MDF, this was a bad combination as all of the wood swole and warped. The warranty fixed the leak but did not replace the wood without leaving my unit at the dealer for several more weeks for a company representitive to inspect it (in the middle of summer, I think not). Usually, I would be flat out furious, but my brother is a carpenter, so we re-built the entire drink station out of solid oak, problem solved (upgraded actually).
Our bedroom slide ceased to function while packing up to go home one trip. After troubleshooting the fuses and breaker on the slide motor, I noticed that the signal wire to the wall switch had pulled out from the slide control box (2 prong plug). I plugged it it and everything worked. I only bring this up because I could see where less troubleshooting savy people may have needed a service call ($$$). I will also point out that it was all due to the wires being bundled too tight (poor craftsmenship). I loosened the bundle and gave it more slack, it hasn't happened again.
I would not buy a unit with a regrigerator on a slide ever again. The whole power venting out the side, really, really annoys me. Not only is it noisy, but it is a battery drain as well. I ended up installing 2 batteries and a perko switch just because of this. Where I hunt, we boondock it, and generally only run a generator when needed (A/C or TV).
There have been quite a few things I had to go around and fix. The splash guards on the shower door kept falling off, I cleaned and reinstalled with clear silicone (problem solved). I also had to apply silicone to the tail lights and the power jack switch, as they were both leaking. There have been several screws that either needed tightening or replaced with longer screws (sliding door floor guides and various outlets). My point is, lots of little things, here and there.
I do feel though, that I have most of the issues ironed out now (without manufacturers help). I am not saying that Coachmen or Forest River are total junk, but just that there is some craftsmenship shortsightedness. I think their floorplans and design are wonderful. If I could do it all again, I would prefer another Jayco, but we never found a floorplan that we loved on the new units.
I rest my case.
Joe
As already mentioned, Outdoors RV or Northwood products are worth a look.
2010 Jayco 28BHS
2004 Chevy 1500 Ext.Cab 5.3L, 3.73, Bilsteins, Timbren SES
Reese Dual Cam
Prodigy P3
JPG77373 wrote:
Hello everyone, I am new on the forum, but in no way new to RV life.
We have had mixed results with our latest TT so far, it is a Coachmen (Forest River), bought new 2/2016.
Some of the things have been awesome, for example:
We have camped in 105F days in West Texas with no shade, and still held 69F inside. (this is a major upgrade over our older RVision MaxLite)
It seems insulated well, three slides and no obvious drafts. The AC actually cycles in anything other than mid afternoon without shade.
It pulls very well mannered, the axles are spaced apart substantually more than our previous unit, I haven't dealt with sway much with this unit, only time will tell how this spacing will affect the tires, but I can feel the turning resistance when making sharper turns, more tire marks on clean concrete also.
There are a lot of "niceitys" that are new to us, but are common on most new rigs. The pull out sink faucets, large ergonomic bathroom, storage everywhere, all LED lighting (including most compartments), electric fireplace, power jacks, just to name a few.
Some other things have been somewhat problematic:
Our outdoor kitchen, the luggage door leaked, the wood inside was MDF, this was a bad combination as all of the wood swole and warped. The warranty fixed the leak but did not replace the wood without leaving my unit at the dealer for several more weeks for a company representitive to inspect it (in the middle of summer, I think not). Usually, I would be flat out furious, but my brother is a carpenter, so we re-built the entire drink station out of solid oak, problem solved (upgraded actually).
Our bedroom slide ceased to function while packing up to go home one trip. After troubleshooting the fuses and breaker on the slide motor, I noticed that the signal wire to the wall switch had pulled out from the slide control box (2 prong plug). I plugged it it and everything worked. I only bring this up because I could see where less troubleshooting savy people may have needed a service call ($$$). I will also point out that it was all due to the wires being bundled too tight (poor craftsmenship). I loosened the bundle and gave it more slack, it hasn't happened again.
I would not buy a unit with a regrigerator on a slide ever again. The whole power venting out the side, really, really annoys me. Not only is it noisy, but it is a battery drain as well. I ended up installing 2 batteries and a perko switch just because of this. Where I hunt, we boondock it, and generally only run a generator when needed (A/C or TV).
There have been quite a few things I had to go around and fix. The splash guards on the shower door kept falling off, I cleaned and reinstalled with clear silicone (problem solved). I also had to apply silicone to the tail lights and the power jack switch, as they were both leaking. There have been several screws that either needed tightening or replaced with longer screws (sliding door floor guides and various outlets). My point is, lots of little things, here and there.
I do feel though, that I have most of the issues ironed out now (without manufacturers help). I am not saying that Coachmen or Forest River are total junk, but just that there is some craftsmenship shortsightedness. I think their floorplans and design are wonderful. If I could do it all again, I would prefer another Jayco, but we never found a floorplan that we loved on the new units.
I rest my case.
Joe
Hello everyone, I am new on the forum, but in no way new to RV life.
We have had mixed results with our latest TT so far, it is a Coachmen (Forest River), bought new 2/2016.
Some of the things have been awesome, for example:
We have camped in 105F days in West Texas with no shade, and still held 69F inside. (this is a major upgrade over our older RVision MaxLite)
It seems insulated well, three slides and no obvious drafts. The AC actually cycles in anything other than mid afternoon without shade.
It pulls very well mannered, the axles are spaced apart substantually more than our previous unit, I haven't dealt with sway much with this unit, only time will tell how this spacing will affect the tires, but I can feel the turning resistance when making sharper turns, more tire marks on clean concrete also.
There are a lot of "niceitys" that are new to us, but are common on most new rigs. The pull out sink faucets, large ergonomic bathroom, storage everywhere, all LED lighting (including most compartments), electric fireplace, power jacks, just to name a few.
Some other things have been somewhat problematic:
Our outdoor kitchen, the luggage door leaked, the wood inside was MDF, this was a bad combination as all of the wood swole and warped. The warranty fixed the leak but did not replace the wood without leaving my unit at the dealer for several more weeks for a company representitive to inspect it (in the middle of summer, I think not). Usually, I would be flat out furious, but my brother is a carpenter, so we re-built the entire drink station out of solid oak, problem solved (upgraded actually).
Our bedroom slide ceased to function while packing up to go home one trip. After troubleshooting the fuses and breaker on the slide motor, I noticed that the signal wire to the wall switch had pulled out from the slide control box (2 prong plug). I plugged it it and everything worked. I only bring this up because I could see where less troubleshooting savy people may have needed a service call ($$$). I will also point out that it was all due to the wires being bundled too tight (poor craftsmenship). I loosened the bundle and gave it more slack, it hasn't happened again.
I would not buy a unit with a regrigerator on a slide ever again. The whole power venting out the side, really, really annoys me. Not only is it noisy, but it is a battery drain as well. I ended up installing 2 batteries and a perko switch just because of this. Where I hunt, we boondock it, and generally only run a generator when needed (A/C or TV).
There have been quite a few things I had to go around and fix. The splash guards on the shower door kept falling off, I cleaned and reinstalled with clear silicone (problem solved). I also had to apply silicone to the tail lights and the power jack switch, as they were both leaking. There have been several screws that either needed tightening or replaced with longer screws (sliding door floor guides and various outlets). My point is, lots of little things, here and there.
I do feel though, that I have most of the issues ironed out now (without manufacturers help). I am not saying that Coachmen or Forest River are total junk, but just that there is some craftsmenship shortsightedness. I think their floorplans and design are wonderful. If I could do it all again, I would prefer another Jayco, but we never found a floorplan that we loved on the new units.
I rest my case.
Joe
Now you have me nervous. We just purchased a new 2017 Coachmen Apex 269RBKS. Rear bathroom with a kitchen slide and island sink. Hoping we don't have any major problems with it. We did buy local and the dealer does have a good reputation so I feel good about that.