The bighorn has a Lippert 1621HD pin box, the bottom plate of which isn't up to supporting all of the pin weight on the ends of the two set screws which carry all the load with the Andersen hitch adapter. See photos for issues. Dealer won't deal with the issue, and after approximately 3 weeks Andersen isn't saying anything yet either so being as how I have a long roadtrip planned for the near future, I ended up buying a B&W hitch, which is installed in the truck already, and Reese fifth airborne pin box which should arrive and be installed Monday.
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/XbKRxDX.jpg )
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/bYVaEly.jpg )
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/Z79DMHfl.jpg)
Due to pin box length, ball adapter is installed with ball installed aft of pin. Collapse of pin box base plate was slow and progressive over the miles.
2015 Ram 3500 Laramie CTD, 4X4, AISIN, B&W Companion Puck Mount
2016 Heartland Bighorn 3270RS, 1kw solar with Trimetric and dual SC2030, 600 watt and 2k inverters.
Using the bed for support on newer trucks is IMO, not the best idea, no matter what hitch.
I think the puck system is the best overall, for standard hitches, and likely an Andersen style puck mount in the near future.
Hope the new B&W works for you, with no issues.
Jerry
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2015 Winnebago Forza 34T
pushed by a 2011 Fusion Hybrid or 2020 Escape Hybrid
Retired DFD
Thanks for the honest feedback. Chris
2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it! RIP DW 07-05-2021
My dad is purchasing an Andersen rail mount for his new fiver but his campers GVWR is around 9,500-10,000 lbs....about ideal for the Andersen.
Thanks!
Jeremiah
TV-2022 Silverado 2WD
TT - Zinger 270BH
WD Hitch- HaulMaster 1,000 lb Round Bar
Dual Friction bar sway control
It’s Kind of Fun to do the Impossible
~Walt Disney~
Regarding the bed mounted hitch, obviously I agree hence the decision to go with the puck mount B&W. It's a much more solid hitch, and by the end of Oct I should have 3k or so miles towing with it so I can asses better.
Other issues with the Andersen, first trip to dealer with the trailer for warranty work, when I went to pick it up, couldn't lock the hitch adapter pin. Little ding in the lip of the adapter had to be sanded out to get the pin to slide easily. Didn't think much of it. Second trip to dealer, same thing, only worse and the dealer replaced hitch adapter for me. Suspected culprit is the ball setup they had on their forklift. They adapted a different setup for the Andersen for the future.
I also have occasionally had a loud POP, that happened if braking hard, accelerating hard, or most commonly when the 5er was pulled or backed up in soft soil/gravel where it sank in a bit. Finally got someone to drive the truck while I rode on the running boards to see what was going on. Seems the hitch base would slip just a hair under certain conditions, less than a quarter inch but it would jump all at once and be loud when it did it. Probably related to the spray in bed liner and a rubber mat or something would probably take care of that. For the record, the hitch adapter was torqued with weight on the ball. It's a pain to do as well, because with the hitch adapter set with the ball behind the pin, this means you have to jackknife the truck so you can crawl in there to get on the upper bolt with the torque wrench. Kind of a pain in the tush.
Anyway, I had high hopes for the Andersen initially, and talked the dealer into getting me one when I bought the trailer. I really like the concept. When I actually got it instead of reading about it I was a little concerned initially, but at the same time excited by the ease of installation and removal. Being someone that uses the truck for "truck duties" from time to time, and having several ruptured discs in my back light is good. Hopefully they'll come up with a better design in the future that works within the somewhat poorly designed trailer frames that rule the day.
Though it doesn't matter to you any longer, you could use a crows foot adapter to tighten the bolt after setting the trailer on it ;-)
Duramax + Grand Design 5er + B & W Companion
SBGTF
WTP-GC wrote:
That pinbbox is just freaky. That is likely the culprit for all the other issues you mentioned. The fact that it essentially self-destructed would have me extremely upset with the manufacturer. I know that it would appear that the 2 set screws hold all the weigh, but the lateral forces against the kingpin are pretty significant as well. There's a lot of people towing with the Andersen, yet this is the first reported issue along these lines I'm aware of. Not trying to be critical, just saying that the pinbox is obviously majorly deficient.
Though it doesn't matter to you any longer, you could use a crows foot adapter to tighten the bolt after setting the trailer on it ;-)
That pinbbox is just freaky. That is likely the culprit for all the other issues you mentioned. The fact that it essentially self-destructed would have me extremely upset with the manufacturer. I know that it would appear that the 2 set screws hold all the weigh, but the lateral forces against the kingpin are pretty significant as well. There's a lot of people towing with the Andersen, yet this is the first reported issue along these lines I'm aware of. Not trying to be critical, just saying that the pinbox is obviously majorly deficient.
Though it doesn't matter to you any longer, you could use a crows foot adapter to tighten the bolt after setting the trailer on it ;-)
I'm not so sure about others not having issues. The maintenance section at my dealers said they don't even like to deal with the Andersen hitches because of all the problems they have with them. In addition, I walked around the storage lot where I used to store my 5er and looked at several of the other rigs that had Andersen adapters on them (They are actually fairly common in this area). I saw a toyhauler with a mor ryde on it that the Andersen adapter was deforming in the same manner as mine deformed. The mor-ryde not being welded on the sides allowed you to see the bending much more easily than on a standard pin box That said this pin box wasn't deformed quite as bad yet. On the other hand, I've talked with several other Andersen owners, and other than base shifting type issues and a couple complaints regarding the set screw gouges on the pin box, I haven't heard any complaints.
Regarding the pin box design, it's pretty standard for how pin boxes are made. This particular box has a 3/16 inch thick plate of mild steel welded onto a frame bottom of approximately 12 inches wide by 10 inches long. Focus 3k or so static load onto less than a square inch of that plate and then repeatedly hit it with shock loads and eventually it will deform. Spread the same impact over the bulk of the plate surface and it would probably hold up to the 18k trailer it's rated for.
I'll ignore the crows foot comment, as you haven't seen my tool box. It's way to heavy, and I can't find anything in it anyway. My truck tool box has hydraulic crimpers, multimeters, an oscilloscope, battery capacity tester, inspection camera, wrenches, sockets, jacks, chains for the truck and trailer, tow straps, hardware etc. etc. etc. I need to downsize, or buy a bigger truck already. Adding more....
Searching_Ut wrote:
Dealer won't deal with the issue, and after approximately 3 weeks Andersen isn't saying anything yet either so being as how I have a long roadtrip planned for the near future, I ended up buying a B&W hitch, which is installed in the truck already, and Reese fifth airborne pin box which should arrive and be installed Monday.
Dealer won't deal with the issue, and after approximately 3 weeks Andersen isn't saying anything yet either so being as how I have a long roadtrip planned for the near future, I ended up buying a B&W hitch, which is installed in the truck already, and Reese fifth airborne pin box which should arrive and be installed Monday.
You've made the right choice IMHO.
I'm sure you won't have trouble from the new setup.
Camp On!
Mule: 2016 RAM Mega Cab Dually 4X4, RAM Puck w/ Demco Hijacker 21K Autoslide, Laramie, 6.7, Aisin, 4.10's, 51 Gal Midship Titan Fuel Tank.
Wagon: 2015 Jayco Pinnacle 38FLSA, Sailun G's, Center Point Air Suspension, 572 Watts Solar w/4 T-145s.
Searching_Ut wrote:
I'll ignore the crows foot comment, as you haven't seen my tool box. It's way to heavy, and I can't find anything in it anyway. My truck tool box has hydraulic crimpers, multimeters, an oscilloscope, battery capacity tester, inspection camera, wrenches, sockets, jacks, chains for the truck and trailer, tow straps, hardware etc. etc. etc. I need to downsize, or buy a bigger truck already. Adding more....
I'll ignore the crows foot comment, as you haven't seen my tool box. It's way to heavy, and I can't find anything in it anyway. My truck tool box has hydraulic crimpers, multimeters, an oscilloscope, battery capacity tester, inspection camera, wrenches, sockets, jacks, chains for the truck and trailer, tow straps, hardware etc. etc. etc. I need to downsize, or buy a bigger truck already. Adding more....
You just explained the reason why I gave up on toolboxes several years back. One day I decided to clean it out because I had become so frustrated with the clutter and ended condensing everything I used frequently into a few rugged tool bags that could fit under the back seat. I've never looked back. My current TV has a flat bed with side boxes, which is more than I need.
The only defense I've ever given for the Andersen UH is against those who would question its rigidity in regards to rated capacity. Such critics usually throw out baseless assertions due to observing only a few issues. I think your situation goes to show that, while the product is an excellent design and idea, it may not be compatible with all rigs. I would love to see some follow up from Andersen regarding this and maybe some from LCI as well.
For me, the Andersen has performed flawlessly. I have a Mor-Ryde pin box, which does have a little thicker plate than the standard LCI. You can see the screw marks from the adapter, but they've not made any intentions. With my situation, the Andersen was/is the only option available for me. My bed height is too high to install rails and a standard hitch. The GN ball well isn't big enough for the B & W companion flatbed series to fit into. When I contacted B & W about making a longer shank for the companion, they said "no". I have the Andersen because it was my only option (other than a GN adapter) but it hasn't been a bad decision.
To the OP, are you going to have your pin box inspected to see if it needs replacement ?
Rob
U.S. Army retired
2020 Solitude 310GK-R
MORryde IS, disc brakes, solar, DP windows
(Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
2012 F350 CC DRW Lariat 6.7
Full-time since 8/2015
minnow wrote:
LCI only recommends their Reese Goosebox if using a gooseneck ball. I imagine their response to a bent pin box and Andersen Hitch is "We told you so".
To the OP, are you going to have your pin box inspected to see if it needs replacement ?
LCI only recommends their Reese Goosebox if using a gooseneck ball. I imagine their response to a bent pin box and Andersen Hitch is "We told you so".
To the OP, are you going to have your pin box inspected to see if it needs replacement ?
The Andersen Ultimate is NOT a gooseneck - common misconception. From an engineering point of view, the forces on the pin box and trailer are the same as those with a conventional fifth wheel hitch. A gooseneck adds a long "lever" in the form of the gooseneck post which puts torsional forces on the pin box and twists it in a circular fashion. The Andersen does not do this.
Rob
I can easily see how the inbox plate can be dented with a heavier load as seen in the pics.
I repeat, the andersen is a QUALITY made product but IMHO they should not be used with heavier RV's.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"
"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600
2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable
2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD
Sorry you had trouble with your pinbox, OP.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB
Second Chance wrote:
The Andersen Ultimate is NOT a gooseneck - common misconception. From an engineering point of view, the forces on the pin box and trailer are the same as those with a conventional fifth wheel hitch. A gooseneck adds a long "lever" in the form of the gooseneck post which puts torsional forces on the pin box and twists it in a circular fashion. The Andersen does not do this.
Rob
minnow wrote:
LCI only recommends their Reese Goosebox if using a gooseneck ball. I imagine their response to a bent pin box and Andersen Hitch is "We told you so".
To the OP, are you going to have your pin box inspected to see if it needs replacement ?
LCI only recommends their Reese Goosebox if using a gooseneck ball. I imagine their response to a bent pin box and Andersen Hitch is "We told you so".
To the OP, are you going to have your pin box inspected to see if it needs replacement ?
The Andersen Ultimate is NOT a gooseneck - common misconception. From an engineering point of view, the forces on the pin box and trailer are the same as those with a conventional fifth wheel hitch. A gooseneck adds a long "lever" in the form of the gooseneck post which puts torsional forces on the pin box and twists it in a circular fashion. The Andersen does not do this.
Rob
Never said it was. I said it attaches to a gooseneck BALL.
Second Chance wrote:
The Andersen Ultimate is NOT a gooseneck - common misconception.
Rob
The Andersen Ultimate is NOT a gooseneck - common misconception.
Rob
If it is not a gooseneck, then it must be a ball and coupler hitch, which like other ball and couplers (and goosenecks) require safety chains in many states.
Personally, I don't see how this isn't happening to others when you think about it. Lot of force applied to a pretty small area when you get things rockin and rolling down the road. My pin weight is only around 3k, trailer loaded 14-14.5k with about 1k to go to my GVWR (base weight 12,000 with 2520 on the pin). I have done a lot of mountain road driving where the truck engine brake is straining to hold back the load. I would imagine that is where the dynamic loads are the highest on the pin. For the most part though the roads were pretty good. Shortly though I'm heading out to Seattle, and last time I drove through that area the roads were pretty rough.
Again, I think the question should be why aren't others having this issue? you have several thousand pounds of static weight riding on the end of two set screws. Then you in effect start pounding on the back of the screws as you drive down the road. It really isn't a very good design. Of course the energy is also getting transferred elsewhere, which is why I decided to purchase a suspension style pin box. I didn't have a bad ride or chucking to any extent, but at the same time, I'm hoping to prevent future problems in other areas in the process of taking care of my current hitch issue.
Now, how about constructive brainstorming type stuff and maybe figure out why my pin box failed and others haven't:
1. Is my pin weight maybe higher than most using this hitch?
2. Is it likely I'm driving on different types or roads?
3. Could the factory air suspension on my truck maybe be making the loads different somehow?
4. Bad batch of steel making my pin box exceptionally soft?
5. Problem possibly more common than thought and just not being reported?
Any constructive thoughts?
As far as your list of possibilities- could be one of them or a combination of them. Don't know how one would narrow it down.
You reported hearing a popping sound; I'd want to get that pinbox checked out to make sure that a weld hasn't let loose.
I'd keep after Andersen until I had some answers or money from them to repair the damage. They advertise the warranty so I'd make them put their wallet where their mouth is.
Me Again wrote:
If it is not a gooseneck, then it must be a ball and coupler hitch, which like other ball and couplers (and goosenecks) require safety chains in many states.
Second Chance wrote:
The Andersen Ultimate is NOT a gooseneck - common misconception.
Rob
The Andersen Ultimate is NOT a gooseneck - common misconception.
Rob
If it is not a gooseneck, then it must be a ball and coupler hitch, which like other ball and couplers (and goosenecks) require safety chains in many states.
You are correct. The eye bolt shown in the last picture in the OP's original post is where a chain attaches. There is a similar eye bolt on the other side.
06Fargo wrote:
Looks like the material around the king pin is so light it depends on a conventional 5th wheel hitch plate to prevent the failure and deflection of the pin we see in the picture. An upper plate with more thickness will withstand the more concentrated force of the Anderson adapter.
Looks like the material around the king pin is so light it depends on a conventional 5th wheel hitch plate to prevent the failure and deflection of the pin we see in the picture. An upper plate with more thickness will withstand the more concentrated force of the Anderson adapter.
exactly correct. The pin box would probably work at the rated 18k, 4.2k pin weight on a regular hitch. Andersen should have thought the design of the adapter through a little better. I really like the concept, and hope they are able to work the bugs out. Things I think need improving: Utilize the under bed pucks the new trucks have available. Design the adapter for better weight distribution, make a better system for the safety chains, I don't think the ones they have available would actually hold.
I did weigh my rig last year when I first got it, came in a little over 14k ready for camping, full fresh tank, 3rd+ on gray tanks and the black. Pin was a little under 3.2k, and I did the weighing coming back from a site with water available, but no dump site. Once I get the new pin box installed I'll load it up and weight again. I'm probably getting pretty tight on the limits of my SRW truck. Might result in my having to slim down the tools. I can't use the box I was using anyway as it doesn't fit with the B&W puck mount hitch.
Finally, for those asking about the popping, I was able to duplicate that while watching, and it was definitely caused by the hitch base slipping slightly on the floor of the truck. The hitch leaves a part of the spray in bed liner flattened and smooth. When it pops, you can see the base slip a very small distance, less than a quarter inch. Quite loud when it did it though. I must admit, initially I was looking in the wrong area as I suspected the hitch adapter as being the problem due to my having been a concern of mine for awhile now.
Searching_Ut wrote:
I haven't contacted lippert or heatland about this, but probably should. Dealer claims to have spoken to Andersen and had them say this is "normal" and not an issue. I tried to get specifics from them though and they kind of gave me a blank stare. I've personally contacted Andersen twice by e-mail, twice by phone, and sent them photos. No response to the e-mail, by phone they just said they'd get back to me.
Personally, I don't see how this isn't happening to others when you think about it. Lot of force applied to a pretty small area when you get things rockin and rolling down the road. My pin weight is only around 3k, trailer loaded 14-14.5k with about 1k to go to my GVWR (base weight 12,000 with 2520 on the pin). I have done a lot of mountain road driving where the truck engine brake is straining to hold back the load. I would imagine that is where the dynamic loads are the highest on the pin. For the most part though the roads were pretty good. Shortly though I'm heading out to Seattle, and last time I drove through that area the roads were pretty rough.
Again, I think the question should be why aren't others having this issue? you have several thousand pounds of static weight riding on the end of two set screws. Then you in effect start pounding on the back of the screws as you drive down the road. It really isn't a very good design. Of course the energy is also getting transferred elsewhere, which is why I decided to purchase a suspension style pin box. I didn't have a bad ride or chucking to any extent, but at the same time, I'm hoping to prevent future problems in other areas in the process of taking care of my current hitch issue.
Now, how about constructive brainstorming type stuff and maybe figure out why my pin box failed and others haven't:
1. Is my pin weight maybe higher than most using this hitch?
2. Is it likely I'm driving on different types or roads?
3. Could the factory air suspension on my truck maybe be making the loads different somehow?
4. Bad batch of steel making my pin box exceptionally soft?
5. Problem possibly more common than thought and just not being reported?
Any constructive thoughts?
I haven't contacted lippert or heatland about this, but probably should. Dealer claims to have spoken to Andersen and had them say this is "normal" and not an issue. I tried to get specifics from them though and they kind of gave me a blank stare. I've personally contacted Andersen twice by e-mail, twice by phone, and sent them photos. No response to the e-mail, by phone they just said they'd get back to me.
Personally, I don't see how this isn't happening to others when you think about it. Lot of force applied to a pretty small area when you get things rockin and rolling down the road. My pin weight is only around 3k, trailer loaded 14-14.5k with about 1k to go to my GVWR (base weight 12,000 with 2520 on the pin). I have done a lot of mountain road driving where the truck engine brake is straining to hold back the load. I would imagine that is where the dynamic loads are the highest on the pin. For the most part though the roads were pretty good. Shortly though I'm heading out to Seattle, and last time I drove through that area the roads were pretty rough.
Again, I think the question should be why aren't others having this issue? you have several thousand pounds of static weight riding on the end of two set screws. Then you in effect start pounding on the back of the screws as you drive down the road. It really isn't a very good design. Of course the energy is also getting transferred elsewhere, which is why I decided to purchase a suspension style pin box. I didn't have a bad ride or chucking to any extent, but at the same time, I'm hoping to prevent future problems in other areas in the process of taking care of my current hitch issue.
Now, how about constructive brainstorming type stuff and maybe figure out why my pin box failed and others haven't:
1. Is my pin weight maybe higher than most using this hitch?
2. Is it likely I'm driving on different types or roads?
3. Could the factory air suspension on my truck maybe be making the loads different somehow?
4. Bad batch of steel making my pin box exceptionally soft?
5. Problem possibly more common than thought and just not being reported?
Any constructive thoughts?
Your pinbox was not designed to have the load placed on such a small area.
minnow wrote:
I do now wonder if your fiver is too much for the Andersen. That's a pretty good pin weight you have.
I do now wonder if your fiver is too much for the Andersen. That's a pretty good pin weight you have.
His RV is WELL within Andersen's ratings. My OPINION is up to 12K RV is perfect for the Andersen.
'14 RAM CTD,Aisin,CC,DRW,4.10 Longhorn, LB
Aerotanks.com 70 gal underbed fuel tank.
Lifestyle LS36FW, Andersen Ultimate AL hitch
rskeans wrote:
This has been an interesting read. I tow 19,000 lbs with the Ultimate with zero problems. But I do have a rubber bed mat and a mor-ryde pin box. There seems to be some focus regarding a marginal pin box that has nothing to do with Andersen. I underestimated some RR tracks on an AZ highway last week and really bounced around my 5ver. Other than some broken stuff inside, furniture shifted, broken shelf with the DTV receiver, an MCD shade half off its brackets and a very angry DW, no other damage. Took a close look at the Andersen and all OK. So I can't help but believe that the OP's problems are not related to the Andersen.
This has been an interesting read. I tow 19,000 lbs with the Ultimate with zero problems. But I do have a rubber bed mat and a mor-ryde pin box. There seems to be some focus regarding a marginal pin box that has nothing to do with Andersen. I underestimated some RR tracks on an AZ highway last week and really bounced around my 5ver. Other than some broken stuff inside, furniture shifted, broken shelf with the DTV receiver, an MCD shade half off its brackets and a very angry DW, no other damage. Took a close look at the Andersen and all OK. So I can't help but believe that the OP's problems are not related to the Andersen.
So you are saying the Andersen should advise against using their hitch with the 1621 Lippert Pin Box? Or other similarly built pin boxes. Chris
* This post was edited 10/02/16 07:55am by Me Again *
2018 Ram 3500 CC LB DRW 4X4 Cummins Aisin Laramie Pearl White
2018 Landmark Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4
2014 NauticStar 21 ShallowBay 150HP Yamaha
2016 GoDevil 18X44 35HP Surface Drive
Me Again wrote:
So you are saying the Andersen should advise against using their hitch with the 1621 Lippert Pin Box? Or other similarly built pin boxes. Chris
rskeans wrote:
This has been an interesting read. I tow 19,000 lbs with the Ultimate with zero problems. But I do have a rubber bed mat and a mor-ryde pin box. There seems to be some focus regarding a marginal pin box that has nothing to do with Andersen. I underestimated some RR tracks on an AZ highway last week and really bounced around my 5ver. Other than some broken stuff inside, furniture shifted, broken shelf with the DTV receiver, an MCD shade half off its brackets and a very angry DW, no other damage. Took a close look at the Andersen and all OK. So I can't help but believe that the OP's problems are not related to the Andersen.
This has been an interesting read. I tow 19,000 lbs with the Ultimate with zero problems. But I do have a rubber bed mat and a mor-ryde pin box. There seems to be some focus regarding a marginal pin box that has nothing to do with Andersen. I underestimated some RR tracks on an AZ highway last week and really bounced around my 5ver. Other than some broken stuff inside, furniture shifted, broken shelf with the DTV receiver, an MCD shade half off its brackets and a very angry DW, no other damage. Took a close look at the Andersen and all OK. So I can't help but believe that the OP's problems are not related to the Andersen.
So you are saying the Andersen should advise against using their hitch with the 1621 Lippert Pin Box? Or other similarly built pin boxes. Chris
I'm not advising anything. Just a statement of observation. The reader can draw their own conclusion.
TxGearhead wrote:
If you are concerned about the integrity of the pinbox and hitch I would talk to a welding/fab shop. See if they would do a NDT on the welds. Probably could wet mag all of it if you don't mind paint removal on the pinbox.
If you are concerned about the integrity of the pinbox and hitch I would talk to a welding/fab shop. See if they would do a NDT on the welds. Probably could wet mag all of it if you don't mind paint removal on the pinbox.
Actually, I don't need any NDI testing as I can see issues in a couple areas already visually, and have already decided to change the pin box. It would have been accomplished already, but I ordered one based on a phone call to hearland because the trailer was still at dealer. Heartland said I had a 1621, so I called e-trailer and ordered the 5th airborne that replaces the 1621. (16k Rating). Unfortunately, when I got the trailer back and pulled the shroud it's a 1621HD so I had ordered the bigger pin box. Stupidity on my part I know, and it will cost me shipping both ways.
I am concerned that the dealer chose to say the pin box was useable and chose not to pursue it further. I'm also upset that they also dinged the front corner with the forklift setup they used to move it. Trip to the dealer to look at pin box amongst other issues resulted in replaced hitch adapter, dinged corner of pin box, and a damaged pin box shroud which they ordered. They did own up and even showed me the new adapter they made to tow Andersen equipped rigs with.
As for using the Andersen adapter with a 1621 pin box, I personally don't recommend it and find myself wondering why only one other trailer I looked at with the adapter installed showed similar damage (It was a Mor-ryde pin box). So far I've been lucky with this rig and haven't hit anything bump wise that has re-arranged the insides of the trailer. I do tow on fairly steep hills from time to time, steep enough that even the exhaust brake on my Ram, which is pretty good, isn't enough to hold things in check. Obviously the pin weight would be a lot higher in this situation and the dynamic loads (pounding) would be quite a bit higher.
Again, for me the Andersen is no longer an option. Neither my trailer, or truck are a good choice for use with this hitch. I am disappointed by that however as a light easily removed and installed hitch is something that would fit me great. That said, my new B&W is easily as quick and simple to install, maybe even easier. Other than the weight, it's a fantastic hitch, obviously much more solidly built. Weight wise it's still inside the realms of what I can lift myself, but with several ruptured disks already, and age creeping up on me it's more that I probably should be lifting.
Every single hitch out there will or has had some sort of failure. The Andersen is no different. There is no hitch that works universally for everyone. That's why there are dozens of hitch manufacturers who all tout their hitch is the best one.
* This post was edited 10/02/16 02:30pm by minnow *
WTP-GC wrote:
I'm moreover convinced that the OP has/had a bad pinbox. As I've said before, with the design of the adapter, there's a significant a out of force against the kingpin. The flat plate underside of the pin box could not have failed in this manner unless the kingpin bent (which is confirmed by the pictures). With all that we know about how poorly trailer frames are constructed, it would not be out of the question to consider that the pin box was also poorly done.
I'm moreover convinced that the OP has/had a bad pinbox. As I've said before, with the design of the adapter, there's a significant a out of force against the kingpin. The flat plate underside of the pin box could not have failed in this manner unless the kingpin bent (which is confirmed by the pictures). With all that we know about how poorly trailer frames are constructed, it would not be out of the question to consider that the pin box was also poorly done.
I don't think it's a "bad" pinbox, but it =is= bad for this application, where the load is highly concentrated on just a few square inches instead of over a much larger area with a conventional FW hitch. I think it's something that Andersen really needs to address, given that the OP has seen similar deforming on a MorRyde hitch. Also, we're talking about an LCI component which I think many of us would agree is marginally built from the get-go, even for a standard hitch.
Lyle
2022 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Denali Crew Cab 4x4 Duramax
B&W OEM Companion & Gooseneck Kit
2017 KZ Durango 1500 D277RLT
1936 John Deere Model A
International Flying Farmers 64 Year Member
One would think that Andersen did a Finite Element Analysis on their hitches. That should replicate most loads the hitch will see and reveal any weaknesses. It's expensive but if I were putting my name on it....
WTP-GC wrote:
I'm moreover convinced that the OP has/had a bad pinbox. As I've said before, with the design of the adapter, there's a significant a out of force against the kingpin. The flat plate underside of the pin box could not have failed in this manner unless the kingpin bent (which is confirmed by the pictures). With all that we know about how poorly trailer frames are constructed, it would not be out of the question to consider that the pin box was also poorly done.
I'm moreover convinced that the OP has/had a bad pinbox. As I've said before, with the design of the adapter, there's a significant a out of force against the kingpin. The flat plate underside of the pin box could not have failed in this manner unless the kingpin bent (which is confirmed by the pictures). With all that we know about how poorly trailer frames are constructed, it would not be out of the question to consider that the pin box was also poorly done.
The "kingpin" did not bend, not really possible.
TxGearhead wrote:
I'm with you on the back issues. I had 2 fusions and now a piece of titanium in my neck. I bought a Harbor Freight engine puller to get my Curt Q20 out of the truck.
One would think that Andersen did a Finite Element Analysis on their hitches. That should replicate most loads the hitch will see and reveal any weaknesses. It's expensive but if I were putting my name on it....
I'm with you on the back issues. I had 2 fusions and now a piece of titanium in my neck. I bought a Harbor Freight engine puller to get my Curt Q20 out of the truck.
One would think that Andersen did a Finite Element Analysis on their hitches. That should replicate most loads the hitch will see and reveal any weaknesses. It's expensive but if I were putting my name on it....
They did the "crush test".
2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up
smkettner wrote:
I like the idea of Andersen. Hate to read a thread like this as I plan to have this hitch with my next RV. Andersen may need to start building pin boxes and skip the adapter.
I like the idea of Andersen. Hate to read a thread like this as I plan to have this hitch with my next RV. Andersen may need to start building pin boxes and skip the adapter.
Actually, I think a socket type pin box would be a great idea, the ball hitch is much simpler, with far less moving parts than standard 5er hitches. It really wouldn't be hard for andersen to build a hitch adapter that distributed the weight better. Ultimate setup would probably be to design a different baseplate for something like the mor-ryde hitch which I would think would be quite the setup. It's already rumored that they are working on something that would fit factory puck setups, which would be highly desirable as well. Seeing just how much bed flex I was getting when backing up soft gravel while sorting out my popping was kind of concerning. Over long periods of time that would probably lead to issues.
Thanks!
Cummins12V98 wrote:
The "kingpin" did not bend, not really possible.
The "kingpin" did not bend, not really possible.
The metal support structure bent, which allowed the kingpin to be re-aligned. Last picture confirms this.
* This post was edited 10/03/16 12:30pm by an administrator/moderator *
smkettner wrote:
I like the idea of Andersen. Hate to read a thread like this as I plan to have this hitch with my next RV. Andersen may need to start building pin boxes and skip the adapter.
I like the idea of Andersen. Hate to read a thread like this as I plan to have this hitch with my next RV. Andersen may need to start building pin boxes and skip the adapter.
Don't let this thread derail your plans. This incident is only the 2nd reported case of failure most anyone is aware of. The critics will claim that there are a few more, but over the course of nearly 20,000 units sold, that's not bad.
WTP-GC wrote:
The metal support structure bent, which allowed the kingpin to be re-aligned. Last picture confirms this.
Cummins12V98 wrote:
The "kingpin" did not bend, not really possible.
The "kingpin" did not bend, not really possible.
The metal support structure bent, which allowed the kingpin to be re-aligned. Last picture confirms this.
I stated FACT! Last picture confirms what I said. The exact same kingpin is used on Semi trailers.
* This post was edited 10/03/16 12:39pm by an administrator/moderator *
jerem0621 wrote:
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
It also has a much more realistic rating.
Me Again wrote:
So everyone that has had a problem came here and reported it?
So everyone that has had a problem came here and reported it?
Why is this always the response of the critics??
So since two people came here and reported it, we should condemn the entirety of the product?
There's been 1 reported case that I'm aware of where (under uncertain conditions) the Andersen hitch base bent. And now, there's been 1 reported case where an RV frame component deformed.
Cummins12V98 wrote:
It also has a much more realistic rating.
jerem0621 wrote:
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
It also has a much more realistic rating.
Based upon.....??????
Potential ideas to finish the above sentence:
1. eye test
2. actual engineering information
3. the fact that its made by PullRite
4. the fact that its not made by Andersen
5. product history
6. its prettier
7. they didn't do a crush test
WTP-GC wrote:
Based upon.....??????
Potential ideas to finish the above sentence:
1. eye test
2. actual engineering information
3. the fact that its made by PullRite
4. the fact that its not made by Andersen
5. product history
6. its prettier
7. they didn't do a crush test
Cummins12V98 wrote:
It also has a much more realistic rating.
jerem0621 wrote:
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
It also has a much more realistic rating.
Based upon.....??????
Potential ideas to finish the above sentence:
1. eye test
2. actual engineering information
3. the fact that its made by PullRite
4. the fact that its not made by Andersen
5. product history
6. its prettier
7. they didn't do a crush test
Its unfortunate that the OP had a problem with another cheap component on a fifth wheel. Sounds like that pin box could use a couple vertical braces in the hitch area, regardless of what type of hitch, those pin boxes should not be bending.
As far as damaging the bed, shims would have prevented that. B&W caused the same damage to beds until shims were added.
A gooseneck hitch would most likely do the same thing to that pin box, it would depend on how much area the gooseneck hitch sat on .
Its futile to try and defend a product when the forum experts have spoken, although they have never owned or used the Andersen.
Its like people dropping their fifth wheels with a B&W fifth wheel hitch, it happens ,but you read from the fan club here its impossible, but yet it happens. IMO the B&W fifth wheel hitch has a design flaw allowing the jaws to be locked open, its proven thats been the cause of dropped fifth wheels. Is it still a quality hitch, yes.
Searching_Ut wrote:
Actually, I think a socket type pin box would be a great idea, the ball hitch is much simpler, with far less moving parts than standard 5er hitches. It really wouldn't be hard for andersen to build a hitch adapter that distributed the weight better. Ultimate setup would probably be to design a different baseplate for something like the mor-ryde hitch which I would think would be quite the setup. It's already rumored that they are working on something that would fit factory puck setups, which would be highly desirable as well. Seeing just how much bed flex I was getting when backing up soft gravel while sorting out my popping was kind of concerning. Over long periods of time that would probably lead to issues.
smkettner wrote:
I like the idea of Andersen. Hate to read a thread like this as I plan to have this hitch with my next RV. Andersen may need to start building pin boxes and skip the adapter.
I like the idea of Andersen. Hate to read a thread like this as I plan to have this hitch with my next RV. Andersen may need to start building pin boxes and skip the adapter.
Actually, I think a socket type pin box would be a great idea, the ball hitch is much simpler, with far less moving parts than standard 5er hitches. It really wouldn't be hard for andersen to build a hitch adapter that distributed the weight better. Ultimate setup would probably be to design a different baseplate for something like the mor-ryde hitch which I would think would be quite the setup. It's already rumored that they are working on something that would fit factory puck setups, which would be highly desirable as well. Seeing just how much bed flex I was getting when backing up soft gravel while sorting out my popping was kind of concerning. Over long periods of time that would probably lead to issues.
I don't think its a rumor, I emailed Andersen awhile back, yes they said they are coming out with the factory puck setup in Feb 2017 .
Unfortuneatly your troubles started with a cheaply made pin box that shouldn't have bent in the first place regardless of the hitch. IMO thats the last place they should be skimping on quality.
The bed may be just superficial ,but could have been avoided with shims, pretty much documented same as the B&W ball mount hitch .
Great thread on the Cummins forum about the Andersen, many many owners towing large heavy fifth wheels ,and toy haulers with no issues.
The Andersen is a great hitch used within their weight rating, but my opinion holds just about as much weight as the critics do, not owning or using one.
No failure has occurred with an Andersen hitch. Although B&W owners have dropped their fifth wheels, maybe a design flaw with jaws locked open., but mostly operator error.
WTP-GC wrote:
Why is this always the response of the critics??
So since two people came here and reported it, we should condemn the entirety of the product?
There's been 1 reported case that I'm aware of where (under uncertain conditions) the Andersen hitch base bent. And now, there's been 1 reported case where an RV frame component deformed.
Me Again wrote:
So everyone that has had a problem came here and reported it?
So everyone that has had a problem came here and reported it?
Why is this always the response of the critics??
So since two people came here and reported it, we should condemn the entirety of the product?
There's been 1 reported case that I'm aware of where (under uncertain conditions) the Andersen hitch base bent. And now, there's been 1 reported case where an RV frame component deformed.
And in the first instance, it was the first design of the hitch. The revised hitch now has additional supporting steel.
In this day of the Internet with all of the RV, truck specific forums, Facebook, etc, one could reasonably expect to have read of a lot more incidents if there were more failures.
Like I previously wrote, every single hitch will have its problems for a variety of reasons. For someone however to base an opinion on 2 reported issues is not fair or reasonable. One should purchase the hitch of their choosing. If what another guy buys is not to your liking, then that's ok and that's where it should end.
minnow wrote:
Like I previously wrote, every single hitch will have its problems for a variety of reasons. For someone however to base an opinion on 2 reported issues is not fair or reasonable.
Like I previously wrote, every single hitch will have its problems for a variety of reasons. For someone however to base an opinion on 2 reported issues is not fair or reasonable.
I have 5 safety recall notices for my 2014 RAM hanging on my bulletin board. I've heard complaints about bad interiors on these trucks. Maybe I'll find another truck.
Ford had a real bad run with that 6.0 PSD, lots of problems. In order to work on the 6.4 and 6.7, removal of the cab is almost a necessity. Seems like a lot of work. Maybe I'll find another truck.
If I've heard one complaint about the DEF system on the duramax engines, I've heard 1000. Maybe I'll find another truck.
I hear that the Tundra can pull a space shuttle...
WTP-GC wrote:
Based upon.....??????
Potential ideas to finish the above sentence:
1. eye test
2. actual engineering information
3. the fact that its made by PullRite
4. the fact that its not made by Andersen
5. product history
6. its prettier
7. they didn't do a crush test
Cummins12V98 wrote:
It also has a much more realistic rating.
jerem0621 wrote:
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
I think that the PullRite Superlite may be the better engineered design. At the very least the king pin adaptor looks like it covers much more surface area.
Thanks!
It also has a much more realistic rating.
Based upon.....??????
Potential ideas to finish the above sentence:
1. eye test
2. actual engineering information
3. the fact that its made by PullRite
4. the fact that its not made by Andersen
5. product history
6. its prettier
7. they didn't do a crush test
OPPS I forgot to add "IMHO".
My humble opinion was correct since they re designed the Ultimate. I also said the hitch would/could dent the bed. I saw first hand of that recently.
I will REPEAT the ANDERSEN is a QUALITY product that IMHO is rated too high as another example has been shown by the OP.
Barney