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Topic: New Andersen WD hitch

Posted By: JBarca on 01/13/12 07:35pm

A fellow camper bud showed me this. It's new and different. Anyone using one? Andersen WD hitches A U-tube video with the factory guy explaining it. You have to get past MR Truck doing his intro. Interesting 5th wheel hitch too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvM7mCnqmwo&feature=related It looks like this I'll hold my comments for a short while to not cloud your thoughts. Ideally we can find someone here using one to quiz them on it. John * This post was last edited 01/31/12 06:30pm by JBarca * John & Cindy 2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10 CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package 21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR Ford Tow Command 1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam 2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver 2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR (I wish we were camping!)

Posted By: BenK on 01/13/12 09:16pm

First blush is that the brake friction material in the ball/hitch head is going to be both a maintenance issue and just like friction anti-sway bars. Getting them wet, oil, wearing out the friction material, etc problems. The way they do the WD is placing a new force on the coupler and wonder if the coupler is designed for that kind of loading. Especially the pawl that holds the coupler to the ball, as that is where the forces gets localized Traditional cam'ed spring bars (round and trunnion) both hold back the amount of off angle the trailer can move and increases the amount of spring bar tension This has none of that and mainly works on the friction between the tappered ball mount to the complimentary cavity in the hitch head. As that 1/4" of friction material wears...does the ball shank then need to be tightened? What happens to the union of that tappered ball shank and cavity on a whoopee-do when the tongues goes negative weight ? Is the nut holding in the tappered ball shank have a spring to account for that situation? That kind of force for each 'compliant' bushing has it held onto the tongue with a clamping mechanism. Will it slip? How's about when it gets wet? Or oil gets on there? That plate at the hitch head end also rotates in tandem with the tongue...I'd think they would want it fixed to increase pressure on that compliant bushing to prevent the tongue from swaying Since the coupler is forced into the ball (that wear and whether the coupler is designed for that kind of load) will it bang when the trailer brakes are initiated to pull it the other way? What will that increased force do to the compliant bushing over time? Will then bang back onto the coupler pawl when the brakes are let go and throttle given? Just some first glance thoughts... -Ben Picture of my rig 1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner... 1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad... 1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner... Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking! Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)... Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's... 51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 01/13/12 09:20pm

Ben brought up the same things I was thinking about. My opinion is: I don't like the design at all. I don't see where it's any better than spring bars and I can see where it's worse in many ways. 01 International 4800 4x4 CrewCab DT466E Allison MD3060 69Bronco 86Samurai 85ATC250R 89CR500 98Ranger 96Tacoma 20' BigTex flatbed 8' truck camper, 14' Aristocrat TT 73 Kona 17' ski boat & Mercury 1150TB 92F350 CrewCab 4x4 351/C6 285 BFG AT 4.56 & LockRite rear

Posted By: LAdams on 01/14/12 09:56am

I'll take the other side here guys... Rather innovative I think and a novel design... Admittedly, it's just another friction control device but rather well though out... I suppose the brake material will wear some but that has yet to be determined how fast it will wear and how much replacement is... My question is: how does one arrive at the same w/d pressures by just tightening the nuts on the end of the neoprene cushions... I would assume that in the instruction there is a guide to tell you how many turns equals X amount of pressure... IMO, if the hitch has any disadvantages, it is the tightening and untightening of the chains for weight distribution... We're all always resistant to change, human nature being what it is, but I like the design of this hitch... If it works well, it jusy may become the defacto standard of those who tow with hitches like the dual cam amd Equal-i-zer... If it doesn't work well, it will fail and go by the wayside... It's a rather neat design and I look forward to the first actual usage report by one of our members... How about John, you gonna spring for one of these Les 2000 Ford F-250SD, XLT, 4X4 Off Road, SuperCab w/ 6.8L (415 C.I.) V-10/3:73LS/4R100 Banks Power Pack w/Trans Command & OttoMind Sold Trailer - not RV'ing at this point in time HUNTER THERMOSTAT INSTALL HOME MADE WHEEL CHOCKS

Posted By: BenK on 01/14/12 10:18am

Don't get me wrong, as am a designer by training and in the heart. Love contraptions of any kind...but...also by training look at how things fail in order to make my designs 'good' to 'better'. Also lots of forensics from my own designs and work fixing others design. Taught that Mr Murphy lives everywhere and to design for the idiot and gorilla...as if it can go wrong, it will... I've had some PE/ME's get into a Rube Goldberg situation trying to design something marketing told them to. Easy to get myopic and lose sight of the big picture and get caught up in a rat hole. Les, the spring/bushings pull back on the plate below the hitch head ball and that then pushes the tongue forward against the ball. The contact point is inside the coupler at the pawl is my guess. Unless they have a special coupler. This is the leverage arm, I'd guess about 4 inches vs the Trunnion/Round bars lever arm of 18"-20" times 2. That is a whole lot of PSI on that coupler pawl. {edit}...okay, take this one back...the Trunnion/Round Bars do end up in an area of about 4", so this is the same or no difference. That is where I see a weakness, as am wondering if the coupler pawl is designed for that kind of service. Thinks like the surface area factored by the co-efficient of friction factored by the moments (lever arm) telling to me that the amount of clamping force must be huge. Plus the 'normal' recommended torque for any large ball (dia in the 2 5/16 range requires 500 ft/lbs of torque. Oh on that, the moment on that friction material is the distance from the ball center line to the trailer wheels Then will the nut holding that ball shank back off with that kind of 'allowed' rotation? As they allow the ball to turn along with the coupler (assumption) and does the nut too? Then how do they manage the bearing and the loads on that ball against whatever boss it rides on? Does it then need grease? If so, then how do they manage from getting grease on/in the friction material mating surface? It is right there Allowing the ball to rotate along with the coupler and also having to maintain something in the 500 ft/lb range requires a nifty bearing setup. To allow the ball shank/nut to freely rotate and NOT back off the nut, but to also maintain enough PSI on the friction material to do it's job against that very, very long lever arm Since friction material, assume it is the typical stuff I'm familiar with. I'd wonder how well it does with the 'normal' banging all balls see during towing. If it compresses does it go plastic or remains elastic? Will then wobble out ?

Posted By: Mkos1980 on 01/14/12 12:35pm

Heres a nice post from another site which explains some more. Anderson Hitch post 2016 Palomino Puma 30RKSS 1990 Chaparral 2150SX 350 MAG 2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 6.0 1989 Pontiac Formula 350 "LSX" 6.0 LS2 2008 Harley Dyna Low Rider

Posted By: JBarca on 01/14/12 03:48pm

Hi Ben, Maybe I misunderstood your reply. You said the ball coupler pawl is where all the ball force is going to from WD, do you mean the front of the ball coupler or the latch on the back side of the ball is the pawl? And you seem to keep referring to 500 ft. lb. of torque into the nut on the tow ball. Did I understand that right? There is no nut on the tow ball. There is a 4.5 degree taper on the ball shank that sits in a female lined friction material socket that is part of the hitch shank. If you take the pin out of the chain plate on the bottom if the setup is unhitched, the entire tow ball will come right up and out of the shank socket. I'm prepping my response, be back soon. Thanks John

Posted By: reno82 on 01/14/12 04:33pm

(disclaimer, I'm not an engineer) I like the idea but there are a few areas I'm concerned about. On the video it is said there is 2000# on each chain. Are the clevis and chains shown strong enough for that much constant pressure, they seem small to me? Also, how do you know how far to tighten each chain. It's easy with the bars, once set up you always have the same number of links under load. Finally how does it work with heavier TW? I run around 1500#, with bars you get the size bar to match your TW, do these come in different sizes?

Posted By: SoCalDesertRider on 01/14/12 05:12pm

I still agree with Ben on this.

Posted By: BenK on 01/14/12 05:56pm

John !?!... you've got me !!!! Cleaning out the garage and coming in to check this site, so apologize for the quickie comments... Well, lots of assumptions on my part. Assumed the ball is held in there by a traditional nut, but will have to see how they capture it Thought a traditional coupler with a pawl, but in looking at the image...there is no latch. So how in the world did they get the ball past the interference fit?...but that is another assumption...that the coupler has an interference fit for the ball like these images: so if traditional, then that pawl will take the forces...but...since not traditional how do they keep the ball from coming off? By interference, meaning that the coupler has a lower hemisphere smaller in dia than the ball dia. The pawl moves out of the way to allow the ball to move backwards and then drop out.

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