Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Travel Trailers: Can I tow this TT?

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Topic: Can I tow this TT?

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/15/16 08:06am

This will be our families first TT purchase and we are primarily going to be weekend warriors within the state of NC possibly SC and VA. We are tent campers now and want something we can still camp with should the weather not be the best.

I have a 2009 Chevrolet Silverado LT with a 5.3L V8
GVWR = 7000 lbs
GAWR = 3950 lbs (both front & rear axles)
Max towing capacity = 7500 lbs
Combined weight of cargo & occupants not to exceed 1507 lbs.

My truck weighs 6250 lbs with my family in it and full of fuel.

Looking at the Wildwood 26TBSS which is:
825 lb = Hitch weight
5828 lb = UVW
1987 lb = CCC

Also looking at the Wildwood 263BHXL which is:
682 lb = hitch weight
5854 lbs = UVW
1828 lb = CCC

Here is my math and how I understand what I've read on here...
7000 lbs subtract the 6250 lbs my truck weighs = 750 lbs
This 750 lbs is for hitch weight and anything else I put in the back of the truck. (also for the hitch should a add WDH)
This makes me think I'd already max out my towing capacity unless I did use a WDH to move some weight off the rear axle of the TV. Or do I need to move down to a lighter TT?

Thanks in advance for any advice...

Chad

Posted By: donn0128 on 05/15/16 08:48am

Yup, your overloaded long before you even load the trailer. Those numbers cited for the trailers are probably brochure dry weights. Adding things like battery, propane, water, food, pots and pans, clothes can all add to tongue weight. Start looking at trailers like Rpods, Aliners, large tent trailers if you want to tow happy.

Posted By: LVJJJ on 05/15/16 08:51am

Looks like you'll be real close if not over the max GVWR of your TV. Bear in mind that the UVW is the weight the TT leaves the factory, usually with no options or any extra weight in it. Manufacturers tend to lie about their weights, but I have heard that they actually weigh them today rather than guessing (I won't buy new anymore). Most of us tend to underestimate the actual weight of the items we install and load into the TV and TT. So, weight builds up quickly. We bought a used '04 Tahoe "Lite" that was supposed to weight 2900 lbs empty. With propane, A/C, some provisions (no water) it weighed 4300 lbs. we were shocked.

We had purchased an '04 GMC Envoy SLT 4.2 6ci(with a 10,000 lb total weight capacity) to tow our "Lite" TT. However it turned out with the 4300 lb TT combined with the surprising 4900 lb weight of the midsize Envoy put us right at max capacity. We are now looking for an older Chevy Tahoe or GMC Yukon with a 350 to replace the Envoy. I'd recommend looking for a much lighter TT.

1994 GMC Suburban K1500
2005 Trail Cruiser TC26QBC
1965 CHEVY VAN, 292 "Big Block 6" (will still tow)
2008 HHR
L(Larry)V(Vicki)J(Jennifer)J(Jesse)J(Jason)

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/15/16 08:53am

If you want to tow heavy you should get you individual axle weights from the truck. Full gas, family, stuff...etc..

Then take those weight and subtract from dor tag ratings..

Quote:

GAWR = 3950 lbs (both front & rear axles)

This will be more accurate..

But other things to consider..

1. What are the tire ratings at max air pressure? This may be a limiting factor.
2. Yes you need a WD hitch but first need to weigh trucks individual axles to see what your dealing with..
3. Find the weakest link to the truck.. This would most likely be the transmission. I would suggest installing the biggest trans cooler you could fit behind the grill.
4. Tell us the exact model truck you have.. 4 WD? Ext cab? Long bed? etc...

Mike L ... N.J.

2006 Silverado ext cab long bed. 3:42 rear. LM7 5.3 motor. 300 hp 350 ft lbs torgue @ 4000 rpms
2018 coachmen Catalina sbx 261bh

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/15/16 09:01am

Its a 2009 Chevrolet Silverado
4x4 with extended cab and 6.5' bed

Tires are rated at 2535 lbs at max pressure of 44 PSI

I will have try to run by scales today and get the individual axle weight.

* This post was edited 05/15/16 09:30am by cowtownup *

Posted By: jmtandem on 05/15/16 09:59am

Quote:

825 lb = Hitch weight

This is apparently a brochure number. Reality will be much higher. The trailer has a gross weight of around 7800 pounds and at thirteen percent would be a tongue weight of 1000 pounds. You might look at a bigger truck to tow this trailer.

'05 Dodge Cummins 4x4 dually 3500 white quadcab auto long bed.

Posted By: rexlion on 05/15/16 06:05pm

You need to trade your Chevy in for a Ford. [emoticon]

Mike G.
Liberty is meaningless where the right to utter one's thoughts and opinions has ceased to exist. That, of all rights, is the dread of tyrants. --Frederick Douglass
photo: Yosemite Valley view from Taft Point

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/15/16 07:56pm

Haha... You folks are not telling me what I was wanting to hear!!! I'm trying to look for something right around 5,000 lb UVW and less than 600 lb Hitch weight.. I need the bunk house for my kids and kinda like the outside door to the bathroom... I've looked at floor plans for days now...

Posted By: bradyk on 05/15/16 08:20pm

cowtownup wrote:

Its a 2009 Chevrolet Silverado
4x4 with extended cab and 6.5' bed

Tires are rated at 2535 lbs at max pressure of 44 PSI

I will have try to run by scales today and get the individual axle weight.

44lbs are more like passenger tires not LT already at a disadvantage.

2001 Chevrolet 2500hd Silverado LT 4x4 6.0L/4.10
2005 KZ Outdoorsmen 2605PF
Equal-i-zer 10K WDH
Champion 4000W Generator
Champion 2000W Generator x 2
Ken & Sandra
Yugi Dog, Jet Dog

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/15/16 08:26pm

Does anybody have any good news?

Posted By: AppFire on 05/15/16 08:32pm

Hey, your truck will pull it if you have the factory tow package. You will need a WDH and some type of sway control. Maybe something like an equalizer hitch or reese dual sway cams. Also you will have to have some LT tires on it. P rated tires are to squishy. Take your time and don't get in a hurry. I have a 2002 silverado with the tow package. I pulled my TT to Kansas last October and to Savannah a few weeks ago. My TT weighs as much as yours as its a bunkhouse also. No problems at all, just don't get in a rush.

2017 Silverado Crew cab LT Max tow package
2003 Jayco Qwest 244

Posted By: Mr Biggles on 05/15/16 09:48pm

With your truck loaded up with the family AND towing a 7000lb trailer , you will be way over the truck GVWR.

2011 F-150 FX4 5.0 3.73 Tow package
2013 Evergreen i-Go G239BH

Posted By: kknowlton on 05/15/16 10:51pm

No good news from here either. A WDH will itself weigh a lot (our Equal-i-zer weighs about 85 lbs, including the bars). You need to be looking at a trailer that has a fully loaded hitch weight of no more than 750-800 lbs (and I'm being generous here). You're looking at brochure "dry" weights, which are unrealistically low.

You might look into a hybrid trailer - full-height, so you don't have to pop it up, but has fold-down tented bed ends (sometimes a 3rd such bed along the side). It will have room for your family but be lighter. Good luck! It does take a lot of research to find the right RV.

Posted By: FLY 4 FUN on 05/15/16 10:58pm

There is good news and that is the fact you haven't bought the trailer yet! For sure listen to the good folks above educating you on realistic weights to tow behind your truck. They aren't being mean, they are telling you what many of us learned the hard way that towing a trailer that your truck is not rated for is a bad plan.

Spend more time viewing floorplans that have a gvwr below your max for your truck and then decide if you can live with those models. If you want a huge bunkhouse with two doors, several slides etc then a larger truck may be required.

2012 Dodge Ram 3500 crew SB 4x4 CTD 3.73
2015 Brookstone 315RL
2009 Colorado 29BHS (sold 2015)
05 Jayflight 29BHS (sold 2008)
99 Jayco Eagle 12SO (sold 2005)

Posted By: tonymull on 05/15/16 11:34pm

For towing, especially in that part of the country, with it's curvy mountainous roads, you'll be much happier with a smaller trailer. Something like 19-21' will suit you better. I'd stay under 4000lbs dry.

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/16/16 03:59am

AppFire wrote:

That Jayco quest you have is rather light /// 4300 lbs...

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/16/16 04:01am

The Jayco x213 is a good compromise... Very light...

But if you get your axle weights we will know more...

http://www.jayco.com/products/travel-trailers/2016-jay-feather/x213/

Posted By: 2012Coleman on 05/16/16 04:57am

cowtownup wrote:

I'm trying to look for something right around 5,000 lb UVW and less than 600 lb Hitch weight.. I need the bunk house for my kids and kinda like the outside door to the bathroom... I've looked at floor plans for days now...

This doesn't exist. If you calculate tongue weight at 13% of 5000 (as read on this forum) it gives you 650. Besides, unless you are planning on towing it empty, I'm not sure why you'd be concentrating on unloaded weight. Unless your trying to make it work by thinking I'll just load xxxx pounds of stuff into it.

Experience without good judgment is worthless; good judgment without experience is still good judgment!

2018 RAM 3500 Big Horn CTD
2018 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

Posted By: krobbe on 05/16/16 05:04am

Before you start spending money on tires, trans cooler, air bags, etc, find the TT bunkhouse layout that works for you and add 1500Lbs to it's dry weight. Multiply that by 15% to get a high end tongue weight.
Now look for a 2500/3500 to carry/tow the weight of your family and TT. Trade/sell your 1500 and buy a capable truck for what you want to do.
Tow/Camp happy.
I was in your position 4 years ago. I found a 3 year old bunkroom TT(in sig) that I wanted for $13k, and a 3/4 ton Suburban for $12k. Together, that was about what a brand new TT cost. I think it is cheaper to buy for the long term rather than upgrading every other year like so many end up doing.

* This post was edited 05/16/16 05:29am by krobbe *

Me'62, DW'67, DS'04, DD'07
'03 Chevy Suburban 2500LT 4WD Vortec8.1L 4L85-E 3.73 CurtClassV
'09 BulletPremier295BHS 33'4" 7200#Loaded 1100#Tongue Equal-i-zerHitch Tires:Kumho857
Pics

Posted By: APT on 05/16/16 07:43am

The good news is you found out before you purchased. More good news - your truck is probably worth $10-20k. That can buy you a very nice 2007.5+ GM 2500HD that you can tow nearly any travel trail with. Get the more capable truck first, then the RV. Or get the more capable truck and a used RV instead of new. You'll want something with closer to 2500 pounds or more to handle your family, 1000 pounds of trailer tongue weight, and a bed full of stuff.

A & A parents of DD 2005, DS1 2007, DS2 2009
2011 Suburban 2500 6.0L 3.73 pulling 2011 Heartland North Trail 28BRS
2017 Subaru Outback 3.6R
2x 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV (Gray and Black Twins)

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/16/16 12:39pm

Thanks again for the suggestions.. I'm going to continue to look at my options and try to find something that will work for my family and for my TV..

Posted By: 2012Coleman on 05/16/16 01:39pm

Have you seen the Lance 2185? It is a bunkhouse - 3 bunks. check out the link.

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/16/16 02:32pm

Look in your glove box for some RPO codes. Let us know what you have in regards to these...

I am pretty sure the RPO codes that pertain to your thread are what rear you have and if you have the cooling package.
:
GU4-3.08
GU6-3.42
K5L-HD cooling pkg.
KC4-ext. engine oil cooler
Z82-HD traveling equip. pkg
G80-locking diff
GU5-3.23
GT4 or 5-3.73
Z85 handling/trailering suspension pkg

Also if you do have a factory hitch read that label and see if its rated for weight distribution.. Let us know that ..

Those trucks can tow from 6000 lbs to 9400 lbs depending on the rear and cooler package per the towing guides. You can easily add the oil and trans cooler to make it a 9400 tow rate vehicle..

Your next limiting factor are the axle weights.. You would need to post that to get an idea on max tongue weight..

Full fuel and family weight at the scales. Let us know those #'s..

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/16/16 02:59pm

Also those lance trailers that was posted below all have a shower pan and no tub.. Without the tub the curtain is short and there is not enough lip on the pan.. You end up getting water everywhere..

Trying to help you find similar to the wildwood you like but lighter would be the jayco 26BHSW

This has the bathroom door like the wildwood.. Best of all its in the back not the front..

Bunks rated for 600 lbs... WOW!!!

And best of all it has opposing couch and dinette.. Not that stupid couch/dinette on the same side where your neck hurts from watching TV on an angle..

Well really best of all is the outside kitchen..

Also
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) 4815
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) 580
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) 6250
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) 1435

These are dealer stock only so hurry and find one...

Video

Jayco 26 BHSW

Link..

Jayco

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/16/16 08:16pm

....

* This post was edited 05/16/16 08:46pm by cowtownup *

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/16/16 08:45pm

WOW... That Jayco 26BHSW would really serve us well... Thanks for the link to that one.. I'm not sure how to interpret this sticker...

Posted By: AppFire on 05/17/16 10:10am

lawrosa wrote:

AppFire wrote:

That Jayco quest you have is rather light /// 4300 lbs...

Actually after I rebuilt it, new roof, floors and customizing my weight according to the scales are a bit over 5600lbs. I have no problem pulling it.

Posted By: krobbe on 05/17/16 01:02pm

From your RPO sticker:
GT4 = AXLE REAR, 3.73 RATIO (DUP WITH 5 X 1)
G80 = AXLE POSITRACTION, LIMITED SLIP
Z60 - Suspension Package, High-Performance
Z82 = TRAILER PROVISIONS, SPECIAL EQUIPMENT, H.0.
KNP = COOLING SYSTEM TRANS, HD

Here is a LINK to look up all of the GM RPO codes.

cowtownup wrote:

I'm not sure how to interpret this sticker...

* This post was edited 05/17/16 01:17pm by krobbe *

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/17/16 06:05pm

krobbe wrote:

Yup.. That truck is more then cabable of towing...

Quote:

Heavy Duty Trailering Pkg includes trailering hitch platform and 2.5inch receiver with 2inch adapter, 7-wire harness, integrated trailer-brake controller and heavy duty automatic locking rear differential

Also odd is in the towing manual it lists a 3:42 rear and Cooling package could tow 9400 lbs.. ( this cooling package includes an engine external oil cooler which I dont think you have)

It lists 3:73 rear ( Yours as towing only 7500 lbs) But you also have the Trans cooler. You also have the 4 speed trans M30 RPO which is a 4L60E. Thats the same trans in my S10 pickup)

IMO if and when you tow watch your trans temps.. I put the biggest cooler I could fit.. That was the weakest link in my truck. My 4.3l enginge never runs hot but the trans did the one time I towed without a cooler..

Your trans will die a quick death.. These trans run Hot..

Now with the 3:73 and that trans cooler..( May need to upgrade cooler) You should be able to easily tow in the 9400 range. Because the only difference in the two tow ratings with the cooling package is the fact that one has the cooling package that includes an engine oil cooler.

I think the trucks with the 9400 tow rating may have a 6 speed trans though and why they are given that rating of 9400lbs..

With that said The only items I would like to knw on top of my blabbering above is..

1. Does it have the factory brake controller? ( If not get a P3 and nothing else)
2. Does your dash tell you trans temps
3. Whats the rating on the hitch plate say for weight distribution?
4. Weigh the truck fully loaded like I stated and get individual axle weights. Subtract your door plate #'s from them and let us know..

In summary you have a good truck there with all proper options.

IMO your limiting factors will be trans heat..( But not sure until you tow)
And your axle weights ( will not know until you weigh)

Hope I am helping you and sry for the long post..

Posted By: cowtownup on 05/17/16 06:53pm

Your help is much appreciated. To answer a few of your questions:

1. I have already installed a Reese Pilot brake controller from pulling a 20' enclosed trailer and an open car trailer with electric brakes.
2. My dash does have the trans temp readout.
3. I don't see any info on or around the hitch plate. where would it be?
4. n/a yet.

I've found a few TT's ranging from 4300 lbs to 5100 lbs that I think would suit me well and I wouldn't be afraid at all to try and tow one of these... Here are a few I like the best...

Vibe Extreme Lite 243BHS

http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=216&ShowParent=1&ModelID=2228#Main

Jay Feather 26BHSW

http://www.jayco.com/products/travel-trailers/2016-jay-feather/26bhsw/

Wildwood 230BHXL

http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=178&ShowParent=1&ModelID=2413#Main

Vibe 250BHS

http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=216&ShowParent=1&ModelID=2230#Main

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/17/16 07:09pm

I would really go with the jayco.. Those big bunks are so much nicer then sleeping in those small coffin bunks as I call them..

Also you will apreciate that couch that opposes the dinette which the others dont have..

Youll get tired of breaking down that murphy style bed couch in the other units...

Its got a light tongue that jayco and your ahead of the game compared to the others...

Ill look up the rating on that hitch if I can find info..

Also Ill look into those campers. Jayco give the full 2 year warranty...

Im not a fan of forest river..

Whats you budget?
How many kids and how old?
What are your average trans temps?

Posted By: jenoble99 on 05/17/16 07:14pm

cowtownup wrote:

Are you certain that your truck has the 5.3 engine? I also have an '09 with a 5.3 and it has the 6 speed trans. My understanding is that in that vintage the 5.3 trucks got the 6 speed and the 4.8 v8 trucks had the 4 speed. With the 5.3, the gear ratio max is 3.42, though a heavy tow option may change that(not sure), but with the heavy tow option the 6.0 was the usual power plant. My truck with the 5.3, 3.42 gears, and the hd cooling(trans and engine oil cooler) the tow rating is 9500 lbs. Our trailer is around 6800 lbs ready to camp. The truck handles it well. If I had to lodge a complaint it would be a lower gear ratio. I know the 6 speed with 3.42 gives a lower final drive ratio in the first 4 gears, and it is way better than my '05 with the 4 speed, 5.3 combo, but 4.10 would let it hold 5th gear(first overdrive) longer.

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/17/16 08:02pm

jenoble99 wrote:

Are you certain that your truck has the 5.3 engine?

First introduced as Generation III in 1999, the Generation IV Vortec 5300 engines share all the improvements and refinements found in other Generation IV engines. At present, six versions of the 5300 engine are in production: 3 iron blocks (LY5 LMG, and LMF)

He has LY5 in his RPO code

Posted By: krobbe on 05/17/16 08:05pm

jenoble99 wrote:

The RPO codes tell the story.
LY5 : ENGINE, GAS, 8 CYL 5.3L
M30 : TRANSMISSION, AUTO 4 SPD, HMD, 4L60E, ELECTRONIC
GT4 : AXLE REAR, 3.73 RATIO

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/17/16 08:19pm

Quote:

3. I don't see any info on or around the hitch plate. where would it be?

RPO code VR4.. This is a weight distribution receiver you have...( First pic)
RPO code Z82 is the hitch part and ball. Second pic) Do you have this part?

If you dont have the second pic and the bars make sure you get the heavier 1000 lb bars,, Dont let dealer sell you the lighter 750 lb bars..

Here is a sticker from a 2013 silverado

[image]

Total wd package..

[image]

* This post was edited 05/17/16 08:39pm by lawrosa *

Posted By: lawrosa on 05/17/16 08:50pm

We should let this thread rest a bit until you get the truck weighed..

Full family and full tank of fuel and gear you may carry..

Your axle limits may be the limiting factor..

Get individual axle weights!!!!!!

Example.. My s 10 pulling my camper in the sig only leaves me 500 lbs left on the rear axle for stuff. I added a battery andput a canoe on my trucks pipe racks..

Basically I am maxed. I dont carry water.Just add food and clothes to camper..

With that said I travel alone in the truck and the wife and kids follow me in the car..

We dont go far. PA, NJ mostly.. 2 hours is the longest I drove away from home..I do state parks with no hook ups..

I go to one resort a year with a water park in the campground...

You dont need to go far to camp.. Its all the same really with different scenery...

Posted By: misterpowertools on 05/17/16 10:21pm

you don't need LT tires and airbags, etc. You'll get to max payload before max trailer weight. Watch your loaded weight, adjust the WD bars properly, use the sway control and air your tires up from the sticker psi... not necessarily max. Add bilstien HD shocks to the rear if yours don't cut it or do all 4 if its time. Don't tow in OD if the manual says not to. Maybe you'll need more cooling, b
ut you can give it a try first.

2012 Nissan Titan KC Pro4X
2015 Genesis Supreme 19SS
2010 Honda EU3000is Gen
1968 Beautiful Wife
2006 Baby girl

Posted By: cowtownup on 06/08/16 07:20pm

Well, I ended up buying a used Jayco JayFlight 26BH. It weighs around 4800 lbs dry and came with a Reese WD hitch. I pulled it home today and my truck pulled it pretty good. I think once I get it loaded and it weighs in from 5500 to 5800 lbs then it will be all my truck wants.. Its in really good shape from what I can tell and our first trip is weekend after next... My kids are PUMPED UP!!!

Posted By: AppFire on 06/08/16 08:46pm

Good for you, We just got back from a long weekend camping trip to Asheville. Have fun....

Posted By: rbpru on 06/08/16 09:30pm

Well the CAT scales are your friend. On your next trip, stop at the local truck stop and weigh your rig.

You will get the front, rear and TT axle weights. No guessing, no opinions, no what ifs; just the hard numbers.

You can drop the TT and weigh the TV only. Then you know the change in axle weights due to the trailer.

My 25 ft. Dutchman tows great but it puts my F-150 at its max cargo limit.

Twenty six foot 2010 Dutchmen Lite pulled with a 2011 EcoBoost F-150 4x4.

Just right for Grandpa, Grandma and the dog.

Posted By: IndyCamp on 06/08/16 09:54pm

cowtownup wrote:

Congrats!

Seeing the kids excited makes all of the money we spend worthwhile.

We originally towed the trailer in my sig with a 2013 Silverado, 5.3, 3.42.

We took that combo through the Smokies and the Ozarks, and it did OK. We decided to upgrade to a bigger truck after going through a bad storm in Tennessee and getting blown into the lane next to us. It's been the best decision we ever made. The 2500 feels much more stable and with a 3,000 pound payload, we have the added benefit of being able to load the bed with as much gear and firewood as we need.

Anyway, have fun and safe travels!

2018 Grand Design Reflection 315RLTS
2014 RAM 2500 6.4L HEMI

Posted By: FrankShore on 06/08/16 10:03pm

Try a Lance 1495 or 1575 or even the 1685. They're very well built trailers. Look on their site for The Lance Factory Tour

2014 F-250
2014 Minnie Winnie 2351DKS (Traded In-Burnout-Use A Surge Protector!)
2015 Arctic Fox 22G (Great Trailer But Heavy - Traded In)
2018 Lance 1685 w/ Solar & 4 Seasons Package
1999 Beneteau 461 Oceanis Yacht
En Norski i en Fransk båt - Dette må jeg se!

Posted By: cowtownup on 06/19/16 05:38pm

We had a successful first trip this weekend. I took the time to weigh it at our local cotton gin. I had to weigh front axle, pull forward and get combined weight of TT & TV and the. Pull forward and get weight of TT axke, then subtract to get the rear TV axle weight.

Without WD Hitch hooked up
Front - 3260
Rear - 4080
TT - 4940
Total - 12,280

WD hooked up (3rd chain link) more WD
Front - 3540
Rear - 3600
TT. - 5140
Total - 12,280

WD hooked up (4th chain link). Less WD
Front - 3440
Rear - 3760
TT. - 5080
Total. - 12,280

I went over my TV GVWR by 140-200 lbs depending on which chain link I set my WD hitch at but I had 2 kids bicycles, a cooler full of ice and maybe 40 pieces of firewood in back of TV. If I would move the cooler and bikes to the TT that would help that some. I feel good about my TV pulling this TT but I'm really glad I didn't buy the heavier TT that I initially wanted.

Thanks again for the help throughout this thread... Good times ahead for my little clan...

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