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Topic: Looking to downsize
Posted By: tommy salmon on 08/12/16 04:18pm

My wife and I are looking to downsize from our Class A motorhome to a truck camper in order to do some backcountry camping or just to be able to get into some of the smaller National and State Park campgrounds while still being able to tow our Jeep. We may keep the Class A for longer trips, but my main dilemma is whick truck camper to buy. I have a 2011 Ford F250 crewcab, diesel, shortbed, 4X4, so I am limited to 2,045 pounds cargo capacity. We like the idea of a hardside camper for convenience and weather protection, but like the pop ups for the lighter weight and lower profile while traveling. I know we can save some weight by going to a non shower unit with a cassette toilet, but we like the convenience of having a shower and have no experience with a cassette toilet. I was told that many people CHOOSE a cassette toilet, but I wonder WHY? Please give me your recommendations for or against hardside/pop ups and cassette toilet without showers or flushing toilet with shower. Thanks!

2018 Thor Chateau 24F
2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon
2011 Harley Davidson Road King Police
Gorgeous Wife, 4 kids, 18 Foster kids, Retired State Trooper/Former US Marine.

Posted By: kohldad on 08/12/16 04:42pm

A pop-up doesn't necessary mean lighter weight. And when looking, remember the advertised weight is for a unit without options.

Reason folks like a cassette toilet is though it has smaller capacity, it is easier to dump. You can grab the cassette and dump in a regular toilet, pit toilet (check regs), or at the regular dump station.

If you plan on off-road, try to stay with a non-basement style camper to keep the cog as low as possible.

I have a Lance 815 which is a bit tight in the shower but a nice hardside for off-road because most of it's weight is down low, it is about the shortest hard side, and only 83" wide which is a foot narrower than a lot of TCs. The 815 works on long and by adding two rear skirts short bed trucks. Loaded for a long trip, we are only at 2,400# which should be a good match. Even the older units are in good shape and can be found relatively easy.

Now that the kids no longer camp with us, we really love just running around with it. Because it is narrow and doesn't hang over the back of my long bed truck, we can park in a standard parking space. In some national parks, we are even allowed to use tent sites because as they see it we use the same parking spot. This opens up a lot more site options.

2015 Ram 3500 4x4 Crew Cab SRW 6.4 Hemi LB 3.73 (12.4 hand calc avg mpg after 92,000 miles with camper)
2004 Lance 815 (prev: 2004 FW 35'; 1994 TT 30'; Tents)


Posted By: cewillis on 08/12/16 05:01pm

kohldad wrote:


Reason folks like a cassette toilet is though it has smaller capacity, it is easier to dump. You can grab the cassette and dump in a regular toilet, pit toilet (check regs), or at the regular dump station.

If you plan on off-road, try to stay with a non-basement style camper to keep the cog as low as possible.

Yes, a cassette is MUCH easier to dump. I wouldn't have anything else.

I don't agree about the non-basement though -- my 44 gallons of fresh water and 3 of 4 90+ lb batteries are in my basement. CG couldn't be much lower.

Cal


Posted By: Kayteg1 on 08/12/16 05:02pm

You should do better than 2000 lb camper, but this is thin line.
I bought my 4200 lb (dry) camper while driving F250 shortbed.
It was scary but I made it home.
Bad news is >> you can't have it all. Don't know what size comes with shower and wet toilet, but I imagine somebody makes 8' camper with them and that should be less than 3000 lb with COG up front, so rear axle would not be overloaded.
Would I have camper with no shower and no toilet, I would rather drive SUV where you can fold the seat for sleeping, add a tent and use hotels more often.




Posted By: JimK-NY on 08/12/16 05:10pm

You will need some serious upgrades to improve the weight carrying capacity. At a minimum you will need upgraded rear suspension including shocks. You might need a wheel and tire upgrade. You will be pushing it if you want a hardsided camper and also want to tow a Jeep.

You should stick with a smaller unit without slides to keep the weight down. I suggest you look at Northstar. They have a lot of choices for smaller truck campers.

They also feature cassette toilets. I like mine. It will need to be emptied frequently...like every 2-3 days for 2 campers. It can be dumped in an outhouse, household toilet or of course at a dump station.

Personally I would not give up having a shower. With many smaller units the entire restroom is the shower. That works better than you might imagine. I use a squeegee to wipe down the walls afterwards and it dries quickly.

Posted By: Old Days on 08/12/16 05:53pm

Go look at a Lance 825 its a great camper for two people. With a few suspension up grades you can carry a 825. Just look at my profile.

Posted By: TxGearhead on 08/12/16 06:12pm

Take a look at a Lance 650.

2018 Ram 3500 CC LB DRW 4X4 Cummins Aisin Laramie Pearl White
2018 Landmark Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4
2014 NauticStar 21 ShallowBay 150HP Yamaha
2016 GoDevil 18X44 35HP Surface Drive

Posted By: JimK-NY on 08/12/16 06:19pm

Old Days wrote:

Go look at a Lance 825 its a great camper for two people. With a few suspension up grades you can carry a 825. Just look at my profile.


Are you also towing a Jeep like the OP wants to do?

Posted By: Kayteg1 on 08/12/16 06:40pm

Why I don't get in this scenario?
Driving F250 short bed 4x4 and tow Jeep?
What for?

Posted By: tommy salmon on 08/12/16 06:50pm

Kayteg 1 - The Jeep is for SERIOUS four wheeling. Lifted, locking rear differential, winch, skid plates, etc.

Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 08/12/16 06:53pm

Kayteg1 wrote:

Why I don't get in this scenario?
Driving F250 short bed 4x4 and tow Jeep?
What for?

Because you aren't driving that F250 over the off-road trails.

2007 F350,SC,LB,4x4,6.0/Auto,35" tires,16.5 Warn,Buckstop bumpers
2007 Outfitter Apex9.5,270W solar,SolarBoost2000e,2 H2K's,2KW inverter,2 20lb LP on slide out tray,4 Lifeline AGM bats,Tundra fridge
95 Bounder 28' ClassA sold
91 Jamboree 21' ClassC sold

Posted By: Kayteg1 on 08/12/16 07:04pm

OK, got the real off-road Jeep.
Is it street legal? Why not pull TT with it?
Other option is toy hauler behind F250
I bet the Jeep tires cost way more than standard size on trailers.

* This post was edited 08/12/16 07:11pm by Kayteg1 *

Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 08/12/16 07:08pm

OP, going with a cassette toilet doesn't mean you can't have a shower as well. Outfitter, Northstar and hallmark all have such setups.

To be clear I and others are talking about this.[image][image]

and not this when we say cassette toilet.[image]

Something like the Outfitter Apex8 should work well for your needs with its relatively lightweight construction and the lower height from the pop-up roof allowing easier navigation of overgrown roads into campsites. It is a fully equipped camper with all the amenities of any hardside but in a more compact travel package.

Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 08/12/16 07:10pm

Kayteg1 wrote:

OK, got the real off-road Jeep.
Is it street legal? Why not pull TT with it?
Other option is toy hauler behind F250
I bet the Jeep tires cost way more than standard size on trailers.

Pull a TT behind a Jeep? Really? Only option would be one of the smaller pop-up tent campers.

* fixed quote

* This post was edited 08/12/16 07:21pm by Steve_in_29 *

Posted By: tommy salmon on 08/12/16 07:14pm

Kayteg1 - Jeep can barely run highway speeds at full throttle, and towing capacity is about 1,000 pounds, and if I roll it, break an axle, etc, I still need a way to get home. Toyhauler large enough to fit a jeep inside would be just as big as my motorhome, so no backcountry camping.

Posted By: tommy salmon on 08/12/16 07:19pm

Steve in 29 - Semper Fi Brother! Thanks for clearing up the cassette toilet question! You knew exactly what I was thinking! Now I get it, and will reconsider some.

Posted By: Steve_in_29 on 08/12/16 07:26pm

tommy salmon wrote:

Steve in 29 - Semper Fi Brother! Thanks for clearing up the cassette toilet question! You knew exactly what I was thinking! Now I get it, and will reconsider some.

Semper Fi back at you. (77-95)

If you have any questions about Outfitters feel free to ask via PM if you prefer.

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/12/16 08:17pm

Six Pac used to make fairly light weight small hard side campers with shower and toilet. Dad had one from the 70's (8 foot) and I had one from the 80's (8-1/2 foot). Both had shower and flushing toilet, 3 way fridge, etc, just like larger campers. I think Six Pac are now out of business, some time in the last few years, but you can still find them used on craigslist or rv trader, etc.

Capri Campers of Texas also makes a deluxe 8 foot hard side camper with full bath that isn't too heavy. They are very popular among the rodeo crowd, who pull heavy horse trailers behind their trucks.

01 International 4800 4x4 CrewCab DT466E Allison MD3060
69Bronco 86Samurai 85ATC250R 89CR500
98Ranger 96Tacoma
20' BigTex flatbed
8' truck camper, 14' Aristocrat TT
73 Kona 17' ski boat & Mercury 1150TB
92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6 285 BFG AT 4.56 & LockRite rear

Posted By: nomadictxn on 08/12/16 09:37pm

Old Days wrote:

Go look at a Lance 825 its a great camper for two people. With a few suspension up grades you can carry a 825. Just look at my profile.

X2 on the Lance 825. Great little camper for your truck. E rated tires and some stableloads would be a good start to carry that. I like the 825 so much, I wish I had a shortbed.

nomadictxn
2013 RAM 1500 QC 5.7, 3.92 4x4 6 sp.
2021 Flagstaff E Pro 19FBS

Posted By: Vinsil on 08/12/16 09:41pm

My boat weighs what you heep does (cruiser guy here, heep on purpose).

You've got enough truck, just some mods and you could step into a full hard side like have if you wish..

2017 Ford F-350, crewcab, 4x4, 6.7 diesel.
2016 Thunderjet Luxor 21' limited edition, Yamaha powered.
2016 Wolf Creek 840-SOLD, Arctic Fox 990 ordered.

Posted By: cooldavidt on 08/12/16 09:43pm

Decide on the camper first.
I like the Artic Fox, Silver Fox model
It is will made and insulated to keep the heat both in and out!

Posted By: jefe 4x4 on 08/12/16 10:19pm

I have to start out by saying, "I hate spellcheck software." Every time i make a post I must go back through edit and undo all the spell checking. The program has no tolerance for jargon, of which we use a lot. In addition, I can type as fast as I can think, so I don't watch the result until it's a paragraph too late. Editorial: OFF.
***************************************************************
Old Days and TX Gearhead make the same recommendations that I would.
The 825 is on the same short bed, narrow/less tall/not so wide platform as my older Lance 165-s with the same dimensions, and the same wet weight, except many of the accessories and cold weather details are much improved. Aluminum frame also. It is adequate for 2 people ONLY. I hope those 4 kids are out of there and you are in STAGE II (out of the house and out of your pocket).
Your Ford 2 series is close enough to beef up the suspension and tires. We've had good luck with our '98 Lance and considered dumping it for a new Lane 650, but I've upgraded so many systems that after weighing the cost vs. time left to use it, we decided to keep it and run it the rest of the way into the ground. The only downside I can see with the 650 is it's 3 or 4" taller because the fridge was moved up high on the edge of cab over bed area.
Another idea is to keep the MoHo and get a minimalist pop up as a contrast to you luxury RV. That way you could pick and chose which platform to use.
Just a word about hard side vs. Soft side. They each have things they can do better than the other.
Our 165-s is now insulated and very, very quiet overnight. So much so that if we're in a rowdy camp situation, the noise just doesn't matter. My brother John's 9.5 foot OUTFITTER! was filled with silt when we sat out a desert windstorm at the Hammers and the wind noise was pretty intense. In the Lance, we've slept in winds up to 90 mph and it was quiet. We did have some fear that the rig was going to go over though. But is was quiet! However, he does have a lower profile which helps when going, 'off-road' as you are want to do. Here's a pic of his '99 Ford II series diesel, long bed, stock height with OUTFITTER! It's about 16 inches lower than my '01 Dodge II series, short bed, 3 inch lift, larger tires, hard side:
[image]
Of course, his is palatial in the up position, compared to mine. You would think the Lance would weigh more than the OUTFITTER! by looking at the pic, but you'd be dead wrong. His wet weight is a few hundred pounds more. Some of that is in bigger tanks.
Also, if stealth appeals to you, the rule of thumb is to have an RV that doesn't change shape or look like anyone is home. i.e.: pop ups; pop outs; awnings.
After 15 years with the Lance we are so used to it, it's like an old pair of shoes. I know every creak and groan: what it can and cannot do.
One last thing: for short duration RV trips into the boonies, you can't beat a pop up. For longer duration trips, especially in bad weather, the hard side starts to tip the scales as there is nothing to set up.
Looking to downsize, you must decide how far down you want to go and what you can do with and do without. Keep us informed.It's always fun to watch the platform change process.
jefe

* This post was edited 08/12/16 10:35pm by jefe 4x4 *

'01.5 Dodge 2500 4x4, CTD, Qcab, SB, NV5600, 241HD, 4.10's, Dana 70/TruTrac; Dana 80/ TruTrac, Spintec hub conversion, H.D. susp, 315/75R16's on 7.5" and 10" wide steel wheels, Vulcan big line, Warn M15K winch '98 Lance Lite 165s, 8' 6" X-cab, 200w Solar

Posted By: tommy salmon on 08/12/16 11:21pm

We looked at a Palomino HS2902 with a slide out, the weight being well over what my door post sticker says. Sales guy says with airbags I'll be fine. I said "no thanks". Looking at a Travel Lite 890SBRX, weight being real close, sales guy says I should do Timbrens. Was interested in Outfitter, as they are almost around the corner from me, but WOW, too expensive! I do like the Outfitter stuff, very well made, small guy business, custom made to order, but just can't justify spending that much without trying something less expensive first. Will definitely check into the Lance 650 and 825 and compare them to the Travel Lite. Hopefully, I can find some decent used campers, since I don't know how we will like truck camping other than it's more comfortable than tent camping (former Marine - had enough of that) lol!

Posted By: Old Days on 08/13/16 06:19am

Colorado has more Truck Campers than any other state,so finding a good used one will not be hard to do.

Posted By: Grit dog on 08/13/16 07:43am

Kayteg1 wrote:

Why I don't get in this scenario?
Driving F250 short bed 4x4 and tow Jeep?
What for?


Focus. Op didn't ask for opinions on why he should tow a jeep or not.

2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Posted By: Grit dog on 08/13/16 07:57am

Vinsil wrote:

My boat weighs what you heep does (cruiser guy here, heep on purpose).

You've got enough truck, just some mods and you could step into a full hard side like have if you wish..


^This. You'd lose some of the weight cops on here immediately if if you'd have said you have a 350. Same truck, more springs in back. You're a gear head. Beef up the suspension a little and go find a hard side camper if that's what you're after.
However, if the springs on the '11 models are like my '13 and '15 F250s, they're pretty soft. I may think about adding springs rather than all the bolt on c rap I have. In the end you could buy a full set of leafs for less than the other stuff.
If you stay to the lighter side, like 3klbs or less, it will be super stable. Many haul much heavier campers and still tow.
I'll admit though, even with bags, swaybar, Stableloads, my little short bed srw tuck has some rock n roll to it especially on uneven trails. Like 1 wheel at a time potholes are the worst. I'm a newb to this TC thing but got 10-15kmi hauling it out of Seattle here to Alaska n back and out to the Midwest. Lots o mountains and plenty of dirt roads and it works. Dually would be ideal but it works fine as is.

Posted By: tommy salmon on 08/13/16 08:01am

Sorry, double posted.

Posted By: Oldtymeflyr on 08/13/16 08:14am

You have to figure out what you want. Hard side, soft side we have had both. Liked both and now have a Outfitter. We have used ours in below zero weather a number of times and soft sides are no problem.

We have an Outfitter shortbed because every inch counts. Out in the middle of the desert, what difference does it make. But a few campers going though the woods just a few inches taller us will clear the brush or give a good marker for where we might get into trouble.

Cassette toilets are popular, we have a dump at home so its not a big issue for us. You have a Class A and are up to speed on dumping. We also carry a blue sewage tank.

As far as stealthy camping, with a popup, we have been all over the east coast, In downtown DC they have no idea what a popup camper is, and with the roof lifted they don't have a clue. Its a problem for those who know truck campers because they know, but rest of the world is numb, funner than a crutch.

We have only been run off one time from a parking spot in over 9 years.

BTW, being from Colorado, take a look at TC's on the road. Its an interesting mix. To me there are a surprisingly large number of popup TC.

As far as the weight goes, if you built your jeep, you can deal with the weight.

Good luck.

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 08/13/16 05:20pm

If I had a pop-up camper, I think I would want one of those hard-side pop-ups.

Posted By: realter on 08/13/16 06:05pm

Check out the new Northstar Vista. Fits short bed or long bed and close your tailgate. 7'.

Posted By: Mike008 on 08/14/16 08:58am

The Adventurer 80GS might fit your needs. It's listed around 1600 lbs dry and is only 7' wide. I carry it on my 2001 f250 with a 7.3 with my Jeep in tow. Works out nicely for me.


[image]

Posted By: jefe 4x4 on 08/14/16 02:44pm

Mike, amazing how they cut down the tank capy and added a small slide out that equals the weight of my 165-s. I thought my tanks were small. But, nooh, propane breath, with 15 gal fresh; 6 gal. grey, and 6 gal black, that won't get you too many nights for two unless you are extremely anally retentive. The 'wet' weight is about the same on each. If you get the EOP pkg., the upgrades keep coming adding some great features and a lot of weight to the total. As a comparo, the 80GS is the same width and height, but a little shorter than my 8'6" floor. Did I read the brochure right and there's no bathroom sink? The E-W bed would be a deal breaker for me. Younger folks who don't mind entangling during the night or don't have to get up in the night won't have a problem. Without wings, storage seems to be at a premium. I do like the night shades and 4 gal hot water (mine is only 3 gal) but the Lance 650 has a lot more features with less weight and no small slide out. What's the total 'out' on the slide? 12 inches? Of course, every square inch on a TC that small means something.
It's all a trade off. Many moons ago, TC mfgrs. made their introductory/small product as small, light and compact as they could make it at the time. With newer tech and materials they keep upgrading but the bottom line on weight seems to remain about the same. The OP has enough info to make a lasting decision.
jefe

* This post was edited 08/14/16 02:59pm by jefe 4x4 *

Posted By: finaddict on 08/15/16 03:04pm

I run an Alpenlite Cimarron 835 on the back of my supercab long bed F-350 Diesel 4x4. I run a 2 1/2" Icom leveling kit in the front with Firestone airbags and Torque lift overload spring bushing extenders in the back. I run 35 x 12.5 Pro-comp extreme all terrains (load range "E") and the over-all system works very well. The camper is 2235 lb.s dry and probably sits at about 2800 lbs. loaded. I have taken this set up on light off-roading many times. For our roads in BC it is probably a little too tall for many trails as the trees aggressively try to fill in the break in the forest canopy over roads in very short order. I also toad a little Suzuki Sidekick lifted with 31.5 x 10.5 tires for the more extreme trails I want to travel. It only weights about 2300 lbs. so I am well under in towing weight.

Your set up with a toad Jeep would be a little more tow weight on a little less truck, so I would recommend that you get a trailer with electric brakes for your Jeep like Mike008 has for his set up. (By the way Mike, that is a great set up!). You should have no problem with the camper but I really think you need more braking power than you currently have.

Posted By: cooldavidt on 08/15/16 08:08pm

Any idea what your GVW is finaddict?

I just weighed my rig in Bellingham
Both axles
Just over the sticker GVW

Posted By: tommy salmon on 08/15/16 11:16pm

I am looking at trying to stay under 3,000 lbs wet weight for the truck camper and will be towing the Jeep 4-down. What set-up should I be looking for - Timbrens, airbags, etc? I have brakes for the Jeep already accounted for, just want to make sure that my truck (2011 Ford F250, diesel, 4x4, shortbed, Crewcab, cargo capacity of 2045 lbs) doesn't rock and roll on winding mountain roads. I am really wanting this to work, but don't want to regret making the same mistakes I made buying my Winnebago motorhome. We really prefer a hard side camper due to being able to use the bathroom on the road and for ease of set up upon arrival. Answers please?

Posted By: cooldavidt on 08/16/16 07:48am

What is your truck's payload?

Google for it

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