Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: Ram integrated brake control

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Topic: Ram integrated brake control

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/18/16 04:06pm

So we have our new 2016 3500 Ram Turbo diesel and we are wondering how many other Ram owners are having this issue.

We picked up our trailer the other day and when using the brakes it feels as if they are barley working.

We hooked up at the dealership and did the pull test. They barely held the trailer in place. I put it as I had them to low while doing the pull test.

So we started down the road at 6 and at the first couple spots it seemed the trailer was pushing us. So we adjusted. Well by the time we reached the highway we were at 8.5 and still feeling as if being pushed.
By the time we got home we were at 10 and still nothing.

So we did some research and found several other people complaining of this and installing an after market controller. We purchased a Teksonsha P3. Hoping this works

Anyone else notice this issue and if so what have you done to try and work around it.

2016 Ram 3500 4x4 Big Horn Crew Cab, SRW. Cummins Turbo Diesel Automatic 68RFE Trans
50 gallon diesel Transfer Flow tank with the Traxx 3 system.
2017 Sierra FLIK 5th Wheel
42' Front Livingroom, 15K
Hydraulic level up system

Posted By: TNrob on 08/18/16 04:14pm

You have it set for heavy trailer? Mine works well on light trailer, at about 8.5. Pulling only 6000 or so pounds.

2016 Ram 2500 so i'm guessing the brake control is the same unit. Everything I've seen is that the issue is with heavier trailers, and simply not enough signal to the brakes. If I spot a suggested solution I'll toss it to you.

Posted By: donn0128 on 08/18/16 04:23pm

Before installing aftermarket, be sure the trailers brakes are properly adjusted. I know even with my Prodigy if my trailers brakes are not right I get the samemproblem.

Posted By: IdaD on 08/18/16 04:28pm

Set it for heavy electric over hydraulic and it'll solve the problem. I had to have the gain cranked up pretty good on my trailer when the IBC was on heavy electric and felt like it wasn't overly strong, but when I set it to HEOH I had to back the gain way off because there was way too much trailer braking.

2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB

Posted By: MudChucker on 08/18/16 04:29pm

Go into your settings and change the brake setting to heavy electric, also do t forget to adjust the gain.

My integrated works as well as my p3 and tekonsha controllers.

2017 Cougar
2015 Ram 3500 Megacab 6.7 Cummins Aisin transmission

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/18/16 04:57pm

Why would you post this AFTER you bought the P-3????

I assume you did not set to heavy hydraulic or heave electric???

2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Posted By: minnow on 08/18/16 05:45pm

To the OP, you are not the only one out there with this issue. From what I've read on some of the Ram forums, there is a software issue with some of the IBC controllers where the full 12 volts is not being sent to the trailer brakes. The issue is especially apparent to those towing heavier RV's. If after playing around with the Ram IBC settings and not getting the issue resolved, you may next need to check your trailer brakes. Check to see the brakes are adjusted properly and make sure there is no grease on the pads. Lippert, who makes most of the frames/axle assemblies have had issues with grease leaking past the seals. If all that checks out and changing the IBC settings hasn't improved things, I'd probably just go ahead and install the Prodigy. Last I've heard Ram is aware of the issue but has not released a fix.

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/18/16 05:53pm

My truck is set for heavy electric.
Didn't think to try the heavy over hydraulic.

I bought it today and have not installed it as it is being shipped so have time. Not like I can't return it if an actual cure arises.

The IBC on my 2012 ram worked great but I have not seen anyone with a heavy trailer say it works correctly.

It does work with my 33' ATV trailer but that doesn't weigh much loaded or unloaded.
Owner new trailer tips in at about 15k

The brakes are adjusted properly we checked them, sorry didn't list that in original.

Thank you TNrob.

Posted By: Searching_Ut on 08/18/16 06:37pm

One of the easiest things you can do to see what is going on is have a friend with a hitch equipped truck hook your rig up to their truck and see what happens. I hooked up to my neighbors ford and the trailer brakes worked great. With my truck using the factory IBC they're all but worthless. I don't personally know anyone happy with the newer RAM IBC, but unfortunately, Chrysler doesn't seem to be willing to address the issue.

2015 Ram 3500 Laramie CTD, 4X4, AISIN, B&W Companion Puck Mount
2016 Heartland Bighorn 3270RS, 1kw solar with Trimetric and dual SC2030, 600 watt and 2k inverters.

Posted By: Threebigfords on 08/18/16 07:38pm

I'm no electrician, but it would be interesting to see what the output at the 7 prong connector was on the trucks that have problems vs those that don't.

Maybe a few of you could get some voltage/amperage readings and compare?

15' Ford F450 4x4 Platinum Bronze Fire Metallic
17' Ford Explorer Platinum 3.5 Ecoboost Ruby Red Metallic
78' F250 SC LB 4x4 - highly modified

2003 Weekend Warrior FS2600 toyhauler and the toys to fill it
1997 10' Northland Grizzly 990 Ext Cab

Posted By: Calicajun on 08/18/16 08:09pm

My 2500 CTD with OEM break controller works fine stopping our 7200 lbs TT.

2014 Heartland Wildness 2775RB, 2015 Ram 2500 4x4 Mega Cab

Posted By: whjco on 08/18/16 08:36pm

I have a 2015 2500 Ram Big Horn 6.7 and my trailer control works great - as good or better than the Tekonsha Prodigy I had on my Excursion. I pull two different trailers, a 7500# RV and a 9500# car trailer and have set up the brakes for each trailer and stored them in two of the four memories. I did have to adjust the trailer gain for each trailer and, once properly adjusted, the brakes work great on both trailers.

Bill J., Lexington, KY

Bill J., Lexington, KY
2006 Starcraft 2500RKS 25' Travel Trailer
2015 Ram 2500 Big Horn 6.7 Cummins.

Posted By: Searching_Ut on 08/18/16 09:04pm

Threebigfords wrote:

To look at the output, you need an oscilloscope or high end multimeter that will measure duty cycle, or pulse width of the pulse width modulated output of the IBC. They max out at a pulse width of approximately 67 percent, which results in approximately 2/3rd of the current flow the Prodigy brake controller will output. Supposedly you can get more output at speed above 30 mph but I haven't seen that on mine with max braking even above 45mph. You probably won't notice the problem unless you have to get on the brakes somewhat hard. I've towed a triple axle rig, 8k bumper pull, and my bighorn, and none of them would lock up the brakes with my 2015 no matter what the setting, all of them would lock up with other trucks, or after market controllers.

Posted By: Threebigfords on 08/19/16 12:26am

Well that sucks. Hopefully if enough folks make enough noise, it will get addressed.

If you add an aftermarket brake controller, does it interface with the factory trailer sway control? I'm not familiar with how that works on a Ram.

Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 08/19/16 12:48am

I couldn't lock up the brakes on my 2005 Cougar 304BHS from day one! I was using a Prodigy P2 in my 2004 Ram 2500. Was told by the RV dealer, Keystone and Tekonsha that the simple fact the brakes are not locking up does not mean there is a problem. The question is will the trailer brakes pull down against the truck firmly.

I replaced the brakes with new self adjusting brakes soldiered all of the connections and used heat shrink tubes and even put silicon caulk inside the tubes before heating them. All the bearings were changed out also and still I could not lock up the brakes. The trailer and truck stopped very well even though they wouldn't lock up.

Here are some links on how to test the voltage output of a controller.

Cerka

E-trailer

Don

2015 Ram 1500 Laramie Crew Cab SWB 4X4 Ecodiesel GDE Tune.

Posted By: GBuilders on 08/19/16 06:43am

I really like my OEM brake controller on my phone 14 Ram. Works perfect and mine is set heavy electric over hydrolic.

2005 Jayco Eagle 305 BHS 5th wheel

New truck: 2019 Ford F-250 power stroke platinum 4x4

Former truck: 2014 Ram Megacab DRW Laramie 4x4 6.7/Aisin 6 speed 3:73

Posted By: Me Again on 08/19/16 06:46am

GBuilders wrote:

I really like my OEM brake controller on my phone 14 Ram. Works perfect and mine is set heavy electric over hydrolic.

2014 work fine. It was the 2015+ that RAM furbar's.

Chris

2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it! RIP DW 07-05-2021

Posted By: Boxer Lovers on 08/19/16 07:48am

My 2012 has worked well for 2+ years on my 15,000# DRV until the last trip. Now it only gives me about half the trailer braking needed. Scary.

Dave, Robin, and Buster the Boxer
2008 Beaver Contessa, 42, Caterpillar 425
Toad 2017 Ram 1500, Quad Cab, Limited, M&G brake, Blue Ox.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/19/16 08:14am

Boxer Lovers wrote:

My 2012 has worked well for 2+ years on my 15,000# DRV until the last trip. Now it only gives me about half the trailer braking needed. Scary.

Maybe you should check the trailer brakes. I had a 11 the controller sucked and worked slightly better than a P-2 I owned. I installed a MaxBrake and to date I have used NOTHING nearly as good.

2015 controller is set Heavy Hydraulic at 10. Brakes come on good and strong but that it! Panic stop is NOT good.

I will be installing my old MaxBrake until RAM gets this figured out.

Posted By: Champ198 on 08/19/16 08:31am

My trailer weight 12k+ lbs. I've tried light electric, heavy electric, and heavy electric over hydraulic. Still same result, feels like the camper is pushing me especially at slow speeds when the speed is too slow for the exhaust brake. At slow speeds, I believe we are on our own for stopping, relying on the truck's disc brakes. I can hear the electric brakes activating; however, the truck will not let the trailer brakes fully activate. I'm going to go along a little farther with this before I go aftermarket Tekonsha.

Duane & Amanda
2017 Crossroads Cameo 33RL
2016 RAM 3500 4x4 6.7 Cummins

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/19/16 09:49am

I believe the issue arrises when your weight gets over 12000 and up.

Our last trailer was 11K and the IBC worked fine.
the new trailer is over 15K and now having issues

I know from the research this problem started with the 2015's and up.

Our 2012 Mega Cab did not have any issues with the IBC. our issues with the brakes came from the trailer themselves when the wiring fell apart.

The exhaust brake does work great but again like the other poster said it does't do so well for the slow speeds when it doesn't activate.

I'm a good distance from my trailer so I don't get to try out these suggestions for a few more days maybe.

the dealership has no interests in discussing it with me

Posted By: Me Again on 08/19/16 03:48pm

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

Same here, my old trailer stopped pretty good with the new truck. New trailer not so well. Old trailer also had the brakes wired in a star configuration with heavier wire. That and the Maxbrake controller in the old truck really worked well. Chris

Posted By: Rangerman40 on 08/19/16 11:16pm

Mine sucks too.... Got a P3.

You need to read this...... http://www.ramforum.com/f119/brake_controller-71708/

Posted By: cbshoestring on 08/20/16 06:35am

Thanks OP for bringing up the subject of RAMS intergrated brake controller.

The dealer installed the controller set on "light". Since my trailer is light, I didn't bother to try and find out how to move it to "heavy". It always concerned me that our 2013 RAM 1500 could not lock up the brakes on our 3500 GVWR trailer (roughly 3200# actual). Even with a maximum setting of "10", the best I could get is a good hard stop.

Several RAM forums seem to suggest that since the intergrated "senses" the amount of pressure being applied to the truck pedal...sends equal amount of force to trailer...that locking up brakes is impossible without locking up truck brakes.

I SAY: HOGWASH. Using the slide on the controller should send maximum braking to trailer brakes. Should be able to lock them up.

Still, I set the thing at 8.5 (which seemed heavy for such a light trailer) and have been pleased that I stop adequatetly without pushing/tugging. They seem to work in conjunction with my truck brakes.

Yesterday, I found the trailer settings, moved it to "heavy", will see on Thursday if that will allow me to lock them up...allow me to use a lower setting.

Posted By: goducks10 on 08/20/16 10:22am

Just got back from a 350 mile trip covering all kinds of terrain. My 12 Ram CTD TBC has always been goofy. Recently though I had it in for some emissions diagnoses and they re-flashed the TBC. I didn't notice much difference since I left it on heavy elec. On this trip I switched to light EOH. Big difference. It now works great. I still get a little jerking when letting up off the brake pedal to accelerate, but noting like before. I tow 9000lbs and have it set at 7.0

Posted By: Bedlam on 08/20/16 12:46pm

I'm finding light electric and heavy electric over hydraulic both work better than the heavy electric profile. I'm towing 6-8K lbs, but my truck with camper on the rear weighs 15K lbs and does not really get pushed by the trailer.

Chevy Sonic 1.8-Honda Passport C70B-Host Mammoth 11.5-Interstate Car Carrier 20-Joyner SandViper 250-Kawasaki Concours ZG1000-Paros 8' flatbed-Pelican Decker DLX 8.75-Ram 5500 HD

Posted By: Threebigfords on 08/20/16 02:58pm

Rangerman40 wrote:

Mine sucks too.... Got a P3.

You need to read this...... http://www.ramforum.com/f119/brake_controller-71708/

Wow...that's a long read. I agree with the OP of that thread that it is a safety issue and anyone having these problems should file a complaint with the NTHSB. That's about the only way enough pressure can be exerted on a manufacturer to force a change/recall.

Hopefully before someone has to pay the ultimate price.

Posted By: F100jetmech on 08/20/16 05:12pm

I am towing about 6500 lbs and have the IBC set on light electric with the gain at 5 and everything is working properly- 2015 Ram 2500

'15 Ram 2500, 6.4 Hemi
'06 S&S Montana Bitterroot 8.5ASC
'04 Jetcraft 1625SK 16' boat
'14 Salem Cruise Lite 261BHXL

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/20/16 05:21pm

F100jetmech wrote:

I am towing about 6500 lbs and have the IBC set on light electric with the gain at 5 and everything is working properly- 2015 Ram 2500

Yes yours would work fine it's below the 12,000 lbs.

As we have previously mentioned it works fine for trailers under 12,000lbs.

Posted By: Blazing Zippers on 08/20/16 10:09pm

We had problems with our Cougar fifth wheel not braking at times---grease on the drums! It's set heavy electric and the gain is 5.5 and works fine now.

Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 08/20/16 11:21pm

You guys that are towing heavy try this. Pull your break away cable and see if you can move your trailer. If you can without the trailer brakes being locked the the issue is with the trailer and NOT the truck! If the trailer brakes are locked with the BAC pulled then I would say you need to open a star case with Ram and get an engineer involved.

Note, by pulling the BAC the trailer brakes will be set at there MAXIMUM braking ability. I'm installing a electric over hydraulic baking system on my boat trailer and the first test after it is installed is to verify the break away battery is fully charged then pull the BAC and verify that the trailer brakes lock fully.

I do not agree with any braking system locking up the brakes! A locked up tire will take a lot longer to stop then a non locked tire! Also it could cause the trailer to skid into another lane of traffic. It would be better to apply the brakes at a lower rate to help keep the safety chains tight and the trailer more in line with the tow vehicle.

I had the hitch failure on my boat trailer and it became disconnected from the truck (safety chains held! They do work!). The BAC system on the surge brake system did not work and the trailer slammed into my truck. Luckily I was only going 40 mph and there were no other vehicles on the road at the time! Had the BA system been working the trailer would have never slammed into my truck. I wounder how long before we start seeing anti-lock systems on RV's and boat trailers?

Don

* This post was edited 08/20/16 11:33pm by Perrysburg Dodgeboy *

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/21/16 05:48am

All you guys with the small trucks, light trailers, and or the 2014's and bwlow have to understand it's not a hardware issue its a software issue.

It's been proven on many different forums that dodge... Ram... Whatever they call it now has an issue with their controller AFTER you break the 12000lb load mark.
Yes they won't admit to it but by the amount of people discussing it I'd say and others agree it's an issue.
I went to my dealership and well they wouldn't talk about it.
Went to another dealership same day and they said they knew of the issue but when contacting people at Ram they didn't want to listen. The third dealership also said they know of it but are waiting for a patch to come out.

I've read many different forums over the last couple days and if researched a bit further can find several articles... Maybe articles isn't the word.... Grip pages we will say of people detailing their issue.

For some reason Ram decided that when the truck senses a trailer over 12K on the truck it decreases the braking ability of said trailer. From what I have gathered from all these sites and reading is it decreases the voltage sent to the harness from, using easy numbers, 100% to 70% for speeds above 30 and lower than 30mph it's decreased more The percentage hasn't been determined for that.

Which doesn't make sense of why you would take away the braking power of a heavy trailer instead of a smaller trailer. It reality it would work if you flipped it. Less than 12k decreases the power as not as much is needed.
Maybe this is what they were trying to do and reversed it.
I have basic tools available to me for diagnosing issues. A voltage tester a digital multimeter. Other people have the oscilloscopes where they can do more. And they have. They have posted up their findings with diagrams and all.
The issue is real and sooner or later it's going to cause an accident where someone gets hurt.
I'm trying to fix the issue before I take my family out.

Ram hasn't commented on it and pushes it aside when asked.

As people have said here
They have taken their trailer and hooked up to other brands Chevy and yes even fords and the brakes have worked as supposed to.
I have a friend who is going to come over with his truck and attempt it with my new trailer. Not to many people around me have a truck capable of moving my new trailer.
I hook up to my little trailers and all is good brakes work fine as supposed too.
I drove our old trailer(11,500lb) to the dealership for the trade in 40 miles away and brakes worked fine. Left the lot with the new one and as I said before almost went through the stop sign.

For the people who have understood this thank you for the input.

* This post was edited 08/21/16 06:13am by Nicholsfamily05 *

Posted By: IndyCamp on 08/21/16 08:01pm

TNrob wrote:

This is exactly where we have ours set (2014 2500 RAM, light trailer, 8.5, towing a 7,500 pound trailer), and it works great.

We were towing on I-70 in Missouri a couple of months ago when the semi in front of us locked up and started smoking due to a collision in front of him/her. I hit the brakes and pinched the bars together for extra braking, and it worked flawlessly. We barely avoided running into the rear of the semi trailer.

2018 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS
2014 RAM 2500 6.4L HEMI

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/22/16 03:32am

IndyCamp wrote:

TNrob wrote:

Again light trailers and the truck you say is a 2014 as where we say the issue is with 2015's and up

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/22/16 10:13am

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

You should not have to have your foot jammed into the floor (Literally) trying to stop the RV in an emergency. I have not tried pulling the cable yet. Even if I do and it won't let the RV move it still has a BIG problem. I can slide the OH SH!T bar and it will NOT stop or hold the RV from moving, all it does when moving is slow down the combo. It is a defective system. I have a high up at Chrysler telling me there is a fix in the works but that has been ongoing since May when I first spoke to him about this. MaxBrake will be going on my 15 soon that I removed from my 11.

Posted By: LittleBill on 08/22/16 10:57am

how exactly does the truck know the weight of the trailer?

Posted By: BenK on 08/22/16 11:12am

LittleBill wrote:

how exactly does the truck know the weight of the trailer?

Not for now...but pretty soon...the OEMs will be forced to include
some sort of strain gauge(s) to both tell tongue weight and how much
inertia that trailer imparts...and the look up tables to tell 'about'
what range it weighs on 'level pavement'...but it might get pretty
complicated when issues arise on inclines...so they will then include
some sort of level/plumb sensor...

Can also see that since these are now 'highly integrated' into the
TV's computer(s) network(s)...they can add to IBC knowledge of the
deceleration rate of the trailer to then tailor the amount of power
sent to the trailer's brakes... [emoticon]

But wait...been there...why not not include yaw sensors and then 'highly
integrate' yaw control into the IBC via the ABS/traction control/etc
system to brake individual wheels to manage yaw too !!!!! [emoticon]

yaw as in sway...

-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Posted By: Mmaxed on 08/22/16 03:14pm

LittleBill wrote:

how exactly does the truck know the weight of the trailer?

I'm not sure they are monitoring the trailer weight. More than once in all the pages of discussion on this the brake size has came up. The heavier trailers use 2" x 12" brakes. Apparently this bigger brake rakes more voltage to achieve its stopping power. Since Ram is limiting the duty cycle and thus the voltage this combo is not safe.

Last year I had put new brakes on the hauler. Took a while to get them seated in, but were working fine with my '08 Ford. Hooked up the new '15 Ram mid season and things went backwards. Did some research online and found the issue. The fix was a P3. Now I can stop safely again.

Posted By: Turtle n Peeps on 08/22/16 03:49pm

Ben, they will only need two more sensors. An inclinometer and a driveshaft torque gauge. They already have the TPS and know what gear it's in, so that's the last two gauges they will need to know what's up.

~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~

"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"

"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln

Posted By: BenK on 08/22/16 04:02pm

Turtle...you've got me...again [emoticon]

...and is exactly what am talking about...

As an engineering manager, red lined superfluous stuff all the time back that day...but
as a designer on this topic...of course went to the 'best' thought of the moment... [emoticon]

So, yes two will suffice...and the other computers highly integrated
will include the MPH, ICE Rev's, etc...via their look up tables...and
the tire size (rev's per mile) must be either OEM or reflashed to another
rev's per mile on it's look up tables...

Back on topic...the comments of 'that is the way of trailers...many/most
can NOT skid their brakes' and I say bologna...try saying that about
any TV or car...some just can NOT skid or go into ABS with their stock
brakes...BOLOGNA

Trailer OEM's have such a rich history of "El Cheapo" in just about
every aspect of their products. Am sure there are a small number of OWM's
who do provide high quality (not just in materials, but design and production)...

Continue to say any trailer should be able to skid their tires when
the lanyard and/or the controller lever is at max...ditto when the
TV's brake pedal is nailed...

Of course...after the trailer brakes have been properly bedded in...

{edit}...it does not...or should not depend any specific power being
sent to the trailer brakes...the trailer brakes should be able to skid
the tires, IMHO, otherwise not good for the trailer OEM's GVWR for that
trailer...

Posted By: Ron3rd on 08/22/16 04:08pm

I've only had my new truck out once but the integrated brake controller seems to work fine. I set mine for heavy electric and adjusted the gain up to about 9.5. I know the brakes on my trailer need to be adjusted and once that's done I can probably turn the gain down a bit. Worked awesome though on the short trip we recently took.

NOTE: I no longer have the Tundra, current truck is 2500 CTD, 2016 Big Horn.

2016 6.7 CTD 2500 BIG HORN MEGA CAB
2013 Forest River 3001W Windjammer
Equilizer Hitch
Honda EU2000

"I have this plan to live forever; so far my plan is working"

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/22/16 05:43pm

Ron3rd wrote:

You have the truck yes BUT your just like most others here are missing the main thing. Your weight. You have a windjammer(first trailer we bought new). It's light. It does not exceed the 12k needed to make the controller malfunction.

But also why are your brakes set so high. We had the windjammer on our 2012 Mega Cab 2500 Hemi and had it at maybe 6-6.5.

Posted By: otrfun on 08/22/16 05:48pm

Five pages of discussion about brake controllers (defective or otherwise) with no mention of voltage/current readings from realworld rigs? Maybe I missed it.

My two cents:

If your brake controller is capable of producing 12v and 3a (per brake assembly) then it's designed to work safely with the vast majority of trailer brakes. Anything less correspondingly reduces the number of trailers it can safely stop.

If 12v and 3a (per brake) doesn't stop your rig satisfactorily, don't blame your brake controller, blame your wiring or brake mechanicals.

On the flipside, just because your Ram IBC "works great" doesn't necessarily mean it's capable of producing 12v and 3a (per brake), it just means your Ram IBC's voltage/current output is probably a good match with your trailer (which may need considerably less than 12v and 3a per brake to brake properly).

* This post was edited 08/22/16 07:26pm by otrfun *

Posted By: Searching_Ut on 08/22/16 07:21pm

otrfun wrote:

Five pages of discussion about brake controllers (defective or otherwise) with no mention of voltage/current readings from realworld rigs? Maybe I missed it.

My two cents:

If your brake controller is capable of producing 12v and 300ma (per brake assembly) then it's designed to work safely with the vast majority of trailer brakes. Anything less correspondingly reduces the number of trailers it can safely stop.

If 12v and 300ma (per brake) doesn't stop your rig satisfactorily, don't blame your brake controller, blame your wiring or brake mechanicals.

On the flipside, just because your Ram IBC "works great" doesn't necessarily mean it's capable of producing 12v and 300ma (per brake), it just means your Ram IBC's voltage/current output is probably a good match with your trailer (which may need considerably less than 12v and 300ma per brake to brake properly).

For Dexter axles, 7 inch brakes draw 2.5 amps at 12vdc in normal operation. The bigger brakes, especially the 2 X 12's we're talking about for the larger trailers need 3 amps each for max braking. 12 amps total for a 4 brake system. Normally you'd obviously need a little less than max current as you don't max your brakes out every time you stop. It would be nice to do so if necessary though. It's a pity Chrysler diasagrees.

Posted By: F100jetmech on 08/22/16 08:00pm

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

F100jetmech wrote:

I am towing about 6500 lbs and have the IBC set on light electric with the gain at 5 and everything is working properly- 2015 Ram 2500

Yes yours would work fine it's below the 12,000 lbs.

As we have previously mentioned it works fine for trailers under 12,000lbs.

Actually, YOU said that you BELIEVED it works fine below 12,000 lbs- there was nothing to conclusively say that previously in the thread. I, like a lot of others with "light" trailers on here were just trying to help by giving our experiences for comparison.

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/22/16 08:08pm

F100jetmech wrote:

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

F100jetmech wrote:

I am towing about 6500 lbs and have the IBC set on light electric with the gain at 5 and everything is working properly- 2015 Ram 2500

Yes yours would work fine it's below the 12,000 lbs.

As we have previously mentioned it works fine for trailers under 12,000lbs.

Yes and from all the replies we have received here and other forums( Ram, Cummins) it shows that a trailer below 12k there is no issue with the brakes.
It does show that a Ram 2015-2016 with a trailer above the listed 12k range causes the brake malfunction.

So when you put it all together.
A column of the vehicles listed, year , model, and say make
Then a column of the trailers again year, model and now weight
Compare them with what brake controllers are being used
Brings one to ....yes ..... Believe there is an issue with Ram trucks and trailers over 12K

The more people who list there trucks and trailers here is great yes as it adds to my list and table.

There is also the fact that we don't see other brands saying this or discussing it.
I'm still waiting for my buddy to bring his truck over and try out my trailer. None Ram product.

If we could present this information to Ram maybe we could get an acknowledgment of an issue. If it's just a software glitch good easy fix if it's not then maybe we have a larger issue.

But the facts show their is an issue with their brake controller.
As I've said I connect to my "light trailer" (1981 30' camper frame turned ATV trailer) and I have no issue. It's set to 4 and my brakes work nice any higher and they lock up.
Brakes have never been adjusted and before I built it trailer sat in a field for 20 years.

[image]

Connected to my old 2014 bunk house at 11k. No issues stopped perfectly. Was set between 6-7. Only pulled it twice with new truck.

[image]

And now the new 2017 Sierra over 15k we have the issue.

[image]

Just to give some perspective here.
I do appreciate everyone weighing as like I said just adds to the facts there's an issue.
Sorry if it came out the wrong way.

* This post was edited 08/22/16 08:27pm by Nicholsfamily05 *

Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 08/22/16 08:21pm

otrfun wrote:

I posted that earlier with links on how to do it.

BTW the Rams equipped with air ride1 500/2500 know exactly how much weight you put on or in the bed. And will notify you when you if your overload the truck.

Don

Posted By: Me Again on 08/22/16 09:08pm

otrfun wrote:

Guess you failed to read the thread and the fact that in 2015 RAM shorten up the pulse width modulation to the brakes. Amperage may be fine except for the fact that they greatly reduced the amount of time the pulse it sent to the trailer brakes. Chris

Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 08/23/16 12:46am

Me Again wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Chris for use non electrical engineers could you please explain how the pulse width modulation affects the ability of the controller on a heavy towed vehicle? Heavy being over 12,000# as that seems to be the point that these issues come up. Also is this a Ram only issue or are the other brands having the same issue?

Thanks Don

Posted By: otrfun on 08/23/16 05:17am

Me Again wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Not the case with my 2016 Ram 3500 IBC. The voltage reading with a standard VM was directly proportional with the current reading using a clamp-on ammeter. With gain set to 10 on heavy electric/hydraulic with max application of the IBC slider, overall voltage was ~8v, current was 2.0a - 2.2a on each brake.

Posted By: Me Again on 08/23/16 07:59am

otrfun wrote:

Me Again wrote:

otrfun wrote:

A volt meter and clamp on current meter are not giving you a full picture of what is occurring with the pulse modulation. That takes an oscilloscope.

Posted By: MudChucker on 08/23/16 08:16am

Question... How does the truck know the weight of the trailer?

I have heavy electric set for all my trailers... I am over 12k on all my trailers, my equipment trailer is over 20 and all this time I thought the trailers brakes were in need of repair... Maybe I have the problem too?

Posted By: TurnThePage on 08/23/16 09:16am

Read
Otrfun's first complaint post about these brake controllers for some insight. It sounds like the brake controller is modulating the pulse too aggressively to keep the braking experience nice and smooth. That's my take anyway.

If you apply lets say 12v to a circuit for only fractions of a second, a typical testing device will likely read a reduced voltage. The brakes will also feel that lower voltage. Lighter duty axle brakes don't need as much voltage to work properly. The more HD axles require a higher voltage. If the brake controller would stretch out, or increase the number of those momentary voltage pulses, the over all reading would be higher, and likely the hd axle brakes would work.

2015 Ram 1500
2022 Grand Design Imagine XLS 22RBE

Posted By: BenK on 08/23/16 10:35am

This is called hysteresis, or the rate the voltage will build (ramp up) and drop
off (fall ramp).

It takes voltage to build a magnetic field (flux field) and the higher the impedance
the longer it will take building up and fall off

Since poor trailer wiring will NOT deliver all the available voltage...it will
take more time

Since the brake magnets are highly inductive by nature, it will take even longer
to build the magnetic field (flux field). Ditto when the PWM cycles off/on and
will become the average factored by that hysteresis of building/collapsing flux
fields

Again, it depends on what kind of PWM. The really good ones ($$$) can modulate
the frequency along with amplitude. Lesser are set frequency and only modulate
amplitude and these can NOT deliver full voltage just by the nature of the
set frequency and the max available voltage

This is also where some confuse the PWM frequency with ABS...they are different

Posted By: otrfun on 08/23/16 12:48pm

Me Again wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Me Again wrote:

otrfun wrote:

A volt meter and clamp on current meter are not giving you a full picture of what is occurring with the pulse modulation. That takes an oscilloscope.

I know what PWM looks like on a scope. Looks similar to a square wave except PWM never changes polarity like a square wave---typically PWM transitions to zero. FWIW, I used to use PWM to adjust the heat output on my heated vest while cycling in sub-freezing weather. Much more efficient than using a variable resistor/rheostat.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter what PWM looks like in terms of the point I'm trying to make:

If a brake controller is not capable of producing 12vdc (as read by any standard VM) and/or 3a (at each brake, as read by any decent clamp-on ammeter), then it is not performing up to the generally accepted industry standard.

Me Again, curious, can you explain why the voltage and current readings on my 2016 Ram IBC increase at the same proportional rate until reaching the following maximum values? V = I x R.

2016 Ram IBC:
~8 vdc, 66% of 12 vdc.
~2 amps, 66% of 3 amps.

Here are the maximum voltage/current readings I observed after disconnecting the Ram IBC and installing a Tekonsha P3 on the same 2016 Ram truck (connected to the same trailer):
~12 vdc, 100% of 12vdc.
~3 amps, 100% of 3 amps.

Thanks!

Posted By: brulaz on 08/23/16 01:25pm

otrfun wrote:

...
If a brake controller is not capable of producing 12vdc (as read by any standard VM) and/or 3a (at each brake, as read by any decent clamp-on ammeter), then it is not performing up to the generally accepted industry standard.

Me Again, curious, can you explain why the voltage and current readings on my 2016 Ram IBC increase at the same proportional rate until reaching the following maximum values? V = I x R.

2016 Ram IBC:
~8 vdc, 66% of 12 vdc.
~2 amps, 66% of 3 amps.

Here are the maximum voltage/current readings I observed after disconnecting the Ram IBC and installing a Tekonsha P3 on the same 2016 Ram truck (connected to the same trailer):
~12 vdc, 100% of 12vdc.
~3 amps, 100% of 3 amps.

Thanks!

When you took those measurements, was the truck moving at highway speeds? I'm pretty sure the RAM and others reduce the controller output at low speeds. But the P3 does not.

Have read on another forum that it was at low speeds, around town, that people were having the problems with the RAM controller. I got the impression that RAM was being too aggressive in cutting down the output at low speeds.

2014 ORV Timber Ridge 240RKS,8500#,1250# tongue,44K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar,4 GC2s,215Ah@24V
2016 Ram 2500 4x4 RgCab CTD,2507# payload,10.8 mpgUS tow

Posted By: otrfun on 08/23/16 02:45pm

brulaz wrote:

otrfun wrote:

...
If a brake controller is not capable of producing 12vdc (as read by any standard VM) and/or 3a (at each brake, as read by any decent clamp-on ammeter), then it is not performing up to the generally accepted industry standard.

Me Again, curious, can you explain why the voltage and current readings on my 2016 Ram IBC increase at the same proportional rate until reaching the following maximum values? V = I x R.

2016 Ram IBC:
~8 vdc, 66 percent of 12 vdc.
~2 amps, 66 percent of 3 amps.

Here are the maximum voltage/current readings I observed after disconnecting the Ram IBC and installing a Tekonsha P3 on the same 2016 Ram truck (connected to the same trailer):
~12 vdc, 100 percent of 12vdc.
~3 amps, 100 percent of 3 amps.

Thanks!

That's a good question.

I keep hearing that the Ram IBC reduces output at low speeds, or only produces a full 12v above, say, 30-35 MPH. Could be true; however, I'm not going to bet my safety on internet hearsay.

At the time I was making these voltage/current readings I was getting ready for a cross-country trip and didn't have a suitable location nearby (or the time) to safely simulate a full panic stop. However, I did push the Ram IBC manual slider to the maximum braking position (full left) at 45 MPH and read the same 8v. Honestly, that was enough testing for me. If I can't get maximum braking voltage from a brake controller manually, then there's no way I'm gonna trust that it's somehow going to magically do it when I have to stop my truck and trailer in an emergency. In any case, there may be situations where I may need a full 12v even with the manual slider. That in itself is a no-go in my world.

For my situation, the Tekonsha P3 has been a dramatic jump in functionality over the Ram IBC. The fact that it produces a full 12v and 3a to each brake under ALL conditions, manually, while stopped, slow speeds, fast speeds, automatically, without any delay or excuses is a very big deal. I also like the boost mode (B1, B2, and B3), which allows the driver to fine-tune braking response at slow speeds. In addition, you can easily monitor battery voltage, braking voltage and braking current, realtime, under all conditions. It's comforting to visually see the P3 producing everything from 0-12 volts (and 0-12 amps of current for the 4 brakes on my trailer) quickly, seamlessly while I brake. These are critical data items, just like the gas, temp, oil, water, and tranny, gauges on your truck.

In any case, for those of us that need a full 12v of braking voltage, I'm hoping Ram comes up with a firmware fix. If/when they do, it would only take me 10 minutes to remove my Tekonsha P3 and reactivate my Ram IBC.

* This post was edited 08/23/16 03:01pm by otrfun *

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/23/16 03:18pm

I received he new Tekonsha P3 in the mail today and took all of 3 minutes to connect it.
I'm not mounting it yet as I'm hopeful Ram will fix their issue and I don't want any holes in my dash even if they are in an area where they won't be seen.

I will be testing it out Thursday on my ATV trailer and if I can get down to my other trailer I'll be testing it out there as well. Depends on how busy a day I have at home with the kiddos.

Posted By: Searching_Ut on 08/23/16 05:12pm

Regarding OtrFuns question regarding his multimeter readings, they're pretty much what I would expect to see. When it comes to AC, or pulsed dc, most meters don't display peak, or peak to peak voltage but instead display and "average" value (Oversimplified I know). The IBC uses Pulse width modulation to vary voltage, which has the same effect with simple circuits like electromagnets as what you would get with more traditional analog control. It's cheaper and easier to do with solid state devices especially because of heat generation type issues. With the Ram IBC the voltage is either 12vdc or 0, and the current varies in the same way. However, the effective current based on pulse frequency, load filtering effects etc. ends providing the same effects as what you would get with steady voltage/current output type circuits.

Bottom line, while I carry a little pocket scope in my truck toolbox, and prefer to use it for circuits like this, the behavior of the circuits I've tested on my truck with my multimeter have given me the same results as I calculate I would get based on the scope.

Finally, if your truck is setup like mine with 2 seven pin connectors you can easily see what sort of signal you're sending to the brakes by building a harness to run up to the cab of the truck through the rear slide window. I built one, hooked it to the bumper trailer connector plug while my 5er was hooked to the bed and looked at what sort of voltage was being sent to the trailer real-time. (Current would be a little harder to measure while driving) I never saw the voltage increase close to 12vdc even when traveling 45mph. I only tried a couple of times as hitting the brakes hard with the trailer on the back isn't all that fun, and not necessarily good for the equipment.

Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 08/23/16 09:29pm

MudChucker wrote:

The air ride system measures the amount of pressure being exerted on the rear air bags. The system knows how much pressure is in each bag and can calculate the weight added to the truck.

Both the 1500 and 2500 (not sure if the 3500 has the rear bags yet but it will soon) that are equipped with the air ride system as this ability. The 1500 is a full four corner system and the 2500 is a rear only system. We have seen a few members @ the EcoD forum report that they have had a warning come up on the dash about being over loaded! And yes that gets logged for ever!

I do not think that the brake controller receives this data though.

Don

Posted By: Me Again on 08/23/16 09:34pm

3500 has a rear air option starting with 2015 models.

Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 08/23/16 09:45pm

From what I gleaned from Ben's post I would bet that the problem is Ram is using the wrong size wire going from the controller to the trailer connector on the HD trucks. I know my EOH system I installed on my boat trailer requires a 12 AGW wire for their single axle system @ 30' max. For a dual axle a 10 AWG @ 30' max is required.

Couple that with the under rated wiring and piss poor connections the trailer manufacturers use and you will end up with issues. My 2004 Cougar's wiring was a joke. The connectors were the screw on wire nuts without any covering at all. and the wire looked to be only 14 AWG not 12 or 10!

Note, on my boat system the max length is the hyd brake line.

Don

Posted By: MudChucker on 08/24/16 05:13am

I'm nor so sure mine works now either..with my 5th I weigh in at 13k and a little bit...those brakes work fine, gain at 5.5 and I can stop the truck with the trailer...with my equipment rigs I weigh in between 15k and 30k , gain at 10 and all I feel is a tug...brakes are adjusted, and they used to lock up on my gmc 6liter. ..

So, how do I plug in an aftermarket unit ?

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/24/16 06:08am

Under the dash right above the gas pedal you can locate the wiring harness(grey plug) just disconnect it and plug in the new one and it works great.

Just did mine yesterday.

Posted By: otrfun on 08/24/16 06:16am

MudChucker wrote:

I'm assuming you'll be mounting it in your '15 Ram 3500. First remove the lower dash panel just below the steering column. Just 3-4 screws. Just above the accelerator pedal you should see the 4-prong plug that looks just like the plug on the end of the Tekonsha 3024-P pigtail (used on 2015-2016 Rams). Of course, I'm also assuming you'll be replacing it with a Tekonsha unit. If not, you may have to google some pics/videos to identify the plug. In any case, unplug the 4-prong plug and plug in the 3024-P pigtail. The other end of the 3024-P plugs into the Tekonsha brake controller. That's it. No programming or dealer flash required. The Tekonsha brake controller is now active. The EVIC will simply show the IBC as 'not connected'.

If you don't have a center console, I'd recommend mounting the aftermarket brake controller on the lower, dash panel just above the transmission hump. This panel simply pulls straight back out without having to remove any screws. Some folks mount it on the lower dash panel just below the steering column. Mounted in this position (IMO) it's not easy to see or access, it's very close to your knees, plus the plastic is very flimsy.

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/24/16 07:12am

You don't even have to undo the screws and remove the plastic. Just look up and it's right there.

You can reach under unplug it and plug the new one in it took all of three minutes to do.

Like I said I'm not mounting mine permanently because I don't want holes as I'm hopeful they will have a patch for it.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/24/16 09:29am

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

The FACT is the controller was changed for 2015. The FACT is Chrysler knows there is a problem. The FACT is they are working on a fix. I get my info right from the source. NO I will not mention names. You will just have to believe me or not.

The 12-14 controllers worked great. I am sure you can thank some liability issues for this whole mess.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/24/16 09:31am

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

I agree, nothing needs to be removed.

Posted By: Bedlam on 08/24/16 09:57am

Since aftermarket controllers work fine with the OEM wiring, you know it is something in the OEM controller hardware or software is causing these issues. I see the heavy electric profile as the most problematic and can use either of the other profiles with better braking, so I assume it is a programming error rather than controller hardware.

Posted By: otrfun on 08/24/16 11:27am

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

I agree, nothing needs to be removed.

I suppose that's true if you're mounting the brake controller in that immediate area (or not at all in Nichol's case). I chose to mount the BC in the bottom, center dash area (for reasons previously mentioned). It took all of 2 minutes to remove the driver's side lower dash panel which made routing the wires to the bottom, center dash area much easier. Probably should have mentioned that.

* This post was last edited 08/24/16 12:17pm by otrfun *

Posted By: otrfun on 08/24/16 11:29am

Oops, double post.

Posted By: otrfun on 08/24/16 11:44am

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

Did you happen to check your Ram IBC's maximum braking voltage (or current) before installing the P3?

Posted By: MudChucker on 08/24/16 12:27pm

thanks for the details.

You are correct in your assumptions [emoticon]

Sadly, I have the big console so I'll have to figure out an installation location, I like to have access to the controller so under the column wouldn't be my first choice either.

otrfun wrote:

MudChucker wrote:

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/24/16 12:36pm

otrfun wrote:

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

Did you happen to check your Ram IBC's maximum braking voltage (or current) before installing the P3?

No I did not as after reading and researching the info it appeared that I was having the same issue that all the others were having.
Out of all the web sites I visited and joined that are discussing this topic I have only seen one or two people who claim to have a working IBC in a 2015-2016 truck. But when asked to provide proof of said info the people disappear.

Normally I would have taken the time to take readings and verify info but with my work schedule and my trailer being 40+ miles away I'll work with the after market for now.
My other factor was that I had a brake issue on my precious trailer that well it didn't have brakes at all. Found it had burned up 3 of the 4 magnets and other issues. It was fixed and towed with my truck. The trailer was under 11.5K and it worked flawlessly as I have mentioned before. Once the new trailer was on nope not working. My small ATV trailer worked fine back to new 5er nope. See my previous post on this thread shows my trailers.

Thursday my buddy and I are going to my other house where trailer is stored and testing it with his truck. So we will see then.
And we will test it with the P3. I'll put up the results but I think we all know how this is going to go.

Posted By: otrfun on 08/24/16 01:30pm

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Nicholsfamily05 wrote:

Did you happen to check your Ram IBC's maximum braking voltage (or current) before installing the P3?

Totally understand. So many things to do and not enough time.

If you had the same voltage/current issues with your Ram IBC as I did, the P3 should take care of them.

Good luck!

Posted By: otrfun on 08/24/16 02:24pm

MudChucker wrote:

thanks for the details.

You are correct in your assumptions [emoticon]

Sadly, I have the big console so I'll have to figure out an installation location, I like to have access to the controller so under the column wouldn't be my first choice either.

You're welcome! That center console is a very nice option to have; unfortunately, it leaves you with very few mounting options beyond the lower dash area below the steering wheel. Suppose you could just temporarily lay the P3 inside one of the larger open console areas until you find a more permanent solution. Make sure it's secure and placed on the proper axis because any movement (or improper placement) could interfere with the proper operation of the inertia sensors while braking.

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/25/16 01:28pm

So the second dealership I went to called me back today.

He said he talked to his rep that covers the state and he was told that the brake controller is only rated for 12K. So anything above that we would need to install an after market one.

So if his rep is right and not guessing then there's the issue but never heard of a controller only rated for weight thought it was more of how many axles.

But if that's the case then there is no patch to fix it.

Posted By: Me Again on 08/25/16 05:14pm

Boo. Wrong answer. What a bunch of BS.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/25/16 06:59pm

Me Again wrote:

Boo. Wrong answer. What a bunch of BS.

What a copout!!! So does that mean the great controllers that were in the 12-14 trucks were heavier rated?

Posted By: Perrysburg Dodgeboy on 08/25/16 11:32pm

Hay thanks for the "Facts" Cummins12V98 lol.

So if the old controllers worked could you just swap out the new controller (2015 and up) with an older 2014 or does there need to be a flash done to make it work.

Call your "source" and ask him if what the OP was told is FCA/Rams position or just a dealer blowing sunshine! The OP should take his whole set up to the dealer and re hook the OE controller up show them how it works. Then hook up the aftermarket P3 and show them how it works. Also ask for the factory rep to be there at the time. He should also READ the instruction manual paying attention to page four, it reads, http://www.tekonsha.com/support/installation/N90195.pdf
"1. Front of the P3 must be horizontal, see below.
2. The P3 must be parallel to direction of travel,
see below"
If it is not mounted I doubt that it is either horizontal nor parallel to direction of travel. This controller is a proportional braking system and needs to be correctly mounted for it to work correctly.

Not sure what the hostility is about there Cummins12V98 but I agree that if there is an issue with the controller FCA/Ram needs to fix it. The controller needs to work with ANY trailer that the truck is rated to tow period!!!

Don

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/26/16 08:08am

So I tried to mount the P3 without having to use any screws.
My reason is once they have a fix for the issue and I no longer need this device I don't want to be left with any holes.

I first did it with the double sided tape but I parked my truck out in the heat and well it fell off.

Since I have to use screws I mounted it to the side of my center console on the removable panel.
This way of the time comes for me to remove I can just purchase a replacement panel and done.

[image]

Posted By: goducks10 on 08/26/16 08:23am

Hope that works for you. My son did the same exact mount in his Pathfinder and it wouldn't work. It has to be facing you. You can tilt it up like that but the controller needs to be facing front to back in order for it to sense the trucks movement right.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/26/16 09:01am

Don no hostility here, just making a statement not directed at you personally. Just irritated that the controller has been dumbed down to meet someones idea of making it more safe. As in CYA for a lawsuit.

No they can not be changed, that would be an easy fix! No different then when I had the Dealer in Pahrump install my Dad's controller from his 12 and put in my 11 and did not work.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 08/26/16 09:07am

Nicholsonfamily05, most likely your controller won't work as well in that position. As mentioned it needs to be in plane with the truck and level side to side. It can be tipped front to back.

Posted By: otrfun on 08/26/16 09:09am

goducks10 wrote:

Have to agree with Goducks10. The way you have it mounted will probably compromise its operation.

Here's a quote from the P3 instruction/installation manual:

1. Front of the P3 must be horizontal.
2. The P3 must be parallel to direction of travel.

The manual also has two pictures with arrows that show the rear of the P3 must be facing forward, towards the direction of travel. The two pictures give the impression it cannot be off more than a few degrees.

Posted By: Nicholsfamily05 on 08/26/16 09:09am

Yeah just tested it. Doesn't like that way. ****. Oh well worth a shot right. Haha.

Guess I have to make a mount for it.

Posted By: Searching_Ut on 08/26/16 08:36pm

Well, just got the truck back from the dealer again and according to them Chrysler says the brake controller works as it's supposed to and they're not working a fix since there is no problem. Dealer frustrated because many unhappy customers and they're just a middle man. I'm not holding my breath on Chrysler coming through as the good deal I got on this truck was due to Feds getting involved that they were not taking care of safety issues in a timely manner.

Posted By: brulaz on 08/27/16 07:37am

This guy shows the brake controller output on a scope at over 30mph and under 30 mph. The over 30mph looks pretty good, but under 30mph, the average voltage drops to around 7V. Not good enough for some of the heavier trailers.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013-g........ket-brake-controller-6.html#post24283305

Posted By: otrfun on 08/27/16 11:07am

brulaz wrote:

Thanks for posting this link, brulaz.

Some excellent info here. For those not into the scope-based stuff, note post #74 by boshog. He posted some excellent chart/graph-based, numerical comparisons of the 2007 Chevy 2500 ITBM, Prodigy P2, and the 2015 Ram IBC. His voltage readings match the readings I obtained from my '16 Ram 3500 IBC almost identically.

Posted By: Searching_Ut on 08/27/16 02:48pm

BossHog has done an excellent job of documenting what is going on. My own limited checking didn't produce the same result over 30 mph but I only tried by hitting the breaks hard rather than using the slider. I can't test again for awhile as my 5er is still in the shop. Don't dare slam on the brakes again when I get it back until I resolve a hitch issue.

I'll have to see if there is any software out there that will interface with my cheap little pocket scope so that I can capture and display data to support what bosshog is already showing folks. Seems some question all trucks are doing the same thing. I know mine has the same exact output characteristics as his at lower speeds.

Posted By: brulaz on 08/28/16 06:43am

Searching_Ut wrote:

I think another complicating issue is that the RAM 2500s require quite a bit of pedal pressure just to brake the truck alone. I've noticed it coming from an F150 and have read several complaints online.

That, plus the lower trailer brake voltage at low speeds, can lead to problems stopping a heavy trailer, especially for new owners. It happened to me even with my lighter trailer coming down a steep hill in town with a stop light at the bottom. The truck was new and I wasn't using the exhaust brake, so I really had to stand on the brakes at the bottom. Quite a surprise.

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 09/04/16 08:44am

Well I did it! Disconnected my factory controller until they "hopefully" have a fix. I installed my MaxBrake I had in my 11 HO RAM Dually. I have not towed yet hope to do so soon. Will report back.

[image]

Posted By: Me Again on 09/04/16 07:38pm

Cummins12V98 wrote:

I wonder if Ken will let me have the Maxbrake back from Old Blue if I buy him a P3???

Chris

* This post was edited 09/04/16 10:40pm by Me Again *

Posted By: Cummins12V98 on 09/05/16 10:46am

Me Again wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

I wonder if Ken will let me have the Maxbrake back from Old Blue if I buy him a P3???

Chris

I think that is a great idea! It will keep you busy for a whole day paintings it "CHERRY" Red! I remember the nice job you did on it.

Pic???

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