Please forgive my lack of technical terms, I'm a young woman owning a truck camper for the first time and have been figuring out how an RV works for the past year, but I wanted to know if the battery issues I've been having with my Lance 650 are just a part of owning a small truck camper or are an issue. I must mention that I have to use the battery as the places I camp at don't have electricity to plug into.
I bought my 2016 Lance 650 in March. The first trip I ever took it on was a two night/3 day trip and a 3 hour drive each way. My battery lasted for 3 days with no issues or drainage. By the way, a Lance 650 comes with just one deep cycle RV/Marine battery where some of the larger truck campers may have more than one, or a built in generator just like some larger living quarter horse trailers might have 4 deep cycle batteries on them.
After that first trip, my battery barely made it through 24 hours. The only time it has lasted any longer is within the 2x I've gone back to the dealership and all they do is give me a new battery and say the last one was bad. I finally got solar panels installed hoping it would solve my issues, and it has a little bit. I was told to keep the battery on all the time while my camper charged itself everyday. However, there is never enough battery power to lift all four jacks up at the same time, so even with the solar panels I have to use a battery charger at the power level of jumping a car to get all four jacks to work at the same time. My last trip was only a two day, 1 night trip and the battery got really low at abut 5am the following morning. That night I spent a couple hours with a friend in the truck camper and used the rear outside light, and a few of the interior lights, and then woke up to my smoke detector going off at 5am which is my sign that the battery is low. On all my trips the battery is used minimally as I am outdoors most of the day and my fridge is run on propane. I basically just use the interior lights at night.
My question is; is all of this hassle what I should expect out of a smaller truck camper or is their a deeper issue that I am having? I also need to mention that it is rare that I can plug in my 120v connection from my camper to my garage to do a slow, deep cycle charge. My HOA has issues with my camper in my driveway and it is stored on a dirt field.
Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!
For a basic understanding of deep cycle batteries Battery Faq
We have a similar form factor in a teardrop trailer. We have a 185W solar panel and 150 amp hour AGM battery. I monitor the battery using a Victron battery monitor which tells me how much current is going into and coming out of the batter. The goal is to keep the battery above 50% state of charge. When you go below this permanent damage to the battery occurs. Which brings up conservation when off the grid we do not use anything that uses resistant heat i.e. a coffeemaker... all lights are LED.
Well, you are learning fast and the hard way. First, having just one battery is going to just serve you for running the fridge and a few lights for one night. When it is colder than 55*F you are losing about 60% of your capacity in this one battery. Basically, you are asking too much of your battery and each time you are discharging your battery below it's 55% AH capacity (in other words you use it until it is dead and then charge it up) all you are doing is dedicating this battery to a quick and painful (your pocket book) death.
One of the things you can do now is limit your use of the battery (DC) items, especially if you are using anything supported off a convertor. Also, anything that is going to use heavy amp requirements (Jacks) only perform this with the truck running, as it is providing Amps to your battery through the invertor.
Also, consider using things like Lap Top and other power hungry items, i.e., TVs, cell phone charging, during day shifts(anything that creates heat is using lots of amps and stealing from your single battery), so as your solar may make up the difference. During cold weather these items will warm to the touch and reveal their Amp thefts.
Starting out you might want to check out some of the helpful articles on existing in a TC, battery and Solar use by visiting TCM articles by going to this clicky; Clicky
There are a lot of knowledgeable people here in this forum so don’t hesitate to ask. Many have experienced the same issues you are now and will in the future, so just ask. Or send me a PM with a specific question, too.
b
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300wSolar~2-6vAGM-300AmpH~Tri-Star45/MPPT~Xantrex 1500W
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Looking at the specs for your camper it looks like it is a single battery compartment. That is smallish, but have a look and see if it could hold a single larger battery like a group 27 or 29Did you get the lance option solar panel? It lists as a 95 watt panel. You may want to ask the dealer if a second could be installed.
Make sure that when you park the panel is in the sun
Did the camper come with a meter that shows your current state of charge and battery level? (not the little led scale you flip a switch to see. Those are useless)
Did you run the forced air furnace? These will quickly eat your battery. Pretty much useless for boon docking unless you have a bigger battery and more solar to re-power the battery the next day.
Never let your battery get below 50% (about 12.5 volts) This will reduce the lifespan and holding capacity of the battery. Get yourself a multi-meter so you can accurately test your battery voltage.
Driving the truck should be partially charging the battery but you will want your solar and solar charge controller to do the heavy lifting for boondocking.
Looking at the pics of your camper online, it looks pretty cool. Congrats!
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2020 Grand Design Solitude 2930RL 2520 watts solar. 600ah lithium. Magnum 4000 watt inverter.
bka0721 wrote:
Also, consider using things like Lap Top and other power hungry items, i.e., TVs, cell phone charging, during day shifts(anything that creates heat is using lots of amps and stealing from your single battery), so as your solar may make up the difference. During cold weather these items will warm to the touch and reveal their Amp thefts.
b
Also, consider using things like Lap Top and other power hungry items, i.e., TVs, cell phone charging, during day shifts(anything that creates heat is using lots of amps and stealing from your single battery), so as your solar may make up the difference. During cold weather these items will warm to the touch and reveal their Amp thefts.
b
This is excellent advice, and I would add further do as much charging of stuff as you can while you are traveling using your truck 12v lighter. When you arive all your devices are full. Stuff like computer, phones, camera batteries, any blutooth devices like speakers etc. We have one of these
USB Charging port
as well as a small inverter in the cab of the truck to power up everything while we drive.
First thing I did when faced with this situation was to get a Trimetric monitor so I could see where my big loads were coming from and how my charging system was working. As noted, post up with specific questions, as someone on this forum has surely run up against the same thing and can offer some sound advice.
Hidden Power
Trimetric monitor
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* This post was edited 08/31/17 11:16am by an administrator/moderator *
* This post was edited 08/31/17 11:16am by an administrator/moderator *
The torklift battery solution will really help you out.
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I think you need a generator....AND need to keep the battery fully charged while NOT being used too.
Your solar panel might KEEP it charged but likely won't recover from a deep discharge too good.
(Now to see what the other replies have said.)
Shadow Catcher wrote:
The goal is to keep the battery above 50 percent state of charge.
When you go below this permanent damage to the battery occurs.
The goal is to keep the battery above 50 percent state of charge.
When you go below this permanent damage to the battery occurs.
Your goal should be to keep it above 90 percent as much as possible.
And that second statement depends in part on what KIND of battery you have and how LONG it stays at that low level of charge.
One that is designed for "deep discharge" won't be harmed significantly by an occasional dip below 50 percent.......IF it is recharged right away.
Are you running the furnace at all? That will be the biggest draw in your camper.
I wouldn't think the CO detector would draw that much since ours can run on 2 AA batteries for a year...but it's worth a shot disconnecting it and getting one that isn't hardwired.
What levels does your battery monitor say when fully charged and when you're saying it's low? 12.2? 12.4?
The reason the batteries are dying so fast is that they are never getting fully recharged.
To help you, we need to know the following:
1. what converter do you have (battery charger).
2. how many watts of solar panels do you have?
3. is the solar system wired directly to the battery bank?
4. what charge controller is being used?
Here is a "solar primer" to help upgrade the system:
https://freecampsites.net/adding-solar/
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
pianotuna wrote:
1. what converter do you have (battery charger).
1. what converter do you have (battery charger).
Yes good questions. But the converter doesn't make much difference if she seldom or never gets connected to shore power and doesn't have a generator.
I feel a bit relieved to know that the battery usage appears to be normal based on what everyone has said. I didn't realize the furnace uses that much battery and I do use it quite a bit during the night. I think before I spend any more money, I should just save up and get a generator.
I do have another question though, should I try to get in the habit of plugging my Lance into the 120V outlet in the garage for about 12 hours before and after a trip? Could a deep cycle charge help my battery out?
Thanks again everyone!
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My biggest challenge was battery use. Simply stated, how many Amp Hours (AH) did I need per day, and how did I replace the. Only something like a Trimetric can tell you how many AHs you used/using, how many you have, and how many you are putting back into your battery. In my case, my battery has 100 AH. I used 22 to 26 AH per day. I only have/need one 100 AH AGM battery, and 130 watts of solar. I think the furnace is a battery hog. I seldom use mine, and use a Wave3 heater instead.
I used my laptop and watched TV from 3 to 4 hours per night. I only used my Honda 2000 when I wanted to use my A/C or microwave. If you are interested, I can provide details.
Wayne
horseshoesnhappyhrs wrote:
I feel a bit relieved to know that the battery usage appears to be normal based on what everyone has said. I didn't realize the furnace uses that much battery and I do use it quite a bit during the night. I think before I spend any more money, I should just save up and get a generator.
That could be a tough decision. I can say it is cheaper to save battery usage than it is to increase/replace it. The furnace easily uses 15 to 20 AH per day. A Wave3 heater (about $300) uses no battery power. A decent generator will cost about $1000.I feel a bit relieved to know that the battery usage appears to be normal based on what everyone has said. I didn't realize the furnace uses that much battery and I do use it quite a bit during the night. I think before I spend any more money, I should just save up and get a generator.
horseshoesnhappyhrs wrote:
I do have another question though, should I try to get in the habit of plugging my Lance into the 120V outlet in the garage for about 12 hours before and after a trip? Could a deep cycle charge help my battery out?
I do have another question though, should I try to get in the habit of plugging my Lance into the 120V outlet in the garage for about 12 hours before and after a trip? Could a deep cycle charge help my battery out?
More information is needed on the charger you have in your TC. Post the make and model number, or a photo. We could then better advise you. Simply stated, any time you can plug in to 120v is a good thing.
Wayne
horseshoesnhappyhrs wrote:
should I try to get in the habit of plugging my Lance into the 120V outlet in the garage for about 12 hours before and after a trip? Could a deep cycle charge help my battery out?
should I try to get in the habit of plugging my Lance into the 120V outlet in the garage for about 12 hours before and after a trip? Could a deep cycle charge help my battery out?
Yes, yes and yes.
But probably little to be gained by discarding a good battery now.
And plugging it in for 12 hours every couple of weeks when it sits unused too.
And disconnecting the battery when it's unused for more than a week too.
horseshoesnhappyhrs wrote:
I really appreciate everyone's replies and explanation of things to me, so thank you!
I feel a bit relieved to know that the battery usage appears to be normal based on what everyone has said. I didn't realize the furnace uses that much battery and I do use it quite a bit during the night. I think before I spend any more money, I should just save up and get a generator.
Thanks again everyone!
I really appreciate everyone's replies and explanation of things to me, so thank you!
I feel a bit relieved to know that the battery usage appears to be normal based on what everyone has said. I didn't realize the furnace uses that much battery and I do use it quite a bit during the night. I think before I spend any more money, I should just save up and get a generator.
Thanks again everyone!
IMO it's sort of silly to outfit truck campers with these forced air furnaces, especially on units like yours where a genset isn't even an manufacturer option. Same with microwaves. Most people don't get truck campers to park them in trailer parks.
If you get a generator you will need to think about where to keep it when you travel, where to keep the gas etc.
For less than a small whisper generator costs you might look at getting a more serious solar array and a couple good batteries. Your current compartment holds 0ne group 27 battery but you could add 2 more and mount them in the bed of the truck ahead of the wheel wells where truck campers leave a space. 200 watts of good solar on the roof a good charge controller should keep your batteries charged providing you have good sun during the day and you avoid using the forced air too much.
Systems are pretty cheap. You may need to enlist some help to install if you aren't electrically savy. There are tons of videos on youtube to help
Decent 200 watt kit for less than $350
work2much wrote:
IMO it's sort of silly to outfit truck campers with these forced air furnaces, especially on units like yours where a genset isn't even an manufacturer option.
IMO it's sort of silly to outfit truck campers with these forced air furnaces, especially on units like yours where a genset isn't even an manufacturer option.
So, what kind of heat should they have? Force air works fine without hookups.
Of course, most of us have done a few things to lower the usage like add reflectix and keep the temperature a bit lower. See the Winterizing threads for more examples.
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jimh425 wrote:
So, what kind of heat should they have? Force air works fine without hookups.
Of course, most of us have done a few things to lower the usage like add reflectix and keep the temperature a bit lower. See the Winterizing threads for more examples.
work2much wrote:
IMO it's sort of silly to outfit truck campers with these forced air furnaces, especially on units like yours where a genset isn't even an manufacturer option.
IMO it's sort of silly to outfit truck campers with these forced air furnaces, especially on units like yours where a genset isn't even an manufacturer option.
So, what kind of heat should they have? Force air works fine without hookups.
Of course, most of us have done a few things to lower the usage like add reflectix and keep the temperature a bit lower. See the Winterizing threads for more examples.
Not on my camper. It has room for 2 group 24 batteries from Arctic Fox. Without using a generator or having hook ups batteries are useless after 2 nights of cold camping using the furnace. Truck running doesn't fully charge batteries. What is the solution from Lance to run microwaves and furnaces without generator or hook-ups?
In this case the camper comes stock with one battery, no generator option from Lance. Not sure how you keep the heat going without more battery and a way to recharge them.
work2much wrote:
Not on my camper.
Not on my camper.
There isn't one solution for everyone. You didn't answer my question of what heat they should have instead.
There are many here that would rather not have a built-in generator standard. I'm assuming the manufacturers know that. There are any number of low price generators out there that are suitable to run a microwave if you wanted to or charge your batteries. I don't think the solution is to add $4000 generators to every camper just in case someone might use one.
jimh425 wrote:
There isn't one solution for everyone. You didn't answer my question of what heat they should have instead.
There are many here that would rather not have a built-in generator standard. I'm assuming the manufacturers know that. There are any number of low price generators out there that are suitable to run a microwave if you wanted to or charge your batteries. I don't think the solution is to add $4000 generators to every camper just in case someone might use one.
work2much wrote:
Not on my camper.
Not on my camper.
There isn't one solution for everyone. You didn't answer my question of what heat they should have instead.
There are many here that would rather not have a built-in generator standard. I'm assuming the manufacturers know that. There are any number of low price generators out there that are suitable to run a microwave if you wanted to or charge your batteries. I don't think the solution is to add $4000 generators to every camper just in case someone might use one.
Wait, first you say forced air works fine without hookups. Genset is a hook up.
There are plenty of heating options rather than requiring a high DC draw. Several manufacturers offer radiant heating systems. Many of us use them. A manufacturer like lance (or any of them) could certainly work with any number of heating manufacturers and provide a built in radiant UL listed safe system. Truck campers are small enough that they do not need high speed fans blasting air around. Waste of DC power. We keep a much larger camper warm with less than 5k BTU in the snow. A 18K BTU heater is an overkill. These furnaces are very inefficient for both gas and DC.
This camper from what I can tell has nowhere to store a portable generator outside of the living space. It's not that it didn't come standard with a generator. It doesn't have a solution to carry one either. My point was that at a minimum she has to consider where she is going to safely secure a gas engine and fuel for it.
Until we know the make of the converter, 12 hours is likely not nearly enough. It can take up to 168 hours to fully recharge a battery.
work2much wrote:
My point was that at a minimum she has to consider where she is going to safely secure a gas engine and fuel for it.
My point was that at a minimum she has to consider where she is going to safely secure a gas engine and fuel for it.
That's reasonable and a lot different than implying something is wrong with manufacturers using forced air heat.
I used forced air heat a week without hookups or generator running to charge batteries. I'm sure I could have gone longer. Will that work for you, from what you said, no. We drove some during the day, btw.
Of course, there are disadvantages of radiant heat as well. I was just curious what you were suggesting. None of those methods heat a basement, for instance without creating your own method to force air in that area. They are relativity slow to heat a large space.
jimh425 wrote:
That's reasonable and a lot different than implying something is wrong with manufacturers using forced air heat.
I used forced air heat a week without hookups or generator running to charge batteries. I'm sure I could have gone longer. Will that work for you, from what you said, no. We drove some during the day, btw.
Of course, there are disadvantages of radiant heat as well. I was just curious what you were suggesting. None of those methods heat a basement, for instance without creating your own method to force air in that area. They are relativity slow to heat a large space.
work2much wrote:
My point was that at a minimum she has to consider where she is going to safely secure a gas engine and fuel for it.
My point was that at a minimum she has to consider where she is going to safely secure a gas engine and fuel for it.
That's reasonable and a lot different than implying something is wrong with manufacturers using forced air heat.
I used forced air heat a week without hookups or generator running to charge batteries. I'm sure I could have gone longer. Will that work for you, from what you said, no. We drove some during the day, btw.
Of course, there are disadvantages of radiant heat as well. I was just curious what you were suggesting. None of those methods heat a basement, for instance without creating your own method to force air in that area. They are relativity slow to heat a large space.
Our AF1150's heated basement is nothing more than a small computer type fan that circulates air through the basement. There is no ducting to the basement. If the living space is warm the basement won't freeze. The fan motor on our forced air furnace pulls about 8 amps. That's a pretty good draw. Combine with loss of battery efficiency due to cold and never wanting to deplete battery below 50% means that a 200 Ah bank may only be good for 60-70 AH. Driving the truck doesn't fully charge a battery bank. Hard on batteries to float around near (or below) 50%.
With our recently added solar and battery upgrades we could easily run the forced air furnace all we want but it's coming out. it is a wasted space, it's inefficient, noisy. The intermittent blasts of hot air at night wakes me up going from cold to hot.
OP can look up ventless indoor propane heaters, do their own research. They work great for us.
rjxj wrote:
Speaking of TC furnaces, what happened to the old style that ran on propane but didn't use a blower or any electricit? I had an old Honey with one of those.
Speaking of TC furnaces, what happened to the old style that ran on propane but didn't use a blower or any electricit? I had an old Honey with one of those.
Those were like mini versions of wall heaters if I remember correctly. Seems like a modern high efficiency version would be a perfect fit for todays truck camper. A small fan like a usb type could mix air around. Something like this would use practically no DC and much less propane.
rjxj wrote:
Speaking of TC furnaces, what happened to the old style that ran on propane but didn't use a blower or any electricit? I had an old Honey with one of those.
Speaking of TC furnaces, what happened to the old style that ran on propane but didn't use a blower or any electricit? I had an old Honey with one of those.
I agree , they should re-issue them . My old TC still has one , 0.01a for thermostat and 0.09a for optional cross flow fan , total of 1.00a when using fan .
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ticki2 wrote:
I agree , they should re-issue them . My old TC still has one , 0.01a for thermostat and 0.09a for optional cross flow fan , total of 1.00a when using fan .
rjxj wrote:
Speaking of TC furnaces, what happened to the old style that ran on propane but didn't use a blower or any electricit? I had an old Honey with one of those.
Speaking of TC furnaces, what happened to the old style that ran on propane but didn't use a blower or any electricit? I had an old Honey with one of those.
I agree , they should re-issue them . My old TC still has one , 0.01a for thermostat and 0.09a for optional cross flow fan , total of 1.00a when using fan .
I think in some ways truck camper manufacturers and buyers get too caught up features found in much larger RV's A 18,000 BTU forced air system in a 70 square foot space is pretty silly but it looks impressive on a spec sheet or an ad.
jimh425 wrote:
So, what kind of heat should they have? Force air works fine without hookups. ...
A Wave heater would be a good choice. The have worked well for me since the '70s, literally 1000s or more in use. I don't care to argue if the sky is falling because of their improper use, even though it is extremely rare.work2much wrote:
IMO it's sort of silly to outfit truck campers with these forced air furnaces, especially on units like yours where a genset isn't even an manufacturer option.
IMO it's sort of silly to outfit truck campers with these forced air furnaces, especially on units like yours where a genset isn't even an manufacturer option.
So, what kind of heat should they have? Force air works fine without hookups. ...
Wayne
Since, I'm assuming, you tow your horse/trailer around with your Titan gasser pickup with L-650 aboard, what are the chances of making room in the trailer for a couple more batteries and heavy duty wiring and plug? Bryan (BKA), above has a large battery collection in his trailer and wired it up to his overpowering solar array and the F-550. Also, I missed the wattage of your solar panel(s). Is it enough? Do you park it in the sun? Living in AZ, there is plenteous sun to harness. Is there any more room for another battery in the engine compartment, like the diesels use? We have an older Lance with the same footprint as your L-650 and have only one group 27 battery, which has served us well backed up with 200 watts of solar, all LED interior lighting, miserly power use and new converter. Our ace in the hole is the use of the two truck batteries in line with the Lance house battery. All 3 batteries are group 27 starting batteries. Only once ( I'm such a fool) when by mistake I left the fridge on 12V overnight did the 3 battery system go down and that was before all the upgrades. I shan't do anything that dumb again. The incident forced me out of the 12v running of the fridge at all and switchover to propane. By installing an aluminum wind deflector shield behind the fridge side vent, I got the pilot to stay on while motating down the highway.
Anyway, this forum has some of the very best RV electrical gurus anywhere. No, I'm not one of them. Absorb their sometimes disparate advice and run.
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