Coast Resorts Open Roads Forum: Opinion Needed - Repacking Wheel Bearings and found THIS

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Topic: Opinion Needed - Repacking Wheel Bearings and found THIS

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/21/16 04:51pm

I am about to make a long trip so I went to repack the bearings for the first time on my new to me 2003 sunnybrook 5er. The previous owner told me he had to replace an axle due to a wheel coming off at some point. Well i repack the front left wheel first which is the older axle and all is well. I went to repack the rear left axle which is the newer 2012 labeled dexter but found what appears to be significant damage with a possible repair job. The bearings and races look okay but the spindle shaft is marred up and appears to have been partially polished on top like a repair. The washer that goes under the castle nut likewise looks to be damaged or sort of roadside repair as the outside looks ground down to a smaller diameter. Weird thing is it seems to fit the spindle shaft pretty good... I don't know what to do here as this is above my level of expertice. Am I okay to repack the bearings and put back together? It was nice and tight before I removed the wheel. For what it'a worth the previous owner said he replaced the china bearings with timken which it appears he did not lie on that but seems to me something happened he didn't tell me about. How should i proceed?

[image]

* This post was edited 04/21/16 10:47pm by kyle86 *

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/21/16 04:57pm

For some reason it's not letting mw post pics...

Posted By: darsben on 04/21/16 05:04pm

read
http://forums.motorhomemagazine.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15775751.cfm
to learn how to post picture

Traveling with my best friend my wife!

Posted By: IAMICHABOD on 04/21/16 05:24pm

Even better Click Here for the easy way to post pictures.

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Posted By: midnightsadie on 04/21/16 05:58pm

from what your seeing,and telling ,it was cleaned up, and fitted with the best bearings out there, and it was good to go when you took it off, ME,I,d pack it and watch the temp on it at each stop. I,d go on the trip. from your words it sounds safe.

Posted By: wa8yxm on 04/21/16 06:26pm

kyle86 wrote:

For some reason it's not letting mw post pics...

Follow this link
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2010........ums/PhotoUpload/RV.NET-Photo-Upload.html

Then follow the instructions there, Select and upload photo.. Copy and paste the link it gives you

NOTE: Paste link in the main editor DO NOT click on one of the icons above the editor window,, The proper HTML code is already in the link.

The photo goes to an account on Dropbox. which is for Forum members to use, Forget who set it up but I used it just a few days ago so I know it still works.

Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
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Posted By: Dave H M on 04/21/16 06:41pm

I would take midnightsadie's route. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

BTW, what is the country of origin on the Timken bearings?

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/21/16 10:40pm

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/21/16 10:47pm

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/21/16 11:00pm

Dave H M wrote:

I would take midnightsadie's route. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

BTW, what is the country of origin on the Timken bearings?

They were Timkin USA bearings. That said what concerns me some is the bearing is a tad loose over the area it rides on the spindle (where the rotational gouges are near the threads. Also the axle threads are also somewhat marred as shown in one of the pics above. Lastly when I towed the trailer, to ME it somewhat looked like one of the axles was bent a tad. The wheels were not exactly in line with eachother and looked to be at slighly different angles top to bottom.. I think it's called camber? Anyway I just chocked it up to the trailer sitting for a while needing to be used but now I'm thinking maybe this "new" axle was really a damaged axle some shady shop sold him knowing he would be 1000+ miles away before the next problem.

Part of me says Slap it back together and rock n roll. The other part says don't get stuck in the middle of the desert kicking yourself because a replacement axle is only $235 with brakes.

I found some replacement washers by the way. They were in a bag the previous owner gave me when I bought it along with a spare set of china bearings. I also checked the hubs with a thermometer and the ceneter did not get very hot.

What brought about this while thing, is I've had issues with brakes dragging causing the truck to rev hard coming from a complete stop so I dug in and decided to repack all the bearing while I did an entire inspeciton. One hub ran hotter than the rest which I have replaced. That one had burnt grease. Then this is the 2nd one I pulled apart and was surprised at the gouges and home made washer.

I spoke to the original owner today on the phone and he advised he knew nothing about it. He said he had to stay a week in a hotel in upstate new york while they put in this "new" axle. To me it looks like they gave him a "repaired" axle and sold it as new. He says he never took it apart and his advice was to put new bearings on it.

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/21/16 11:07pm

midnightsadie wrote:

Sort of. I like the timken usa bearings for sure. especially since I just bought a set of nationals from advance and were chinas. Look at the pics though since I just got them to post. If this "clean up" is normal on trailer axles, I will just put the bearings back in and rock-n-roll. I was just not sure if this type of wear was normal for wheel bearing spindles. This is my first trailer.

Posted By: byronlj on 04/21/16 11:20pm

The spindle obviously had a bearing fail and weld to it, but the repair looks OK. I wouldn't worry about it but in the future you may want to chase the threads with a die.
Dave

byronlj
2013 Dynamax Trilogy 3800RL

Posted By: westend on 04/22/16 12:41am

-The spindle could use some better repair. If nothing else, take a file to any galling or raised areas. If it's beyond your pay grade, a trailer shop could weld on the spindle and have the repair done right.

If installing the repacked bearing and wheel results in a good result with no runout, you might be good to use it like that.

'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/22/16 02:28am

I'd throw that axle out in a heartbeat. Since you suspect the axle is bent, and there is no way of knowing if the surfaces locating the bearings are concentric, and the bearing fit is poor, junk it.

Posted By: malexander on 04/22/16 03:28am

lol. I'm on both sides of the fence.
I'd probably think about just packing it & go with it.
BUT otoh, a new axle, with brakes $235. Get the new one.
You say the old one appears to be bent. By the time you get it out, check it for "true", you're money ahead to just replace it. YMMV

2007 Fleetwood Bounder 38N 330 Cat DP, 2008 GL1800 Goldwing, Cessna 150 & 172, Rans S6S Coyote, Vans RV9A. Lifetime NRA, EAA, Good Sam member

Posted By: darsben on 04/22/16 04:20am

If you plan no long trips you might just repack and watch for a while.
If you plan long trips like to Colorado then definitely replace the whole thing.
You will get stuck in the desert on a Saturday afternoon miles from nowhere and when you get somewhere they will not have the part in stock. When they order the part it will be the wrong one or the price will be astronomical because "they got you"
Nothing turns a family off on RVing more than being stuck somewhere for a couple of days.
Take no chances do the whole job

Posted By: Tvov on 04/22/16 05:12am

That looks pretty chewed up to me. I'd want to have that replaced. When are you leaving? It'll probably be fine for a trip or two, but seems like there would be progressive damage occurring the longer you tow it. How long ago did the damage and "repair" occur? If it was recently, then possibly the bearings just don't show damage yet.

Since the previous owner seems like he was honest with you and told you about the repair, I'd leave him out of this and just go get it replaced.

_________________________________________________________
2021 F150 2.7
2004 21' Forest River Surveyor

Posted By: Bill1374 on 04/22/16 05:20am

Not good. Time for a new axle. Especially if you say the inner race is turning on the spindle. In that case, it's only a matter of time before failure. My guess is the original shop just did enough to get it back together and on the road but gave a high bill.

KZ Montego Bay in Florida
Rockwood lite up north
2016 HD Street Glide, 12 Fatboy for cruisin

Posted By: icanon on 04/22/16 05:29am

Heavy spalling on spindle it would cost to much to repair, machining, plating and finish macine to dimensions. Be safe and replace the whole assembly.

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Posted By: 3oaks on 04/22/16 05:53am

Lynnmor wrote:

I'd throw that axle out in a heartbeat. Since you suspect the axle is bent, and there is no way of knowing if the surfaces locating the bearings are concentric, and the bearing fit is poor, junk it.

X2

It is junk, period. Fixed, not repaired, only good enough to get you out of a bind. Replace the axil or at least the spindle.

Posted By: DownTheAvenue on 04/22/16 06:04am

kyle86 wrote:

Part of me says Slap it back together and rock n roll. The other part says don't get stuck in the middle of the desert kicking yourself because a replacement axle is only $235 with brakes.

I think you have summarized the issue very well. Is it worth the risk for you for $235? That defective axle may well work just fine for many years to come. But what if something fails? The failure will not be in your driveway while you are winterizing, I promise. What if the failure causes the wheel to come off while driving 60 MPH and that loose wheel crashes into a car and kills someone? What if that failure while driving causes you to loose control and maybe flip the trailer, tow vehicle and your family?

For me, it is a no brainer. Replace the axle.

Posted By: John&Joey on 04/22/16 06:13am

Sounds like, and looks like you have a bearing race that is spinning on the axle. IMO, junk and a danger to you and anyone else on the road.

Posted By: Dave H M on 04/22/16 06:17am

On second thought after seeing the pics, for the price you quoted that axle would be going to the scrap yard.

Posted By: WNYBob on 04/22/16 06:53am

It looks like you have a 5er and those are not light! I'd replace the whole thing. Axles take a tremendous amount of pressure from the weight of the trailer, then we twist them getting into a camping site.

We go camping to have fun, so don't spend it with axle issues, replace now!

Posted By: Walaby on 04/22/16 08:04am

I vote replace the axle. It could be okay, but for that price, I would rather have the comfort of knowing it WILL be okay.

Mike

Im Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
2017 Ram 3500 CTD (aka FRAM)
2019 GrandDesign Reflection 367BHS

Posted By: dodge guy on 04/22/16 10:27am

After you price out what it would cost to have the 5'er flatbeded to a repair facility, that $235 axle plus labor (total bill may be around $500) will seem like nothing. I would replace it.

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Posted By: Dakzuki on 04/22/16 10:46am

If that is from a previous bearing failure the heat has likely changed the properties of the steel....not for the better. Cracks can also begin in divots like that and propagate through the part leading to failure. I'd scrap it for the few hundred bucks involved.

2011 Itasca Navion 24J
2000 Chev Tracker Toad

Posted By: Arcamper on 04/22/16 11:48am

dodge guy wrote:

After you price out what it would cost to have the 5'er flatbeded to a repair facility, that $235 axle plus labor (total bill may be around $500) will seem like nothing. I would replace it.

Not to mention if it is bent you may have excessive tire wear and will have that cost also. If it were me and I planned on keeping it I would fix it right and not worry about it.

2016 Montana 3100RL Legacy(LT's,Joy Rider 2's,disc brakes)
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Posted By: Airstreamer67 on 04/22/16 12:15pm

Replace that thing. It looks like a nightmare.

I saw an 18-wheeler in front of me lose two wheels from an axle. One of the wheels rolled to the left, crossed a wide median and hit oncoming traffic. The other rolled into a field and just about climbed a tree.

You don't want to go there.

Posted By: ddndoug on 04/22/16 01:13pm

I wouldn't want to drive that across town let alone across the state or country. From looking at the pictures, there has been some serious gaulding on that spindle. Replace it!

An axle for $235 with brakes? Make sure you get all the details, that sounds extremely cheap. Are you sure that's not just the spindle?

Doug

2009 Four Winds Hurricane 33T
F53 Ford Chassis w/Triton V-10

Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/22/16 02:51pm

ddndoug wrote:

Agree, he needs the details, but here is an example of a bare axle for $124. axle

Posted By: phillyg on 04/22/16 03:15pm

midnightsadie wrote:

X2, check at each stop with an infrared thermometer. Caveat: if you start to see unusual wear on the tire, you need a new spindle and alignment.

--2005 Ford F350 Lariat Crewcab 6.0, 4x4, 3.73 rear
--2016 Montana 3711FL, 40'
--2014 Wildcat 327CK, 38' SOLD

Posted By: John&Joey on 04/22/16 04:29pm

phillyg wrote:

midnightsadie wrote:

X2, check at each stop with an infrared thermometer. Caveat: if you start to see unusual wear on the tire, you need a new spindle and alignment.

So in your "expert" opinion that doesn't look like the outside bearing is spinning on the axle?

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/22/16 04:32pm

ddndoug wrote:

A local welder quoted $150 to chop and weld on a new spindle. I was quoted a bare dexter axle for $115 plus tax. A dexter axle with bearings, hubs, brakes, etc ready to bolt up was 218 plus tax. Another local shop had same for 260 plus tax. I was very shocked the price was so resonable. A local rv shop said $200 labor to install but to be honest I would rather just do myself. The local welder recommended I cut a couple short 4x4s cut on the end at 45 degrees then just drive the front axle up on them allowing the rear axle to hang. Is this the way to do it? My 5ver weighs 8000 lbs on the scale but 6500 on the axles.

Posted By: westend on 04/22/16 05:22pm

You can run it up on blocks but you're going to have to stabilize both axles and the frame. For me, I'd rather jack the axles up and put some stands under them. I block the frame with whatever is handy, usually wooden blocks.

Posted By: buc1980 on 04/22/16 06:17pm

It looks for me that something get hot on the spindle.If I was you I will replace the whole thing you don't want to get stock on the road somewhere.

2017 Ford F350 DRW,2005 Kountry Star 35ft,16750 lb weight on SAILUN tire,6 points LIPPERD Level-up.New Mor/ryde IS suspension install.Full body paint 2022.RV flex roof 2023

Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/22/16 07:00pm

buc1980 wrote:

It looks for me that something get hot on the spindle.

It looks to me like someone heated the spindle and then bent it straight using a long pipe. I believe that it now is straight enough to use as a mailbox post.

Posted By: time2roll on 04/22/16 08:15pm

+1 for new axle (or both).

Actually I might go up in weight rating and option disk brakes. [emoticon]

2001 F150 SuperCrew
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Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/23/16 12:52am

smkettner wrote:

+1 for new axle (or both).

Actually I might go up in weight rating and option disk brakes. [emoticon]

Since he was concerned about the cost, I didn't suggest that. I went up in axle tube size after I found my axles were bent, but I have regretted using the junk brakes.

Posted By: Dutch_12078 on 04/23/16 06:16am

The outer bearing surface is shot. Period. For the relatively small price, replace the axle instead of possibly losing the wheel when you least expect it, risking damage to the trailer and possibly someone passing by.

Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F53 chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
Bigfoot Automatic Leveling System
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox baseplate

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/23/16 10:54pm

More bad news.... I pulled the front axle hub on the other side and found another burnt and chewed up spindle. It didn't even have a cotter pin [emoticon]

So now I need 2 axles. At this point I might as well go ahead and upgrade both axles. At least I found all this out now instead of later. After taking off 3 wheel I already know of 4 bearing failures. My trailer axle weighs in at 6700 lbs. each axle is rated at 3500. The gwvr of the trailer is 10,000 lbs. That means the trailer was built with too small of axle to handle even the gvwr. How sad. So what axle should. I upgrade to? I'm thinking 2 axles, new brakes, new springs, new shackles, and new hardware. Maybe even new tires.

Posted By: Jarlaxle on 04/24/16 06:14am

smkettner wrote:

+1 for new axle (or both).

Actually I might go up in weight rating and option disk brakes. [emoticon]

But then he'd have to replace TWO axles...which he has to do anyway. [emoticon]

Maybe 5000 or 5500lb axles. What is the factory tire size?

John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ">
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Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/24/16 12:47pm

Just think, there are folks on here that snipe at me about axle related failures. This is what you see when you have the spindles professionally serviced. Yes, I've seen cars with no cotter pin.

I have learned to never buy another 3500 lb axle and 10" drum brakes. They are designed poorly and will be a never ending source of wear and failures. 2-3/8" axle tubes are another thing on my no fly list.

It appears you will need 5200 lb axles and 12" brakes. You will have to measure and see what is available. Dexter did make me custom axles, hopefully they still offer that service if you need it. If for some reason you can't go to 12" brakes, then I would spend the bucks for disk brakes to avoid the poor 10" drum brakes.

Never use Chinese bearings, find Timken bearings that are made in USA.

A little of my information is available here with the usual sniping: Brakes, etc.

Posted By: time2roll on 04/24/16 02:22pm

I would cover the full trailer GVWR if buying axles. So please post the trailer GVWR.

Posted By: Slownsy on 04/24/16 04:02pm

He already did 10000lb GVWR.
Frank.

Frank
2012 F250 XLT
4x4 Super Cab
8' Tray 6.2lt, 3.7 Diff.

Posted By: John&Joey on 04/24/16 04:04pm

FWIW, if you upgrade axles you may need new tires/rims which will add to the expense.

A friend has a Cedar Creek with the same undersize axle problem. He pulled it all over the country and kept having problems. Had it professionally service and the repair guy couldn't believe it to the point he called the maker. Cedar Creek told him that they don't expect people to tow with full tanks. [emoticon]

Posted By: time2roll on 04/24/16 06:51pm

A pair of 5200 or 6000 pound axles with discs would be going under my 10,000 GVWR trailer.
OEM should have been 4400 pound minimum IMO.

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/24/16 08:45pm

I was wrong, the GVWR of the trailer is 8750, not 10k.

I'm going to redneck trailer supplies tomorrow to price out a set of axles. So I need to ask for 5200 lb dexter axles and 12" brakes. My wheels are already 6 lug on 5.5:

Posted By: time2roll on 04/24/16 09:32pm

Yes maybe 4400 pound would be fine on 8750 GVWR.
Price difference to 5200/6000 could be minor.
See what they recommend.

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/24/16 09:58pm

What weight rating leafs should I buy?

Posted By: time2roll on 04/24/16 11:27pm

afaik springs should be same as axle or next size up so 2200 to 2500.
But again see if what they recommend makes sense.

Posted By: dodge guy on 04/25/16 05:16am

You don`t want too heavy of an axle. you want the springs to absorb the shock from the road. too heavy an axle will make it ride so hard things inside may break over time.

Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/25/16 05:54am

kyle86 wrote:

What weight rating leafs should I buy?

You would buy the springs that are rated for the maximum load. You might run into an issue with spring length. Measure the distance between the bolt holes in the frame. Short, stiff springs will result in a rougher ride. Since you have a Redneck supply, they should be very helpful.

And tell them NO to any Chinese bearings.

Posted By: Turtle n Peeps on 04/25/16 09:00am

Lynnmor wrote:

And tell them NO to any Chinese bearings.

Pretty hard to do now days. Even Timken went to China. [emoticon]

Link

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Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/25/16 09:32am

Just installed made in USA Timken bearings. I know of others that did the same. Look at my link in a previous post.

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/25/16 10:31am

I'm going to order factory preassembled dexters. Not sure if they use china bearings but i will be inspecting them yearly.

Redneck recommended 6000 lb axles pre assembled with 12x2 brakes. Is that overkill? I mentioned 5200 but he said parts were harder to get for a 5200.

Anyway price for a 6000 rated pre assembled dexter is $278 plus tax (298otd) which is roughly a $60 increase over a preassembled 3500.

Posted By: myredracer on 04/25/16 10:45am

I installed US-made Timken bearings last fall. Got them at a local industrial/commercial bearing supplier. I said I wanted US ones or none at all. They said theirs are all US-made ones so they can't that hard to find out there. I will gladly get some for folks for a small handling fee... [emoticon]

Not sure why higher rated springs & axles one or two sizes would be an issue? I would say better to have stiffer to tame the bounce in the rear end and improved handling. Our particular TT would normally have 3500 lb axles but we have 2 x 4400 lb axles. No downside to this for us and there is a lot less bounce and handling is improved. Also installed shocks along with this upgrade and together make a world of difference. I would say going too stiff may not be good but it seems to me that FW frames are much stronger than TTs.

* This post was edited 04/25/16 12:34pm by myredracer *

Posted By: time2roll on 04/25/16 10:58am

I do wonder if TT sway issues could be reduced some with higher rated springs.

Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/25/16 01:27pm

Stiffer springs just might help a bit with sway.

Heavier axle assemblies will decrease the sprung/unsparing ratio. That can result in a rougher ride. Think of it this way, the axle is easier to knock out of the way, when encountering a bump, if it is lighter. I doubt that it will be a serious issue, but it is one reason to not go overboard with axle weights.

I doubt that parts would be a problem with any of the axles you are considering.

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/25/16 05:05pm

I just ordered 2 complete 5200 lb axles. The sales rep at redneck trailer advises me dexter now sells what's called a 6000 lb light and a 6000 lb heavy. The light is actually what used to be called the 5200. The difference is the thickness of the axle tube wall. The bearings and brakes are essensially the same. I got the ez lube axles which I was told was standard nowdays. The out the door price was $581 for both axles assembled with brakes and my custom spring perch 68.5. Will be 2 weeks till they arive which gives plenty of time to figure out which springs to get. He recommended PR5 springs rated at 2900 lbs each but I think that's overkill for a trailer with 8750 gvwr. The step down is a pr4 which is 2400 rating each.

Posted By: Lynnmor on 04/25/16 05:18pm

Sounds good. I guess that you still need to add u-bolts and associated hardware. While we are helping you spend money, did you consider wet bolts?

Pump grease thru that grease fitting to flush out the dirt and then never use it again. You need some good wheel bearing grease, I was using the recommended Valvoline when my CHINESE bearings failed, so ain't taking any chances on either again.

Posted By: kyle86 on 04/25/16 05:41pm

I don't wana buy a whole axle just to pull it apart and start replacing parts. That sounds ocd but I can sympthize.

* This post was edited 04/25/16 10:55pm by kyle86 *

Posted By: John&Joey on 04/26/16 07:40am

Little lost on the OCD thing, so my statement might be off. When he said wet bolts I'm guessing he is referring to the leaf spring bolts.

Bought a used Class A F53 with leaf springs on the front. That thing really did ride like a bread truck. Would shake the filings right out of your teeth. Once I got the shackles freed up, it was a night and day improvement on the ride. RV's don't get used daily so they're prime for corrosion to set in.

Posted By: yankee camper on 04/26/16 04:35pm

Lynnmor wrote:

Just installed made in USA Timken bearings. I know of others that did the same. Look at my link in a previous post.

X2 just got mine on Amazon but Sumitt Racing has them also - USA made!

Posted By: kyle86 on 05/05/16 09:42pm

Wow so this is the difference between a 5200 lb axle and a 3500 lb axle inner bearing LOL.

[image]

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