I'd be interested in hearing any hands on experiences with a lithium battery install in an RV. Sources, issues, curses and costs. I'm currently going through some scenarios on upgrading my battery to the 250-300 AH range (usable) for install next spring.
Obviously lithium is still very pricy, especially for the 'drop in' variety like Smartbattery for instance, and that may keep me on Pb so I'd be especially interested in hearing about anyone who has gone more to the yourself route which I'd expect could cut costs a fair bit for the extra effort.
......................................
Ford Explorer or Chrysler 300C to tow with.
Tracer Air 238 to be towed.
Triumph Thunderbird Sport - with the toy-hauler gone it's at home.
Retired very early and loving it.
http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/rv-modifications-technology
2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up
These people handle both Lithium and Carbon Foam AGM:
http://www.bruceschwab.com/advanced-ener........-systems/firefly-energys-oasis-group-31/
2014 ORV Timber Ridge 240RKS,8500#,1250# tongue,44K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar,4 GC2s,215Ah@24V
2016 Ram 2500 4x4 RgCab CTD,2507# payload,10.8 mpgUS tow
2003 Revolution 40C Class A. Electric smart car as a Toad on a smart car trailer
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but rather by the moments that take our breath away.
For us with out any doubt the very best upgrade we have ever done to our RV
LiFeMnPO4 200amp/hr battery bank
Far simplified charging, No voltage sag with the 2Kw inverter, Smaller in size and even better 1/3 the total weight, etc..
But most here will NOT agree
Suggest you try a boat forum to get more up to date info
Build a life you don't need a vacation from.
2016 Silverado 3500HD DRW D/A 4x4
2018 Keystone Cougar 26RBS
2006 Weekend Warrior FK1900
beemerphile1 wrote:
The Roadtrek Ecotrek class B comes with lithium batteries. You may find some information there.
Anyone know what brand?
The Roadtrek Ecotrek class B comes with lithium batteries. You may find some information there.
Ed - on the Central Oregon coast
2018 Winnebago Fuse 23A
Scion xA toad
KJINTF wrote:
To each their own
For us with out any doubt the very best upgrade we have ever done to our RV
LiFeMnPO4 200amp/hr battery bank
Far simplified charging, No voltage sag with the 2Kw inverter, Smaller in size and even better 1/3 the total weight, etc..
But most here will NOT agree
Suggest you try a boat forum to get more up to date info
To each their own
For us with out any doubt the very best upgrade we have ever done to our RV
LiFeMnPO4 200amp/hr battery bank
Far simplified charging, No voltage sag with the 2Kw inverter, Smaller in size and even better 1/3 the total weight, etc..
But most here will NOT agree
Suggest you try a boat forum to get more up to date info
Everything but the cost. LOL
Robert McHenry
Currently, Henniker NH
07 Fleetwood Discovery 39V
1K Solar dieselrvowners.com
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Prior:1993 Pace Arrow 37' Diesel
120 - 150 is NOT uncommon use for us
there would be NO excess left over for another day or night use
we have 675 ampHrs and after yesterdays rain, and some bad gas for the generator
little run time, we were at 488 ampHrs aka 69.1 percent soc this morning
down 187 ampHrs
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !
....
Connected using T-Mobile Home internet and Visible Phone service
1997 F53 Bounder 36s
Now how many times have I read tales that state "I researched. I studied. I prepared. I purchased several thousand dollars worth of (insert item here) and dang I was dead wrong about it all!"
Don't hold your breath. How does a person "manage" vehicle charging a lithium bank via the engine alternator? A innocuous question. I ha e no idea of the answer. Do the lithium packages include plug and play energy management.
FYI my reluctance is based on the surety of battery damage if over discharged. Nothing wrong with the battery I would distrust the owner hee hee.
Some LI packages are plug and play. One that I surfed to even has a heater built into the jar. Cost for that one was a mere $10 per amp-hour ($1000 for a 100 amp-hour battery)
My brother managed to destroy one by attempting to charge it when it was too cold. He was intending to do a refresh charge in December on an LI motorcycle battery. He was using the recommended charger from the company.
If I were to go LI, I would certainly try to add automatic generator start to the mix. That won't be easy to do as most of those rely on battery voltage monitoring and with LI there is very little drop.
Then there is the cold weather issue.
Apparently LI has zero tolerance for abuse. Do it once, and only once and you get to replace an extremely expensive battery bank.
All in all, I think carbon foam may be a better technology. But there is no history and very few users at the moment.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
How do you deal with the cold weather issue?
KJINTF wrote:
To each their own
For us with out any doubt the very best upgrade we have ever done to our RV
LiFeMnPO4 200amp/hr battery bank
Far simplified charging, No voltage sag with the 2Kw inverter, Smaller in size and even better 1/3 the total weight, etc..
But most here will NOT agree
Suggest you try a boat forum to get more up to date info
To each their own
For us with out any doubt the very best upgrade we have ever done to our RV
LiFeMnPO4 200amp/hr battery bank
Far simplified charging, No voltage sag with the 2Kw inverter, Smaller in size and even better 1/3 the total weight, etc..
But most here will NOT agree
Suggest you try a boat forum to get more up to date info
Personal Hands on Experience of a year with our Prismatic Cells
The Prismatic cells have two primary uses 1- Power the 2kw inverter 2- power the stock heater blower motor, leaving the existing GC batteries for the other loads. Nice to be able to use the Microwave, while DW is sleeping, in the early morning after watching a few movies with the stock heater (aka power hog) on all night.
To date no issues with Charging, Metering, Monitoring or Warning/Alarm systems. Most of which we custom built.
Looked at the "Plug & Play" "Drop In" 12vdc replacements and decided against them for several reasons. The primary one being they are typically made of many many smaller batteries in a series parallel combination. Suggest you take a look at several available Prismatic Cells rather than the "Drop In" replacements.
PT - The cells are in a climate controlled storage bin. We store the Rig from late October through April in a heated barn. So for us there are No cold weather issues for the cells
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
How does a person "manage" vehicle charging a lithium bank via the engine alternator? A innocuous question. I ha e no idea of the answer. Do the lithium packages include plug and play energy management.
How does a person "manage" vehicle charging a lithium bank via the engine alternator? A innocuous question. I ha e no idea of the answer. Do the lithium packages include plug and play energy management.
Best plug and play solution I have seen is the Victron BMS 12/200 for use with their batteries:
![[image]](http://www.ultraflexgroup.com/easyUp/store/Zoom/1169_victron_bms_12v_sche_haxh_z.jpg)
Requires a 12v-12v isolating converter for any 12v loads using chassis ground, not sure why. Uses fuses to limit charge current, kinda neat.
2016 Winnebago Vista 31be - Blue Ox Rear Track Bar - Centramatic Wheel balancers
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon Toad - Readybrute Elite Towbar
KJINTF wrote:
To each their own
For us with out any doubt the very best upgrade we have ever done to our RV
LiFeMnPO4 200amp/hr battery bank
Far simplified charging, No voltage sag with the 2Kw inverter, Smaller in size and even better 1/3 the total weight, etc..
But most here will NOT agree
Suggest you try a boat forum to get more up to date info
To each their own
For us with out any doubt the very best upgrade we have ever done to our RV
LiFeMnPO4 200amp/hr battery bank
Far simplified charging, No voltage sag with the 2Kw inverter, Smaller in size and even better 1/3 the total weight, etc..
But most here will NOT agree
Suggest you try a boat forum to get more up to date info
Do you have a suggested one, what did you do specifically?
I have been getting some decent information from some electric car forums, but still looking for more details on what works with the chargign protection circuits and a better source for the cells.
pianotuna wrote:
Hi MEX,
Cost for that one was a mere $10 per amp-hour ($1000 for a 100 amp-hour battery)
Hi MEX,
Cost for that one was a mere $10 per amp-hour ($1000 for a 100 amp-hour battery)
Do you have a link to what you choose?
Cold weather is not a big issue, -5 C is about it for me.
I am not expecting to be able to put much charge in while driving, but it will not run down and that is all I care about as the charging will almost all be by generator.
KJINTF wrote:
"Hands on Experience"
Personal Hands on Experience of a year with our Prismatic Cells
"Hands on Experience"
Personal Hands on Experience of a year with our Prismatic Cells
Thanks, I'll look into these more, this modular approach gives me some safety is some cells go bad. The electric car guys and some of the manufacturers websites talk about the modules distorting easy and losing capacity and so requiring clamping plates. I've just started looking at these ones now, but they talk about them being soft sided. Are yours soft, and did you clamp them or??
Are you going in the deep cold, hence the heating for capacity? I have looked at the capacity charts and it looks like they will be ok for my purposes, and they will be in a compartment that will be heated by the furnace - eventually they will charge and come up to capacity. Is there something more I am missing on why you are heating it?
I chose surplus acid AGM telecom jars.
-5 C may be too cold for LI to be charged.
horton333 wrote:
Do you have a link to what you choose?
Cold weather is not a big issue, -5 C is about it for me.
I am not expecting to be able to put much charge in while driving, but it will not run down and that is all I care about as the charging will almost all be by generator.
Do you have a link to what you choose?
Cold weather is not a big issue, -5 C is about it for me.
I am not expecting to be able to put much charge in while driving, but it will not run down and that is all I care about as the charging will almost all be by generator.
horton333 wrote:
...
Are you going in the deep cold, hence the heating for capacity? I have looked at the capacity charts and it looks like they will be ok for my purposes, and they will be in a compartment that will be heated by the furnace - eventually they will charge and come up to capacity. Is there something more I am missing on why you are heating it?
...
Are you going in the deep cold, hence the heating for capacity? I have looked at the capacity charts and it looks like they will be ok for my purposes, and they will be in a compartment that will be heated by the furnace - eventually they will charge and come up to capacity. Is there something more I am missing on why you are heating it?
My understanding is that charging LiPO4 at much below freezing will harm the batteries. However they can be discharged below freezing.
Take a look at Elite Power Solutions
They carry the GBS line which is very good
GOOGLE Prismatic cells
YES the cells SHOULD be strapped together
Each and every installation will be different - showing mine will confuse most
I would suggest you first write down and understand exactly what it is you want from your battery bank. I find when it's on paper virtual or not it's far easier to visualize what the solution could be.
Not knowing your electronics design capabilities
I would suggest you follow Boating forums, Electric car forums, and a few EE blogs. Remember the applications are ALL different. An electric car draws way more than "C" while a typical house battery in an RV is far below "C".
Can't remember the boater in Maine (the link has been posted here several times in the past) that has a nice blog on LiFEPO4 battery pack being used in a similar application as a RV house battery.
Cruisers would love lithoum ion as few of them are icebreakers. They go south or Puddlejump seasons. My place on the coast would love 3300 amp hours of 24 volts but the weoght of 330,000,000 pesos in banknotes would put me im traction.
KJINTF wrote:
horton
Take a look at Elite Power Solutions
They carry the GBS line which is very good
horton
Take a look at Elite Power Solutions
They carry the GBS line which is very good
That line does look interesting, cost in line and interesting in that they claim to pass car crash safety specs as well as 'superior cell balancing' (although I have yet to find a spec sheet that quantifies that second claim). They seem to use a brute force on their cell balancer, that may just be to keep it cheap (have not yet found a Canadian price on anything but the cell kits themselves, but really just starting the look and I'll send an email later to their distributor).
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
It gets to -5c many places down here in the winter. Using LPG to maintain a heated bay would be an issue. How does borderline temperatures affect those batteries a) capacity b) CCA?
Cruisers would love lithoum ion as few of them are icebreakers. They go south or Puddlejump seasons. My place on the coast would love 3300 amp hours of 24 volts but the weoght of 330,000,000 pesos in banknotes would put me im traction.
It gets to -5c many places down here in the winter. Using LPG to maintain a heated bay would be an issue. How does borderline temperatures affect those batteries a) capacity b) CCA?
Cruisers would love lithoum ion as few of them are icebreakers. They go south or Puddlejump seasons. My place on the coast would love 3300 amp hours of 24 volts but the weoght of 330,000,000 pesos in banknotes would put me im traction.
Scroll down here for a temp chart which seems typical for capacity. There is a separate specification for operating temperature, and these seems to stop near zero C or slightly below so as per above comments there may be a problem with charging when cold, TBD.
STAY AWAY from liPo batteries they go boom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The li-ion tend to go boom as well
LiFe and LMP are good safe technologies - lower voltage typically 3.2 Vs 3.7
I have no personal experience with Li batteries in the cold
Never use any of my LiPo RC batteries in the cold weather either
Sorry no clue how they react to excessive cold
Every application is different
Our liFeMnPo4 cells mounted in the RV stay in a heated barn during the cold winter months.
Cell Balancing devices work by discharging the higher voltages at a whopping 50 to 100ma rate - with 200amp/hr cell how long would it take? Properly designed Warning and Alarm systems along with a bottom balance every once in a while works for many. Do some research BMS systems are many times the cause of fires not the batteries themselves.
* This post was edited 11/28/16 10:03am by KJINTF *
Two 6 volt Costco house batteries for a total of 220amp/hrs which only about 100 are usable
And the Lithium it's only used for the heater and MW via inverter
Even with a 50% cycle on the blower you only use about 40>50 amp hrs for the heater, leaving plenty for the MW
ALL other house duties is on the GC
Is that correct ?
And you store all winter, so you are not really cold weather campers
So heater blower use is even less than my calculations