Some specific details about my setup: Loaded for full timing, my TC is very close to my rear axle weight limit. With some tweaks to the truck, it drives just fine. Adding a 4 foot supertruss/non wd hitch/tongue weight of a 7 x 12 tandem axle cargo(250lbs) trailer causes the truck to have light steering over certain kinds of bumps. By adding the wd hitch, I am sure I can remove some of the tongue weight from the rear axle but it seems like I should be able to do more as the cargo trailer is way under it's weight limits.
This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.
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Perhaps you could provide us with some detail of the truck and camper and some actual weights on your three or four axles so we can help you?
I was able to load my truck camper and tow a 20' enclosed with 18" OEM wheels while staying under tire and rim capacity by distributing 1/3rd of my tongue weight to the front axle and 1/3rd back to the trailer, but I had to be careful how I loaded the camper and trailer to minimize rear axle weight. Never did I crank my WDH up so high to actually unload camper weight off the rear axle. I ended up going to 19.5" wheels that had more capacity and was able to stay under axle ratings without having to play load master on each trip we took to stay safe.
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I don't have much experience with wdh setups but what I believe will happen is first you'll crank up the bars to take the 250lbs of tongue weight off. Then any additional weight transfer by putting more tension on the bars will begin to help unload camper weight, at the expense of negative tongue weight and trying to rip the tongue off the hitch.
There's no magic answer to your situation.
Now your concept may work, conceptually with a "trailer" that is really just a short load carrying dolly and a hitch that's designed for significant uplift. Like a booster axle on the back of a mixer truck except with a single point of attachment.
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stevenal wrote:
To overcompensate for the tongue weight, you'll end up with continuous upward force at the ball which I'm not sure a hitch is designed for.
To overcompensate for the tongue weight, you'll end up with continuous upward force at the ball which I'm not sure a hitch is designed for.
Are you sure about this? This might help you figure it out.
![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/eE9dRVE.png)
Wayne
Reddog1 wrote:
Interesting photo.
Interesting photo.
Yeah, not good if they pull off.
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stevenal wrote:
To overcompensate for the tongue weight, you'll end up with continuous upward force at the ball which I'm not sure a hitch is designed for. Suggest running this by Torklift.
To overcompensate for the tongue weight, you'll end up with continuous upward force at the ball which I'm not sure a hitch is designed for. Suggest running this by Torklift.
Edit - Removed erroneous comments agreeing with the concept above. Don't want to confuse the issue.
* This post was edited 09/28/16 05:09am by KimandChris *
My point is that there is NOT any up force on the ball when you use WD or even excessive WD.
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KimandChris wrote:
Somebody please check my thinking here.... I believe adding a weight distribution hitch to my truck camper/cargo trailer setup will help move some of my TC weight from my rear truck axle and redistribute it to the front axle and my trailer. I cannot find any documentation to confirm this as it all seems to be written concerning just the tongue weight of the trailer. In my mind, there should be no difference in tongue weight and load on the rear axle as to what weight is redistributed...true? In the end, I am thinking I could safely redistribute MORE than the tongue weight.
Some specific details about my setup: Loaded for full timing, my TC is very close to my rear axle weight limit. With some tweaks to the truck, it drives just fine. Adding a 4 foot supertruss/non wd hitch/tongue weight of a 7 x 12 tandem axle cargo(250lbs) trailer causes the truck to have light steering over certain kinds of bumps. By adding the wd hitch, I am sure I can remove some of the tongue weight from the rear axle but it seems like I should be able to do more as the cargo trailer is way under it's weight limits.
Somebody please check my thinking here.... I believe adding a weight distribution hitch to my truck camper/cargo trailer setup will help move some of my TC weight from my rear truck axle and redistribute it to the front axle and my trailer. I cannot find any documentation to confirm this as it all seems to be written concerning just the tongue weight of the trailer. In my mind, there should be no difference in tongue weight and load on the rear axle as to what weight is redistributed...true? In the end, I am thinking I could safely redistribute MORE than the tongue weight.
Some specific details about my setup: Loaded for full timing, my TC is very close to my rear axle weight limit. With some tweaks to the truck, it drives just fine. Adding a 4 foot supertruss/non wd hitch/tongue weight of a 7 x 12 tandem axle cargo(250lbs) trailer causes the truck to have light steering over certain kinds of bumps. By adding the wd hitch, I am sure I can remove some of the tongue weight from the rear axle but it seems like I should be able to do more as the cargo trailer is way under it's weight limits.
This is a question I had when I was designing my hitch extension so I took my truck and trailer to the weigh scales and recorded the weight with different loading on the W/D hitch.
![[image]](http://www.visualsc.com/wd_hitch_loading.png)
As you can see, I weighted the rig with no tension on the W/D hitch, then with 75% loading on the pull-up chains and then with 100% pull-up.
- The front axle went from 4321 lbs to 4601 for a total increase of 280 lbs.
- The rear axle dropped from 4982 lbs to 4557 lbs for a total decrease of 425 lbs.
- The trailer axles increased from 4674 lbs to 4819 lbs for an increase of 145 lbs.
On the subject of the effect at the hitch/receiver itself. The weight distribution hitch has the effect of reducing the torque on the receiver from any extension....or in other words, as you tighten the W/D hitch up, it reduces the effective hitch weight acting on your receiver. It also increases the loading on the ball itself (downward force).
Hope this answers your question. In my opinion, unless your tongue weight is very low, you should always use a W/D with any extension over about 18".
* This post was edited 09/27/16 11:09am by bjbear *
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1. Wheelbase of tow vehicle
2. Distance of hitch to rear tow vehicle axle
3. Distance of hitch to trailer axle(s)
4. Level of tow vehicle and trailer
5. Amount of force exerted at weight distribution hitch
I was able to get near even balance of hitch weight on the front & rear truck axles and trailer axles with my F250. My 5500 loads the front truck axle less and trailer axles more using the same trailer, WDH and extension with only the first two measurements changed.
My question is what happens when you distribute MORE than the tongue weight without going over the limit of any of your components? I am looking to redistribute (at least) the weight of the truss/hitch to get my handling back to what it was without the trailer/truss/hitch attached. If I can also save some TC weight off my rear axle, that would not be a bad thing. Seems as I have plenty of room to transfer another 300 lbs and still only be at half of what TL recommends.
Was looking more at the concept, but to put real #s to it...
5500# cargo capacity for the truck, not sure of the distribution per axle, but for arguments sake, lets say I am not close to the limits of any of the components.
5000# of cargo(including myself/wife/dogs)
200# 48" TL truss and wd hitch, 1200# limit on supertruss.
2000# cargo in dual axle cargo trailer, capacity of 4000#
250# tongue weight
If I use the above #s and transfer 500# from the rear axle (300 to front axle and 200 to trailer???)with the wd hitch, rather than 'just' the 250# tongue weight, it should be an overall improvement....agreed?
KimandChris wrote:
Many of these responses are still referring to redistributing just the tongue weight.............
My question is what happens when you distribute MORE than the tongue weight without going over the limit of any of your components?...........................
5500# cargo capacity for the truck.............
5000# of cargo(including myself/wife/dogs)
200# 48" TL truss and wd hitch, 1200# limit on supertruss.
2000# cargo in dual axle cargo trailer, capacity of 4000#
250# tongue weight
If I use the above #s and transfer 500# from the rear axle (300 to front axle and 200 to trailer???)with the wd hitch, rather than 'just' the 250# tongue weight, it should be an overall improvement....agreed?
Many of these responses are still referring to redistributing just the tongue weight.............
My question is what happens when you distribute MORE than the tongue weight without going over the limit of any of your components?...........................
5500# cargo capacity for the truck.............
5000# of cargo(including myself/wife/dogs)
200# 48" TL truss and wd hitch, 1200# limit on supertruss.
2000# cargo in dual axle cargo trailer, capacity of 4000#
250# tongue weight
If I use the above #s and transfer 500# from the rear axle (300 to front axle and 200 to trailer???)with the wd hitch, rather than 'just' the 250# tongue weight, it should be an overall improvement....agreed?
I think your answer is in the previous posts, but maybe I can help explain it another way.
There is only one real adjustment on a W/D hitch system to transfer weight. That is the connection between the hitch torque bars and the trailer frame/tongue. You are limited by how tight/short that connection can be by the design of the hitch. For example, mine uses chains so I can connect to almost every link and move more or less weight from the rear axle to the front axle and trailer axles. (Note: tightening the torque bars past a certain limit may affect your ability to turn tightly without binding)
How much weight you actually transfer to each axle, depends on the dimensions of your truck & trailer. Each of the following will affect the transfer:
- Truck Wheelbase
- Distance from rear axle to receiver
- Hitch extension length
- Distance from trailer coupling to trailer axle(s)
So you are correct in your concept to move more than the nominal tongue weight to the front & trailer axles. However, how successful you will be depends on the factors above.
The way to proceed in my opinion, is to hook up your rig with the W/D torque bars pulled up as tight as possible without affecting your ability to turn a tight corner and then road test it to find if that is enough to improve the ride the way you are looking for.
And one poster was correct in that as you tighten up the W/D hitch, you change how the load is applied to the receiver, potentially changing the front mounts from compression to stress/strain. However, in my opinion, I would suggest that your will run into the limit of pull-up on your W/D torque bars before you exceed the design limits of the receiver.
Please let us know what you find when you do this as it will be interesting to get some more data for future reference.
stevenal wrote:
To overcompensate for the tongue weight, you'll end up with continuous upward force at the ball which I'm not sure a hitch is designed for. Suggest running this by Torklift.
To overcompensate for the tongue weight, you'll end up with continuous upward force at the ball which I'm not sure a hitch is designed for. Suggest running this by Torklift.
I stand corrected by others.
Bedlam stated it better:
Bedlam wrote:
You are now putting a constant upward force on components designed for downward force. I'm not sure the trailer tongue or truck receiver were engineered for negative weight.
You are now putting a constant upward force on components designed for downward force. I'm not sure the trailer tongue or truck receiver were engineered for negative weight.
I think it is really a moment you are applying to the trailer tongue, with forces pushing up on the coupler and down at the bar attachments. My question is how much moment can be applied before the tongue bends.
Someone correct me here if I'm still all wet, but a wd hitch doesn't appear to actually take pressure off the trailer tongue to hitch ball connection, but rather it's pulling down on the trailer tongue/hitch and leveraging it, at the hitch ball location to pick up the back of the truck. Effectively putting more downforce on the tongue to hitch ball connection.
If that's really what's going on, then yes it seems plausible to say put an oversize wd hitch cranked up to more than just the tongue weight of the trailer. Trailer is stil planted solidly on the ball.
Idk about other unintended consequences towing like this, but seems worth a shot.
Another question is how much bending force upward can you put on the truss extension? Would think the same as it's designed for in the opposite direction.
Grit dog wrote:
Maybe I was looking st this all wrong.
Someone correct me here if I'm still all wet, but a wd hitch doesn't appear to actually take pressure off the trailer tongue to hitch ball connection, but rather it's pulling down on the trailer tongue/hitch and leveraging it, at the hitch ball location to pick up the back of the truck. Effectively putting more downforce on the tongue to hitch ball connection.
If that's really what's going on, then yes it seems plausible to say put an oversize wd hitch cranked up to more than just the tongue weight of the trailer. Trailer is stil planted solidly on the ball.
Idk about other unintended consequences towing like this, but seems worth a shot.
Another question is how much bending force upward can you put on the truss extension? Would think the same as it's designed for in the opposite direction.
Maybe I was looking st this all wrong.
Someone correct me here if I'm still all wet, but a wd hitch doesn't appear to actually take pressure off the trailer tongue to hitch ball connection, but rather it's pulling down on the trailer tongue/hitch and leveraging it, at the hitch ball location to pick up the back of the truck. Effectively putting more downforce on the tongue to hitch ball connection.
If that's really what's going on, then yes it seems plausible to say put an oversize wd hitch cranked up to more than just the tongue weight of the trailer. Trailer is stil planted solidly on the ball.
Idk about other unintended consequences towing like this, but seems worth a shot.
Another question is how much bending force upward can you put on the truss extension? Would think the same as it's designed for in the opposite direction.
You are correct. The torque bars on the W/D hitch maintain a substantial force pulling the ball and trailer connector together. They also have the effect of lifting up the back of the truck taking weight off the rear axle and pushing some of it to the front axle with the balance to the trailer axle.
I put together a quick drawing that helped me put it all into perspective....
![[image]](http://www.visualsc.com/WD_hitch_illustration.png)
Case 1 and 2 are actual measurements I took on my truck and trailer as I explained in a previous post.
Case 3 is calculated from the real data, taking the W/D hitch to the EXTREME to pick up all the tongue weight plus more as per the original post. It shows what would happen theoretically if you could adjust the W/D hitch enough. In my case, and I suspect with all other hitches, I was not able to make the adjustment necessary to achieve this as Case 2 is the practical maximum.
Even in case 3, if you could find a hitch that would do this, the upward force is quite low and the extension and receiver would have no trouble handling it.
I should also point out that we have only been talking about static loads where the rig is not moving. Where a W/D hitch adds real benefit is handling the dynamic loads when you are driving. As you go over bumps in the road and your rig bounces, the torque bars on the W/D hitch flex and resist movement. This greatly decreases the loading on your extension and is why I always use my W/D hitch to limit stress on my rig. If you look at the Torklift SuperTruss, their 48" extension will handle 600 lbs tongue weight, but if you use a W/D hitch, that limit increases to 1200 lbs.
* This post was edited 09/28/16 02:55pm by bjbear *
bjbear wrote:
Where a W/D hitch adds real benefit is handling the dynamic loads when you are driving. As you go over bumps in the road and your rig bounces, the torque bars on the W/D hitch flex and resist movement. This greatly decreases the loading on your extension and is why I always use my W/D hitch to limit stress on my rig. If you look at the Torklift SuperTruss, their 48" extension will handle 600 lbs tongue weight, but if you use a W/D hitch, that limit increases to 1200 lbs.
Where a W/D hitch adds real benefit is handling the dynamic loads when you are driving. As you go over bumps in the road and your rig bounces, the torque bars on the W/D hitch flex and resist movement. This greatly decreases the loading on your extension and is why I always use my W/D hitch to limit stress on my rig. If you look at the Torklift SuperTruss, their 48" extension will handle 600 lbs tongue weight, but if you use a W/D hitch, that limit increases to 1200 lbs.
This is exactly what started me down this path. I don't know about limiting load on the extension, as the load does not disappear. I do believe some of the dynamic load will be transferred to the front axle, which will help with steering which is what I need.
I think we are all in agreement now that it is ok to redistribute more than the tongue weight. Would be interesting to see which component failed first if too much tension is put on the bars. Hope not to find out.....
Thanks for the input, I will update this thread if/when I get to a scale and can get some real weights and some real world experience.
That should be a sticky thread on here. Would help a lot of folks understand.